All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[MDlaxfan76]

What evidence do you have that it was developed and released?....you imply that being developed and released is certain....Not what Xi told your guy.

Too much of a coincidence that it broke out in Wuhan. Too far from the bat caves.

Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?

The bats did it in their cave lab.

That’s what I figured. Hopefully your acolytes will “stroke” your ego.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

My dog is losing her hearing....you have any advice?

Worth the read.

Ran Paul sticking it to Fauci is better.

yes, quite the scum sucker is Rand.

[youthathletics]

[Typical Lax Dad]

What evidence do you have that it was developed and released?....you imply that being developed and released is certain....Not what Xi told your guy.

Too much of a coincidence that it broke out in Wuhan. Too far from the bat caves.

Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?

The bats did it in their cave lab.

That’s what I figured. Hopefully your acolytes will “stroke” your ego.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

My dog is losing her hearing....you have any advice?

Worth the read.

Ran Paul sticking it to Fauci is better.

yes, quite the scum sucker is Rand.

That Nature article was informative but hey we need to determine with greater certainty that Covid-19 was developed and released.

[old salt]

Hey nit picking, wordsmith trolls :

we need to determine, with greater certainty, implies (to any rational reader) a lack of certainty.

The existing conventional wisdom "certainty" narrative is bat to other mammal to human, via the Wuhan wet market.

You guys will grasp at anything to deflect or distract from the obvious & ignore the coincidence of the outbreak in Wuhan, of all places.

[Brooklyn]

https://media.timesfreepress.com/img/ph ... 177270.jpg



Vaxxed folks are true heroes.

[old salt]

What evidence do you have that it was developed and released?....you imply that being developed and released is certain....Not what Xi told your guy.

Too much of a coincidence that it broke out in Wuhan. Too far from the bat caves.

Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?

The bats did it in their cave lab.

That’s what I figured. Hopefully your acolytes will “stroke” your ego.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

My dog is losing her hearing....you have any advice?

Worth the read.

Ran Paul sticking it to Fauci is better.

yes, quite the scum sucker is Rand.

That Nature article was informative but hey we need to determine with greater certainty that Covid-19 was developed and released.

We need to determine, with greater certainty, how & where it was developed & released.
Or are you certain that you know ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hey nit picking, wordsmith trolls :

we need to determine, with greater certainty, implies (to any rational reader) a lack of certainty.

The existing conventional wisdom "certainty" narrative is bat to other mammal to human, via the Wuhan wet market.

You guys will grasp at anything to deflect or distract from the obvious & ignore the coincidence of the outbreak in Wuhan, of all places.

No....greater certainty means that there is some level of certainty that has been determined. You want more of it. You received one of the finest educations on the planet.... You know better.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What evidence do you have that it was developed and released?....you imply that being developed and released is certain....Not what Xi told your guy.

Too much of a coincidence that it broke out in Wuhan. Too far from the bat caves.

Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?

The bats did it in their cave lab.

That’s what I figured. Hopefully your acolytes will “stroke” your ego.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

My dog is losing her hearing....you have any advice?

Worth the read.

Ran Paul sticking it to Fauci is better.

yes, quite the scum sucker is Rand.

That Nature article was informative but hey we need to determine with greater certainty that Covid-19 was developed and released.

We need to determine, with greater certainty, how & where it was developed & released.
Or are you certain that you know ?

I am certain that I don’t know.

[youthathletics]

Fauci the actor... from his lips to our ear. Got caught with his hands in the cookie jar?

https://twitter.com/YALiberty/status/13 ... 02758?s=20

[MDlaxfan76]

Hey nit picking, wordsmith trolls :

we need to determine, with greater certainty, implies (to any rational reader) a lack of certainty.

The existing conventional wisdom "certainty" narrative is bat to other mammal to human, via the Wuhan wet market.

You guys will grasp at anything to deflect or distract from the obvious & ignore the coincidence of the outbreak in Wuhan, of all places.

No....greater certainty means that there is some level of certainty that has been determined. You want more of it. You received one of the finest educations on the planet.... You know better.

come on, TLD, "coincidence" = evidence = certainty = bio-weapon research release = damn Chinese commies.

Salty, if you didn't mean what you wrote, just say so. No one is arguing against the desirability of knowing the actual answer, if that's possible, it's just that coincidence is not equivalent to any level of certainty. And the "if that's possible" is very likely to disappoint.

You are burdened in this argument, whether you like it or not, with the speculative conspiracy theories that have been promulgated by the far right, Trumpists, and other whack jobs. So as soon as you imply that any certainty has been achieved, you're immediately aligned, argmentatively, with those folks. And given that you've otherwise aligned with these folks on some other matters, it certainly looks intentional.

Which isn't to say that there aren't legitimate questions. Which are indeed being asked by lots of scientists with the actual expertise to ask the right questions and to evaluate the data and assess the credibility of the answers.

What most of them have said so far is that zoonotic transmission, which happens a lot and through history, is extremely difficult to prove with certainty. Pretty much never "proven", just preponderance of evidence. And they have said that unless there is direct evidence that the specific coronavirus existed in the lab, having been engineered as such, prior to the outbreak, then we have no basis for that presumption over zoonotic. And they have said that at least until the US withdrew its personnel at the lab the specific coronavirus line that could have been engineered was not among those being studied. And their Chinese counterparts say they didn't ever work with those lines. Others, yes, not that one or anything close.

Of course, that does not mean that is impossible that the Chinese did so. But unlikely.
Which is going to remain the case unless direct evidence comes forward.

Meanwhile, zoonotic transmission happens quite a bit. Viruses evolve, animal to animal and with wide scale transmission they further evolve. Sometimes with very dangerous consequences.

