Progressive Ideology

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NattyBohChamps04
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

lagerhead wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:33 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:11 pm I should add that the Fed takes what they giveth as they’ve pushed many operating and permanent obligations onto states over the past two decades.
My state can’t survive without SALT, I loathe that.
Your state can't survive without state and city/county taxes? :lol: That's quite the statement to unpack.

So you want the federal government to run everything in your state and city/county? Or do you just want everything privatized top-down? Or do you mean SALT deductions from federal taxes?
D3 Fan
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:17 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by D3 Fan »

Natty,

I've read laxpower for years and fanlax since inception. I find people very reasonable when I ask questions and I enjoy reading all sides of a debate. Sometimes the debates get stilted in one direction so I occasionally ask questions from another perspective to get more feedback on that particular angle. Never had a dust up with anyone. No plans to either, it's an internet chatroom with a bunch of people whose opinions I have come to greatly appreciate and respect, regardless of how different their views may be from mine.

I didn't ask a loaded question via a one-sided perspective to confirm a preconceived bias. But clearly you made a preconceived judgment against me about what you think I believe about this topic, which I find amusing since I actually don't hold that belief. I just wanted to understand the "public policy" aspect. I already knew the tax answer but I wanted to know what's the public policy preference "behind the scenes" that put such laws into place. Others answered my question, which is all I wanted.

No hard feelings.
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

No hard feelings.

But seriously, you don't feel any of your wording is extremely loaded?
If someone pays all of their required taxes throughout the course of their life and has something left over to pass on to their children (or whoever), then why does the Government believe they are entitled to more of that money upon death? i.e., what's the underlying "public policy" reasoning for it? Unjust enrichment of the next generation thereby creating generational disparities that carry on into the future, perhaps?
First off, very few people who can afford a decent accountant are paying the intended tax rate. Loopholes upon loopholes. The very rich individuals and very rich companies are definitely not paying the same tax rate of the rest of us. Just look at public filings. My employees pay more taxes than me and my company. All legal. No one worth a chunk of change is paying "required taxes" whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. $0? My required taxes according to my accountant have been close to $0 the past 5 years.

You then say the government believes they're entitled to more money? Why use that word and phrasing, "entitled"? Is some rich kid entitled to inheriting millions of dollars tax free for doing absolutely jack and squat just because their dad died?

You then go on to use words like unjust enrichment. We're at the lowest tax rate in a VERY long time. Do you want your fellow Americans, your military folks, your engineers, your scientists, doctors, and more to get a good education, and to be able to see a doctor when they're sick, or do you just want the rich to be able to afford those things?

A very small tax on the unearned income of the 0.01% only after 5M-10M after a parent's death isn't doing anything to disrupt generational disparities it's just magnifying it. Why not use those words? Any semi-intelligent 0.01 percenter has already transferred a good chunk of their wealth before death anyway.

If you're a 0.01 percenter and haven't given your kids hundreds of thousands or millions tax free in direct and indirect cash before your death, you're an idiot or you realize your kids don't deserve it for one reason or another.

The problem is you don't realize you're already starting from a very biased position, or again the simpler explanation is that you're just being disingenuous. Your posts echo that again and again.

I'm just calling a spade a spade.
lagerhead
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by lagerhead »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:52 pm
lagerhead wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:33 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:11 pm I should add that the Fed takes what they giveth as they’ve pushed many operating and permanent obligations onto states over the past two decades.
My state can’t survive without SALT, I loathe that.
Your state can't survive without state and city/county taxes? :lol: That's quite the statement to unpack.

So you want the federal government to run everything in your state and city/county? Or do you just want everything privatized top-down? Or do you mean SALT deductions from federal taxes?
SALT deductions on your fed returns.
D3 Fan
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:17 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by D3 Fan »

Never said I was opposed to the inheritance tax, I merely wanted to know why it was their place to tax the money at all. From a public policy standpoint, unjustly enriching the next generation is seen in some circles as problematic and may serve as a disincentive for that generation to work hard. Interesting (separate) discussion.

