Johns Hopkins 2022

[primitiveskills]

As far as I saw I think WAWA, as a fraternity was disbanded as a going concern at Hopkins. I have no idea if they decided to form a new fraternity but WAWA as Alpha Delta Phi isn't allowed on campus any longer (at least it wasn't from a couple of years ago).

Yup. and here it is.
https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/fsl/chap ... nizations/

Doesn't look like anything has replaced it.

They're not formally recognized, but they still have a house on North Charles and throw parties:

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2 ... 19-cluster

More Scanlan stuff emerging. Glad he didn't end up here. From what I understand, Petro wanted him, he visited Homewood and Hopkins may have been his second choice of transfer.

http://dailyorange.com/2021/05/police-r ... er-issues/

Holy Crap. If half of that stuff is true on Scanlan, he is a piece of work. You certainly can get Yeardley Love vibs from the story.

As someone with a teenage daughter, I hope I give her enough self-confidence and believe in herself to not want to hang out with someone much less date or whatever college kids call today, as the article quotes from the victim's mother "put his hands on her." Because if she didn't end the relationship, I certainly would in a nonviolent way. This isn't meant as a blame the victim type post because I don't want it to come out that way because these things are never easy. This is more of I need to ensure my daughter knows this isn't right.

And while it isn't in this article, there are quotes from Scanlan's father out there where he said this was all a misunderstanding. Nope. Your son is a DB.

One really inexplicable part of this story is that apparently his reinstatement to the team was mandated by a provision of the Title IX act. I understand the concept of "due process", but how does that apply to one's "right" to be part of a lacrosse team in a case where there was a witnessed act of domestic violence? Dispicable.

[steel_hop]

As far as I saw I think WAWA, as a fraternity was disbanded as a going concern at Hopkins. I have no idea if they decided to form a new fraternity but WAWA as Alpha Delta Phi isn't allowed on campus any longer (at least it wasn't from a couple of years ago).

Yup. and here it is.
https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/fsl/chap ... nizations/

Doesn't look like anything has replaced it.

They're not formally recognized, but they still have a house on North Charles and throw parties:

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2 ... 19-cluster

More Scanlan stuff emerging. Glad he didn't end up here. From what I understand, Petro wanted him, he visited Homewood and Hopkins may have been his second choice of transfer.

http://dailyorange.com/2021/05/police-r ... er-issues/

Holy Crap. If half of that stuff is true on Scanlan, he is a piece of work. You certainly can get Yeardley Love vibs from the story.

As someone with a teenage daughter, I hope I give her enough self-confidence and believe in herself to not want to hang out with someone much less date or whatever college kids call today, as the article quotes from the victim's mother "put his hands on her." Because if she didn't end the relationship, I certainly would in a nonviolent way. This isn't meant as a blame the victim type post because I don't want it to come out that way because these things are never easy. This is more of I need to ensure my daughter knows this isn't right.

And while it isn't in this article, there are quotes from Scanlan's father out there where he said this was all a misunderstanding. Nope. Your son is a DB.

One really inexplicable part of this story is that apparently his reinstatement to the team was mandated by a provision of the Title IX act. I understand the concept of "due process", but how does that apply to one's "right" to be part of a lacrosse team in a case where there was a witnessed act of domestic violence? Dispicable.

I think he has due process to not be kicked out of school. I am fine with that. But, playing athletics is a privilege and there is no due process for that. suspension means he doesn't participate in any team activities. I doubt that is protected under Title iX.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

As far as I saw I think WAWA, as a fraternity was disbanded as a going concern at Hopkins. I have no idea if they decided to form a new fraternity but WAWA as Alpha Delta Phi isn't allowed on campus any longer (at least it wasn't from a couple of years ago).

Yup. and here it is.
https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/fsl/chap ... nizations/

Doesn't look like anything has replaced it.

