2021 NCAA Tournament

[DU-fan]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

It would be great to see Rutgers, Georgetown, Maryland, and Denver in the final four. I will would be rooting for them.

Complain as you might about the bracket, I think the committee set this up pretty well for the ACC / B1G / BE rivalries. Sorry Patriot league fans.

It will be fun couple weekends.

[Farfromgeneva]

To my best recollection that OOC has been brought up by non Big Ten advocates in response to boastful but counterfactual statements about how good their conference is and it's not fair that the biased ACC media is helping the conference teams get some type of advantage through perception come playoff time. To wit it is reasonable to say "hey, cool you think you are good but top to bottom you haven't looked so good and you're playing an inbred schedule. We on the other hand also are sort of beating each other up but in a cumulative 35 non conference games we demonstrated our excellence in the broader universe of D1 college lacrosse." I've seen some BigTen advocates bring it up and act like it's been thrown in their face like victims but I haven't seen that as this definitive slam dunk case closed piece of evidence used by these folks in rebuttal to a lot of chest thumping and maligning of everyoen else by these other folks.

And then they double down and say things that get circular or just repetitive but still have zero evidence of theri excellence out of conference. This is no ones fault but their own membership and leadership which a few MD folks have acknowledged.

[Farfromgeneva]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

It would be great to see Rutgers, Georgetown, Maryland, and Denver in the final four. I will would be rooting for them.

It will be fun couple weekends.

With the Ivies out somebody has to play the heel role. Kinda like Hulk Hogan's turn in the WCW, though that may be a bit on the nose between some of the stories over the years at Duke, UVA and Syracuse...

[NYterp09]

It’s just seeding. MD is going to get a 2 or 3 so they can split Duke and UNC I would be pretty sure of so who cares between 2 & 3? Notre Dame is probably going to be 4 so you’re looking at the top 4 seeds being three ACC teams and MD. Kind of doesn’t matter. That 5 seed could be valuable vs the 6 seed in Rd 1 opponent, less because of the challenge of winning that game for a 5 or 6 but rather the impact of a relatively tougher vs slightly easier matchup in further rounds form being banged up or a little more spent in a short one and done tourney.

There’s no chance the committee is going to care about splitting up Duke and UNC in a potential SEMIFINAL matchup. Are you serious? Their job isn’t to try and arrange a championship matchup, and as you say 3 of the top 4 (probably 4 of the top 5) will all be ACC so there’s no way to avoid a potential semifinal conflict. It’s one thing to try and avoid conference matchups when slotting in the unseeded teams, but the top seed isn’t picked based off of that nonsense.

Interesting. I missed it but did MD get the 1 seed?

Interesting. I missed the part where the committee said they picked the seeds based off of conference matchups...but please continue to be as petty as possible about it...

[molo]

Until they start to play each other, who really knows how the Terps stack up versus the ACC? No need to complain about the draw, simply follow the advice of Al Davis.

[Farfromgeneva]

That’s been my point the entire time

[flyerfan17]

For all the lacrosse is reaching and played well in so many different places talk, the D1 game seems to pretty much stay in the same place. Same teams with a chance to win every year, pretty small circle if you ask me. Seems even smaller without the Ivy

[Farfromgeneva]

And then they still cry and whine and look in each other’s pockets.

[Lax Mouse]

At the end of the day, the committee did as well as possible with the inclusion of teams as they could. It’s when you dive into their methodology and seeding that the issues come out.

I would’ve had Army, Loyola, and Rutgers as the last three teams in the discussion for the final two spots. Army vs Loyola was clearly a game with huge implications, and while Army had an early season win over an unprepared Cuse team (and Loyola), when you’re a bubble team playing another bubble team in your conference tournament, it’d be wise to take care of business. To me, the final spot would’ve been Army vs Rutgers. You could go either way here: Army had the better wins. Both had a troubling loss (Navy and JHU). At the end of the day it seems like the committee didn’t want to punish a Big 10 team for its scheduling limitations, and for whatever subjective reason viewed Rutgers as a more dangerous team than Army. In a normal year I think, based off of resumes, that Army would be the clear favorite between the two, but trying to account for Big 10 schedule limitations was a factor, right or wrong, that gave the Scarlet Knights a bump. (All of this is really moot since the committee explained the last spot was between Army and SU, but as I explain below, that really makes little sense).

Ultimately, it’s pretty hard to definitively argue that any of the teams in the field should’ve been excluded and any on the outside should’ve been brought in. The bigger issue is the inconsistency through which teams were seeded and the disparate ways in which “eye test” and SOS were used. It seems like they tried pretty hard to do the best they could, but in the process of finding a middle ground, were unable to find and articulate a clear methodology.

