2021 NCAA Tournament

[Farfromgeneva]

Oh I agree just pointing out the system put in place is structurally tilted towards legacy program conferences that have these days little to do with alignment of institutional interests but rather designed to game the playoff systems across college sports since Syracuse,Va Tech and BC left the Big East for the ACC if not prior.

There’s a parallel to a political board here discussing structural inequities except easier to define bias here...

[Farfromgeneva]

But the current RPI system that double counts SOS has a built in bias towards larger conferences which I know you are aware of.

they used straight (your own team's) rpi the last 3 years. which they're not even supposed to use. but not double counting with sos.

and what i'm suggesting is that teams that want to be part of the mix need to schedule those games. is that easy? nope. you need to win first, not be a pariah, travel.

what's special about towson or loyola or denver getting those games and if they perform, they're in? plus they have an aq shot.

well, one of them is their coach stays even after they win for a couple years. anything else?

It’s not always as easy to get games on the way up. Hobart will always have Cornell and Cuse but after that they are in a gray zone the last few years (like tail end of the 2000s when the decline picked up post move to D1 in 1995 where they had top 15-20 sos for more than a decade in D1). Suddenly the Browns and Bucknells (feds is an alum not less) don’t want to risk a loss and don’t gain enough from a win. Denver has Tierney, Loyola has a title, towson mostly rocks around the Balt area like Hobart does with Cuse and Cornell though not quite the same tradition there and just has more options within 2hrs.

Harder to do in W PA (romo was unique this year) HPU and Richmond do it because they can play earlier in season and easy trips from CVille or Raleigh Durham.

How does a CAA team do it though? Takes both sides I don’t believe the strong programs have an obligation to spread their scheduling out but if they aren’t they (and their fan surrogates here) shouldn’t tell the low to mid tier guys to schedule tougher when those schools aren’t opening up their schedules to do so.

[wgdsr]

Oh I agree just pointing out the system put in place is structurally tilted towards legacy program conferences that have these days little to do with alignment of institutional interests but rather designed to game the playoff systems across college sports since Syracuse,Va Tech and BC left the Big East for the ACC if not prior.

rpi does not see jersey names. it's the furthest thing from. what they (selectors) actually have been doing, going back a long time, is absurd. the inconsistency of it all. lack of transparency. granted, the rules (that they haven't actually been following for 4 years now) are vague for weighting, etc.

but no coaches are up in arms (at least not publicly). my own amateur take is coaches do not in fact know how to game the system. my evidence is in the bluebloods and several of the games they schedule. i.e. virginia has no business scheduling vmi. but they do it. legacy, respect, maybe. but they're not the only example even for them.

do i think all mid-majors are falling all over themselves to know who has what coming back, utilizing AI, cultivating relationships everywhere not just the easy places, know who is running out on what weekend of a 1 or 2 year contract with other teams... i could go on.

so instead schedule njit. instead of not scheduling them at all. (sorry njit).

[wgdsr]

But the current RPI system that double counts SOS has a built in bias towards larger conferences which I know you are aware of.

they used straight (your own team's) rpi the last 3 years. which they're not even supposed to use. but not double counting with sos.

and what i'm suggesting is that teams that want to be part of the mix need to schedule those games. is that easy? nope. you need to win first, not be a pariah, travel.

what's special about towson or loyola or denver getting those games and if they perform, they're in? plus they have an aq shot.

well, one of them is their coach stays even after they win for a couple years. anything else?

It’s not always as easy to get games on the way up. Hobart will always have Cornell and Cuse but after that they are in a gray zone the last few years (like tail end of the 2000s when the decline picked up post move to D1 in 1995 where they had top 15-20 sos for more than a decade in D1). Suddenly the Browns and Bucknells (feds is an alum not less) don’t want to risk a loss and don’t gain enough from a win. Denver has Tierney, Loyola has a title, towson mostly rocks around the Balt area like Hobart does with Cuse and Cornell though not quite the same tradition there and just has more options within 2hrs.

Harder to do in W PA (romo was unique this year) HPU and Richmond do it because they can play earlier in season and easy trips from CVille or Raleigh Durham.

