Trump's Russian Collusion

[youthathletics]

I have been saying for two years....all roads lead back to BHO's desk.

You have been consistent here, in what way will this all lead back to BHO?

The fish rots from the head down, it all stems from leadership. There is no way this all got started without his approval.... he had to sign off on it with a likely wink and a nod. And to be frank, I am sure the r's were also for it as well, if for no other reason to make sure the new member of their elite money making club was completely vetted and shaken down, enough so, that he may very well be taken down....should they choose.

They may very well have him by the cojones as we speak.

[dislaxxic]

That's really quite the fairy tale you're suggesting ya. Would you care to join us to take a look at how Mitch McConnell reacted to the news that there was a strong suspicion of Russian subterfuge during the campaign? These things HAPPENED...in real time, in 2016. We know now that a LOT was happening that was suspicious on it's face...there have been NUMEROUS ACTUAL INDICTMENTS, yet you guys keep wanting to change the narrative to shove it all into a category of some sort of Deep State plot. It's a 180° turn that no one this side of Faux News truly believes in their heart...it's simply impossible that you don't get that.

By the way, the "fish rots from the head down" comment is SO apropos, but not, i'm sure, in the way you intended it...

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

Please explain to me how following the Constitutional procedure of the 25th Amendment (which is what McCabe says was considered) constitutes a "coup d'etat".

Did the “dems” create the 25th amendment when nobody was looking?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and disable the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...so much so that taking his word for it...to believe his fictions about Deep State actors...can only be described one way:

Delusional.

OK, there's one more word:

Laughable.

..

No. It is bootlicking.

Sure, the Acting AG & FBI Director sit around all the time discussing whether or not they should wear a wire when talking to the President, to gather evidence to invoke the 25 th Amendment. ...no problem. Business as usual. Let's see if Barr & Wray are bootlickers.

My guess is that they consider it if they believe there may be probable cause....I wonder why Comey didn’t wear a wire when Trump invited him to dinner?

[dislaxxic]

Update:

THE UNSEEN ASPECTS OF PAUL MANAFORT’S LIES AND TRUTH-TELLING ARE AS TELLING AS THE ONES WE’VE SEEN

"For all the debate about whether Mueller is almost done or not, the things we didn’t learn about during this breach discussion are just as interesting as the things we did learn about. They suggest that all the discussion about cooperation deals (including my own) often forgets that Mueller is seeking both criminal evidence and intelligence on what the Russians were doing. They also suggest that Manafort may have provided testimony that bears on other parts of the investigation we’ve recently learned about (which might include Stone, or the Trump Tower deal) — but we can’t be sure whether Manafort told the truth, or whether he lied but Mueller either can’t prove or doesn’t want to reveal that he knows Manafort lied. They suggest that Mueller would still like to make the case, in whatever form, that Manafort intentionally gave the Russians polling data with the understanding that he’d push a Ukrainian peace deal that amounted to sanctions relief — but Manafort’s refusal to cooperate on this point might thwart that effort. Finally, they make it clear that Manafort remained a part of an effort to obstruct this investigation, including via means that bypassed the Joint Defense Agreement Trump has exploited."

..

[Trinity]

The FBI knew about Trump Tower Moscow and all the lies told during the campaign and transition. As did Putin. Sater and Nader were the original flippers. They knew Manafort was a Russian tool since 2003. They knew Flynn lied about sanctions when he didn’t have to. Then Trump walks in the door obstructing. Jared lies 100 times. What the frig were they supposed to think?

[MDlaxfan76]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and disable the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...so much so that taking his word for it...to believe his fictions about Deep State actors...can only be described one way:

Delusional.

OK, there's one more word:

Laughable.

..

No. It is bootlicking.

Sure, the Acting AG & FBI Director sit around all the time discussing whether or not they should wear a wire when talking to the President, to gather evidence to invoke the 25 th Amendment. ...no problem. Business as usual. Let's see if Barr & Wray are bootlickers.

I think we can all agree that it wasn't "business as usual". Heck, McCabe would agree with you!