Never said I was against paying taxes to fund healthcare, military, education. Never asked about tax rates either. Only topic I inquired about was inheritance tax. Now, if I had said I am opposed to all taxes, then I could see that argument being opened up to charges that I don't want "lesser" off people to have education, healthcare, etc. But, since I never said that...all I can offer is that I don't think the singular issue of the inheritance tax creates enough revenue to materially fund the Govt, hence whether this tax exists or not, the Govt would likely be in a similar financial capacity to continue funding those other (beneficial) programs.
ggait
Posts: 4436
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by ggait »

Never said I was opposed to the inheritance tax, I merely wanted to know why it was their place to tax the money at all. From a public policy standpoint, unjustly enriching the next generation is seen in some circles as problematic and may serve as a disincentive for that generation to work hard. Interesting (separate) discussion.
Patrician Teddy Roosevelt was the father of the inheritance tax. TR viewed the inheritance tax as a moral imperative (along with trust busting and the graduated income tax) to fight the ills of Gilded Age dynastic fortunes and the idle wealthy elite class that would be enabled by massive inherited wealth. Basically, he thought those things were un-American.

The inheritance tax also, at the time, had a much stronger legal/constitutional footing than the proposed federal income tax. Since the ability to inherit property has always been a creature of statute and case law and subject to significant change over time. Primogeniture used to be the law, then the law was changed from that. So from a legal point of view (in contrast to some talking points thrown around by right wingers), an inheritance tax is a legal no-brainer.

We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.

The inheritance tax, however, is both a far better method of taxation, and far more important for the purpose of having the fortunes of the country bear in proportion to their increase in size a corresponding increase and burden of taxation. The Government has the absolute right to decide as to the terms upon which a man shall receive a bequest or devise from another, and this point in the devolution of property is especially appropriate for the imposition of a tax. Laws imposing such taxes have repeatedly been placed upon the National statute books and as repeatedly declared constitutional by the courts; and these laws contained the progressive principle, that is, after a certain amount is reached the bequest or gift, in life or death, is increasingly burdened and the rate of taxation is increased in proportion to the remoteness of blood of the man receiving the bequest.

A heavy progressive tax upon a very large fortune is in no way such a tax upon thrift or industry as a like would be on a small fortune. No advantage comes either to the country as a whole or to the individuals inheriting the money by permitting the transmission in their entirety of the enormous fortunes which would be affected by such a tax; and as an incident to its function of revenue raising, such a tax would help to preserve a measurable equality of opportunity for the people of the generations growing to manhood. We have not the slightest sympathy with that socialistic idea which would try to put laziness, thriftlessness and inefficiency on a par with industry, thrift and efficiency; which would strive to break up not merely private property, but what is far more important, the home, the chief prop upon which our whole civilization stands. Such a theory, if ever adopted, would mean the ruin of the entire country--a ruin which would bear heaviest upon the weakest, upon those least able to shift for themselves. But proposals for legislation such as this herein advocated are directly opposed to this class of socialistic theories. Our aim is to recognize what Lincoln pointed out: The fact that there are some respects in which men are obviously not equal; but also to insist that there should be an equality of self-respect and of mutual respect, an equality of rights before the law, and at least an approximate equality in the conditions under which each man obtains the chance to show the stuff that is in him when compared to hisfellows.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 1:32 pm
Never said I was opposed to the inheritance tax, I merely wanted to know why it was their place to tax the money at all. From a public policy standpoint, unjustly enriching the next generation is seen in some circles as problematic and may serve as a disincentive for that generation to work hard. Interesting (separate) discussion.
Patrician Teddy Roosevelt was the father of the inheritance tax. TR viewed the inheritance tax as a moral imperative (along with trust busting and the graduated income tax) to fight the ills of Gilded Age dynastic fortunes and the idle wealthy elite class that would be enabled by massive inherited wealth. Basically, he thought those things were un-American.

