Johns Hopkins 2021

[flalax22]

Having slept on the results. My takeaway is this. Maryland has some horses that just compete at a higher level. I don’t think the talent gap is actually that wide. Wisnauskas and Bernhardt refused to lose that game. The Jays didn’t and don’t have the same level of fire and competitive spirit. I have faith that PM is going to correct that in the type of player he recruits.

[jhu06]

Some thoughts:
Pretty bad form on the recent Hopkins players IMO - they should follow Petro's lead - show some class - stay silent or cheer for the guys who are wearing the same uniform as you once did and going through some tough times. While there are no moral victories you have to admire the fight. Milliman didn't orchestrate Petro getting released and none of the current players did.

I have to admit I haven't watched the entire game yet - I couldn't watch it live - my DVR of course was set to ESPNU so I got a snootful of Bernhardt for 3-0 and then some awesome volleyball. The full game is up on youtube. So this is going to sound bad and ill informed but given the commentary on this thread I was surprised to learn from the stats that the Maryland goalie had more saves in the last 3 quarters and the Hopkins save percentage was still in the low 40's - 44 to be exact. I understand he had a flurry in the first quarter that kept the game from possibly really getting away but we once again need to pump our brakes. I'm very glad he got the opportunity and played reasonably well.

A defensive time out does reset the shot clock

So I assume Penn State is #3 in the BIG Final standings having beaten Ohio State twice? Does anyone know if Rutgers defeats Michigan does Hopkins end up 5th or 6th. A Wolverine upset would send Hopkins to State College I would guess?

I’ve been trying to figure that out. I agree that PSU is #3.

A 2-8 tie between Michigan and Hopkins doesn’t get resolved by head-to-head, because they split. Now, the goal differential in those two games favor Hopkins, but I don’t think that’s how the next tiebreaker works.

For other sports, it looks like the next tiebreaker is something like PF-PA. (Scored, Allowed). I’m not sure if that’s over all games, or whether they subtract out the scores of their own matchups and just include the totals against the other four teams.

You’d think a sports journalist somewhere would have scoped this all out. But, nah, yeah. Just wait until some time after 2 PM today.

WOMBAT someone somewhere is figuring this mess out this morning probably in a nod to you w/something that requires an over 21 id card to buy.
"What are you up to this morning"
"Figuring out big ten mens lacrosse tournament play in game tie breaker scenarios between teams w/2-8 records"
"that sounds pleasant"

[51percentcorn]

I'm not sure I agree with this new found talent stuff or that Hopkins - at 2-8 and riding a 6 game losing streak - is the team you don't want to play. On the face of it - they are exactly who you want to play because they haven't learned to win. In 6 of the 8 losses the 3rd/4th quarter issues are conspicuous:
- Tied with Rutgers going into the 4th quarter - lost by 5
- Tied with 10 minutes left with Penn State - lost by 3
- Down 1 with 5 minutes left to Michigan
- Down 1 going into the 4th quarter with Ohio State - immediately surrendered a goal to go down by 2 - lost by 2
- Tied with 2 minutes left in the 3rd with Rutgers - lost by 6
- Yesterday

So on the positive side - in every game except the first Rutgers game where they led for most of the first 3 quarters - every game has required at least a 3 goal comeback to make it a game - down 3 to Penn State - down 5 to Michigan - down 5 to Ohio State - down 3 twice to Rutgers - down 5 to Maryland - so they "never give up the fight until the fight is done" but they ARE losing the fights.

