Johns Hopkins 2022

[houndace1]

If we banned speculation a lot of the BS that gets posted would clear up. Too many post as fact what is pure speculation based on thin gruel at best if not the exercise of bias.

Since I know all three coaches involved I will speculate based on what I know to be their operating styles.

When Petro was hired to replace TS it was not because TS failed to win a title. It was because off field behavior was becoming problematic and threatening to potentially harm the team.

DP and the AD were committed to mandating academic progress with no off field incidents. Any coach placesctheir future at the mercy of a bunch of kids whose executive function won’t develop until their mid 20s. DP passed on the twins after seeing a hoops game where they refused to follow their coaches directions, he thought they were “uncoachsble. ”. Cuse and UVA continued. Dom would later regret the decision but at the time it was a judgment call that didn’t work out. Point is DP didn’t think it worth the risk. He is very careful in screening potential players for character given the damage a bad decision could produce. Recall the dust up when a player told his mom about a hazing ritual that stretched back at least 60 years. Daniels wanted to cancel the season and was only stopped by the support the program had. He was not happy to lose. He has a long memory.

Toomey is also very careful on this issue. Had the player called DP the first thing he would have done is called Toomey to get his input. If there was an issue Toomey would have told him. If there was that kind of issue DP would have passed. Even if there were not he probably would have passed by virtue of potential harm to team chemistry. In the event it would also have been run past the team.

Desko would also have talked to Toomey. Cuse has a program for Indians they have used to fund players off the Rez. There is still a perceived risk to players off the Rez. Cuse could not get the Thompsons in. Albany stepped in and did. It’s scary what Cuse might have accomplished with the Thompsons

A friend of mine from the Rez who was an AA at Cuse has been trying to get Indians to look past Cuse to other schools for their education. He described the risk to that as the problem of being socially accepted and feeling out of place.

Based on what's been publicly reported, by IL and elsewhere, and what's been stated on this on other boards, I don't think it's at all unreasonable or irresponsible to believe that Hopkins was in on trying to get Scanlan to come. If you disagree, OC, that's fine, but please stop with the moral superiority. I might also suggest that it's not unreasonable to believe that DP was in a very different position 10 years ago that he was 18 months ago. He had to have known he was on the hot seat and thus might have been more willing to take risks for a kid perceived to be a star, even if there were some character concerns. All that said, my simple point is this - the lacrosse community is a very small and everyone talks - it's hard to believe that Scanlan didn't have something of a reputation within that community long ago, especially given the stench around his exit from Loyola (based largely on his own quoted comments).

I'll piggy back off this - he's been quoted as saying he didn't fit in with his teammates, they excluded him from bonding moments, they only look out for themselves and making money. They're not blue collar etc etc. Which by all accounts from sources close to the program is simply not true. Some poster have decided to point out the HS that the Loyola players come from, the staff doesn't care how affluent the neighborhood is. They make their kids work hard and earn playing time. That staff does NOT play favorites despite how good a player performs during games.

Regarding his syracuse teammates, he said he feels at home, he felt welcomed as soon as he was added to the team groupchat once he committed to transferring. Fast forward 1 year, he's alienated, ostracized due to his actions. If you check twitter theres this one adamant defender of Scanlan thats trying to spin this into a race/politics issue regarding the suspension and DV. Now if anything in that article is remotely true, is it really the teammates fault in both schools, or is it more internal/personal with him

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

At any rate, the streak would have ended this season anyway, sadly.

No - the streak woud have ended in 2020

Wrong. There were no 2020 playoffs at all, so there were no playoffs missed and no streaks broken.

[51percentcorn]

I meant the fact that the team never would have made the tournament if there had been one - I was around last year - notice the use of the phrase "would have"

Also I was in the stands in 2013 for virtually every game when they had 8 home games and a game at M&T against UVA. The suspensions were ultimately a distraction and a bad decision - Petro clearly managed the roster to keep the streak alive - go look at the box scores - everybody played against Albany and everybody played against Loyola - nobody asked Hopkins to score 13 goals total in those 2 games. It wasn't until ARMY when it was pretty clear the streak was over that Durkin sat (and Reilly too I think)
He should have sent the freshmen out against Siena (probably not realistic) or forfeited that game entirely - and gone on from there.

