THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[wgdsr]

goal 4: spencer gets inside/by foley. either that's why he slid, or that's a defense they're in (to go on a spencer dodge there). someone (maybe colwell) is at fault for not prepping a 2 slide, if in fact he didn't. but if he doesn't come, spencer is getting to the front of the goal. colwell coming basically causes spencer to pull up, and then of course pass. the 2 slide also needs to be there, regardless of someone asking for backup.

Guess I'm just not really seeing that. Foley looks to be in decent position to me. Maybe he gets beat for a goal if there's no slide help, but you at least have to make him work for it. The chances of him beating Foley there 1on1 might be high, but it skyrockets to 100%+ Loyola goal if the crease guy slides to Spencer and leaves a dude wide open in Darby's face. It happens too fast to expect a second slide to be there on time. Even if the second slide reacts quickly he'll more than likely still be on the defenders' back and as we've seen Lindley only needs a fraction of a second to receive the pass before he quicksticks it into the back of the net. If the strategy was indeed "slide immediately to a dangerous Spencer dodge" then I'm not sure what they were thinking. Sure, it's pick your poison with Spencer, but to me turning him into a distributor is the deadlier poison. If you're really worried about Spencer beating Foley there then maybe you start hedging a slide before he crosses GLE to make Spencer hesitate a split second about going to the rack. That way you're still in a position to body up Lindley if Spencer still passes out of that. But the sudden, full commit to the slide in this situation will lead to a goal every time. Letting Foley go at Spencer alone will lead to a goal or two (as it did later in the game on the dive), but you can't just fork over easy opportunities to the best passer in the world.

Anywho, appreciate your analysis, always good to get another pair of eyes on this stuff. No matter who is at fault for what it's clear that neither the defensive strategy nor the execution on Saturday were up to par.

tomato, tomato.
spencer got inside him and has him on his back. foley doesn't even have the benefit from that angle of cutting thru crease. if you can picture no slide there, spencer is in front of the cage. best case scenario for hopkins on a hedge, spencer pulls up for a beat, but he knows as he squats foley is likely to push him upfield for a good angle/maybe hands free 5x5 island shot.
hopkins was in absolutely perfect position to cover a slide to spencer here. dipietro was there, and he had kuhn essentially on his back. the problem wasn't that there was no way to prevent a wide open crease guy. there are 2 guys there. the problem was that dipietro, though ready to cover the 2 slide... then hesitated, missed a beat, and that's all that it takes. the entire concept of a crease slide only works if you cover the 2 (and if needed with 2 offensive creasemen, the 3). but it's also what the entire concept is built around. you'll always be trailing a cutter to back pipe, but if you're there it's a check down once the ball is within 5 yards and a very likely turnover oob.
this is the difference between a very good defensive effort and a layup. everything was in place. one guy just didn't execute.

and the idea would be to not only prevent a spencer dodge to the cage, but get a second pole on his hands while spencer/loyola would need to find kuhn's guy, who is likely way up at the top of the box. hopkins would have time to recover, and they'd possibly have a chance to get the ball on the ground with the double. you just can't miss a slide --- obviously including to the guy cutting back pipe who can finish and spencer feeding.

forgot to include another goal earlier:
goal #3: spencer is set, that's not moving. the play is on foley. when the loyola mid redodges, regardless of whatever instructions there are on picks, foley needs to see hubler is going to get trapped on the redodge. he needs to do something more when a player with the ball is heading to a dangerous spot on the field than just try to get small (and end up being a double screen anyway). hubler did a good job on d, forcing him back (even if that's what loyola was trying to do anyway). it wouldn't surprise me if the entire dodge/redodge was loyola reading how hopkins was playing picks, and taking advantage. even with all of that, it's a spot where foley needs to recognize he has to do something to disrupt the dodge/shot. hubler's playing the ball, he can't play the ball and figure out how to run thru a double pick. it's also about a 14 + yd shot, tho well placed.

[rc13]

It simply became less of a part of student culture... as late as the late-'80s, students knew what Saturdays were home games and planned around them. That's nowhere near the case anymore. It's just reality.

The question is: is this acceptable?

Whether it's Hopkins or any other school where students are apathetic about the school's premier athletic teams.

Acceptable to whom? I would love to see more student interest--it's just not there. At this point, it's not so much continuing a tradition, it's more like re-starting a dormant tradition.

Two years ago, prior to the Loyola game, there were signs all over campus that read (direct quote):

JOHNS HOPKINS

HOPKINS vs LOYOLA
Saturday 2/18 at 1pm
Come to the game for a
chance to win $500

GAME DAY

With nice weather and the enticement, they did get a good crowd in 2017, but you can see what they're up against. There was a time when no such enticement was necessary.

