Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[old salt]

There you may have some very high salaries (I just looked up Aspen and the reported annual salaries for such are in the range of $21K to $35K).

Just sent a note to the bar manager at the Little Nell in Aspen..the best hotel there.

Starting salary for a new housekeeping hire in 2021? $16 an hour. At the best hotel in the most expensive city in the State.

Vance is lying.

Yeah. Big difference between $16 & $18 /hr. Vance must be lying.

[jhu72]

But I find it hilarious that JD Vance thinks he can make up those numbers, quote a fake CEO anonymously...and get away with it.

Vance is lying. That conversation never happened. Anyone remember Stephen Glass?

Only WP & NYT reporters can get away with that stuff.

Nope. They get called out for it. Specifically, YOU called them to task for this practice dozens of times.

Now that you like the message? Your bar for journalism goes way.

In all seriousness, I think you simply weren't paying attention.

Re the Glass comparison -- what in Vance's previous public utterances supports that comparison ?

I don't know what you mean here. The analogy I was making was Glass making up stories and interviewees that didn't exist....fabricating stories from whole cloth.

What is your basis for asserting that Vance fabricated that story from whole cloth ?
Was the authenticity of anything in his book challenged ?
obtw, the WP just published a high profile correction.

So, they corrected?

The supposed large hotel chain CEO's figures appear quite implausible: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/H ... y-per-Hour

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Hotel-Cleani ... s/salaries
It sounds like an imagined and/or highly exaggerated conversation.
As of Mar 15, 2021, the average hourly pay for a Hotel Housekeeping in the United States is $10.41 an hour.

"While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $12.98 and as low as $7.69, the majority of Hotel Housekeeping wages currently range between $9.13 (25th percentile) to $11.06 (75th percentile) across the United States. The average pay range for a Hotel Housekeeping varies greatly (by as much as $1.92), which suggests there may be many opportunities for advancement and increased pay based on skill level, location and years of experience."

Again, these are the #'s...ask Trump what he pays house cleaners at his 'high end' hotels and golf clubs and buildings...

... he pays them? You certain? I would have guessed he just finds a way to beat them out of it.

[a fan]

There you may have some very high salaries (I just looked up Aspen and the reported annual salaries for such are in the range of $21K to $35K).

Just sent a note to the bar manager at the Little Nell in Aspen..the best hotel there.

Starting salary for a new housekeeping hire in 2021? $16 an hour. At the best hotel in the most expensive city in the State.

Vance is lying.

Yeah. Big difference between $16 & $18 /hr. Vance must be lying.

Nope. That wasn't Vances claim.

He claimed:

-he couldn't get housekeepers to stay UNLESS he paid $20 an hour, remember?
-this salary was claimed to be across the chain, where (obviously), not every city has a cost of living as high as Aspen's.

I just gave you the most expensive hotel, in the most expensive city in my State...and they're paying a full 20% less than what the fake CEO in Vance's story is claiming he needs to pay. And other posters already showed you that most hotel chains pay about $11 an hour for housekeepers. Because of course they do. That's why immigrants make up the bulk of their workers. It's a low paying job.

Dude. If I told you that Maddow was making this claim? You'd be able to see the lie instantly. But because Vance is on your "team", you're on here arguing about what is an obvious lie for multiple posts.

Just stop.

[MDlaxfan76]

There you may have some very high salaries (I just looked up Aspen and the reported annual salaries for such are in the range of $21K to $35K).

Just sent a note to the bar manager at the Little Nell in Aspen..the best hotel there.

Starting salary for a new housekeeping hire in 2021? $16 an hour. At the best hotel in the most expensive city in the State.

Vance is lying.

Yeah. Big difference between $16 & $18 /hr. Vance must be lying.

large hotel chain with locations only in places like Aspen...doesn't add up...nope, average pay is down under $12 for this work in America...Vance either heard incorrectly or is exaggerating...or is flat making it up.

Must be tough, Salty, to learn that Sid was lying...and to see Flynn go so far off the deep end...now you have to defend Vance and Baker...

[old salt]

What did Vance do that needs defending, other than disagreeing with you ? Quick, make something up.

Claiming that I'm defending Baker just demonstrates what a McCarthyite liar you are.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What did Vance do that needs defending, other than disagreeing with you ? Quick, make something up.

Claiming that I'm defending Baker just demonstrates what a McCarthyite liar you are.

sand through the hour glass.

[old salt]

Bidens border lies :

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/03/ ... rder-lies/

Politics isn’t a particularly honest business, but still, the mendacity about the border crisis is off the charts.

It’s been astonishing — and maddening — to watch Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas say the Trump policy was to turn away kids and abandon them in the desert.