[flalax22]

Bygones.

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I don't at all doubt he and Petro didn't see eye to eye on most things but, again, when you take the team to a Final Four, you get a contract extension. When you largely underperform for the next 5 years, you don't.

We will always disagree on this. Petro was let go more for not seeing eye to eye with Daniels, Shanahan and Baker than for lack of on field success. They see Petro as a mouth breathing lout that doesn’t represent Hopkins very well. They now have a woke and progressive staff. That was the end game.

[HopFan16]

Bygones.

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I don't at all doubt he and Petro didn't see eye to eye on most things but, again, when you take the team to a Final Four, you get a contract extension. When you largely underperform for the next 5 years, you don't.

We will always disagree on this. Petro was let go more for not seeing eye to eye with Daniels, Shanahan and Baker than for lack of on field success. They see Petro as a mouth breathing lout that doesn’t represent Hopkins very well. They now have a woke and progressive staff. That was the end game.

Then why does Daniels sign off on a 5-year extension? I get the optics of firing him after the 2015 miracle run and Huber's tragic death would have been awful. But that's a long time. There's no rule that says contract extensions have to be 5 years. UMass coach got a 2-year extension in 2018, for instance. In fact Daniels signed off on a 4-year extension for Petro after the 2012 season.

If Daniels wanted to push out Petro for non-lacrosse reasons so badly, he had opportunities to set the stage for an eventual ouster. But he sat back and let him stay for more than a decade after arriving at Hopkins as president. I think that's largely because while not up to our standards, the team was still performing objectively well, making the playoffs (almost) every year and an occasional quarterfinal and B1G title. The relatively poor performance in '16, '17, most of '19, and of course '20 is what finally gave him the cover to make the change he really wanted. If we had gone undefeated in the shortened 2020 season, you still think they would have fired him? Not a chance, IMO. Again I'm sure the reasons were primarily not related to lacrosse but the true impetus for letting him go—the thing that actually makes them take action—is losing.

[Sagittarius A*]

I meant the fact that the team never would have made the tournament if there had been one - I was around last year - notice the use of the phrase "would have"

Also I was in the stands in 2013 for virtually every game when they had 8 home games and a game at M&T against UVA. The suspensions were ultimately a distraction and a bad decision - Petro clearly managed the roster to keep the streak alive - go look at the box scores - everybody played against Albany and everybody played against Loyola - nobody asked Hopkins to score 13 goals total in those 2 games. It wasn't until ARMY when it was pretty clear the streak was over that Durkin sat (and Reilly too I think)
He should have sent the freshmen out against Siena (probably not realistic) or forfeited that game entirely - and gone on from there.

Totally agreed. It would have been far better to lose the one game than to have disrupted the entire season. Rolling suspensions had to be the worst possible option.

[steel_hop]

I meant the fact that the team never would have made the tournament if there had been one - I was around last year - notice the use of the phrase "would have"

Also I was in the stands in 2013 for virtually every game when they had 8 home games and a game at M&T against UVA. The suspensions were ultimately a distraction and a bad decision - Petro clearly managed the roster to keep the streak alive - go look at the box scores - everybody played against Albany and everybody played against Loyola - nobody asked Hopkins to score 13 goals total in those 2 games. It wasn't until ARMY when it was pretty clear the streak was over that Durkin sat (and Reilly too I think)
He should have sent the freshmen out against Siena (probably not realistic) or forfeited that game entirely - and gone on from there.

Totally agreed. It would have been far better to lose the one game than to have disrupted the entire season. Rolling suspensions had to be the worst possible option.

Agreed. I know there was some contention on this issue back then but I certainly said back in 2013, you take your lumps for one game and then go from there. The rolling suspensions were dumb because it created discontinuity in the players as to when they were going to miss and it set the example that it was trying to game the punishment.

[flalax22]

Bygones.

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I don't at all doubt he and Petro didn't see eye to eye on most things but, again, when you take the team to a Final Four, you get a contract extension. When you largely underperform for the next 5 years, you don't.

