You have more confidence in Manafort, Stone and Don jr. than I do!youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:05 am I have to give it to you TLD, you are one patient man, you love waiting for everything. AS my grandfather would say "the longer you wait, the better it is". Hope you do not get what you wait for however, because it would be a bad day for America.
Trump's Russian Collusion
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Re: The Mueller Investigation
“I wish you would!”
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Re: The Mueller Investigation
OAndrew McCabe: I told congressional leaders that the FBI was investigating President Trump – and they didn't object
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said Tuesday that no congressional leaders voiced objections when he told them in May 2017 that the bureau had opened a counterintelligence investigation into President Donald Trump.
Will wait to see who tweets McCabe is lying about this....n the Senate side, the group of lawmakers at the time were Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., and ranking member Mark Warner, D-Va.
The House members were then-Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., as well as former House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and then-ranking member Adam Schiff, D-Calif.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
If McCabe is proven correct on this count, the whole "Deep State" crap totally unravels, and there's a whole mess of posters here who owe our investigative folks in the Executive and Judicial Branch a big fat apology.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
The Congressional leaders (mostly) kept their mouths shut & didn't leak to the media, ...unlike Comey, McCabe & the Deep State leakers.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:40 am If McCabe is proven correct on this count, the whole "Deep State" crap totally unravels, and there's a whole mess of posters here who owe our investigative folks in the Executive and Judicial Branch a big fat apology.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
The investigation was classified & intended to remain so.
It was counter intel investigation of Russian interference.
If a counter intel investigation targets a US citizen, it must become a criminal investigation.
Did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 that Trump became the target of a criminal investigation ?
That's a critical distinction.
McCabe's in a jam for misleading the IG & the FBI OPR about his leaking.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
About the Hillary Investigation. Not Trump and his Russians.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: The Mueller Investigation
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:57 amThe Congressional leaders (mostly) kept their mouths shut & didn't leak to the media, ...unlike Comey, McCabe & the Deep State leakers.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:40 am If McCabe is proven correct on this count, the whole "Deep State" crap totally unravels, and there's a whole mess of posters here who owe our investigative folks in the Executive and Judicial Branch a big fat apology.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
The investigation was classified & intended to remain so.
It was counter intel investigation of Russian interference.
If a counter intel investigation targets a US citizen, it must become a criminal investigation.
Did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 that Trump became the target of a criminal investigation ?
That's a critical distinction.
McCabe's in a jam for misleading the IG & the FBI OPR about his leaking.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/andrew- ... bout-trump
Because the FBI did not have solid evidence of a crime, they did it under counterintelligence authority rather than criminal authority – calculating that the cover of probing Russia’s interference in the 2016 election would enable them to keep investigating while they tried to tighten up the obstruction case or find some other criminal offense.
Ostensibly, the surveillance application targeted Carter Page. But Page was just a side issue. The dossier was principally about Trump – not Page, not Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, or other Trump associates referred to by Steele. The dossier’s main allegation was that Trump was in an espionage conspiracy with Russia to swing the election to Trump, after which Trump would do Putin’s bidding from the White House. The FBI and the Obama Justice Department could not verify the dossier, but they undeniably believed it.
If you believe the dossier, then of course Trump is the main focus of the probe.
The FBI and DOJ knew this would be controversial – the incumbent administration spying on the opposition campaign in the absence of corroborated evidence of a crime. So, they designed the investigation in a way that allowed them to focus on Trump without saying they were doing so. Before Trump was elected, they papered the files to indicate that they were focusing on the Trump campaign or people connected to it, like Page and Papadopoulos. This way, they could try to collect evidence about Trump without formally documenting that Trump was the target.
After Trump was elected, the FBI realized that Trump was soon going to have access to government intelligence files. If they honestly told the president-elect that they had been investigating his campaign in hope of making a case on him, they had to be concerned that he would shut the investigation down and clean house at the FBI and DOJ. So, they misleadingly told him the investigation was about Russia and a few stray people in his campaign, but they assured him he personally was not under investigation.
This was not true. The investigation was always hoping to find something on Trump. That is why, for example, when director Comey briefed then-President-elect Trump about the Steele dossier, he told Trump only about the salacious allegation involving prostitutes in a Moscow hotel; he did not tell the president-elect either that the main thrust of the dossier was Trump’s purported espionage conspiracy with the Kremlin, nor that the FBI had gone to the FISC to get surveillance warrants based on the dossier. The FBI was telling the president-elect that the allegations were salacious and unverified, yet at that very moment they were presenting them to a federal court as information the judges could rely on to authorize spying.
Later, though Comey repeatedly told President Trump he was not a suspect, he gave House testimony patently geared to lead the public and the media to believe Trump was a suspect – which is exactly how the media reported it. In so doing, the FBI (and the Obama holdovers in the Justice Department who authorized Comey’s testimony) violated DOJ rules about publicly confirming the existence of an investigation, and publicly identifying a subject of an investigation: the Trump campaign, which Comey publicly announced was suspected of “coordinating” in the Kremlin’s widely reported cyberespionage interference in the 2016 campaign.