But that's exactly the point. They were very seriously concerned that Trump was thoroughly compromised, and actually acting as a Russian agent. Or at a minimum committing cover-up crimes, obstruction of justice, to prevent legitimate investigation of what the Russians had done and quietly likely Trump and his cronies relationship to those activities.

That's very far from "business as usual".

As to "bootlickers", I don't think that fits with Wray.

I do have serious concerns about Barr. Maybe it's just that he seems so immensely out of touch on a whole range of legal and social policy matters, as well as seemingly having auditioned for the job by writing an unsolicited, and admittedly uninformed, memo that drew conclusions favorable to Trump despite being uninformed. That seems so imprudent, so injudicious, so solicitous. Maybe it's that so many folks who have put themselves forward to work with Trump, coming out of relative nowhere, have turned out to be so dirty. Makes me uneasy.

[MDlaxfan76]

I do think that passions are very high about Trump's immorality, but that's because it's so egregious. Yes, that can mean that folks are eager to see him get his full comeuppance, sooner rather than later. And that can mean folks get too far out over their skis at times. Human nature, for sure.

But I think it's whistling past the graveyard to think that Trump and his family, his business, and his campaign are all going to get off scot-free. That's where the true delusion lies. To me, it's stunning that roughly 40% of Americans still support this guy despite all that we actually do know. Some aren't 'deluded', they actually like what makes him abhorrent to me. But I don't 'hate' those people either, just their choices.

Why speak so eloquently, then drop a sentence in there as if it is fact......that shoots your entire rational post to hell? Why are you so certain his family is guilty of a crime, instead of waiting for guilt to be proven?

I appreciate your description of my post as "rational".

But I think that statement is pretty clearly a forward looking prediction, an opinion. The prior sentence provides that context..."I think...". And the next sentence, "To me..."

So, why do I think his family members have committed crimes? Well, they've been pretty darn intimately involved with his businesses, and his foundation. I'm confident that both have engaged in illegal activity. My only question is HOW egregious those crimes have been, whether it goes beyond 'just' false statements to banks, violations of various tax codes, etc or flat out money laundering. It's also quite clear that there were election finance violations, and those too involved the family business. And again the family were quite involved, though I do think it's fair to assume that DJT was and is still in actual detailed control of all aspects of what the business does, regardless of whose signature signs any check.

It also seems quite apparent that, at a minimum, Don Jr was complicit with the Russians and their offer to help the Trump Campaign. And the cover-up of that reality. Pretty good hunch that he lied to Congress and/or FBI on that as well. Less clear how aware Ivanka and Jared were of the Russians touching the campaign, but they certainly knew that there was a Trump Tower Moscow project and that daddy was lying about it.

I dunno what Mueller will be able to prove at the sort of level of certainty that he demands for each indictment, or what SDNY usually demands, but quite a bit of the above could involve a paper trail. So, time will tell to see what they actually get indicted for (or not).

But yeah, crimes.

[foreverlax]

I have been saying for two years....all roads lead back to BHO's desk.

You have been consistent here, in what way will this all lead back to BHO?

The fish rots from the head down, it all stems from leadership. There is no way this all got started without his approval.... he had to sign off on it with a likely wink and a nod. And to be frank, I am sure the r's were also for it as well, if for no other reason to make sure the new member of their elite money making club was completely vetted and shaken down, enough so, that he may very well be taken down....should they choose.

They may very well have him by the cojones as we speak.

This story may just have a little bit for everyone...good news for me, it ain't me.

[foreverlax]

though I do think it's fair to assume that DJT was and is still in actual detailed control of all aspects of what the business does, regardless of whose signature signs any check.
The obvious nest feathering is the thing that pisses me off the most - all the rest of it is fluff. Wonder what he does during his Exectutive Time?

[old salt]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

Please explain to me how following the Constitutional procedure of the 25th Amendment (which is what McCabe says was considered) constitutes a "coup d'etat".

Probable cause to consider wearing a wire, to gather evidence to remove a President from office.

McCabe will likely have a chance to explain his actions (under oath), ...unless Mueller drops an 11:59 speaking indictment of a conspiracy comprised of Trump campaign members, naming Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator. In which case, McCabe will be a hero.