The inheritance tax also, at the time, had a much stronger legal/constitutional footing than the proposed federal income tax. Since the ability to inherit property has always been a creature of statute and case law and subject to significant change over time. Primogeniture used to be the law, then the law was changed from that. So from a legal point of view (in contrast to some talking points thrown around by right wingers), an inheritance tax is a legal no-brainer.

We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.

The inheritance tax, however, is both a far better method of taxation, and far more important for the purpose of having the fortunes of the country bear in proportion to their increase in size a corresponding increase and burden of taxation. The Government has the absolute right to decide as to the terms upon which a man shall receive a bequest or devise from another, and this point in the devolution of property is especially appropriate for the imposition of a tax. Laws imposing such taxes have repeatedly been placed upon the National statute books and as repeatedly declared constitutional by the courts; and these laws contained the progressive principle, that is, after a certain amount is reached the bequest or gift, in life or death, is increasingly burdened and the rate of taxation is increased in proportion to the remoteness of blood of the man receiving the bequest.

A heavy progressive tax upon a very large fortune is in no way such a tax upon thrift or industry as a like would be on a small fortune. No advantage comes either to the country as a whole or to the individuals inheriting the money by permitting the transmission in their entirety of the enormous fortunes which would be affected by such a tax; and as an incident to its function of revenue raising, such a tax would help to preserve a measurable equality of opportunity for the people of the generations growing to manhood. We have not the slightest sympathy with that socialistic idea which would try to put laziness, thriftlessness and inefficiency on a par with industry, thrift and efficiency; which would strive to break up not merely private property, but what is far more important, the home, the chief prop upon which our whole civilization stands. Such a theory, if ever adopted, would mean the ruin of the entire country--a ruin which would bear heaviest upon the weakest, upon those least able to shift for themselves. But proposals for legislation such as this herein advocated are directly opposed to this class of socialistic theories. Our aim is to recognize what Lincoln pointed out: The fact that there are some respects in which men are obviously not equal; but also to insist that there should be an equality of self-respect and of mutual respect, an equality of rights before the law, and at least an approximate equality in the conditions under which each man obtains the chance to show the stuff that is in him when compared to hisfellows.





Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
ggait
Posts: 4436
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by ggait »

Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.


Area Colorado lacrosse fan wants America to emulate the morality-challenged Roman Empire of Tiberius, Nero, and Caligula.
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5331
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by PizzaSnake »

Peter Brown wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:04 pm
ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.


Area Colorado lacrosse fan wants America to emulate the morality-challenged Roman Empire of Tiberius, Nero, and Caligula.
“Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing”

— Macbeth
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:04 pm
ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.


Area Colorado lacrosse fan wants America to emulate the morality-challenged Roman Empire of Tiberius, Nero, and Caligula.
“Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing”

— Macbeth


Please wake me when this colostomy writes anything original. So boring. I need respectable opponents. C’mon.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Didn't I drop the second one elsewhere. How is this about progressive ideology?

I will say this, I love Gate's portfolio. Looks like he's got it figured out. Farmland and acreage. 4% of waste management. Got some biotech and other socially critical tech investments including clean energy. He's a smart dude.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:14 pm Didn't I drop the second one elsewhere. How is this about progressive ideology?

I will say this, I love Gate's portfolio. Looks like he's got it figured out. Farmland and acreage. 4% of waste management. Got some biotech and other socially critical tech investments including clean energy. He's a smart dude.



Bill hates Melinda because Melinda became a demented liberal, and Bill isn’t exactly John Birch. He had to kick that yenta to the curb. No one should suffer being married to a screeching liberal.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

Does anyone proudly call themselves a “Democrat”? God help you if you do.

The New York City public school system (100% or more Democratic) has designated Oct. 11 as Italian Heritage Day/Indigenous People’s Day. No more Columbus Day!!!

And few Fanlax libs will see any lunacy...they’ll think this is an ‘equitable result’.