We will always disagree on this. Petro was let go more for not seeing eye to eye with Daniels, Shanahan and Baker than for lack of on field success. They see Petro as a mouth breathing lout that doesn’t represent Hopkins very well. They now have a woke and progressive staff. That was the end game.

Then why does Daniels sign off on a 5-year extension? I get the optics of firing him after the 2015 miracle run and Huber's tragic death would have been awful. But that's a long time. There's no rule that says contract extensions have to be 5 years. UMass coach got a 2-year extension in 2018, for instance. In fact Daniels signed off on a 4-year extension for Petro after the 2012 season.

Because they didn’t have their I’s dotted and T’s crossed. They knew clipping a guy like Petro who was popular with the three alumni who matter would not be easy and would take a coordinated plan. The forced “mentor”, advisory board and Baker reportedly interviewing players regularly to ask “tell me what Coach Petro is like” was all part of it. Petro could have been 6-0 going into the Covid 19 break and he wasn’t getting another contract. I MAYBE concede that a National Championship could have got him a stay of execution but I suspect the offer would have been so insulting he would have told them to find another coach.

[nyjay]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

[HopFan16]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

They don't have much of a chance, but have to root for the Jays at Drexel: Voelker, Durkin, and Boyle.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Bygones.

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I don't at all doubt he and Petro didn't see eye to eye on most things but, again, when you take the team to a Final Four, you get a contract extension. When you largely underperform for the next 5 years, you don't.

We will always disagree on this. Petro was let go more for not seeing eye to eye with Daniels, Shanahan and Baker than for lack of on field success. They see Petro as a mouth breathing lout that doesn’t represent Hopkins very well. They now have a woke and progressive staff. That was the end game.

Then why does Daniels sign off on a 5-year extension? I get the optics of firing him after the 2015 miracle run and Huber's tragic death would have been awful. But that's a long time. There's no rule that says contract extensions have to be 5 years. UMass coach got a 2-year extension in 2018, for instance. In fact Daniels signed off on a 4-year extension for Petro after the 2012 season.

Because they didn’t have their I’s dotted and T’s crossed. They knew clipping a guy like Petro who was popular with the three alumni who matter would not be easy and would take a coordinated plan. The forced “mentor”, advisory board and Baker reportedly interviewing players regularly to ask “tell me what Coach Petro is like” was all part of it. Petro could have been 6-0 going into the Covid 19 break and he wasn’t getting another contract. I MAYBE concede that a National Championship could have got him a stay of execution but I suspect the offer would have been so insulting he would have told them to find another coach.

Calder was still there when the contract was extended.

And Bob Scott was still alive.

[jhu06]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

Who I am rooting for in order
-imminent news that we're in on major transfers or elite Decomitted recruits
-anyone playing terps, cuse, duke, notre dame in that order
-one bid unseeded conference champions
-rutgers
-loyola

I picked rutgers in the poll, Good for the conference and a long suffering fan base to go on a cindarella run.

[HopFan16]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

Who I am rooting for in order
-imminent news that we're in on major transfers or elite Decomitted recruits
-anyone playing terps, cuse, duke, notre dame in that order
-one bid unseeded conference champions
-rutgers
-loyola

I picked rutgers in the poll, Good for the conference and a long suffering fan base to go on a cindarella run.

If Rutgers went on a run, it would make us look very good. I fear that they won't, however. If they manage to get by Lehigh, then they get UNC in round 2. The tallest of orders.

I'm conflicted—I kind of want Maryland/Rutgers to do well to represent the conference but I also...don't like them. A true conundrum.

As always, anyone but Syracuse.

[DocBarrister]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

Who I am rooting for in order
-imminent news that we're in on major transfers or elite Decomitted recruits
-anyone playing terps, cuse, duke, notre dame in that order
-one bid unseeded conference champions
-rutgers
-loyola

I picked rutgers in the poll, Good for the conference and a long suffering fan base to go on a cindarella run.

If Rutgers went on a run, it would make us look very good. I fear that they won't, however. If they manage to get by Lehigh, then they get UNC in round 2. The tallest of orders.

I'm conflicted—I kind of want Maryland/Rutgers to do well to represent the conference but I also...don't like them. A true conundrum.

As always, anyone but Syracuse.

