ACC Tourney

[Laxfan500]

Does anyone else have a chance this year or should we just rename it the Jenny Levy Trophy?

You thought the ND-UNC game would be a UNC blowout and it wasn't, You thought BC would sweep this past weekend (I think ) and that also didn't happen. UNC almost lost to Duke...it was that close. Anything is possible. These teams have off games or the other coaches are more prepared. In a tight game you never know. Plus if the goalie is having a bad day...look out.

[Cletus]

Does anyone else have a chance this year or should we just rename it the Jenny Levy Trophy?

You thought the ND-UNC game would be a UNC blowout and it wasn't, You thought BC would sweep this past weekend (I think ) and that also didn't happen. UNC almost lost to Duke...it was that close. Anything is possible. These teams have off games or the other coaches are more prepared. In a tight game you never know. Plus if the goalie is having a bad day...look out.

Well, that was your first mistake, attaching any validity to my predictions.

So, essentially what you’re saying is the only way North Carolina loses the tournament is if they’re off. It won’t be because a better team beats them.

[seacoaster]

Does anyone else have a chance this year or should we just rename it the Jenny Levy Trophy?

You thought the ND-UNC game would be a UNC blowout and it wasn't, You thought BC would sweep this past weekend (I think ) and that also didn't happen. UNC almost lost to Duke...it was that close. Anything is possible. These teams have off games or the other coaches are more prepared. In a tight game you never know. Plus if the goalie is having a bad day...look out.

Well, that was your first mistake, attaching any validity to my predictions.

So, essentially what you’re saying is the only way North Carolina loses the tournament is if they’re off. It won’t be because a better team beats them.

If a team beats UNC, that's because it was the better team that day. No one hoists a trophy yelling, "The other team is really better than us!!!!"

[Laxallday]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

[Dr. Tact]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

It very much could happen....I think it would have been better for them to lose to Duke in the regular season. Get the loss out of the way so that you are not tight in the tourneys. Extreme confidence can be an achilles....

[Laxfan500]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

It very much could happen....I think it would have been better for them to lose to Duke in the regular season. Get the loss out of the way so that you are not tight in the tourneys. Extreme confidence can be an achilles....

I would think they were more over confident going into ND game honestly . Duke game, IMO, had more to do with Ortega’s absence and less to do with over confidence ....just my opinion .

[Cletus]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

What gives me pause is North Carolina’s history of choking at times in the postseason. You could look it up.

[Brownlax]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

It very much could happen....I think it would have been better for them to lose to Duke in the regular season. Get the loss out of the way so that you are not tight in the tourneys. Extreme confidence can be an achilles....

I would think they were more over confident going into ND game honestly . Duke game, IMO, had more to do with Ortega’s absence and less to do with over confidence ....just my opinion .

Duke game had a lot to do with Jenner absolutely dominating the draw controls in the second half. She gave her team so many possessions.

[seacoaster]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

What gives me pause is North Carolina’s history of choking at times in the postseason. You could look it up.

If you would, could you list the game(s) in which UNC choked?

[laxagainsthumanity]

If you would, could you list the game(s) in which UNC choked?

UVA in 2014 and Navy in 2017, both at Fetzer Field and both for a Final Four bid, come to mind. Both times they were coming off of National Championships. FTR I wouldn't say they're prone to choking but I see the argument.

[laxagainsthumanity]

Duke dominated time of possession in the second half. UNC is vulnerable on the draw. Still need to play a hell of a game even to keep it close. But sure, they're beatable. If anyone is going to do it I think it's BC, who for the first time ever seems to be peaking at the right time. For ND or Duke, they would need off days from a couple key UNC performers. Not sure which of those tiers Cuse is in but their odds aren't 0.

[wlaxphan20]

In the recent years ND has beed a good matchup against UNC, regardless of how dominant UNC has been that year. They beat UNC by 2 in 2019 & lost by 1 in 2018. Sometimes, in all sports, two teams are ranked highly and don't match up well, resulting in lopsided scores, but other times they do - whether that has to do with the type of players the coaches recruit, the team's style of play, or the game plan.