And NO I don't think its coaching

A victory in Columbus or State College is certainly not out of the realm of possibility but they have to figure out a way to a) not get boat raced in the first part of the game and b) go get it in the 4th. Otherwise let the rampant speculation begin.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Women’s bracket:

Women’s 2021 B1G Tournament

FDCACBE8-EAA8-490A-8F2D-4DFE275B9295.jpeg (69.35 KiB) Viewed 2610 times

[jrn19]

Women’s bracket:

FDCACBE8-EAA8-490A-8F2D-4DFE275B9295.jpeg

So if we assume the men’s follows a similar path; then Maryland as the 1 seed will face Ohio State or probably Hopkins (?) in the semifinal and Rutgers will face Penn State or probably Michigan (?) in the semifinals. I don’t think they’re going to reseed so if Michigan or Hopkins were the 6 and upset Penn State; they’d have to play Maryland

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Women’s bracket:

FDCACBE8-EAA8-490A-8F2D-4DFE275B9295.jpeg

So if we assume the men’s follows a similar path; then Maryland as the 1 seed will face Ohio State or probably Hopkins (?) in the semifinal and Rutgers will face Penn State or probably Michigan (?) in the semifinals. I don’t think they’re going to reseed so if Michigan or Hopkins were the 6 and upset Penn State; they’d have to play Maryland

Once the bracket is set, it is fixed.

No “reseeding” based on tourney outcomes.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I'm not sure I agree with this new found talent stuff or that Hopkins - at 2-8 and riding a 6 game losing streak - is the team you don't want to play. On the face of it - they are exactly who you want to play because they haven't learned to win. In 6 of the 8 losses the 3rd/4th quarter issues are conspicuous:
- Tied with Rutgers going into the 4th quarter - lost by 5
- Tied with 10 minutes left with Penn State - lost by 3
- Down 1 with 5 minutes left to Michigan
- Down 1 going into the 4th quarter with Ohio State - immediately surrendered a goal to go down by 2 - lost by 2
- Tied with 2 minutes left in the 3rd with Rutgers - lost by 6
- Yesterday

So on the positive side - in every game except the first Rutgers game where they led for most of the first 3 quarters - every game has required at least a 3 goal comeback to make it a game - down 3 to Penn State - down 5 to Michigan - down 5 to Ohio State - down 3 twice to Rutgers - down 5 to Maryland - so they "never give up the fight until the fight is done" but they ARE losing the fights.

And NO I don't think its coaching

A victory in Columbus or State College is certainly not out of the realm of possibility but they have to figure out a way to a) not get boat raced in the first part of the game and b) go get it in the 4th. Otherwise let the rampant speculation begin.

I’ll say this about this current 2-8 team. Yes, they’ve fallen behind a lot on the scoreboard, but they have often fought back, as you noted.

How many times in the past dozen years have you seen Hopkins fall behind by 3 to 5 goals and you just knew, well, that’s it? Toast.

Sure, there are instances in the recent past where Hopkins came back and won, but more often than not, those situations, to me at least, looked like forlorn hope and cluelessness on how to claw back from a deep deficit.

So, I’m proud of this 2021 Team. They have represented Hopkins well despite the record.

I could have done without the coaching staff shirts though. I’m not a fan of mixing issues with sports.

[The Orfling]

Gut-wrenching final three minutes but it's no small thing to claw back from a 5-0 deficit and come within minutes of knocking off the #1 team. And seems like JHU has found its goalie (at last). Milliman is a great recruiter, he'll get some great Canadian scorers and his teams play really hard for him. He's not Mr. Tactical In-Game Adjustment guy but coordinators can play that role.

[HopFan16]

from the teams instagram page after the game. the diprospero/brown responses recieved more than 30 likes which you can see by clicking on the like. Benn, Greeley, etc.
jhumenslax
Baltimore city mandates limited attendance to just 250, but they got their money's worth. Not the result we were looking for, but another classic in lacrosse's greatest rivalry. #GoHop
diprospero
Can Ernie hit us with a stat for last time we were 2-8?
rbrownie4
Verified
@diprospero never
mdolente4
@diprospero preach

I'm sorry, Eric DiProspero?? A career benchwarmer who was part of that famously great 2010 Hopkins team that went 7-8 (might have been 2-8 had they not gotten to play teams like Siena and Manhattan), lost to every good team they played, and then got absolutely humiliated by Duke? THAT is who is chirping on social media? 09-11 was really a terrific stretch for the program. So many playoff wins. So many memorable and impactful players like Eric who will go down in Hopkins lore as some of the greats.