Comey’s firing on May 9, 2017, was not the start of an investigation of Trump. It was the point when the FBI and Justice Department rashly determined that they finally had a crime to pin on Trump — obstruction. In their haste and overconfidence, they rationalized that (a) Comey’s firing must have been intended to impede the Russia investigation, and that they could couple this with; (b) the claim that Trump may have impeded the Flynn investigation – based on a memo Comey leaked to the New York Times a few days after his firing.
Legally, none of this was obstruction. Yet, the FBI and Justice Department settled on this novel and flawed legal theory...
But all of these steps were just a matter of finally being overt about something that had been true for over a year: The FBI was conducting a probe to try to make a criminal case on Trump. Because they did not have solid evidence of a crime, they did it under counterintelligence authority rather than criminal authority – calculating that the cover of probing Russia’s interference in the 2016 election would enable them to keep investigating while they tried to tighten up the obstruction case or find some other criminal offense.
Make no mistake, though: The investigation was always about Donald Trump, from Day One.
Last edited by old salt on Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... grand-jury
Mueller’s scorecard for the front nine. It’s not like these clowns were framed. Gates is the key guy. He was everywhere from the Havana Cigar Bar with Kilimnik to the Inaugural. Tom Barrack’s guy. The Saudi Suckup. The guy who insisted Manafort got the campaign job. A volunteer! What a miracle!
Mueller’s scorecard for the front nine. It’s not like these clowns were framed. Gates is the key guy. He was everywhere from the Havana Cigar Bar with Kilimnik to the Inaugural. Tom Barrack’s guy. The Saudi Suckup. The guy who insisted Manafort got the campaign job. A volunteer! What a miracle!
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: The Mueller Investigation
What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?foreverlax wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 amOAndrew McCabe: I told congressional leaders that the FBI was investigating President Trump – and they didn't object
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said Tuesday that no congressional leaders voiced objections when he told them in May 2017 that the bureau had opened a counterintelligence investigation into President Donald Trump.Will wait to see who tweets McCabe is lying about this....n the Senate side, the group of lawmakers at the time were Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., and ranking member Mark Warner, D-Va.
The House members were then-Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., as well as former House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and then-ranking member Adam Schiff, D-Calif.
What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?
Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?
Re: The Mueller Investigation
I'm not talking about while the investigation was happening. I'm talking about NOW.old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:57 amThe Congressional leaders (mostly) kept their mouths shut & didn't leak to the media, ...unlike Comey, McCabe & the Deep State leakers.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:40 am If McCabe is proven correct on this count, the whole "Deep State" crap totally unravels, and there's a whole mess of posters here who owe our investigative folks in the Executive and Judicial Branch a big fat apology.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
The investigation was classified & intended to remain so.
Why hasn't Congress come out to back the FBI agents for doing their job, and telling both parties what they were doing?
It totally destroys the idea that the the FBI was out to get Trump. It shows a bunch of people doing the jobs we paid them to do, rather than a bunch of Trump hating lefties breaking laws, and going rogue.
And yes----when did the FBI have this conversation with the bipartisan group?
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Our @oversightdems report reveals that White House advisors including Michael Flynn & Jared Kushner were & possibly still are working to rush highly sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, and some stood to personally make money off new power plants.
We will investigate. Rep Rouda.
Hey, guess who is in on this project? Tom Barrack.
Now imagine Mohammed Bonesaw with nukes. Thanks, Trump!
We will investigate. Rep Rouda.
Hey, guess who is in on this project? Tom Barrack.
Now imagine Mohammed Bonesaw with nukes. Thanks, Trump!
Last edited by Trinity on Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
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Re: The Mueller Investigation
Watch the NBC interview. He told them a counter-intel investigation had been opened. Obviously it was after Comey was fired, or it would have been Comey telling them. Are you rearranging deck chairs again?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pm What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?
What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?
Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Nunes did not belong in that room.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: The Mueller Investigation
The FBI didn't. McCabe did.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:03 pmI'm not talking about while the investigation was happening. I'm talking about NOW.old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:57 amThe Congressional leaders (mostly) kept their mouths shut & didn't leak to the media, ...unlike Comey, McCabe & the Deep State leakers.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:40 am If McCabe is proven correct on this count, the whole "Deep State" crap totally unravels, and there's a whole mess of posters here who owe our investigative folks in the Executive and Judicial Branch a big fat apology.
I also want to know why these Congressional leaders didn't back up the FBI? For two years FoxNation have been bashing this crew as if they "went rogue". If it turns out that nope, they told a bipartisan group that they were investigating Trump and his crew....What the heck? Why didn't they back them up?
This whole thing is such a **itshow.
The investigation was classified & intended to remain so.
Why hasn't Congress come out to back the FBI agents for doing their job, and telling both parties what they were doing?
It totally destroys the idea that the the FBI was out to get Trump. It shows a bunch of people doing the jobs we paid them to do, rather than a bunch of Trump hating lefties breaking laws, and going rogue.
And yes----when did the FBI have this conversation with the bipartisan group?