[Hawkeye]

Acceptable to whom?

The administration, athletic director, alumni, boosters, etc. - the "powers that be" as a whole.

[viper]

Well I expect that this will change with the recruiting rules changes. Let's see if it's enough to make a difference before the contract ends. Keep in mind that Petro was not the only coach thriving on the 8th grader, I would be curious to know how are some of those other schools doing now as well.

That is exactly who petro recruits the stud 8th grader, that may or may not develop. Sign them so, Md, NC or whom ever cannot. Sometimes it paysoff, sometimes it does not... It looks like the latter these past couple of recruiting classes

[runrussellrun]

Well I expect that this will change with the recruiting rules changes. Let's see if it's enough to make a difference before the contract ends. Keep in mind that Petro was not the only coach thriving on the 8th grader, I would be curious to know how are some of those other schools doing now as well.

That is exactly who petro recruits the stud 8th grader, that may or may not develop. Sign them so, Md, NC or whom ever cannot. Sometimes it paysoff, sometimes it does not... It looks like the latter these past couple of recruiting classes

Well, UNC, for one, is eaking out victories over the 25% teams (1 of 4 games would they win. Decent teams) and have recently been outscored...in just a half, by a dozen goals, during the most recent n$aa's. UNC not invited last year, at all. Rutgers over hopkins shouldave......

But, of COURSE, Blue jays playing them close, or perhaps even winning (they will ) PROVES something.

[PicLax]

Reading with interest the earlier and interspersed comments on low game attendance. A few factors come to mind.
One, JHU underclass size is 5,600 students. Compare this to random other schools with strong lacrosse traditions like UVA (16,000 undergrads), Syracuse (15,000), Maryland (30,000), North Carolina (18,000), and its easy to see that there is a much smaller base to draw student spectators from.
Two, a typical JHU student is at the school because he/she is very smart. Average SAT score for acceptance is 1520. Students are very driven toward further academic and professional success, with aspirations primarily in the medical field (in which grades and undergrad performance have become much more important and competitive). These are not students majoring in soft BA programs with a lot of weekend free time on their hands. I know everyone has some free time, but when prioritizing, would an average JHU student with very limited free time rather go out and get a beer or two with their buds, or sit outside in the cold?
Three, while other schools such as Duke fall into the same category as JHU in terms of student size and academic rigor, those schools are much more entrenched in athletics and have much more of an athletic and fan-based culture, primarily from being D1 in every sport (has anyone not heard of Duke basketball?).
There are ways of drawing students to the games, and they start and end with the team itself. Are the players friends with other students, or do the hibernate together in the same dorm, same meal facilities, same off-campus hangouts, same corner of the campus all the time? You want your classmates to come watch you play? Hang out with them. Make friends with them. Be involved in the college and college life. Help form (or re-invigorate) the campus-wide culture. Make them want to spend their limited free time watching a lacrosse game. Maybe they’re doing these things already. But maybe not. And if not, good time to start, if having fans in the stands is important to them.
Obviously a winning team will help draw student fans. There have been posts galore on this sight about what the team lacks or what they need to change in order to win, and I’m certainly no expert, so I won’t even try to add to those comments (by the way, last count had this site with 742 comments; second place in the fanlax forum is UVA with 208. JUH fans are nothing if not passionate). But aside from winning, fans and friends want to see the team having fun, being competitive, being passionate about playing, playing with good sportsmanship and respect, supporting each other and hearing and seeing the same from the entrenched fans in the stands. The positive culture the JHU coaches, players, alumni and long-time fans can establish and/or perpetuate will go a long way toward the success of the program and fan support.

[rc13]

Acceptable to whom?

The administration, athletic director, alumni, boosters, etc. - the "powers that be" as a whole.

I hear you, but what can be done? From the administrative perspective, they're never going to make interest in lacrosse a prerequisite for admission. So with the students they get, the athletic department tries to sell them on lacrosse. It's not as easy a sell as it may seem. It sounds easy to an alum (and I am one) who knows the old culture. Hard to make people care.

[runrussellrun]

During hopkins n$aa football run, they couldn't even get a thousand people to show up. Could get the "finals" argument, but, no regular season game had more than 1200 people watching pigskin. It is what it is.....hopkins is a Div.3 school.