Even factoring in the higher level of subjectivity used by the committee, it’s apparent that the subjectivity was inconsistent at best. If you told me going into the night that UMD would be a #3 seed, I’d have said that was bad news for Rutgers. There’s not much separating UNC and Duke, so it always made sense that they’d be 1 and 2 or 2 and 3. To me, the fact they went 1 and 2 would be an indication that the committee put an emphasis on SOS and teams that were able to challenge themselves through the season and get quality wins. Although it wasn’t Rutgers’ fault, the fact remains that they did not beat a team with a winning record and, of the teams on the bubble (RU, SU, Loyola, Army), had arguably the worst loss of the bunch to an improving but comparably unimpressive (over the course of the season) Blue Jay squad (Loyola’s loss to Towson is also in the conversation). To drop MD to #3 but then reward an RU squad with essentially an 8/9 matchup was a headscratcher.

ND at #6 with three losses (by a combined 4 goals) to 3 of the top 4 seeds was also puzzling. Outside of the ACC, their SOS was a little lighter, but it was no worse than Georgetown’s, and their ACC games should’ve given them a bump. I get the desire for a balanced bracket from conference teams, but that’s not the primary goal in seeding 1-8. Despite the ire of some, the ACC has indisputably been the top conference from top to bottom this year. Anything can be proven or disproven in the tournament. But watching games throughout this season from all conferences, there’s little doubt at this point.

The seeding of Lehigh, Rutgers, SU, Denver, and Loyola was also a bit of a surprise. With the committee putting Georgetown at #5 over ND, the surprise of Denver being #7 dissipated a bit; they clearly had a high opinion of the two Big East foes. The methodology being used would’ve indicated Rutgers being the lowest “unseeded” bubble team (less impressive opponents and worst loss of the bunch). I would’ve anticipated them in the Georgetown matchup. SU seems to be everyone’s favorite to have excluded, but that objectively makes little sense and would’ve been even more incongruous with the rest of the decisions. Cuse had the SOS and the two best wins of the bunch. The committee claimed to just look at Ws/Ls and not the margin. Even if they looked at the margin, you can’t look at the bad without the good, and Cuse beat UVA by a combined 12 goals. More interesting is them being in the conversation as one of the last in. They played a tough schedule, and comparing them to Denver (who snagged a 7 seed), they both lost close games to Duke and got blown out by UNC. The only difference is that Cuse played a stronger schedule the rest of the season and suffered a bit for it. Comparing them to Rutgers, I have a tough time imagining that RU would’ve done any better in the ACC or that Cuse would’ve done worse than RU in the Big Ten. Watching the two teams, they’re pretty comparable – Cuse just had the edge with the schedule (and obviously a higher than zero number of wins against teams with winning records). Lehigh is a nice story at #8, but their best wins are early season triumphs over Loyola and Army. Again, UMD dropped a bit for not having quite the same schedule as ACC teams, but both RU and Lehigh were bumped up in spite of it.

In any sense, it looks like we’ve got some really exciting games on the slate for this upcoming weekend, and it’s nice to have a championship tournament again.

[HooDat]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

[FMUBart]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

I agree, with Maryland being the only obvious hiccup..

[DU-fan]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

I agree, with Maryland being the only obvious hiccup..

People may rant about the bracket. But, come this weekend, I think everyone will love the bracket. We have great match ups. The match ups are more important than arguing about #3 vs. #1 or #6 vs. #4.

If you are rooting for the ACC, B1G, BE, or Patriot league, this will be fun, or depressing. I am tired of watching the ACC head to head games and listening to the ACC biased media gush about their favorite ACC teams.

Above all, I am hoping for great games and objective lacrosse knowledgable play by play and commentary.

If the ACC has 4 teams in the final four, it will be well earned and well deserved.

[calourie]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

I seriously doubt we will have an all ACC final four. I think some in here are mesmerized by the televised overexposure to the fun up and down style that goes on in the ACC accompanied by the "best in the college game" player comments from Carc and Anish to think an all ACC final is as good as guaranteed, but I look at the two close games a team like High Point played against UNC and UVA (though they got blown out in two others against UNC [again] and Duke) and it tells me that on an off day any of the ACCs are vulnerable, especially against any of the 5 or 6 other non ACCs in the tournament who appear to be more dangerous than HPU (Maryland, Georgetown, Denver, Lehigh, Rutgers and even Drexel included). ACC better buckle up and be prepared for styles and players with whom they are impactfully unfamiliar if they want to come close to the expectation being expressed.