They're not formally recognized, but they still have a house on North Charles and throw parties:

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2 ... 19-cluster

More Scanlan stuff emerging. Glad he didn't end up here. From what I understand, Petro wanted him, he visited Homewood and Hopkins may have been his second choice of transfer.

http://dailyorange.com/2021/05/police-r ... er-issues/

Holy Crap. If half of that stuff is true on Scanlan, he is a piece of work. You certainly can get Yeardley Love vibs from the story.

As someone with a teenage daughter, I hope I give her enough self-confidence and believe in herself to not want to hang out with someone much less date or whatever college kids call today, as the article quotes from the victim's mother "put his hands on her." Because if she didn't end the relationship, I certainly would in a nonviolent way. This isn't meant as a blame the victim type post because I don't want it to come out that way because these things are never easy. This is more of I need to ensure my daughter knows this isn't right.

And while it isn't in this article, there are quotes from Scanlan's father out there where he said this was all a misunderstanding. Nope. Your son is a DB.

LOL. Around these parts, that’s a very cutting put down.

[nyjay]

Hard to imagine that this news about Scanlan being a world-class DB is that much of a surprise to those in the know. The atmospherics when he left Loyola weren't good at all; he clearly didn't come off well. I guess this makes me question Petro's pursuit of the kid - he would have had to have talked to Toomey.

Notwithstanding the fully justified and increased focus on domestic violence issues in the lacrosse community (and not trying to take anything away from the Syracuse team and its captains), but the vehemence of the team's reaction to the reinstatement was surprising to me. I have to imagine that a well liked, well respected teammate would get a little more of the benefit of the doubt, as opposed to the screw this guy, we're not playing with him, treatment Scanlan got from the team. Leads me to believe that he was no one's favorite teammate even before this happened.

[OCanada]

And you know Petro pursued the kid in spite of knowing about some history how? What exactly is this history you are talking about? Too strong knee done histiry about him abd took him anyway.

Petro did not pursue a number of kids with bad histories others did.

[nyjay]

If he didn't great, but there sure seemed to have been discussions around it. If we banned speculation around here, we'd have nothing to talk about.

[44WeWantMore]

As far as I saw I think WAWA, as a fraternity was disbanded as a going concern at Hopkins. I have no idea if they decided to form a new fraternity but WAWA as Alpha Delta Phi isn't allowed on campus any longer (at least it wasn't from a couple of years ago).

Yup. and here it is.
https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/fsl/chap ... nizations/

Doesn't look like anything has replaced it.

They're not formally recognized, but they still have a house on North Charles and throw parties:

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2 ... 19-cluster

More Scanlan stuff emerging. Glad he didn't end up here. From what I understand, Petro, like just about everybody else, wanted him, but JHU was on his short list as he visited Homewood and Hopkins may have been his second choice of transfer.

http://dailyorange.com/2021/05/police-r ... er-issues/

My edit in bold.
And the just about everybody else included a couple of posters here.

Sure, but do you think that any message board posters had any real insight into Scanlan's character? I'm going to say that the number of posters who knew this guy well enough to have been able to predict his capability of committing this horrific act was exactly zero.

My point was that I am not aware of any coach who knew of any issues, nor any posters here who cautioned, "Let's be careful." IL portrayed the hunt as a general scramble. And many of our posters are insiders; well-connected alumni, ex-players, HS coaches, referees, etc.

Edit to add: There is general trouble (as one poster on the old LP board related that Petro avoided the Bratton twins), and there are the current allegations, which are on a different level. It is reasonable for insiders to be aware of general trouble even as they find the specific allegations previously unimaginable.

[OCanada]

If we banned speculation a lot of the BS that gets posted would clear up. Too many post as fact what is pure speculation based on thin gruel at best if not the exercise of bias.

Since I know all three coaches involved I will speculate based on what I know to be their operating styles.

When Petro was hired to replace TS it was not because TS failed to win a title. It was because off field behavior was becoming problematic and threatening to potentially harm the team.