[MDlaxfan76]

Fauci the actor... from his lips to our ear. Got caught with his hands in the cookie jar?

https://twitter.com/YALiberty/status/13 ... 02758?s=20

sheesh, do you think they had the necessary research in March that it was "extremely unlikely" to contract and transmit COVID once vaccinated? Or was that research evolving with time as more people were vaccinated? At that point, the best they were willing to say from the trials was that if you did get Covid after being vaccinated, you were far less likely to get seriously sick and die. Really important, but not the full answer on re-transmissability.

And we know that you can get COVID once vaccinated (eg 9 Yankees), but what they didn't know for sure was whether you were likely to further transmit to other, unvaccinated people who could be far more vulnerable.

And they also didn't know whether the vaccines would work as well on emerging variants.

And what we also definitely knew then, and now, is that whatever risk of contraction goes up with the number of unvaccinated people inside for a duration of time...so, as more people can be assumed to have been vaccinated, risk of transmission goes down...thus the new guidelines.

Heck of a lot less certainty back then than now, even though they had strong hopes as to how the research would play out.

[Farfromgeneva]

Hello.

I’ve already explained how it happened before. And Disney was involved too. Here’s a re enactment.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3BLER7MQm4k

Dr. Oz said a small animal had sex with a Pangolin.....he actually claimed that last year.....Old Salt said it was from people eating bats. I see his conspiracy game is still strong.

But did you know that Mickey for down like that?

Mickey started Covid by partying at Wuhan Disney!

“Yeah it’s a f**king bat. It’s a mouse with wings!” “Hey Randy come get some of this!”

[Farfromgeneva]

We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

Shouldn’t you have quote OS when you wrote that?

He was referring to Gen Milley, in the WP quote.

Ooh you got me with those cool rolling eyes rather than reading through my comment like someone with critical reading experience but I guess that’s the point TLD was driving home with your confident statements including facts not in evidence that you presume like they are.

[Farfromgeneva]

The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?

The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.

Tell it Ft. Dietrich.
I don't agree re the research, but I'd note that neither of us is an expert in this field.

I attended a 1 month Army NBC Warfare Officer course at Ft McClennan. ...guess what the B stands for.

One of my jobs was to prepare our base for NBC defense, how to react to attacks, triage, treat & decontaninate.,

Well, I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn recently...but yeah, that doesn't make you an expert either.

I once worked at a Long John Silvers. I’m ready to open up a Michelin level Seafood joint now for sure.

[youthathletics]

"I didn't want to look like I was giving mixed signals" .....says Fauci. Does that not imply he already knew the answer? Fauci is embarrassing himself, again.

I suppose Fauci should have used the word "IF", that way the Fanlax post count leaders would accept his acting.

[Farfromgeneva]

We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

I'm still not sure what your point is. Mine is -- gain of function research on these covid strains is too dangerous to be done because of :
1) the risk of accidental release
2) potential for use as a bio weapon.

It's a perfectly reasonable opinion...trust me, I've understood your logic.

Not sure you're understood mine, though.

From 2015. Prophetic.

https://www.nature.com/news/engineered- ... %201.18787

Regarding politics -- the US imposed a 3 year moratorium on US g o f research in 2014 (Obama Admin). It was allowed to resume in 2017 (Trump Admin)

Same article states the research does have value and no one has demonstrated the research was “gain on use” which again is a intellectually bankrupt term and concept for any research. On top of it China is a sovereign country but you want to be big daddy and tell them what to do but wonder why everyone in the world wants to knock us off our perch? This whole line of thinking is narrow and militaristically focused.

[Farfromgeneva]

"I didn't want to look like I was giving mixed signals" .....says Fauci. Does that not imply he already knew the answer? Fauci is embarrassing himself, again.

I suppose Fauci should have used the word "IF", that way the Fanlax post count leaders would accept his acting.

Come on YA. You know No means Yes.

[Farfromgeneva]

Guy too proud to say... “I should have used the word if”

“we need to determine, with greater certainty, how it developed & was released, rather than dismiss the question for political reasons.”

“If” is a powerful little word. He didn’t really need to insert “with greater certainty”. He decided to add that. Take that out and his point is the same. Throwing chum for his acolytes isn’t an accident.

We get it and a few others do to. I’m sure it goes great in the rural neighborhood get together a he has.

[old salt]

Salty, if you didn't mean what you wrote, just say so. No one is arguing against the desirability of knowing the actual answer, if that's possible, it's just that coincidence is not equivalent to any level of certainty. And the "if that's possible" is very likely to disappoint.

Blah blah Trump blah blah.

I mean exactly what I said. We need to know with a greater degree of certainty the origin of the virus & how it jumped to humans.

All the verbal gymnastics & nit picking is just an attempt to blow smoke to deflect & divert from coming to grips with the question.

Who was patient zero & how & where did he/she contract it ?
Are you confident that it was not related to the lab in Wuhan ?
If so, don't you find it a remarkable coincidence that was the location of the outbreak ?
Instead of addressing that question, you attempt to discredit anyone who asks the obvious.

[old salt]

The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?

The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.

Tell it Ft. Dietrich.
I don't agree re the research, but I'd note that neither of us is an expert in this field.

I attended a 1 month Army NBC Warfare Officer course at Ft McClennan. ...guess what the B stands for.

One of my jobs was to prepare our base for NBC defense, how to react to attacks, triage, treat & decontaninate.,

Well, I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn recently...but yeah, that doesn't make you an expert either.

I once worked at a Long John Silvers. I’m ready to open up a Michelin level Seafood joint now for sure.

I do know that Covid 19 is more deadly than any bio weapon we were trained about.

Wash your hands before preparing food for your customers.