[lorin]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

I seriously doubt we will have an all ACC final four. I think some in here are mesmerized by the televised overexposure to the fun up and down style that goes on in the ACC accompanied by the "best in the college game" player comments from Carc and Anish to think an all ACC final is as good as guaranteed, but I look at the two close games a team like High Point played against UNC and UVA (though they got blown out in two others against UNC [again] and Duke) and it tells me that on an off day any of the ACCs are vulnerable, especially against any of the 5 or 6 other non ACCs in the tournament who appear to be more dangerous than HPU (Maryland, Georgetown, Denver, Lehigh, Rutgers and even Drexel included). ACC better buckle up and be prepared for styles and players with whom they are impactfully unfamiliar if they want to come close to the expectation being expressed.

Rutgers should be very happy big 10 decided in conference games only, outside of conference in 2019 5 and 4 , 2020 2 and 4.

[wgdsr]

This feels like the ACC against the rest of the NCAA. Curious what the real odds are an all ACC final four.

I look at the bracket and I think an All-ACC final four is more likely than not.

...let the outrage begin....

I seriously doubt we will have an all ACC final four. I think some in here are mesmerized by the televised overexposure to the fun up and down style that goes on in the ACC accompanied by the "best in the college game" player comments from Carc and Anish to think an all ACC final is as good as guaranteed, but I look at the two close games a team like High Point played against UNC and UVA (though they got blown out in two others against UNC [again] and Duke) and it tells me that on an off day any of the ACCs are vulnerable, especially against any of the 5 or 6 other non ACCs in the tournament who appear to be more dangerous than HPU (Maryland, Georgetown, Denver, Lehigh, Rutgers and even Drexel included). ACC better buckle up and be prepared for styles and players with whom they are impactfully unfamiliar if they want to come close to the expectation being expressed.

might only be a little more possible given a top ivy or 2 would normally be a candidate to win games. of course, that helps all legitimate threats, too.

and it's never happened before, so the odds certainly are against. well against.

influenced by chowderheads and overexposure, though? sounds like a bit of a stretch. i like uvm, fun to watch. just like the acc?

[DMac]

On an "off day" any team from any conference is vulnerable, you don't want to hang your hat on that for a way to beat a team though. Doubt you'll get any disagreement on the Carc-Anish show, hell, Carc is still talking about the first line middies on Cuse as the best in the country. I think it's kind of nuts to not recognize the ACC as being a mighty tough conference though, and I do believe more so than the others this year. The entire season comes with an asterisk too, a season of poor decisions, indecision, wild guessing, and patchwork. A big fustercluck some might say.

[AreaLax]

Have seen this petition on twitter about the NCAA limiting roster size for the tournament. Has anyone heard what the limits are for the teams? I always thought there were traveling limits

https://twitter.com/jvanraaphorst/statu ... 88676?s=12

[wgdsr]

Have seen this petition on twitter about the NCAA limiting roster size for the tournament. Has anyone heard what the limits are for the teams? I always thought there were traveling limits

https://twitter.com/jvanraaphorst/statu ... 88676?s=12

saw 3rd person roster size is 32 this year. way back in the day, the number was in the low-to-mid 30s. not sure if it ever changed.

edit to add: here's a better answer, courtesy of the indomitable '06 in the hop thread:
"NCAA Limits Teams to 45 on the Bench, Sparking Tough Conversations, Fan Outcry https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tcry/57899

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have seen this petition on twitter about the NCAA limiting roster size for the tournament. Has anyone heard what the limits are for the teams? I always thought there were traveling limits

https://twitter.com/jvanraaphorst/statu ... 88676?s=12

saw 3rd person roster size is 32 this year. way back in the day, the number was in the low-to-mid 30s. not sure if it ever changed.

edit to add: here's a better answer, courtesy of the indomitable '06 in the hop thread:
"NCAA Limits Teams to 45 on the Bench, Sparking Tough Conversations, Fan Outcry https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tcry/57899

Thanks for posting that link! I traveled to an NCAA tournament game as a sophomore and practiced but didn’t suit up for the game. I know for a fact my parents were not upset. Not sure my parents even knew we were even playing that weekend!

[wgdsr]

Have seen this petition on twitter about the NCAA limiting roster size for the tournament. Has anyone heard what the limits are for the teams? I always thought there were traveling limits

https://twitter.com/jvanraaphorst/statu ... 88676?s=12

saw 3rd person roster size is 32 this year. way back in the day, the number was in the low-to-mid 30s. not sure if it ever changed.

edit to add: here's a better answer, courtesy of the indomitable '06 in the hop thread:
"NCAA Limits Teams to 45 on the Bench, Sparking Tough Conversations, Fan Outcry https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tcry/57899

Thanks for posting that link! I traveled to an NCAA tournament game as a sophomore and practiced but didn’t suit up for the game. I know for a fact my parents were not upset. Not sure my parents even knew we were even playing that weekend!

lmao