What totally demented buffoonery this party is. 🤡

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2021/05/ ... -some.html
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27129
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.
Very interesting and informative series of posts, ggait.
Thanks, from those of us actually interested in rationale discourse.
Trolls should be ignored.

I thought it was an interesting question when posed, did not assume it to be taking a position, at least not stridently, in either direction.

The question, as I understood it, was what is the policy perspective, today, that favors an inheritance transfer tax, structured as it is, given that the wealth being transferred had already been taxed, at least to some extent (typically)...the presumption being that there needs to be a policy rationale for a tax beyond simply 'we need more money'. Perhaps I didn't understand that correctly, but that was my take. Indeed, one possible policy perspective was posed as a potential response, the "unjust" transfer of overwhelming advantage between generations. I think that's actually correct, our American 'mythology' of a 'equal opportunity' society is belied by intergenerational transfers of massive wealth with the beneficiaries having done nothing more than be born 'lucky'.

We can go much deeper into that mythology and it's, at least IMO, virtuous benefits to the attraction of being an American citizen and the powering of, at least up until now, the world's leading economy.

But massive inheritance wealth transfer is understandably seen as self-defeating to that aspirational mythology, thus this is the policy justification.

On the other hand, there's little doubt that the person generating the wealth accumulation in the first place often does so in large part to indeed transfer whatever advantages they can to their family or other beneficiaries. So, the counter policy rub is to not discourage the creative, risk taking, hard work in the first place, for most people...which is what the exclusions are intended, and do, accomplish.

Interesting discussion.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:56 am
ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.
Very interesting and informative series of posts, ggait.
Thanks, from those of us actually interested in rationale discourse.
Trolls should be ignored.

I thought it was an interesting question when posed, did not assume it to be taking a position, at least not stridently, in either direction.

The question, as I understood it, was what is the policy perspective, today, that favors an inheritance transfer tax, structured as it is, given that the wealth being transferred had already been taxed, at least to some extent (typically)...the presumption being that there needs to be a policy rationale for a tax beyond simply 'we need more money'. Perhaps I didn't understand that correctly, but that was my take. Indeed, one possible policy perspective was posed as a potential response, the "unjust" transfer of overwhelming advantage between generations. I think that's actually correct, our American 'mythology' of a 'equal opportunity' society is belied by intergenerational transfers of massive wealth with the beneficiaries having done nothing more than be born 'lucky'.

We can go much deeper into that mythology and it's, at least IMO, virtuous benefits to the attraction of being an American citizen and the powering of, at least up until now, the world's leading economy.

But massive inheritance wealth transfer is understandably seen as self-defeating to that aspirational mythology, thus this is the policy justification.

On the other hand, there's little doubt that the person generating the wealth accumulation in the first place often does so in large part to indeed transfer whatever advantages they can to their family or other beneficiaries. So, the counter policy rub is to not discourage the creative, risk taking, hard work in the first place, for most people...which is what the exclusions are intended, and do, accomplish.

Interesting discussion.




You just know this dude wants to do away with Columbus Day. :lol: :lol:
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

Speaking of, I thought this story was fascinating.

“HAMPTON FALLS, IA—White liberals gathered in the town of Hampton Falls were shocked and astonished as local black man, accountant, and father of three Michael Sparkton walked right into a DOT office and acquired an ID without any assistance from liberals whatsoever.”


https://babylonbee.com/news/white-liber ... cquires-id


:lol: :lol: :lol:
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5331
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by PizzaSnake »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:56 am
ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.
Very interesting and informative series of posts, ggait.
Thanks, from those of us actually interested in rationale discourse.
Trolls should be ignored.

I thought it was an interesting question when posed, did not assume it to be taking a position, at least not stridently, in either direction.

The question, as I understood it, was what is the policy perspective, today, that favors an inheritance transfer tax, structured as it is, given that the wealth being transferred had already been taxed, at least to some extent (typically)...the presumption being that there needs to be a policy rationale for a tax beyond simply 'we need more money'. Perhaps I didn't understand that correctly, but that was my take. Indeed, one possible policy perspective was posed as a potential response, the "unjust" transfer of overwhelming advantage between generations. I think that's actually correct, our American 'mythology' of a 'equal opportunity' society is belied by intergenerational transfers of massive wealth with the beneficiaries having done nothing more than be born 'lucky'.