If a player like Ryan Brown has issues, fine (though ideally they'd be voiced in private) but it doesn't carry much weight when it's coming from a guy who contributed nothing and whose teams accomplished very little. At the risk of sounding like 06, it was seasons like 2010 (there were others—2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 come to mind) that got the coach replaced. The timing of the comment is also weird: Hopkins took a #1 undefeated team to the brink. Basically everyone outside the program is going "hm maybe Hopkins might have a future under this new coach" meanwhile you've got the peanut gallery rushing to the comments to dunk on their own alma mater immediately after a gut-wrenching loss to a big rival.

I don't know if the team will ever be successful again, but if they ever are, people will remember this fair-weather BS and who was and wasn't supportive of the program through tough times.

Back to the game—obviously you would like to see them close it out but the difference in the game was essentially two players—Bernhardt, who is the best player in the country, and Wisnauskas, who isn't far behind. That's it. The rest of lineups on both sides of the ball are not very far apart at all. Brett Makar is supposedly a 1st team All-American and DeSo made him look silly twice. You know, the kid Eric's coach had playing the wrong position for three years? Also, Marcille's 44% does not do justice to how good the kid was in his first career start. Really quick hands and explodes to the ball. Whereas we gave up 7+ softies against Rutgers, I think only 1 or 2 of Maryland's goals were of the soft variety.

I believe that if Michigan loses today we are almost certainly going to be the 5 seed based on goal differential, and will travel to Ohio State.

[flalax22]

from the teams instagram page after the game. the diprospero/brown responses recieved more than 30 likes which you can see by clicking on the like. Benn, Greeley, etc.
jhumenslax
Baltimore city mandates limited attendance to just 250, but they got their money's worth. Not the result we were looking for, but another classic in lacrosse's greatest rivalry. #GoHop
diprospero
Can Ernie hit us with a stat for last time we were 2-8?
rbrownie4
Verified
@diprospero never
mdolente4
@diprospero preach

I'm sorry, Eric DiProspero?? A career benchwarmer who was part of that famously great 2010 Hopkins team that went 7-8 (might have been 2-8 had they not gotten to play teams like Siena and Manhattan), lost to every good team they played, and then got absolutely humiliated by Duke? THAT is who is chirping on social media? 09-11 was really a terrific stretch for the program. So many playoff wins. So many memorable and impactful players like Eric who will go down in Hopkins lore as some of the greats.

If a player like Ryan Brown has issues, fine (though ideally they'd be voiced in private) but it doesn't carry much weight when it's coming from a guy who contributed nothing and whose teams accomplished very little. At the risk of sounding like 06, it was seasons like 2010 (there were others—2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 come to mind) that got the coach replaced. The timing of the comment is also weird: Hopkins took a #1 undefeated team to the brink. Basically everyone outside the program is going "hm maybe Hopkins might have a future under this new coach" meanwhile you've got the peanut gallery rushing to the comments to dunk on their own alma mater immediately after a gut-wrenching loss to a big rival.

I don't know if the team will ever be successful again, but if they ever are, people will remember this fair-weather BS and who was and wasn't supportive of the program through tough times.

Back to the game—obviously you would like to see them close it out but the difference in the game was essentially two players—Bernhardt, who is the best player in the country, and Wisnauskas, who isn't far behind. That's it. The rest of lineups on both sides of the ball are not very far apart at all. Brett Makar is supposedly a 1st team All-American and DeSo made him look silly twice. You know, the kid Eric's coach had playing the wrong position for three years? Also, Marcille's 44% does not do justice to how good the kid was in his first career start. Really quick hands and explodes to the ball. Whereas we gave up 7+ softies against Rutgers, I think only 1 or 2 of Maryland's goals were of the soft variety.

