All Things Russia & Ukraine

[holmes435]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pr ... ORM=VDQVAP Always an oldie but a goodie. Maybe some of our FLP snowflakes here can catch us all up to speed about what it means to have more flexibility when negotiating with the rooskies. If we believe our FLP friends here it can only mean that in a yoga contest that BHO was more limber and flexible than Mr Putin... I vill transmit this information to Mr Putin. Mr Putin would like to see you in a blue dress vith some French perfume and ve can then talk about your flexibility.

Here we go again.

Answered a few dozen times over two different websites from my recollection. The more pressing question of today is what about Hilary's emails and server? It's not like anyone in the Trump administration would do anything like that... right?

[Trinity]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/worl ... unich.html

Europe hates us. Mission Accomplished.

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pr ... ORM=VDQVAP Always an oldie but a goodie. Maybe some of our FLP snowflakes here can catch us all up to speed about what it means to have more flexibility when negotiating with the rooskies. If we believe our FLP friends here it can only mean that in a yoga contest that BHO was more limber and flexible than Mr Putin... I vill transmit this information to Mr Putin. Mr Putin would like to see you in a blue dress vith some French perfume and ve can then talk about your flexibility.

Here we go again.

Answered a few dozen times over two different websites from my recollection. The more pressing question of today is what about Hilary's emails and server? It's not like anyone in the Trump administration would do anything like that... right?

Maybe it is time for some folks to answer certain questions under oath. If they can't recall, or as GWB would put it they misremember then it is time for obstruction of justice and perjury charges. That is how the game is being played nowadays. Point is it looks like Obama might have been doing the same thing Trump was doing... talking/colluding with the rooskies. This leads to the next few questions... does talking to the Russians equate to collusion? Is it wrong 100% of the time for any POTUS to want to talk to the Rooskies… the Chicoms… the Norks or any other government without it being labeled as collusion. Lets get crazy with the speculation. Was Obama asking the rooskies for a recipe for borscht? Was Obama trying to ask the rooskies if they would help him stick it to the Republicans?

This speculating thing is a lot of fun. When you live in that world anything your imagination can make up is possible. Maybe Trump was even behind the grassy knoll that day in Dallas? ... it is time to investigate that. Rumor has it young Trump was colluding with Castro to sneak in Cuban cigars and Kennedy caught wind of it. Of course Kennedy, in true Kennedy form only wanted a stash of cigars for himself... ohhh the humanity that crumb bum Trump. All the sarcasm aside our country seems to have the same formula for every administration that comes in to power... Speculate... Investigate and then Litigate. No matter what every administration had to have broken some law somewhere along the line. All of Washington DC is a brigade of Columbos with just one more question to ask.

[old salt]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/worl ... unich.html

Europe hates us. Mission Accomplished.

As usual, the NYT buries the lead :

Even more, the Europeans are angry that renewed American sanctions hurt European companies far more than any American ones.

Nathalie Tocci, a senior adviser to the European foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, said that for Europeans, the divide went “to the heart of how we view international relations and our national interest.”

“We’re small and understandably need partnership both inside Europe and outside, with NATO,” Ms. Tocci said.

But that is also a sign of European weakness and division. “We want to believe it will be fine again later because we have no alternative,” she said.

...The Europeans no longer believe that Washington will change, not when Mr. Trump sees traditional allies as economic rivals and leadership as diktat.

It means the dependency on the United States will continue, even as the Europeans look for ways not to depend on Washington as much, analysts say.

The Europeans “are beginning to do what we should,” Ms. Tocci said — spend more on the military, discuss some sort of European army in coordination with NATO, think more strategically as Europe in the face of Russia and China. “But no one believes it’s doable in the short run,” she added, and many believe it’s not easily doable at all.

The free riding EUroburghers are squawking because they are being forced to live up to their commitment to invest 2% of GDP in NATO's common defense & they want unrestricted trade with Russia & Iran, despite sanctions they expect other nations to honor.

No mention at the Munich Security Conf of our tanks in Poland, our Marines in Arctic Norway, our carrier strike group in the North Sea ? When's the last time a German warship entered the Black Sea or transited their South China Sea trade routes. Has a German aircraft ever dropped a munition in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or even NATO lead Libya ? Meanwhile -- US, Brit & French flight crews & strike aircraft are deploying aboard each other's carriers for the first time in NATO's history & Poland wants to build a Ft Trump to host a US Armored Div.

The EUros are coming to the realization that it's not "just Trump" -- he represents a significant % of US public opinion. Their free ride is coming to an end. If they invest more, deploy more, & participate more kinetically in NATO, the alliance will be better able to defend them if & when needed.