There is no way that he doesn’t know that this is false, and indeed when called on it by Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday last weekend, he didn’t push back.

Yet, President Biden repeated the same line at his press conference Thursday, and took it to another level by saying that kids were left to starve in the desert.

Starve in the desert! What kind of monsters does he think U.S. Border Patrol agents are?

We warned right after the election, “Joe Biden shouldn’t want to begin his administration with a renewed migrant crisis at the border, but that’s what his priorities risk creating.”
We’ve excoriated the Biden team for denying that the crisis is a crisis.

And to get on the record, in extensive detail, what worked at the border in the Trump administration and why it’s foolish to throw it away...

...the most unreported story is the story of a GOP success.

This was an important one, and it’s not only being ignored, it’s being lied about.

No, the Trump administration didn’t send kids into the desert — it returned them to their home countries.

No, it didn’t dismantle our immigration system — it found an approach at the border that worked.

No, it didn’t irresponsibly close shelters at the border — it shut down surge facilities when they were no longer needed, and under intense political pressure from the Democrats.

The reflex to ignore and distort reality on this issue is incredibly strong...

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-lying/

The Biden press conference was a train wreck and disgrace on the border. He repeated the Alejandro Mayorkas line that Trump was just pushing unaccompanied minors back into Mexico, when the truth is that they were flown home and handed over to social-service agencies in their countries. He then went even further, referring to Trump letting minors starve and die. He maintained that Trump hadn’t diminished the flow at the border, which is completely false. He gave no indication of any serious plan for us to do a better job of policing our own border, instead emphasizing building more shelters to house the migrants who are coming in record numbers. And he missed the point when a reporter asked a question about a small boy from Central America whose mother told the reporter she had sent him because she believed that Biden would let him into the United States. This performance would be roasted from beginning to end by fact-checkers — if they had any integrity.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/03/ ... term=first

...Cecilia Vega of ABC News politely nailed him to the wall on a key failure of his border policy.
She told an affecting story of meeting a nine-year-old boy at the border who had walked to the U.S. from Honduras, and said that when she called the boy’s mother, the woman explained that she had sent him to the U.S. because she believed that Biden would let him into the country.

This, of course, is exactly why there’s been a surge at the border. Biden created an exemption in Title 42 — the public-health authority that President Trump had used to turn back migrants during the pandemic — specifically for minors, and predictably there’s been a surge of minors.

In evading this reality throughout the press conference, Biden resorted to a haze of misrepresentations, and inadvertently exposed the senselessness of his own policy.

In response to Vega, he echoed a distortion often made by his Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and said that Trump had dumped children into the Mexican desert. Except Biden made the charge even more lurid by alleging that Trump had let children starve to death.

This is a disgraceful and stupid charge. The Trump administration either flew back migrants to their home countries directly or handed them over to Mexican authorities to do the same. No one was pushed into the desert.

Also, in response to Vega, he said that the nine-year-old boy should be returned to his mother in Honduras. But that was precisely the Trump policy that Biden overturned and now falsely portrays as inhumane. Under Biden’s policy, that nine-year-old is likely in an HHS detention facility and will not be returned home, instead placed with the nearest relative that can be found in the United States.

If Biden wants to begin returning minors to their families back home, a laudable goal, he could do it immediately — all it takes is reversing himself on Title 42.

The rest of Biden’s statements about the border weren’t any more accurate or sensible.

He said that family units are all being turned back at the border. First, we know this is not true. Reports suggest that most family units are now getting into the United States. Second, it’s not clear why this stated policy of returning family units wouldn’t, on Biden’s terms, be just as immoral as returning minors.

He said that the reason even more family units aren’t being returned is that Mexico can’t take more of them. Again, if it’s okay to send migrants back into Mexico, it makes no sense that Biden ended Trump’s “Remain in Mexico” program, which had asylum-seekers waiting in Mexico while their asylum claims were adjudicated in the United States.

Biden said that Trump’s policies had no effect at the border. This is demonstrably false. Trump had gotten control of the border prior to the onset of the pandemic.

He blamed Trump for reducing shelters for migrants, a truly absurd charge. Trump only closed the surge facilities set up during the crisis of 2018–2019 because they were no longer needed, and, besides, Democrats agitated to shut down these facilities.

Overall, Biden gave no indication that he understands how he has stoked the current crisis or that he knows how to address it. His emphasis was on improved processing of the migrants that are coming, rather than persuading them to stay home. That will inevitably mean more families in Central America deciding to send their children on the harrowing journey north, whether Biden wants to acknowledge it or not.