I believe that if Michigan loses today we are almost certainly going to be the 5 seed based on goal differential, and will travel to Ohio State.

I agree that alumni chirping the program right now isn’t exactly helpful. But I still disagree with the notion that poor records are what showed Petro the door. Rightly or wrongly the new admins felt like Petro was an obnoxious tyrant. World views, approach, personality and style are what sent the staff out the door not Ws and Ls in my opinion.

As for Wombat mentioning the coaching shirts. That’s all tied into the change. That is exactly what the Baker Shanhan cabal are looking for. Can anyone picture Petro wearing that shirt? It’s the modern progressives vs old fashioned attitudes.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=isCh4kCeNYU

[jrn19]

from the teams instagram page after the game. the diprospero/brown responses recieved more than 30 likes which you can see by clicking on the like. Benn, Greeley, etc.
jhumenslax
Baltimore city mandates limited attendance to just 250, but they got their money's worth. Not the result we were looking for, but another classic in lacrosse's greatest rivalry. #GoHop
diprospero
Can Ernie hit us with a stat for last time we were 2-8?
rbrownie4
Verified
@diprospero never
mdolente4
@diprospero preach

I'm sorry, Eric DiProspero?? A career benchwarmer who was part of that famously great 2010 Hopkins team that went 7-8 (might have been 2-8 had they not gotten to play teams like Siena and Manhattan), lost to every good team they played, and then got absolutely humiliated by Duke? THAT is who is chirping on social media? 09-11 was really a terrific stretch for the program. So many playoff wins. So many memorable and impactful players like Eric who will go down in Hopkins lore as some of the greats.

If a player like Ryan Brown has issues, fine (though ideally they'd be voiced in private) but it doesn't carry much weight when it's coming from a guy who contributed nothing and whose teams accomplished very little. At the risk of sounding like 06, it was seasons like 2010 (there were others—2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 come to mind) that got the coach replaced. The timing of the comment is also weird: Hopkins took a #1 undefeated team to the brink. Basically everyone outside the program is going "hm maybe Hopkins might have a future under this new coach" meanwhile you've got the peanut gallery rushing to the comments to dunk on their own alma mater immediately after a gut-wrenching loss to a big rival.

I don't know if the team will ever be successful again, but if they ever are, people will remember this fair-weather BS and who was and wasn't supportive of the program through tough times.

Back to the game—obviously you would like to see them close it out but the difference in the game was essentially two players—Bernhardt, who is the best player in the country, and Wisnauskas, who isn't far behind. That's it. The rest of lineups on both sides of the ball are not very far apart at all. Brett Makar is supposedly a 1st team All-American and DeSo made him look silly twice. You know, the kid Eric's coach had playing the wrong position for three years? Also, Marcille's 44% does not do justice to how good the kid was in his first career start. Really quick hands and explodes to the ball. Whereas we gave up 7+ softies against Rutgers, I think only 1 or 2 of Maryland's goals were of the soft variety.

I believe that if Michigan loses today we are almost certainly going to be the 5 seed based on goal differential, and will travel to Ohio State.

I agree that alumni chirping the program right now isn’t exactly helpful. But I still disagree with the notion that poor records are what showed Petro the door. Rightly or wrongly the new admins felt like Petro was an obnoxious tyrant. World views, approach, personality and style are what sent the staff out the door not Ws and Ls in my opinion.

As for Wombat mentioning the coaching shirts. That’s all tied into the change. That is exactly what the Baker Shanhan cabal are looking for. Can anyone picture Petro wearing that shirt? It’s the modern progressives vs old fashioned attitudes.

They were 2-4 in his contract year with the wins being MSM and a winless Towson team and 4 blowout losses. Over 5 years they were 38-31 and had 1 NCAA tournament win. And of course, 1 Final Four in 12 seasons. "obnoxious tyrant" or not; if he was 25-50% more successful he'd still be the coach

[51percentcorn]

Rightly or wrongly the new admins felt like Petro was an obnoxious tyrant. World views, approach, personality and style are what sent the staff out the door not Ws and Ls in my opinion.