DP and the AD were committed to mandating academic progress with no off field incidents. Any coach placesctheir future at the mercy of a bunch of kids whose executive function won’t develop until their mid 20s. DP passed on the twins after seeing a hoops game where they refused to follow their coaches directions, he thought they were “uncoachsble. ”. Cuse and UVA continued. Dom would later regret the decision but at the time it was a judgment call that didn’t work out. Point is DP didn’t think it worth the risk. He is very careful in screening potential players for character given the damage a bad decision could produce. Recall the dust up when a player told his mom about a hazing ritual that stretched back at least 60 years. Daniels wanted to cancel the season and was only stopped by the support the program had. He was not happy to lose. He has a long memory.

Toomey is also very careful on this issue. Had the player called DP the first thing he would have done is called Toomey to get his input. If there was an issue Toomey would have told him. If there was that kind of issue DP would have passed. Even if there were not he probably would have passed by virtue of potential harm to team chemistry. In the event it would also have been run past the team.

Desko would also have talked to Toomey. Cuse has a program for Indians they have used to fund players off the Rez. There is still a perceived risk to players off the Rez. Cuse could not get the Thompsons in. Albany stepped in and did. It’s scary what Cuse might have accomplished with the Thompsons

A friend of mine from the Rez who was an AA at Cuse has been trying to get Indians to look past Cuse to other schools for their education. He described the risk to that as the problem of being socially accepted and feeling out of place.

[steel_hop]

When John Haus was hired to replace TS it was not because TS failed to win a title. It was because off field behavior was becoming problematic and threatening to potentially harm the team.

I know some people don't like their internal posts edit for some odd reason but just to poke everyone's memory Haus was hired to replace Seaman.

When Haus left for UNC, I'm sure Petro was given the same direction that he should try to keep the off field incidents to a minimum. Something much harder to do in this day and age - and by that I mean everyone records everything so what happened 30 years ago (even if somewhat innocuous) could be washed over but with a picture or video it is much harder even if it is generally harmless.

[Sagittarius A*]

Recall the dust up when a player told his mom about a hazing ritual that stretched back at least 60 years. Daniels wanted to cancel the season and was only stopped by the support the program had. He was not happy to lose. He has a long memory.

What exactly was the hazing ritual that ended up breaking our playoff streak?

[51percentcorn]

All I want to know is who did the spell check on OC's last post? It was multiple paragraphs and did not look like hieroglyphics.

The speculation on Scanlon and Petro obviously can be attributed to the IL article - Where Scanlon said something about needing a more "blue collar atmosphere" and Cuse/UVA/Hopkins/Maryland/Cornell were mentioned as his "list". Who knows whether the other schools - besides Syracuse - reciprocated.

As far as the Brattons, I actually was present as a member of the former staff was recounting that Vernon Manuel played a big role in Dave stepping away from the twins.

[DMac]

As someone with a teenage daughter, I hope I give her enough self-confidence and believe in herself to not want to hang out with someone much less date or whatever college kids call today, as the article quotes from the victim's mother "put his hands on her." Because if she didn't end the relationship, I certainly would in a nonviolent way. This isn't meant as a blame the victim type post because I don't want it to come out that way because these things are never easy. This is more of I need to ensure my daughter knows this isn't right.

And while it isn't in this article, there are quotes from Scanlan's father out there where he said this was all a misunderstanding. Nope. Your son is a DB.

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, steel_hop, don't you think for one second that the suggestion of her ending the relationship early on is anything short of victim bashing and that the wrath of hell won't come upon you for even having a fleeting thought of the like. Don't ever suggest that there are possibly two, or maybe even three, sides to a story about a fiery couple both of whom seemed to come back for more and more. Don't suggest that the helpless, dainty flower (well, unless she's on a lacrosse field where she'd be considered a tough and gritty competitor) being the first throw punches on more than one occasion is anything less than a victim either, and whatever you do, don't ever consider mentioning that being drunk to the point that you're praying to the porcelain god might fog the memory a bit either, that doesn't happen to victims.
In all sincerity, please do tell your daughter to run away from any man the first time he shows signs of violent tendencies or who is treating her poorly. I think most of us know the likelihood of that changing is slim while the probability of it escalating to the kind of relationship we're seeing here is more than likely. It's absolutely awful.
JFTR, I agree that Scanlan is a DB and I have felt that way long before this incident. Have seen him on a couple of occasions and was left with the impression that he's a smart asz little punk who lacks maturity and character. I'm not at all surprised that his teammates walked away from him and good on them for that. I hope he gets his due and can see what kind of damage he's done not only to himself and his "girlfriend" but to a whole lot of other people as well. That said there are still two sides to this story and neither one of them conducted themselves the way any of us would hope our children would conduct themselves...male or female.