[a fan]

The free riding EUroburghers are squawking because they are being forced to live up to their commitment to invest 2% of GDP in NATO's common defense & they want unrestricted trade with Russia & Iran, despite sanctions they expect other nations to honor.

They're justifiably angry that in both cases, Trump is to blame for the sanctions. The one with Russia because of the firing of Comey coupled with non-stop absurd statements and lies, and the one with Iran because a guy with a little D by his name signed the Iran Deal. And as we all know, we simply can't have that.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/politics ... dex.htmlNo mention at the Munich Security Conf of our tanks in Poland, our Marines in Arctic Norway, our carrier strike group in the North Sea ? When's the last time a German warship entered the Black Sea or transited their South China Sea trade routes. Has a German aircraft ever dropped a munition in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or even NATO lead Libya ? Meanwhile -- US, Brit & French flight crews & strike aircraft are deploying aboard each other's carriers for the first time in NATO's history & Poland wants to build a Ft Trump to host a US Armored Div.[/quote]For now, I'm happy to give Trump credit for this change. But a steak dinner says that our Generals are doing this without Trump's knowledge, and we'll find that out when the book comes out.

The EUros are coming to the realization that it's not "just Trump" -- he represents a significant % of US public opinion. Their free ride is coming to an end. If they invest more, deploy more, & participate more kinetically in NATO, the alliance will be better able to defend them if & when needed.

We'll see. If the US can keep its powder dry and not invade a new country for a few years, this might just happen.

And if that happens, the Green Deal is a whole lot more likely to happen. Anyone notice the line item in the Green Deal where they cut spending by $340 Billion?

[runrussellrun]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/worl ... unich.html

Europe hates us. Mission Accomplished.

And yet, 99% of US citizens couldn't name ONE "leader" of an EU country, conversely, you're trying to tell us that Europes HATES the USA because of who the current President is?

[runrussellrun]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pr ... ORM=VDQVAP Always an oldie but a goodie. Maybe some of our FLP snowflakes here can catch us all up to speed about what it means to have more flexibility when negotiating with the rooskies. If we believe our FLP friends here it can only mean that in a yoga contest that BHO was more limber and flexible than Mr Putin... I vill transmit this information to Mr Putin. Mr Putin would like to see you in a blue dress vith some French perfume and ve can then talk about your flexibility.

Here we go again.

Answered a few dozen times over two different websites from my recollection. The more pressing question of today is what about Hilary's emails and server? It's not like anyone in the Trump administration would do anything like that... right?

This is go to point #3, when debating the pretend CONservative tRumper lovers, as to why he is a lousy President. (others are.....ah, who cares, he just is lousy....but IVANKA )

[runrussellrun]

The free riding EUroburghers are squawking because they are being forced to live up to their commitment to invest 2% of GDP in NATO's common defense & they want unrestricted trade with Russia & Iran, despite sanctions they expect other nations to honor.

They're justifiably angry that in both cases, Trump is to blame for the sanctions. The one with Russia because of the firing of Comey coupled with non-stop absurd statements and lies, and the one with Iran because a guy with a little D by his name signed the Iran Deal. And as we all know, we simply can't have that.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/politics ... dex.htmlNo mention at the Munich Security Conf of our tanks in Poland, our Marines in Arctic Norway, our carrier strike group in the North Sea ? When's the last time a German warship entered the Black Sea or transited their South China Sea trade routes. Has a German aircraft ever dropped a munition in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or even NATO lead Libya ? Meanwhile -- US, Brit & French flight crews & strike aircraft are deploying aboard each other's carriers for the first time in NATO's history & Poland wants to build a Ft Trump to host a US Armored Div.

For now, I'm happy to give Trump credit for this change. But a steak dinner says that our Generals are doing this without Trump's knowledge, and we'll find that out when the book comes out.

The EUros are coming to the realization that it's not "just Trump" -- he represents a significant % of US public opinion. Their free ride is coming to an end. If they invest more, deploy more, & participate more kinetically in NATO, the alliance will be better able to defend them if & when needed.

We'll see. If the US can keep its powder dry and not invade a new country for a few years, this might just happen.

And if that happens, the Green Deal is a whole lot more likely to happen. Anyone notice the line item in the Green Deal where they cut spending by $340 Billion?
[/quote]

No, I did NOT notice this line item in AOC & Markey GND. Link please

[a fan]

Ah, went to the Congressional resolution site, and it's gone.

It was the part on closing all military bases, and cutting Military spending in half. It's in the Green Party's deal, and was in the leaked Cortez et. al. Green Deal....but it was yanked, obviously, in the last few days.