Again - pure speculation but I am not sure I agree. I think the record since 2008 was - to his own demise - not up to what he created in the first 8 years which as I detailed before was 2 quarters, 6 semis, 4 finals, 2 ships - since '08 1 semi - handful of quarters - all but 1 of course losses by significant margins - if the UVA loss in '09 was the worst in Hopkins history to date - well they topped that at least twice against Duke.
Then you have the 2-4 in '20 with wins against winless Towson and MSM. The cabal/coven may not have liked him but if a few certain someones that pay for the Playstations in the Cordish Center had called up and said we support him 100% - he would still be there. Oh BTW - if he was there Hopkins would still have a losing record and the line for folks howling for his head would be long and distnguished.

I am all in for Marcille - I hope he has solved the goalie issue for the forseeable future. I think he put up a good performance under tough circumstances. All I'm saying is - Rome wasn't built in a day and whether 44% does anybody any justice - it's still 44%. He almost certainly will start in the tournament game - can't imagine that he won't - if the first 8-9 minutes against the Terps was jitters and the defense hung him out - well maybe he will give an inspiring performance in PA or OH.

I could could not care less about what shirt Petro/Milliman or any coach wears unless it is somehow truly offensive (which of course is not going to happen)

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

from the teams instagram page after the game. the diprospero/brown responses recieved more than 30 likes which you can see by clicking on the like. Benn, Greeley, etc.
jhumenslax
Baltimore city mandates limited attendance to just 250, but they got their money's worth. Not the result we were looking for, but another classic in lacrosse's greatest rivalry. #GoHop
diprospero
Can Ernie hit us with a stat for last time we were 2-8?
rbrownie4
Verified
@diprospero never
mdolente4
@diprospero preach

I'm sorry, Eric DiProspero?? A career benchwarmer who was part of that famously great 2010 Hopkins team that went 7-8 (might have been 2-8 had they not gotten to play teams like Siena and Manhattan), lost to every good team they played, and then got absolutely humiliated by Duke? THAT is who is chirping on social media? 09-11 was really a terrific stretch for the program. So many playoff wins. So many memorable and impactful players like Eric who will go down in Hopkins lore as some of the greats.

If a player like Ryan Brown has issues, fine (though ideally they'd be voiced in private) but it doesn't carry much weight when it's coming from a guy who contributed nothing and whose teams accomplished very little. At the risk of sounding like 06, it was seasons like 2010 (there were others—2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 come to mind) that got the coach replaced. The timing of the comment is also weird: Hopkins took a #1 undefeated team to the brink. Basically everyone outside the program is going "hm maybe Hopkins might have a future under this new coach" meanwhile you've got the peanut gallery rushing to the comments to dunk on their own alma mater immediately after a gut-wrenching loss to a big rival.

I don't know if the team will ever be successful again, but if they ever are, people will remember this fair-weather BS and who was and wasn't supportive of the program through tough times.

Back to the game—obviously you would like to see them close it out but the difference in the game was essentially two players—Bernhardt, who is the best player in the country, and Wisnauskas, who isn't far behind. That's it. The rest of lineups on both sides of the ball are not very far apart at all. Brett Makar is supposedly a 1st team All-American and DeSo made him look silly twice. You know, the kid Eric's coach had playing the wrong position for three years? Also, Marcille's 44% does not do justice to how good the kid was in his first career start. Really quick hands and explodes to the ball. Whereas we gave up 7+ softies against Rutgers, I think only 1 or 2 of Maryland's goals were of the soft variety.

I believe that if Michigan loses today we are almost certainly going to be the 5 seed based on goal differential, and will travel to Ohio State.

Goal differential of just the two head-to-head games, or the entire conference play, or the conference minus their two game scores? Helluva I know. What do you think?