[MDlaxfan76]

though I do think it's fair to assume that DJT was and is still in actual detailed control of all aspects of what the business does, regardless of whose signature signs any check.
The obvious nest feathering is the thing that pisses me off the most - all the rest of it is fluff. Wonder what he does during his Exectutive Time?

Me too.
But then, there's so much to dislike.

[MDlaxfan76]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

Please explain to me how following the Constitutional procedure of the 25th Amendment (which is what McCabe says was considered) constitutes a "coup d'etat".

Probable cause to consider wearing a wire, to gather evidence to remove a President from office.

McCabe will likely have a chance to explain his actions (under oath), ...unless Mueller drops an 11:59 speaking indictment of a conspiracy comprised of Trump campaign members, naming Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator. In which case, McCabe will be a hero.

"coup d'état" is obviously a completely off-base phrase.

Had Trump been removed from office (either under Article 25 for inability to perform the duties of President or via impeachment) are NOT violent or forcible overthrows or alterations of a government. Nor would those who had taken these actions have succeeded this President. Pence would have. These were Constitutional considerations, and continue to be.

Merriam-Webster
coup d'état noun
\ ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä , ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä, -də-\
variants: or coup d'etat
plural coups d'état or coups d'etat\ ˌkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˈtä , ˈkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˌtä , -​də-​ \
Definition of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
a military coup d'état of the dictator

Collins
coup d'état in American
(ˌkudeɪˈtɑ ; ko̅oˌdātäˈ)
the sudden, forcible overthrow of a ruler, government, etc., sometimes with violence, by a small group of people already having some political or military authority

coup d'état in British
(ˈkuː deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
noun
Word forms: plural coups d'état (ˈkuːz deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

[old salt]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and attempt to disable and marginalize the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...

Based on your criteria for initiating investigations, they better be investigating the newest Congressperson from MN as a potential suicide bomber.

[MDlaxfan76]

And note that the investigators, had they indeed 'worn a wire' and thereby gathered evidence justifying an impeachment or Article 25, would have actually needed to have found such evidence... Meaning Trump was committing crimes or was otherwise incapable of being President under Article 25.

It had to be true!

[old salt]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

Please explain to me how following the Constitutional procedure of the 25th Amendment (which is what McCabe says was considered) constitutes a "coup d'etat".

Probable cause to consider wearing a wire, to gather evidence to remove a President from office.

McCabe will likely have a chance to explain his actions (under oath), ...unless Mueller drops an 11:59 speaking indictment of a conspiracy comprised of Trump campaign members, naming Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator. In which case, McCabe will be a hero.

"coup d'état" is obviously a completely off-base phrase.

Had Trump been removed from office (either under Article 25 for inability to perform the duties of President or via impeachment) are NOT violent or forcible overthrows or alterations of a government. Nor would those who had taken these actions have succeeded this President. Pence would have. These were Constitutional considerations, and continue to be.

Merriam-Webster
coup d'état noun
\ ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä , ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä, -də-\
variants: or coup d'etat
plural coups d'état or coups d'etat\ ˌkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˈtä , ˈkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˌtä , -​də-​ \
Definition of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
a military coup d'état of the dictator

Collins
coup d'état in American
(ˌkudeɪˈtɑ ; ko̅oˌdātäˈ)
the sudden, forcible overthrow of a ruler, government, etc., sometimes with violence, by a small group of people already having some political or military authority

coup d'état in British
(ˈkuː deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
noun
Word forms: plural coups d'état (ˈkuːz deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

Duh ! ...you know what Oscar Wilde said about irony.

met·a·phor

Dictionary result for metaphor
/ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/Submit
noun

a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor"

synonyms: figure of speech, figurative expression, image, trope, allegory, parable, analogy, comparison, symbol, emblem, word painting, word picture; literary conceit

a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.
"the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor for an industry that was teetering"

[MDlaxfan76]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and attempt to disable and marginalize the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...

Based on your criteria for initiating investigations, they better be investigating the newest Congressperson from MN as a potential suicide bomber.

More silliness. Getting increasingly hard to take anything you say seriously, Salty.