Anyone except Maryland, Syracuse, or Duke would be fine with me.

DocBarrister

[nyjay]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

Who I am rooting for in order
-imminent news that we're in on major transfers or elite Decomitted recruits
-anyone playing terps, cuse, duke, notre dame in that order
-one bid unseeded conference champions
-rutgers
-loyola

I picked rutgers in the poll, Good for the conference and a long suffering fan base to go on a cindarella run.

If Rutgers went on a run, it would make us look very good. I fear that they won't, however. If they manage to get by Lehigh, then they get UNC in round 2. The tallest of orders.

I'm conflicted—I kind of want Maryland/Rutgers to do well to represent the conference but I also...don't like them. A true conundrum.

As always, anyone but Syracuse.

Yes, that is the problem. Not sure about Rutgers/Lehigh. Rutgers isn't going to see the ball much. Sisselberger could go 90% against Rutgers f/o unit. I don't think Lehigh is great, but their specialists are, which gives them a huge advantage.

My usual side-chick, Army, got screwed out of a bid. Usually, we at least have the Ivies, some of whom are tolerable (Yale). I find ND to be the least offensive of the ACC schools. Really don't like Denver (Tierney seems deeply unpleasant, great coach, but not particularly likable). Georgetown, maybe? Hard to get too excited about the AQ types. Vermont?

[44WeWantMore]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

MD and RU are good for our relative standing, but how about Loyola?
- Charles Street
- Peaking
- The False Positive COVID result.

[primitiveskills]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm rooting for both Rutgers and Maryland to make the Final Four, and Maryland to win it. The ACC fanboys, including Quint, have reached a toxic level of sychophancy, largely at the expense of the Big Ten. I would like to shut them up and not have to hear year-after-year about BigTen inferiority. Maryland has the best chance to do that.

[nyjay]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

MD and RU are good for our relative standing, but how about Loyola?
- Charles Street
- Peaking
- The False Positive COVID result.

Toomey seems like a great guy, but can you really root for your little brother?

[nyjay]

Without our beloved Jays not in the field, who's everyone rooting for in the tourney? Hard choice given how many historic rivals we have. I'm leaning ND - Pat Kavanaugh is just such a joy to watch - but am pretty ambivalent.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I'm rooting for both Rutgers and Maryland to make the Final Four, and Maryland to win it. The ACC fanboys, including Quint, have reached a toxic level of sychophancy, largely at the expense of the Big Ten. I would like to shut them up and not have to hear year-after-year about BigTen inferiority. Maryland has the best chance to do that.

I couldn't agree more with the sentiment, but still can't root for the Terps. Unless they're playing Cuse, in which case, I'm happy to paint my face with the MD flag. In any other situation, just can't do it.

[HopFan16]

Back to 2022.

Seems to me that, barring anyone leaving, we've got 6 offensive players who are likely to contribute next year in some order:

1. Epstein
2. Degnon
3. Angelus
4. Peshko
5. Grimes
6. McDermott

That's a pretty solid core, IMO, and well balanced. Two seniors, a junior, three sophomores. Four righties and two lefties. Three 6'4'' dudes, two average sized players, and a smaller speed/quickness dodger.

Still, there is room for more. Generally you have about 10-12 offensive contributors in a year. 3 attackmen, 7-8 middies, maybe an EMO specialist.

If none of the current seniors return, that's at least 4 significant spots open to transfers, next year's freshmen, or current guys waiting in the wings.

Even if DeSimone, Keogh, and Baskin all return (unlikely IMO but we shall see), that should still leave a spot or two for someone new to step in.

Any thoughts on the biggest offensive *need*? Between Degnon, Peshko, and Grimes, I'm not so worried about stretch shooting as I was a few months ago but I suppose you could always use more. A big downhill dodger could help, even though that's not really the type of offense we run anymore. Maybe a crease guy—Peshko has shown some chops there but then you lose him as an iso wing dodger/shooter if he's hanging out primarily on the crease.

Looking at the roster: Raposo and Chauvette seem like the existing players to most likely contribute next year. As far as incoming freshmen go, my guess would be Wong, Teachout, or Phillips but that's a wild guess and should be taken with a grain of salt.