We can go much deeper into that mythology and it's, at least IMO, virtuous benefits to the attraction of being an American citizen and the powering of, at least up until now, the world's leading economy.

But massive inheritance wealth transfer is understandably seen as self-defeating to that aspirational mythology, thus this is the policy justification.

On the other hand, there's little doubt that the person generating the wealth accumulation in the first place often does so in large part to indeed transfer whatever advantages they can to their family or other beneficiaries. So, the counter policy rub is to not discourage the creative, risk taking, hard work in the first place, for most people...which is what the exclusions are intended, and do, accomplish.

Interesting discussion.
Most excessive capital accumulations are a function of rule avoidance or manipulation but primarily labor exploitation.

So the mythological ethos is “come here where you have a chance to fork over other humans under the guise of opportunity”?

All the while cheered on by the other exploiters?

Just drop the pretense and call it what it is: a lottery with exceeding poor odds of payout where the prize is a chance to become a real piece of merde.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Progressive Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:56 am
ggait wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm
Death taxes are moral abominations. No one let alone an amorphous government has the right to take your property when you die.

Anyone claiming otherwise is a sanctimonious elitist looozah who couldn’t get a girl in a Kansas City whorehouse.

Thx.
The first inheritance tax was installed by the Egyptians.

Greeks and Romans had them too.

So did medieval Europe.

The first federal inheritance tax in the USA was implemented in 1796 to raise funds to fight Napoleon.

OECD countries with an inheritance tax today include Japan, SK, France, UK, USA, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc. etc.

Petey's absolute dumb ass moronic ignorant trollery is an abomination. And downright embarrassing.

El caiman es muy stupido.
Very interesting and informative series of posts, ggait.
Thanks, from those of us actually interested in rationale discourse.
Trolls should be ignored.

I thought it was an interesting question when posed, did not assume it to be taking a position, at least not stridently, in either direction.

The question, as I understood it, was what is the policy perspective, today, that favors an inheritance transfer tax, structured as it is, given that the wealth being transferred had already been taxed, at least to some extent (typically)...the presumption being that there needs to be a policy rationale for a tax beyond simply 'we need more money'. Perhaps I didn't understand that correctly, but that was my take. Indeed, one possible policy perspective was posed as a potential response, the "unjust" transfer of overwhelming advantage between generations. I think that's actually correct, our American 'mythology' of a 'equal opportunity' society is belied by intergenerational transfers of massive wealth with the beneficiaries having done nothing more than be born 'lucky'.

We can go much deeper into that mythology and it's, at least IMO, virtuous benefits to the attraction of being an American citizen and the powering of, at least up until now, the world's leading economy.

But massive inheritance wealth transfer is understandably seen as self-defeating to that aspirational mythology, thus this is the policy justification.

On the other hand, there's little doubt that the person generating the wealth accumulation in the first place often does so in large part to indeed transfer whatever advantages they can to their family or other beneficiaries. So, the counter policy rub is to not discourage the creative, risk taking, hard work in the first place, for most people...which is what the exclusions are intended, and do, accomplish.

Interesting discussion.
If income tax “Arbitrage” (I hate the term loopholes) wasn’t so prevalent which is a function of both sides, there wouldn’t be nearly the discussion on this tax I think. Since they can’t do it right on the Income side they look to get it on inheritance/transfer side which it’s gotta come from somewhere but I’d rather they’d have done their jobs in the first place and had income/cap gains parity so there was no built in bias to one or the other. On top of it many want the fed to stay loose but that policy has only increased the wealth gap as it’s had greater influence on asset values than income. Between the cap gains reduction under Bush (who many Dems were cool with, the freebie on repatriation was dumb too) and 12yrs of ultra loose monetary policy has created this monster we have today.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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