Change the Electoral College or the Union?

[PizzaSnake]

Needs to be a correction to Senate representation so it is proportional to numbers of residents. As it is, states with small populations have grossly disproportionate representation. Merge N and S Dakota, and maybe Montana and Wyoming, and Utah and Idaho.

And for electors, either abandon the parallel with number of Representatives, or lift the number of Reps and electors that was “frozen” in the early 20th century.

Hell, abandon the bi-cameral system and have a single legislative body and a Prime Minister. System doesn’t work and limits representation to two ineffective parties.

[kramerica.inc]

When Adding New States Helped the Republicans
Putting new stars on the U.S. flag has always been political. But D.C. statehood is a modest partisan ploy compared with the mass admission of underpopulated western territories—which boosts the GOP even 130 years later.

SEPTEMBER 19, 2019
Heather Cox Richardson
Professor of history at Boston College

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ns/598243/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... es/606148/

"The problem with minority rule."

The minority needs a voice in everything these days. Except governance.

Definitely not governance.

[CU88]

I am pretty sure a lot of American's would like to see the r's go their own way...

Marjorie Taylor Greene Flag of United States @mtgreenee
God bless them!

Secession.

The disconnected swamp would blow a gasket if they knew how many people are actually talking about this bc of how fast Biden is blowing it.

The Dems have totally lost control of everything and everyone knows it.

#AmericaFirst is the only way.

[PizzaSnake]

I am pretty sure a lot of American's would like to see the r's go their own way...

Marjorie Taylor Greene Flag of United States @mtgreenee
God bless them!

Secession.

The disconnected swamp would blow a gasket if they knew how many people are actually talking about this bc of how fast Biden is blowing it.

The Dems have totally lost control of everything and everyone knows it.

#AmericaFirst is the only way.

Putin did what the Soviet Union couldn’t and he didn't have to fire a shot.

Impressive, really.

[MDlaxfan76]

Needs to be a correction to Senate representation so it is proportional to numbers of residents. As it is, states with small populations have grossly disproportionate representation. Merge N and S Dakota, and maybe Montana and Wyoming, and Utah and Idaho.

And for electors, either abandon the parallel with number of Representatives, or lift the number of Reps and electors that was “frozen” in the early 20th century.

Hell, abandon the bi-cameral system and have a single legislative body and a Prime Minister. System doesn’t work and limits representation to two ineffective parties.

well, none of that is gonna happen, so really the question is what's practical and consistent with precedent.

Adding states doesn't require 60% Senate vote, historically.
Precedent and there's a clear Constitutional process.

We've never combined states (far as I know!) so that seems a bridge too far. Hard to imagine that any states would vote to do it to themselves and I don't think we have a process for forcing states to combine otherwise.

However, the filibuster is not Constitutionally required, and precedent is mixed, so reform of the existing 'rules' is entirely possible...just need to persuade all 50 Senators that the changes are reasonable and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Making Senators actually need to hold the floor would be consistent with precedent.

Getting rid of the gerrymandering unfortunately looks like it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment, so that appears to be a hard one to get done, but not impossible. Maybe the make up of SCOTUS will change enough that they'll find their way to a better answer on that one, but without that, it's gonna need an Amendment.

so, I think we're going to be living with the grossness of gerrymandering for awhile.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene is about as close to a traitor as anyone in recent history.

[njbill]

You are forgetting T****. But then he isn’t close to being a traitor. He is a traitor. He has done more to tear this country apart than any other single American in history.

[kramerica.inc]

Sweet narrative, bro.
"Keep repeating it and people will believe it!"
Of course, the other side had no role in the tenor of the nation.

Gonna take at least 7 more years to overcome all the damage those ineffectual executive orders did to the nation!

[njbill]

The “other side” didn’t try to violently overthrow the government.

[cradleandshoot]

The “other side” didn’t try to violently overthrow the government.

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government. One thing learned from that day, no crazy mob of any political persuasion will ever do it again. This is just a different version of the lesson learned on 9/11. Until the very worst event happens security actual hardcore and serious security measures are overlooked or the threat not taken seriously.

[old salt]

The “other side” didn’t try to violently overthrow the government.

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government. One thing learned from that day, no crazy mob of any political persuasion will ever do it again. This is just a different version of the lesson learned on 9/11. Until the very worst event happens security actual hardcore and serious security measures are overlooked or the threat not taken seriously.

Yep. Basic competent security would have prevented the mob from entering the Capitol building & this would have been just another "peaceful protest" that turned into a violent mob. In this case the Capitol was looted instead of a Dollar Store or Nike store. Less good stuff to steal.

[njbill]

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government.

Never intended to overthrow the government? Huh? They wanted to kill Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi and probably some others. They wanted to prevent Congress from certifying the election.

That the coup attempt was led by a bunch of guys with IQs of 50 doesn’t negate the fact that they were trying to overthrow the government.

[PizzaSnake]

Needs to be a correction to Senate representation so it is proportional to numbers of residents. As it is, states with small populations have grossly disproportionate representation. Merge N and S Dakota, and maybe Montana and Wyoming, and Utah and Idaho.

And for electors, either abandon the parallel with number of Representatives, or lift the number of Reps and electors that was “frozen” in the early 20th century.

Hell, abandon the bi-cameral system and have a single legislative body and a Prime Minister. System doesn’t work and limits representation to two ineffective parties.

well, none of that is gonna happen, so really the question is what's practical and consistent with precedent.