[HopFan16]

from the teams instagram page after the game. the diprospero/brown responses recieved more than 30 likes which you can see by clicking on the like. Benn, Greeley, etc.
jhumenslax
Baltimore city mandates limited attendance to just 250, but they got their money's worth. Not the result we were looking for, but another classic in lacrosse's greatest rivalry. #GoHop
diprospero
Can Ernie hit us with a stat for last time we were 2-8?
rbrownie4
Verified
@diprospero never
mdolente4
@diprospero preach

I'm sorry, Eric DiProspero?? A career benchwarmer who was part of that famously great 2010 Hopkins team that went 7-8 (might have been 2-8 had they not gotten to play teams like Siena and Manhattan), lost to every good team they played, and then got absolutely humiliated by Duke? THAT is who is chirping on social media? 09-11 was really a terrific stretch for the program. So many playoff wins. So many memorable and impactful players like Eric who will go down in Hopkins lore as some of the greats.

If a player like Ryan Brown has issues, fine (though ideally they'd be voiced in private) but it doesn't carry much weight when it's coming from a guy who contributed nothing and whose teams accomplished very little. At the risk of sounding like 06, it was seasons like 2010 (there were others—2013, 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 come to mind) that got the coach replaced. The timing of the comment is also weird: Hopkins took a #1 undefeated team to the brink. Basically everyone outside the program is going "hm maybe Hopkins might have a future under this new coach" meanwhile you've got the peanut gallery rushing to the comments to dunk on their own alma mater immediately after a gut-wrenching loss to a big rival.

I don't know if the team will ever be successful again, but if they ever are, people will remember this fair-weather BS and who was and wasn't supportive of the program through tough times.

Back to the game—obviously you would like to see them close it out but the difference in the game was essentially two players—Bernhardt, who is the best player in the country, and Wisnauskas, who isn't far behind. That's it. The rest of lineups on both sides of the ball are not very far apart at all. Brett Makar is supposedly a 1st team All-American and DeSo made him look silly twice. You know, the kid Eric's coach had playing the wrong position for three years? Also, Marcille's 44% does not do justice to how good the kid was in his first career start. Really quick hands and explodes to the ball. Whereas we gave up 7+ softies against Rutgers, I think only 1 or 2 of Maryland's goals were of the soft variety.

I believe that if Michigan loses today we are almost certainly going to be the 5 seed based on goal differential, and will travel to Ohio State.

Goal differential of just the two head-to-head games, or the entire conference play, or the conference minus their two game scores? Helluva I know. What do you think?

I believe that any of the above would give us the 5 seed and Michigan the 6 (assuming they lose to Rutgers today).

Our goal differential on the season is -21 (108 scored, 129 against). Prior to today Michigan's was -41 (96 scored, 137 against). So a loss to Rutgers today would not close that gap, even if you exclude the games we played against them.

Only thing I can think of that'd favor Michigan is if they score 13+ goals today, they'd finish the regular season with 109+, so they'd win the tiebreaker if it's based on goals scored (though I'm pretty sure it isn't). They're currently at 8 with five minutes left in the 3rd.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I found the 2021 B1G baseball tiebreakers:

https://bigten.org/news/2011/3/23/tiebr ... dures.aspx

The tie comes down to E.4. In baseball, fewest runs allowed.

Not sure what it is/will be for lacrosse.

[Hoponboard]

Rutgers 13 Michigan 12 Final.

[HopFan16]

Sounds like a trip to Columbus Saturday night. Third time's the charm?

[AreaLax]

Per Terry Foy twitter

I’m told that because Michigan lost to Rutgers by one, the goal-difference tie-breaker was tied and there’ll be a coin toss for seeds 5 & 6.

I love coin tosses for seeding.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Per Terry Foy twitter

I’m told that because Michigan lost to Rutgers by one, the goal-difference tie-breaker was tied and there’ll be a coin toss for seeds 5 & 6.

I love coin tosses for seeding.

Standings, and I think this is alphabetically sorted:

https://bigten.org/standings.aspx?path=mlax

So if they are going off points scored...