Just based on UVA in 2014 and Navy in 2017, I wouldn't draw the conclusion that UNC is "prone to choking" in the post-season. That Navy team took BC to the brink in the Final 4 in 2017. Moreno, Wakefield, Hoeg, Hoffer, and Woodruff were also all underclassmen on that 2017 team, and I'm sure haven't forgotten the sting of an early play-off exit!

[laxagainsthumanity]

Navy played an unbelievable game vs. the Heels in 2017. Incredibly poised and together. However, that UNC team seemed to have some culture problems. Loaded with superstars and thought the only opponent who could touch them was Maryland. They lost on their Senior Day to a good-not-great Syracuse team and didn't show up to that Navy game ready to compete. Tracy and Hendrick combined for 8 goals but it took them 22 shots and Tracy looked more interested in getting on SportsCenter than actually winning the game. I think the program learned a lot from that team's implosion. This year's team doesn't seem to have the same arrogance.

[Itsallgood]

Ok so we all know that UNC is the favorite here. But does a couple close games to a banged up, fired up ND team and solid, not spectacular Duke team give anybody pause they cant be beaten? Yes I know the big O didn’t play in the Duke game, but I am not seeing invincible like a few recent Maryland teams. I mean if BC or Duke or NU controls draws and BC passes like it did in Cuse game 1 or NU hangs 18-20 on that D, it’s not like it can’t happen.

What gives me pause is North Carolina’s history of choking at times in the postseason. You could look it up.

If you would, could you list the game(s) in which UNC choked?

[Cletus]

If you would, could you list the game(s) in which UNC choked?

UVA in 2014 and Navy in 2017, both at Fetzer Field and both for a Final Four bid, come to mind. Both times they were coming off of National Championships. FTR I wouldn't say they're prone to choking but I see the argument.

I will add to that list Boston College in the 2019 NCAA semi-final. The Heels jumped out to a 6-0 lead midway through the first half and had numerous chances to end the game late but failed in the end. I remember at least 2 point blank shots late or in overtime where they couldn't finish. And the BC OT game winner itself was a choke for NC. The goaltender shrunk down and allowed Apuzzo's shot to go over her head. If she had stood and held her position she would have made the save by letting the shot hit her body.

https://youtu.be/hoE1lYcAmGY

Watch the replays. It wasn't a very impressive shot from Apuzzo. So why was NC goalie Hennessey on her knees for the shot? Answer: she choked. So that's three, and three is enough to make a recurring pattern. I have a suspicion that if I go digging, I would find more.

[wlaxphan20]

Wouldn't call the 2019 semis a choke. It was one of the greatest collegiate women's lacrosse games played against two talented teams who split earlier that season. BC was a huge favorite the entire season coming off 2 NCAA championship appearances, finally having Kent for the entire season, the game was back and forth, with dozens of lead changes, and went to TWO overtimes. There was no clear favorite team, both teams were expected to be in the semis, the game was expected to be close, and it was. Hennessey had clutch saves all over the place that kept UNC in the game. Stops Apuzzo's shot with 0:02 in regulation to take them to OT...Had an insane CT against Arsenault in the first OT...they don't get to OT or the 2nd OT without her. BOTH teams missed point blank shots - in fact UNC scored 14 goals with 21 SOG and BC had 15 goals on 29 SOG. One little dip against the Tewaaraton winner and it's a choke??? Can't agree with that one. In the end, someone has to win and someone has to lose, but it doesn't always mean someone choked.

Double OT heartbreaker in the NCAA Final Four isn't the same as an unexpected early exit in the quarterfinals.

[seacoaster]

Wouldn't call the 2019 semis a choke. It was one of the greatest collegiate women's lacrosse games played against two talented teams who split earlier that season. BC was a huge favorite the entire season coming off 2 NCAA championship appearances, finally having Kent for the entire season, the game was back and forth, with dozens of lead changes, and went to TWO overtimes. There was no clear favorite team, both teams were expected to be in the semis, the game was expected to be close, and it was. Hennessey had clutch saves all over the place that kept UNC in the game. Stops Apuzzo's shot with 0:02 in regulation to take them to OT...Had an insane CT against Arsenault in the first OT...they don't get to OT or the 2nd OT without her. BOTH teams missed point blank shots - in fact UNC scored 14 goals with 21 SOG and BC had 15 goals on 29 SOG. One little dip against the Tewaaraton winner and it's a choke??? Can't agree with that one. In the end, someone has to win and someone has to lose, but it doesn't always mean someone choked.