[51percentcorn]

Recall the dust up when a player told his mom about a hazing ritual that stretched back at least 60 years. Daniels wanted to cancel the season and was only stopped by the support the program had. He was not happy to lose. He has a long memory.

What exactly was the hazing ritual that ended up breaking our playoff streak?

OC - are you suggesting Petro's dismissal stretches back to the 2013 incident? I know a family from that team so I was told what happened. In the grand scheme of what fraternities and athletic teams used to do - it wasn't bad. One of my significant achievements freshmen year at Hopkins - being still a teenager - was figuring out how to get a car, get an ABC map and help rescue all my friends that had been kidnapped by a frat and dropped off on some rural road north of town I think - no cell phones no GPS nothing. Scavenger hunt of the highest magnitude.

Sag - Team dinner off campus before season starts - incoming freshmen are "hazed" - that's why no freshmen were ever part of the rolling suspensions. Given this was 2013 and there was a focus on fraternity behavior and hazing incidents - DP probably should have had the foresight to cancel that part of the evening. I know Mrs. Black has taken some scorn on Laxpower and this web-site but she was looking out for her child.

[jhu06]

-initiation rituals of groups on campus probably go back to the founding of the university and many of the school leaders who suspended the kids probably engaged in those kinds of things as students themselves. it was a ridiculous over reaction. at the same time the school was coming down on the 2013 team for behaviors they judged inconsistent with university values they were allowing Petro to pursue 8th graders without hs transcripts. Makes sense.
-bloomberg dropped another $150 million yesterday into the university coffers so the school can help develop and admit HBCU/UMBC folks into STEM grad programs. It doesn't seem like a lot of scratch compared to the $ he's given but loyola maryland who we've struggled with for most of the last decade only has $240 million in their entire endowment.
-cuse doesn't really affect 2022 hop unless it results in deskos departure and the opportunity to add some kids who want fresh starts.

[HopFan16]

Bygones.

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I don't at all doubt he and Petro didn't see eye to eye on most things but, again, when you take the team to a Final Four, you get a contract extension. When you largely underperform for the next 5 years, you don't.

That's why I think Desko is in trouble if Cuse doesn't win this weekend. They can put up with the off-field stuff if the team is winning. If it's not, then all the extracurriculars are not worth dealing with and it's time for a culture change. That's not unique to lacrosse.

[Gretchen]

Any truth about the rumors of Epstein transferring? Doesn't seem believable but... Possible. Any insider info?

[Sagittarius A*]

OC - are you suggesting Petro's dismissal stretches back to the 2013 incident? I know a family from that team so I was told what happened. In the grand scheme of what fraternities and athletic teams used to do - it wasn't bad. One of my significant achievements freshmen year at Hopkins - being still a teenager - was figuring out how to get a car, get an ABC map and help rescue all my friends that had been kidnapped by a frat and dropped off on some rural road north of town I think - no cell phones no GPS nothing. Scavenger hunt of the highest magnitude.

Sag - Team dinner off campus before season starts - incoming freshmen are "hazed" - that's why no freshmen were ever part of the rolling suspensions. Given this was 2013 and there was a focus on fraternity behavior and hazing incidents - DP probably should have had the foresight to cancel that part of the evening. I know Mrs. Black has taken some scorn on Laxpower and this web-site but she was looking out for her child.

I really can't blame her for wanting to put an end to that particular "ritual" from back in the day.
I'm just wondering if there was a better way to address the issue than wrecking the season with rolling suspensions that ended the nationally recognized playoff streak.
At any rate, the streak would have ended this season anyway, sadly.