You're going strictly with McCabe's version of events, from his own (CYA) perspective.
You have no idea what Wray's been doing since he took over (& fired McCabe).
...& Rosenstein's still on the job.
You think they haven't been briefing Congress.
They just haven't been leaking like McCabe & Comey did.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Read the article by McCarthy I linked. If Trump was named as a target, it had to be a criminal investigation, which McCabe opened (for obstruction) when Comey was fired.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:11 pmWatch the NBC interview. He told them a counter-intel investigation had been opened. Obviously it was after Comey was fired, or it would have been Comey telling them. Are you rearranging deck chairs again?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pm What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?
What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?
Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Nunes is screwed, working for Putin the last few years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/p ... tions.html
Trump’s all Obstruction, 24-7.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/p ... tions.html
Trump’s all Obstruction, 24-7.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Re: The Mueller Investigation
You lost me. You think McCabe is going to go on 60 Minutes, and tell the world that he met with both sides of the aisle about opening an investigation----and he's lying? Seriously?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:14 pm The FBI didn't. McCabe did.
You're going strictly with McCabe's version of events, from his own (CYA) perspective.
You have no idea what Wray's been doing since he took over (& fired McCabe).
...& Rosenstein's still on the job.
You think they haven't been briefing Congress.
They just haven't been leaking like McCabe & Comey did.
Great. So where are the denials that this happened? There aren't any.
I don't care what Wray is doing. You're missing my entire point, and I suspect intentionally.
If Congress was told that they were investigating Russia and Trump, the FoxNation's---and yours, if I recall----narrative that the FBI was breaking laws, acting recklessly, and going rogue in their pursuit of Trump is all nonsense.
Now we learn that nope, they told key bipartisans what they were doing. That's a big, big change in the narrative.
And think how stupid it is, from an investigative standpoint---telling a bunch of Republican politicians that you're investigating Russia and possible involvement with the leader of their party. And yet they did it anyway? This changes everything for me. I have to rethink all the criticism leveled against folks that were just doing their doggone jobs.
Last edited by a fan on Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
You’d think one of the GOP gangsters would have called off the dogs.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
- MDlaxfan76
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Re: The Mueller Investigation
Good lord, Salty, you sure are a Trumpist, through and through.
It's flat out ridiculous the stuff you spout.
That said, seems to me we should all take a deep breath on this particular revelation about the Gang of 8 knowing that the counter-intel investigation had been opened. We don't actually have confirmation that's accurate, just yet.
Speculate away, but let's let the facts play out before claiming one way or the other on this one.
Here's what I think we actually do know (chuck the dossier BS):
1) Trump and his crew were actually trying to do a hugely lucrative deal in Moscow deep into the campaign and were lying about it, then and ever since.
2) Trump's son, son-in-law, and Campaign Chairman took a meeting with Russians knowing it was about receiving dirt on Clinton, and then lied about it repeatedly. Trump dictated part of that lying.
3) Trump told various people, including the Russian ambassador, publicly on TV, and perhaps directly to Rosenstein, that he was firing Comey to stop the investigation into the Russian attempts to influence the election.
4) Helsinki.
There's a lot more that we know, but if that's not alone sufficient to be darn concerned about whether DJT is putting his own interests ahead of those of the USA, I don't know what kind of drugs you're shooting or snorting, but they have to be pretty darn hallucinatory.
It's flat out ridiculous the stuff you spout.
That said, seems to me we should all take a deep breath on this particular revelation about the Gang of 8 knowing that the counter-intel investigation had been opened. We don't actually have confirmation that's accurate, just yet.
Speculate away, but let's let the facts play out before claiming one way or the other on this one.
Here's what I think we actually do know (chuck the dossier BS):
1) Trump and his crew were actually trying to do a hugely lucrative deal in Moscow deep into the campaign and were lying about it, then and ever since.
2) Trump's son, son-in-law, and Campaign Chairman took a meeting with Russians knowing it was about receiving dirt on Clinton, and then lied about it repeatedly. Trump dictated part of that lying.
3) Trump told various people, including the Russian ambassador, publicly on TV, and perhaps directly to Rosenstein, that he was firing Comey to stop the investigation into the Russian attempts to influence the election.
4) Helsinki.
There's a lot more that we know, but if that's not alone sufficient to be darn concerned about whether DJT is putting his own interests ahead of those of the USA, I don't know what kind of drugs you're shooting or snorting, but they have to be pretty darn hallucinatory.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation
All great questions and deserve answers. I will continue to do what I have been doing....waiting.old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pmWhat precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ? great question, no clueforeverlax wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 amOAndrew McCabe: I told congressional leaders that the FBI was investigating President Trump – and they didn't object
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said Tuesday that no congressional leaders voiced objections when he told them in May 2017 that the bureau had opened a counterintelligence investigation into President Donald Trump.Will wait to see who tweets McCabe is lying about this....n the Senate side, the group of lawmakers at the time were Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., and ranking member Mark Warner, D-Va.
The House members were then-Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., as well as former House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and then-ranking member Adam Schiff, D-Calif.
What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ? great question, no clue
Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?great question, no clue