Double OT heartbreaker in the NCAA Final Four isn't the same as an unexpected early exit in the quarterfinals.

Good post. The reason I asked is that I am reluctant to call the loss, even the unexpected loss, of a college lacrosse game a "choke." These may well be exceptional and accomplished athletes, but they are college kids who have down days and who make mistakes. Hennessey? Well, then Trenchard choked too, right? One v. One, and Trenchard let Apuzzo get her hands free and a hard shot off inside the near post. Not a choke. A battle royale on a team and individual basis. No one of those players should be saddled with a label like that, least of all the back-up goalie facing one of the best players in the game with her hands free from 2 or 3 meters away.

UNC loses to the 2017 Navy team, which had both Collinses, Larkin and Harris as freshmen, and the most storied coach in the history of the game. Getting beaten by a quality opponent is not choking.

The UVA game in 2014, I just don't remember. But OK, losing to UVA is presumptively bad, maybe really bad.

[Dr. Tact]

UNC loses to the 2017 Navy team, which had both Collinses, Larkin and Harris as freshmen, and the most storied coach in the history of the game. Getting beaten by a quality opponent is not choking.

Great teams with those 4.

The UVA game in 2014, I just don't remember. But OK, losing to UVA is presumptively bad, maybe really bad.

And shall it always be.....

[Cletus]

In the recent years ND has beed a good matchup against UNC, regardless of how dominant UNC has been that year. They beat UNC by 2 in 2019 & lost by 1 in 2018. Sometimes, in all sports, two teams are ranked highly and don't match up well, resulting in lopsided scores, but other times they do - whether that has to do with the type of players the coaches recruit, the team's style of play, or the game plan.

Just based on UVA in 2014 and Navy in 2017, I wouldn't draw the conclusion that UNC is "prone to choking" in the post-season. That Navy team took BC to the brink in the Final 4 in 2017. Moreno, Wakefield, Hoeg, Hoffer, and Woodruff were also all underclassmen on that 2017 team, and I'm sure haven't forgotten the sting of an early play-off exit!

Notre Dame has won a lot of regular season games, but none against the Tar Heels (0-3) in postseason games. Since ND joined the ACC in 2014, they've made it to the semi's 3 times and never past them, beating Virginia twice and Louisville to get there. It has been said on these boards that the Golden Domers are a bit hyped. I would agree with that after having looked back on their postseason past. Underwhelming at best.

02 L 2nd rd (quarters) beat OH st; L to #2 Princeton
04 L 1st L to NU
06 #6 beat Cornell; #3 GTown; L semi to #7 Dartmouth
08 L 1st to #1 NU
09 #6 beat Vandy in 1st; L to #3 *NC* q
10 L 1st to #2 NU
12 L 1st to #2 NU
13 L 1st to Stanford
14 #8 beat HPU; L to Duke 2nd
15 beat OH St; L to #8 NU 2nd
16 #6 1st rd bye; beat NU in 2nd; L to #3 *NC* q
17 L to Cornell 1st
19 beat Stanford 1st; L to #4 NU 2nd

6 - 1st rd exits
3 - 2nd rd exits
3 - quarterfinal exits
1 - semifinal exit


As far as the loss to the Navy team in the quarters of 2017, I call it a choke because that's what it was. #2 ranked defending national champion North Carolina had a 3 goal lead on an unranked Navy team, at home, with 17:39 left in the game, and then proceeded to give up 6 of the next 7 goals. In any other sport, that's a choke. It shouldn't make any difference that the sport it happened in on that occasion was women's lacrosse.

[Laxhead44]

Pitt comes into league next year to make 9 ACC women’s lax teams. Guessing there will be a Monday or Tuesday 8 vs.9 play in game to keep an 8 team bracket format?
Or will the league continue with only 8 tourney teams and #9 seed is out?