[51percentcorn]

Petro's contract was renewed in 2015, two years after the 2013 suspensions, for another 5 years through 2020. If Daniels wasn't on board with that he probably could have stopped it. I

Maybe so but 2015 had two significant developments - first the horrible tragedy of Jeremy Huber - where - as demonstrated by the Hubers family's loyalty to the team and Petro illustrates - Petro's actions exhibited ultimate class and were above reproach. Much more important than any lacrosse win. His finest hour as Winston would say.
Second - they reached the Final Four on the heels of a 2014 quarters appearance where they had the eventual national champs sitting up and taking notice after falling behind 6-0 and cutting it to 12-10 and 14-11. That would have been horrible optics. No one could have forseen the Tinney suspension (well some could have) - the gazillion ACLs that decimated the 2016 team.

initiation rituals of groups on campus probably go back to the founding of the university and many of the school leaders who suspended the kids probably engaged in those kinds of things as students themselves. it was a ridiculous over reaction.

'06 - this is where you make my blood boil. If all they did was make the freshmen sing silly songs - fine - who cares. The parent in question would not have raised the issue if that is all that happened. People have DIED as a result of initiation rituals so it is 1000% irrelevant what went before. Unlike the Huber tragedy - this was not Petro's finest hour

[51percentcorn]

At any rate, the streak would have ended this season anyway, sadly.

No - the streak woud have ended in 2020

[nyjay]

If we banned speculation a lot of the BS that gets posted would clear up. Too many post as fact what is pure speculation based on thin gruel at best if not the exercise of bias.

Since I know all three coaches involved I will speculate based on what I know to be their operating styles.

When Petro was hired to replace TS it was not because TS failed to win a title. It was because off field behavior was becoming problematic and threatening to potentially harm the team.

DP and the AD were committed to mandating academic progress with no off field incidents. Any coach placesctheir future at the mercy of a bunch of kids whose executive function won’t develop until their mid 20s. DP passed on the twins after seeing a hoops game where they refused to follow their coaches directions, he thought they were “uncoachsble. ”. Cuse and UVA continued. Dom would later regret the decision but at the time it was a judgment call that didn’t work out. Point is DP didn’t think it worth the risk. He is very careful in screening potential players for character given the damage a bad decision could produce. Recall the dust up when a player told his mom about a hazing ritual that stretched back at least 60 years. Daniels wanted to cancel the season and was only stopped by the support the program had. He was not happy to lose. He has a long memory.

Toomey is also very careful on this issue. Had the player called DP the first thing he would have done is called Toomey to get his input. If there was an issue Toomey would have told him. If there was that kind of issue DP would have passed. Even if there were not he probably would have passed by virtue of potential harm to team chemistry. In the event it would also have been run past the team.

Desko would also have talked to Toomey. Cuse has a program for Indians they have used to fund players off the Rez. There is still a perceived risk to players off the Rez. Cuse could not get the Thompsons in. Albany stepped in and did. It’s scary what Cuse might have accomplished with the Thompsons

A friend of mine from the Rez who was an AA at Cuse has been trying to get Indians to look past Cuse to other schools for their education. He described the risk to that as the problem of being socially accepted and feeling out of place.

Based on what's been publicly reported, by IL and elsewhere, and what's been stated on this on other boards, I don't think it's at all unreasonable or irresponsible to believe that Hopkins was in on trying to get Scanlan to come. If you disagree, OC, that's fine, but please stop with the moral superiority. I might also suggest that it's not unreasonable to believe that DP was in a very different position 10 years ago that he was 18 months ago. He had to have known he was on the hot seat and thus might have been more willing to take risks for a kid perceived to be a star, even if there were some character concerns. All that said, my simple point is this - the lacrosse community is a very small and everyone talks - it's hard to believe that Scanlan didn't have something of a reputation within that community long ago, especially given the stench around his exit from Loyola (based largely on his own quoted comments).