I happen to be pretty concerned about anti-Semitic tropes and how insidious they are, but let's not treat such as a political punching bag. In this case, she's certainly apologized and is getting quite a bit of an education on the topic. Hopefully she'll actually dig in and learn and grow. She's young, I'll give her a chance...but she's definitely on notice that any form of such prejudice is going to get challenged.

[old salt]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and attempt to disable and marginalize the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...

Based on your criteria for initiating investigations, they better be investigating the newest Congressperson from MN as a potential suicide bomber.

More silliness. Getting increasingly hard to take anything you say seriously, Salty.

I happen to be pretty concerned about anti-Semitic tropes and how insidious they are, but let's not treat such as a political punching bag. In this case, she's certainly apologized and is getting quite a bit of an education on the topic. Hopefully she'll actually dig in and learn and grow. She's young, I'll give her a chance...but she's definitely on notice that any form of such prejudice is going to get challenged.

Maybe she's learning (no evidence yet), but dis is not (that's who I was replying to).

[MDlaxfan76]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

Please explain to me how following the Constitutional procedure of the 25th Amendment (which is what McCabe says was considered) constitutes a "coup d'etat".

Probable cause to consider wearing a wire, to gather evidence to remove a President from office.

McCabe will likely have a chance to explain his actions (under oath), ...unless Mueller drops an 11:59 speaking indictment of a conspiracy comprised of Trump campaign members, naming Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator. In which case, McCabe will be a hero.

"coup d'état" is obviously a completely off-base phrase.

Had Trump been removed from office (either under Article 25 for inability to perform the duties of President or via impeachment) are NOT violent or forcible overthrows or alterations of a government. Nor would those who had taken these actions have succeeded this President. Pence would have. These were Constitutional considerations, and continue to be.

Merriam-Webster
coup d'état noun
\ ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä , ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä, -də-\
variants: or coup d'etat
plural coups d'état or coups d'etat\ ˌkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˈtä , ˈkü-​(ˌ)dā-​ˌtä , -​də-​ \
Definition of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
a military coup d'état of the dictator

Collins
coup d'état in American
(ˌkudeɪˈtɑ ; ko̅oˌdātäˈ)
the sudden, forcible overthrow of a ruler, government, etc., sometimes with violence, by a small group of people already having some political or military authority

coup d'état in British
(ˈkuː deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
noun
Word forms: plural coups d'état (ˈkuːz deɪˈtɑː , French ku deta)
a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

Duh ! ...you know what Oscar Wilde said about irony.

met·a·phor

Dictionary result for metaphor
/ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/Submit
noun

a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor"

synonyms: figure of speech, figurative expression, image, trope, allegory, parable, analogy, comparison, symbol, emblem, word painting, word picture; literary conceit

a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.
"the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor for an industry that was teetering"

There's nothing metaphorical, ironic, and certainly nothing poetic about your use of the phrase.
It was hyperbole, inaccurate, intended to exaggerate and inflame.
I don't think anyone on here is going to confuse you with Wilde much less a poet.

But anytime you mean something to not be taken the literal way you write it, how about just saying so?
Help us stupid readers out.
If you really think we're "stupid" then stop wasting your weak attempts at "irony" on us.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Will have to watch his entire interview, but he seems to be confirming that Deep State plotters were considering a coup d'etat, via their investigative powers.

A remarkable fiction that is real only in the fevered minds of the Always Trumpers and authoritarian, anti-American purists that feel it's OK to attack, demean and attempt to disable and marginalize the American Intelligence Services. Why it's so hard to believe these career professionals when they say they had LEGITIMATE concerns about the president's activities, statements and entanglements is jaw-dropping to say the least. Except that we've been getting fed this drivel here at FL for many moons now.

Donald Trump has spent his adult life running from, attacking, deflecting, vilifying and ducking for cover from law enforcement. He's been entangled in more legal fights, and lost a considerable number of them...

Based on your criteria for initiating investigations, they better be investigating the newest Congressperson from MN as a potential suicide bomber.

What is this county coming to? I heard her shout Allah Akbar in Congress! I bet she has a suicide bomb under her head dress!