How does a CAA team do it though? Takes both sides I don’t believe the strong programs have an obligation to spread their scheduling out but if they aren’t they (and their fan surrogates here) shouldn’t tell the low to mid tier guys to schedule tougher when those schools aren’t opening up their schedules to do so.

i realize. that's why i said you have to win first. and keep your coach.

[Farfromgeneva]

Depends on the coach. Some are roll the ball on the field types and some are pretty cerebral. I think a guy like Shay does hence his well know us seen of telling kids to commit anywhere early under prior rules to keep other wolves at bay because he can pull them in later in HS once he established their value and ability to get into Yale. He’s pulling a free option on the kids and tying up other schools future planning. It’s brilliant and I can’t fault him for it but that’s gaming the system no?

[Farfromgeneva]

But the current RPI system that double counts SOS has a built in bias towards larger conferences which I know you are aware of.

they used straight (your own team's) rpi the last 3 years. which they're not even supposed to use. but not double counting with sos.

and what i'm suggesting is that teams that want to be part of the mix need to schedule those games. is that easy? nope. you need to win first, not be a pariah, travel.

what's special about towson or loyola or denver getting those games and if they perform, they're in? plus they have an aq shot.

well, one of them is their coach stays even after they win for a couple years. anything else?

It’s not always as easy to get games on the way up. Hobart will always have Cornell and Cuse but after that they are in a gray zone the last few years (like tail end of the 2000s when the decline picked up post move to D1 in 1995 where they had top 15-20 sos for more than a decade in D1). Suddenly the Browns and Bucknells (feds is an alum not less) don’t want to risk a loss and don’t gain enough from a win. Denver has Tierney, Loyola has a title, towson mostly rocks around the Balt area like Hobart does with Cuse and Cornell though not quite the same tradition there and just has more options within 2hrs.

Harder to do in W PA (romo was unique this year) HPU and Richmond do it because they can play earlier in season and easy trips from CVille or Raleigh Durham.

How does a CAA team do it though? Takes both sides I don’t believe the strong programs have an obligation to spread their scheduling out but if they aren’t they (and their fan surrogates here) shouldn’t tell the low to mid tier guys to schedule tougher when those schools aren’t opening up their schedules to do so.

i realize. that's why i said you have to win first. and keep your coach.

If Raymond or Wray won a single first round (not play in) game or string a handful of NCAA seasons together what are the odds they keep them (assuming it’s before either hit 50)? How many offers has Nadelen and Chemotti has or how many jobs and Cassesse gone after?

Keeping the coach is near impossible for smaller programs.

Edit: we had to pay up simply because Princeton called a couple years ago on Raymond but he didn’t even visit for a interview from my understanding.

[wgdsr]

But the current RPI system that double counts SOS has a built in bias towards larger conferences which I know you are aware of.

they used straight (your own team's) rpi the last 3 years. which they're not even supposed to use. but not double counting with sos.

and what i'm suggesting is that teams that want to be part of the mix need to schedule those games. is that easy? nope. you need to win first, not be a pariah, travel.

what's special about towson or loyola or denver getting those games and if they perform, they're in? plus they have an aq shot.

well, one of them is their coach stays even after they win for a couple years. anything else?

It’s not always as easy to get games on the way up. Hobart will always have Cornell and Cuse but after that they are in a gray zone the last few years (like tail end of the 2000s when the decline picked up post move to D1 in 1995 where they had top 15-20 sos for more than a decade in D1). Suddenly the Browns and Bucknells (feds is an alum not less) don’t want to risk a loss and don’t gain enough from a win. Denver has Tierney, Loyola has a title, towson mostly rocks around the Balt area like Hobart does with Cuse and Cornell though not quite the same tradition there and just has more options within 2hrs.

Harder to do in W PA (romo was unique this year) HPU and Richmond do it because they can play earlier in season and easy trips from CVille or Raleigh Durham.

How does a CAA team do it though? Takes both sides I don’t believe the strong programs have an obligation to spread their scheduling out but if they aren’t they (and their fan surrogates here) shouldn’t tell the low to mid tier guys to schedule tougher when those schools aren’t opening up their schedules to do so.

i realize. that's why i said you have to win first. and keep your coach.