Adding states doesn't require 60% Senate vote, historically.
Precedent and there's a clear Constitutional process.

We've never combined states (far as I know!) so that seems a bridge too far. Hard to imagine that any states would vote to do it to themselves and I don't think we have a process for forcing states to combine otherwise.

However, the filibuster is not Constitutionally required, and precedent is mixed, so reform of the existing 'rules' is entirely possible...just need to persuade all 50 Senators that the changes are reasonable and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Making Senators actually need to hold the floor would be consistent with precedent.

Getting rid of the gerrymandering unfortunately looks like it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment, so that appears to be a hard one to get done, but not impossible. Maybe the make up of SCOTUS will change enough that they'll find their way to a better answer on that one, but without that, it's gonna need an Amendment.

so, I think we're going to be living with the grossness of gerrymandering for awhile.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene is about as close to a traitor as anyone in recent history.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

— Emerson

[old salt]

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government.

Never intended to overthrow the government? Huh? They wanted to kill Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi and probably some others. They wanted to prevent Congress from certifying the election.

That the coup attempt was led by a bunch of guys with IQs of 50 doesn’t negate the fact that they were trying to overthrow the government.

How did they plan to overcome the armed Secret Service agents & security details protecting Pence & Pelosi ?

[njbill]

Didn't say I thought they had a chance of success. Hence my 50 IQ comment.

[MDlaxfan76]

You are forgetting T****. But then he isn’t close to being a traitor. He is a traitor. He has done more to tear this country apart than any other single American in history.

Agreed.
And he's not finished.

[MDlaxfan76]

Needs to be a correction to Senate representation so it is proportional to numbers of residents. As it is, states with small populations have grossly disproportionate representation. Merge N and S Dakota, and maybe Montana and Wyoming, and Utah and Idaho.

And for electors, either abandon the parallel with number of Representatives, or lift the number of Reps and electors that was “frozen” in the early 20th century.

Hell, abandon the bi-cameral system and have a single legislative body and a Prime Minister. System doesn’t work and limits representation to two ineffective parties.

well, none of that is gonna happen, so really the question is what's practical and consistent with precedent.

Adding states doesn't require 60% Senate vote, historically.
Precedent and there's a clear Constitutional process.

We've never combined states (far as I know!) so that seems a bridge too far. Hard to imagine that any states would vote to do it to themselves and I don't think we have a process for forcing states to combine otherwise.

However, the filibuster is not Constitutionally required, and precedent is mixed, so reform of the existing 'rules' is entirely possible...just need to persuade all 50 Senators that the changes are reasonable and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Making Senators actually need to hold the floor would be consistent with precedent.

Getting rid of the gerrymandering unfortunately looks like it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment, so that appears to be a hard one to get done, but not impossible. Maybe the make up of SCOTUS will change enough that they'll find their way to a better answer on that one, but without that, it's gonna need an Amendment.

so, I think we're going to be living with the grossness of gerrymandering for awhile.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene is about as close to a traitor as anyone in recent history.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

— Emerson

ahhh, but is all this simply a "foolish consistency"?

In constructing a form of government that does not rely on the whims of the day nor the absolutes of the divine, there is the need for that construct and form to be reliable, yet flexible, in the face of the pressures of the day. Toss the reliability and you're back to 'whims' or some form of authoritarianism. But that reliability also needs to be flexible...

[kramerica.inc]

The “other side” didn’t try to violently overthrow the government.

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government. One thing learned from that day, no crazy mob of any political persuasion will ever do it again. This is just a different version of the lesson learned on 9/11. Until the very worst event happens security actual hardcore and serious security measures are overlooked or the threat not taken seriously.

Yep. Basic competent security would have prevented the mob from entering the Capitol building & this would have been just another "peaceful protest" that turned into a violent mob. In this case the Capitol was looted instead of a Dollar Store or Nike store. Less good stuff to steal.

+1

I keep seeing the left mention the 5 people that died in connection with the day.
It's just a tinge ironic that the left, suddenly cares about people they have been wishing harm and throwing bottles of piss on for the past 18 months: 4 Q believers and a police officer.

[cradleandshoot]

Didn't say I thought they had a chance of success. Hence my 50 IQ comment.

Do you think they ever believed they had a chance at success? If your goal is to overthrow the US government you might want to have a game plan. They may be right wing nut jobs but they are not stupid. They exposed how incompetent the leadership is DC when it came to basic security 101 at our nation's capital building. The story should not be about the protesters, it should be how inept our government was at being able to secure the US Capital building. There should have been an announcement over the PA system outside the capital building when the mob tried to gain entrance.
THE USE OF LETHAL FORCE HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED. All people on capital grounds are ordered to stand down and leave the Capital grounds immediately.

[cradleandshoot]

You seriously consider that cluster fudge at the capital an attempt to overthrow the government? It was an abomination to every decent law abiding American but it sure as hell was never intended to overthrow the government.

Never intended to overthrow the government? Huh? They wanted to kill Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi and probably some others. They wanted to prevent Congress from certifying the election.

That the coup attempt was led by a bunch of guys with IQs of 50 doesn’t negate the fact that they were trying to overthrow the government.

I'm guessing a large number of posters on this forum would not have been all that upset if the mob had whacked Pence.

[njbill]

The story should not be about the protesters, it should be how inept our government was at being able to secure the US Capital building.

Huh? Americans violently storm the US Capitol Building for the first time in history, and the story should be about how many police were there?

For someone who claims he isn't a T**** supporter, you sure walk, talk, and quack like one.