Bummer. And my mistake for not seeing the final version, apologies.

[old salt]

Anyone notice the line item in the Green Deal where they cut spending by $340 Billion?

Ah, went to the Congressional resolution site, and it's gone.

It was the part on closing all military bases, and cutting Military spending in half. It's in the Green Party's deal, and was in the leaked Cortez et. al. Green Deal....but it was yanked, obviously, in the last few days.

Bummer. And my mistake for not seeing the final version, apologies.

I missed the first draft of the Green New Deal before they took it down.

Plz recount, to the best of your memory, what they proposed re. military spending, overseas bases, alliances, deployments, etc.

I told you before I could build you a military to protect just our homeland & selectively keep our vital sea lanes open for our trade.
We'd have to be more self-sufficient & less dependent on imports. Globalism & global trade would suffer.

[a fan]

It was very simple. Close all overseas military spending. Cut defense spending in half.

That was as complicated as the wording got. Zero specifics.


I remember what you told me about this issue----I'm just the messenger on this one. They pulled it, so it's a non-issue.

[cradleandshoot]

It was very simple. Close all overseas military spending. Cut defense spending in half.

That was as complicated as the wording got. Zero specifics.


I remember what you told me about this issue----I'm just the messenger on this one. They pulled it, so it's a non-issue.

They may have pulled it but I doubt very much it has gone away...

[a fan]

I thought it was a strange item to pull-----more than a few Americans have had enough of the starting wars all over the world nonsense, not to mention blowing money to help citizens other nations while neglecting our own.

[runrussellrun]

Ah, went to the Congressional resolution site, and it's gone.

It was the part on closing all military bases, and cutting Military spending in half. It's in the Green Party's deal, and was in the leaked Cortez et. al. Green Deal....but it was yanked, obviously, in the last few days.

Bummer. And my mistake for not seeing the final version, apologies.

It was never included in the Congressional record, that's why you can't find it. You just can't make a document "dissappear". You are referring to the strange 6 page "summary" that was posted/linked in a few articles. Still not to hard to find:

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... w-Deal-FAQ

But, not seeing word won on cutting military spending in half........closing bases. YOU?

You are referring to the "green party's" plan, which the AOC clowns were too stupid to just cut N paste.

https://www.gp.org/gnd_full

[a fan]

I know it was never included...I didn't mean to imply it was there, and it's gone now.

I made a mistake. Won't be the last time.

[old salt]

I haven't heard the announcement yet of which MilCon $$$ will be diverted for the Wall.

Could probably get most, or all, of it from projects on overseas bases (ask our allies to pick up the tab).

That should make the Green New Dealers happy.

...or he could zero out all unexecuted MilCon for EUro bases, stop shipments of pre-positioned US military equipment for storage in EU nations & announce our rotational forces now deployed to NATO will come home at the end of this deployment without replacement.

OK EUroburghers, now let's talk trade, sanctions & NATO burden sharing.

[a fan]

Or, the EU will realize that Putin ain't coming with or without those bases, remember that France, the UK, Belgium, Italy, and the Netherlands all have nukes, and keep on keeping on......

[old salt]

Say what ? When did Belgium, Italy & the Netherlands get nucs ?

It's not the bases which deter Putin, it's the US forces who man them.

[a fan]

Was just having a bit of fun.

And I agree about the US forces, of course. Have said all you need is 20 marines, and that's enough.

I'm left wondering if we'll ever get to the point where we find which pot this wall money is going to come from.....I'm curious as hell.

[holmes435]

Say what ? When did Belgium, Italy & the Netherlands get nucs ?

It's not the bases which deter Putin, it's the US forces who man them.

They got nukes when we gave them nukes.

Yes we're in charge of the weapons, but Putin is scared of both the bases and the US forces who man them. He's scared of the unified NATO front and its ability to impose heavy sanctions and whittle away his power in-country.

Which is why they have an active campaign to undermine NATO and why it's such a big deal that Trump is spewing such pro-Russian propaganda, like Montenegro and other BS. It's one thing to suggest NATO allies spend a little more, it's another to threaten to pull out and destabilize the west insofar as its power to control Russian pursestrings and other important items.

You always complain about Germany buying energy, but ignore the tactical advantage that creates for the west. Germany can buy energy from most of the world. Russia can't sell energy to most of the world. Germany is basically a dealer giving the first hit for free, but you don't see that.

Putin is actively trying to destabilize western alliances, and has done a good job of it. He'd much prefer to deal with each country unilaterally than against a multilateral front.

Does any of that seem to fit into what's going on in this country with our President? Seems to fit like a glove. And no, not like a bloody, dried out Isotoner over a base layer.