If Raymond or Wray won a single first round (not play in) game or string a handful of NCAA seasons together what are the odds they keep them (assuming it’s before either hit 50)? How many offers has Nadelen and Chemotti has or how many jobs and Cassesse gone after?

Keeping the coach is near impossible for smaller programs.

Edit: we had to pay up simply because Princeton called a couple years ago on Raymond but he didn’t even visit for a interview from my understanding.

it wouldn't say it's near impossible. i believe both chemotti and nadelen were also reupped when others came calling.
if brown paid up enough, tiffany's probably still there.

so the next question is, should we be handing out bids because programs can't keep their coach?

you know who my first call would be to if they hired me? laf.

[Farfromgeneva]

Can I be an assistant? I can be “director of after game entertainment and social activities”.

I’m not disagreeing just when things like “schedule tougher” get thrown out from a fan or alum of a huge school w football money it’s not the best delivery of the message. And acute at Hobart where we get squeezed as a D3 school (wo acholies due time NCAA aucking) and title 9 squeeze at a school thats 55/45 girls wi successful women’s sports and a successful football program the last 20yrs that carries roughly a hundred kids - All expense no revenue from a NCAA calculation thought he bottom 10-15% of the roster is usually full payers that subsidize the small enrollment and allow the barbelling strategy the school deploys in overall admissions strategy). I’ve watched the hobart lacrosse schedule deteriorate for 20yrs now almost linearally and hear from insiders that we can’t get decent OOC opponents since Raymond appears to have settled the sinking ship from early last decade.

[wgdsr]

Can I be an assistant? I can be “director of after game entertainment and social activities”.

I’m not disagreeing just when things like “schedule tougher” get thrown out from a fan or alum of a huge school w football money it’s not the best delivery of the message. And acute at Hobart where we get squeezed as a D3 school (wo acholies due time NCAA aucking) and title 9 squeeze at a school thats 55/45 girls wi successful women’s sports and a successful football program the last 20yrs that carries roughly a hundred kids - All expense no revenue from a NCAA calculation thought he bottom 10-15% of the roster is usually full payers that subsidize the small enrollment and allow the barbelling strategy the school deploys in overall admissions strategy). I’ve watched the hobart lacrosse schedule deteriorate for 20yrs now almost linearally and hear from insiders that we can’t get decent OOC opponents since Raymond appears to have settled the sinking ship from early last decade.

i did explain the process. and said it wasn't easy.
i watched a couple of hobart last year, exciting team. shame they couldn't finish that year out.

to wit... not one bart ooc was scheduled not only out of new york, but against anyone but an upstate team. no one else in the country would play them? no one? they did have 3 good scrimmages that might've been laying the groundwork.

ftr, i have a background in scheduling (not college), and some disadvantages working with, too. and whatever inherent disadvantages they have as a program, if we're going there for who gets into the tournament, is that the direction we want? who has the most disadvantages?

[Farfromgeneva]

Can I be an assistant? I can be “director of after game entertainment and social activities”.

I’m not disagreeing just when things like “schedule tougher” get thrown out from a fan or alum of a huge school w football money it’s not the best delivery of the message. And acute at Hobart where we get squeezed as a D3 school (wo acholies due time NCAA aucking) and title 9 squeeze at a school thats 55/45 girls wi successful women’s sports and a successful football program the last 20yrs that carries roughly a hundred kids - All expense no revenue from a NCAA calculation thought he bottom 10-15% of the roster is usually full payers that subsidize the small enrollment and allow the barbelling strategy the school deploys in overall admissions strategy). I’ve watched the hobart lacrosse schedule deteriorate for 20yrs now almost linearally and hear from insiders that we can’t get decent OOC opponents since Raymond appears to have settled the sinking ship from early last decade.

i did explain the process. and said it wasn't easy.
i watched a couple of hobart last year, exciting team. shame they couldn't finish that year out.

to wit... not one bart ooc was scheduled not only out of new york, but against anyone but an upstate team. no one else in the country would play them? no one? they did have 3 good scrimmages that might've been laying the groundwork.

ftr, i have a background in scheduling (not college), and some disadvantages working with, too. and whatever inherent disadvantages they have as a program, if we're going there for who gets into the tournament, is that the direction we want? who has the most disadvantages?