[molo]

With all due respect to Hopkins' academic prowess, I can't sit by and let some of this bs go. I barely graduated from UVA with a BA in English, and hard as it is to imagine, I even managed not to get all As in a graduate program in education at UVA. I didn't, however, ever get a B at Hopkins in CASE program in education. I'll be the first to admit that graduate programs in education are far easier than undergrad programs in the arts and sciences, but liberal arts majors at demanding schools are not gut majors. Hopkins undergraduate work may be tough, but to imply that students at places like UVA or UNC go to games because they do not face academic challenges is inaccurate. I'm not aware of programs in English or history, for example, that don't require extensive reading.

[HopFan16]

Hopkins undergraduate work may be tough, but to imply that students at places like UVA or UNC go to games because they do not face academic challenges is inaccurate. I'm not aware of programs in English or history, for example, that don't require extensive reading.

Totally true, however I would argue the culture at these schools are a little different. Hopkins gained a reputation as a cutthroat school for a reason. Some of it may be the large pre-med influence. God knows the majority of those students are not making time for lacrosse games. In addition to being great academic schools, UVA and UNC also have big sports/party cultures, being D1 in every sport. Hop is a D3 school, with a D3 culture, that happens to have one sport D1. UNC has 18k undergrads, UVA has 16. Hop has 5.5.

tomato, tomato.

Fair enough. I've never coached lacrosse at any level before, so I won't pretend like I know better than Dave Pietramala—just calling out what my eyes are seeing. I still don't think Colwell needs to be sliding there. Petro talked a lot about simplifying the schemes last year and the result was some pretty good defense at times, especially toward the end of the season. Maybe Spencer beats Foley but I'm of the opinion that you have to make him at least make a play. You can't be creating offense for them. Sliding off the crease there to help Spencer's man is just asking for trouble. Maybe Spencer gets topside with his hands free (still not sure that's the case, but like you said, tomato tomato) but that's still better odds than Lindley on the doorstep with no one within 3 yards of him.

[tech37]

Hasn't the type of student at Hopkins changed since the 80's? Perhaps they now don't give a damn about any sport let alone lacrosse.

[rc13]

Hasn't the type of student at Hopkins changed since the 80's? Perhaps they now don't give a damn about any sport let alone lacrosse.

Somewhat perhaps. But I think more importantly, students walked onto campus in the 1980s into a culture where people spent spring Saturday afternoons at Homewood Field. Students coming in now are not experiencing that culture.

Even Spring Fair is nowhere near what it once was. Gets smaller every year.

[DMac]

With all due respect to Hopkins' academic prowess, I can't sit by and let some of this bs go.

Cue the Ivies....strange silence so far.

[runrussellrun]

With all due respect to Hopkins' academic prowess, I can't sit by and let some of this bs go.

Cue the Ivies....strange silence so far.

Isn't Ben Reeves actually in med school , as we type?

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

With all due respect to Hopkins' academic prowess, I can't sit by and let some of this bs go. I barely graduated from UVA with a BA in English, and hard as it is to imagine, I even managed not to get all As in a graduate program in education at UVA. I didn't, however, ever get a B at Hopkins in CASE program in education. I'll be the first to admit that graduate programs in education are far easier than undergrad programs in the arts and sciences, but liberal arts majors at demanding schools are not gut majors. Hopkins undergraduate work may be tough, but to imply that students at places like UVA or UNC go to games because they do not face academic challenges is inaccurate. I'm not aware of programs in English or history, for example, that don't require extensive reading.

Bell curve.

Bigger enrollments mean proportionally more morons.

The UNC posters have to come from somewhere.

[Drcthru]

Latest from Massey.
https://www.masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings

[jhu06]

Forry Smith-committed to Johns Hopkins November 2012
High Point University Mens lacrosse-began play Spring 2013

JHU lacrosse-outscored 70-31 last 4 meetings against Duke-all losses.
HPU lacrosse defeated Duke 13-9 in durham this year.
Hopkins lacrosse last win at duke 2004.

[runrussellrun]

Forry Smith-committed to Johns Hopkins November 2012
High Point University Mens lacrosse-began play Spring 2013

JHU lacrosse-outscored 70-31 last 4 meetings against Duke-all losses.
HPU lacrosse defeated Duke 13-9 in durham this year.
Hopkins lacrosse last win at duke 2004.

Dinty Moore was a noted coach for St. Johns dynasty. Enjoy the history.....bout all you got at this point.

But, you WILL beat UNC and all will be well......

[jhu06]

not sure what you're saying there RRR.

[runrussellrun]

not sure what you're saying there RRR.

clearly, you don't own Bob Scott's classic....or the re-do, including Petro's mind boggling math thoughts when it comes to CTO's and why bother trying (his math says "try to take it away", but......concludes what HE wants to conclude.