Not arguing for change as much as asking for less dismissiveness of the efforts made by many. Telling folks “schedule tougher” or so this or that like any up for a big time coach doesnt recognize the difficulty doing so. Not you but often comes from the same folks (hope specially) who line for growth of the game and national recognition while not wanting to help with the flattening that would occur with such growth.

For the record I hate our OOC and it is part a money decision. But leaving the PL & ECAC for NEC men’s requiring a more challenging OOC. Raymond has taken it too far and made the mistake thinking that Colgate would be better and that Siena would be functional post Brecht. Gate and Canisus been on the schedule since the beginning of D1 though so inertia may have set in there.

[Farfromgeneva]

It was already lightening up by 2008 but compare with now,which I believe is in part due to AQ causing all sorts of conference hopping. (Veltman was suspense 1st 3 games over a Hanna mess up on timing as he played in some “professional” canadian contest the prior summer though not paid-we flip Bucknell and or UMass and probably an at a large with an equal or worse record than in 2019h


Sun, Feb. 24, 2008 1:30 PM
at #15 Bucknell
Lewisburg, Pa.
LOSS 9 - 10
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
University of Hartford
Sat, Mar. 1, 2008 1:00 PM
vs Hartford
Geneva, N.Y.
McCooey Field
WIN 13 - 4
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Saint Joseph
Sat, Mar. 8, 2008 1:00 PM
vs Saint Joseph's (Pa.)
Geneva, N.Y.
McCooey Field
WIN 8 - 3
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Georgetown University
Sat, Mar. 15, 2008 1:00 PM
at #12 Georgetown
ECACLLWashington, D.C.
LOSS 12 - 13
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Presbyterian College
Tue, Mar. 18, 2008 2:00 PM
vs Presbyterian
Richmond, Va.
WIN 19 - 4
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Rutgers University
Fri, Mar. 21, 2008 7:00 PM
at Rutgers
ECACLLNew Brunswick, N.J.
LOSS 10 - 13
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Syracuse University
Tue, Mar. 25, 2008 7:00 PM
vs #2 Syracuse
Geneva, N.Y.
McCooey Field
LOSS 5 - 13
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Fairfield University
Sat, Mar. 29, 2008 1:00 PM
at Fairfield
ECACLLFairfield, Conn.
WIN 12 - 4
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Penn State University
Sat, Apr. 5, 2008 1:00 PM
vs Penn State
ECACLLGeneva, N.Y.
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 8 - 6
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
University of Massachusetts
Sat, Apr. 12, 2008 1:00 PM
at Massachusetts
ECACLLAmherst, Mass.
LOSS 7 - 8
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
St. John
Sat, Apr. 19, 2008 1:00 PM
vs St. John's
ECACLLGeneva, N.Y.
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 17 - 7
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Canisius College
Tue, Apr. 22, 2008 7:00 PM
at Canisius
Buffalo, N.Y.
WIN 10 - 3
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Loyola University Maryland
Sat, Apr. 26, 2008 2:00 PM
vs #15 Loyola (Md.)
ECACLLGeneva, N.Y.
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 10 - 6
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score
Cornell University
Fri, May. 2, 2008 7:00 PM
vs #8 Cornell
Geneva, N.Y.
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
LOSS 7 - 15
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Box Score

2019

Sat, Feb. 9, 2019 7 PM
vs Canisius College
Victor, NY
WIN 21 - 12
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Pinnacle Athletic CampusPhoto Gallery
Siena College
Sat, Feb. 16, 2019 1 PM
at Siena College
Loudonville, NY
WIN 22 - 12
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
Cornell University
Fri, Feb. 22, 2019 5 PM
vs #4 Cornell University
Geneva, NY
LOSS 16 - 19
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
Binghamton University
Sat, Mar. 2, 2019 2 PM
at Binghamton University
Vestal, NY
WIN 16 - 7
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
University of Vermont
Sat, Mar. 9, 2019 2 PM
vs University of Vermont
New Canaan, CT
WIN 17 - 11
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:
Wagner College
Sat, Mar. 16, 2019 3 PM
vs Wagner College
NECGeneva, NY
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 13 - 7
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game NotesPhoto Gallery
Colgate University
Tue, Mar. 19, 2019 4 PM
at Colgate University
Hamilton, NY
WIN 12 - 6
Game Recap
Box Score
Sacred Heart University
Sat, Mar. 23, 2019 Noon
at Sacred Heart University
NECFairfield, CT
WIN 10 - 9
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
St. Bonaventure University
Wed, Mar. 27, 2019 7 PM
vs St. Bonaventure University
Geneva, NY
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 18 - 8
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game NotesPhoto Gallery
Syracuse University
Tue, Apr. 2, 2019 7 PM
vs #13/#11 Syracuse University
Geneva, NY
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
LOSS 5 - 17
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game NotesPhoto Gallery
Saint Joseph
Sat, Apr. 6, 2019 1 PM
at Saint Joseph's University
NECPhiladelphia, PA
LOSS 11 - 12
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
Bryant University
Sat, Apr. 13, 2019 Noon
vs Bryant University
NECGeneva, NY
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 12 - 11
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
Mount St. Mary
Sat, Apr. 20, 2019 Noon
vs Mount St. Mary's (Md.)
NECGeneva, NY
Boswell Field at David J Urick Stadium
WIN 11 - 8
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Pregame Fan TailgateGame Notes
Robert Morris University
Sat, Apr. 27, 2019 1 PM
at Robert Morris University
NECMoon Township, PA
LOSS 15 - 16
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Notes
Sacred Heart University
Thu, May. 2, 2019 8:30 PM
vs Sacred Heart University
Emmitsburg, MD
WIN 14 - 13
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game NotesPhoto Gallery
Robert Morris University
Sat, May. 4, 2019 4 PM
vs Robert Morris University
Emmitsburg, MD
LOSS 10 - 11
Game Recap
Box Score
LINKS:Game Note

[AreaLax]

From Terry Foy @ IL twitter

BREAKING: An email from @NCAALAX Administrator to participants at 10:41 pm ET: “Vaccinated individuals will be allowed into Tier 1 areas, as long as they do not exceed established limits. For DI MLAX, the maximum of additional vaccinated individuals is 7 for a total of 52.”

Some teams have already traveled

[xxxxxxx]

From Terry Foy @ IL twitter

BREAKING: An email from @NCAALAX Administrator to participants at 10:41 pm ET: “Vaccinated individuals will be allowed into Tier 1 areas, as long as they do not exceed established limits. For DI MLAX, the maximum of additional vaccinated individuals is 7 for a total of 52.”

Some teams have already traveled

They are a disgrace, could have made this announcement 2 weeks ago, my hate for the NCAA is unhealthy.

[AreaLax]

Men’s 2021 Tewaaraton Finalists:

Jared Bernhardt, Maryland — Sr., Attack
Jake Carraway, Georgetown — Grad. Student, Attack
Chris Gray, North Carolina — Sr., Attack
Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame — Soph., Attack
Michael Sowers, Duke — Grad. Student, Attack

[10stone5]

Men’s 2021 Tewaaraton Finalists:

Jared Bernhardt, Maryland — Sr., Attack
Jake Carraway, Georgetown — Grad. Student, Attack
Chris Gray, North Carolina — Sr., Attack
Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame — Soph., Attack
Michael Sowers, Duke — Grad. Student, Attack

That’s the final, final list ?

[AreaLax]

Men’s 2021 Tewaaraton Finalists:

Jared Bernhardt, Maryland — Sr., Attack
Jake Carraway, Georgetown — Grad. Student, Attack
Chris Gray, North Carolina — Sr., Attack
Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame — Soph., Attack
Michael Sowers, Duke — Grad. Student, Attack

That’s the final, final list ?

Yes

[xxxxxxx]

Attackman of the year award, no other position has a chance. It's sad.

[AreaLax]

Attackman of the year award, no other position has a chance. It's sad.

Agree. They either need to rename it or have one for offense and one for defense

[Farfromgeneva]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

[smoova]

Attackman of the year award, no other position has a chance. It's sad.

Agree. They either need to rename it or have one for offense and one for defense

Amen.