[MDlaxfan76]

There you may have some very high salaries (I just looked up Aspen and the reported annual salaries for such are in the range of $21K to $35K).

Just sent a note to the bar manager at the Little Nell in Aspen..the best hotel there.

Starting salary for a new housekeeping hire in 2021? $16 an hour. At the best hotel in the most expensive city in the State.

Vance is lying.

Yeah. Big difference between $16 & $18 /hr. Vance must be lying.

large hotel chain with locations only in places like Aspen...doesn't add up...nope, average pay is down under $12 for this work in America...Vance either heard incorrectly or is exaggerating...or is flat making it up.

Must be tough, Salty, to learn that Sid was lying...and to see Flynn go so far off the deep end...now you have to defend Vance and Baker...

User avatarold salt
Posts: 9859
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:44 am
Contact: Contact old salt
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
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Unread post by old salt » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:46 pm

What did Vance do that needs defending, other than disagreeing with you ? Quick, make something up.

Claiming that I'm defending Baker just demonstrates what a McCarthyite liar you are.

hmmm, re Vance, see above...you're not defending him?

Re Baker, you're not defending?

How about Sid and Flynn?

[kramerica.inc]

Who built the cages, Joe? Who filled the cages, Joe?
The most children ever detained by border agents: 17K. Right now.

Biden is to blame for the border crisis
In his desperation to reject all things Trump, Joe Biden has created a humanitarian disaster.

The recent surge of illegal immigrants at the US-Mexico border has reached a crisis point. At the current pace, about two million people from Mexico and Central America will be apprehended this year. That’s roughly equivalent to the population of Houston, the US’s fourth largest city. The numbers are likely to reach levels not seen since two decades ago.

It’s not really the scale of illegal immigration per se that has caused this crisis – it’s that the Biden administration and border-enforcement authorities were completely unprepared. Now they are overwhelmed. The most acute humanitarian problem is the arrival of thousands of unaccompanied children, whose numbers have skyrocketed since Joe Biden entered the White House in January. Some 17,000 migrant children are being held – the highest ever.

In 2019, Donald Trump was lambasted by the Democrats and the media for putting ‘kids in cages’. Now photos and reports from the border show kids sleeping on top of one another in cramped, grim cells. The administration euphemistically calls them ‘overflow facilities’, but they are really Biden’s own ‘kids in cages’. And the wait-times for children in these border holding stations often extend past the 72-hour legal limit.


The Biden team has denied that it faces a crisis, preferring to describe the situation as a ‘challenge’. But you do not send the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), as Biden has done, to help with otherwise smooth operations. The reality is that officials are scrambling to address all-out chaos. The Department of Homeland Security is frantically seeking to set up new temporary accommodations, including converting the San Diego Convention Center into a shelter, and renting out hotel rooms.

All the while, the Biden administration has sought to prevent journalists from getting too close to seeing what is really going on. All media inquiries must go via Washington, and it has introduced an effective gag order on local border patrol from speaking with the media. So much for transparency.

...

This is a crisis of Biden’s making. So far, he has pretended there is no crisis, ignored advice on the ground, deployed Orwellian phrases like ‘overflow facilities’, tried to pin the surge on Trump, censored the media, and, most recently, put Kamala Harris in charge.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/2 ... er-crisis/

[old salt]

How about Sid and Flynn?

No support post election. Notice that nothing's come forward linking Flynn to Jan 6

[PizzaSnake]

Flynn is a wh*re who sold himself to Turkey for a little silver... POS. Actually, that's an insult to wh*res... He's just a POS.

[a fan]

Who built the cages, Joe? Who filled the cages, Joe?
The most children ever detained by border agents: 17K. Right now.

Biden is to blame for the border crisis
In his desperation to reject all things Trump, Joe Biden has created a humanitarian disaster.

What do you think he's going to do?

Hint: you're going to complain about his solution. But sure, go ahead and tell him to fix this "crisis", so he moves quickly.


Next time, hold your party accountable for fixing problems. Because no matter what Dems do about these issues that you're concerned about? You're going to complain, and tell us it's wrong, right?

Trump and your team ran on this stuff. And did NOTHING to fix the actual problem...with four years to work on it. So now that you've lost, you and OS and others are going to spend the next four years telling us that Biden is bad, and doing it wrong.

And if the Dems don't hold Biden accountable for fixing things? Guess what's coming down the pike? So far? They're not holding him responsible for anything.

[kramerica.inc]

Who built the cages, Joe? Who filled the cages, Joe?
The most children ever detained by border agents: 17K. Right now.

Biden is to blame for the border crisis
In his desperation to reject all things Trump, Joe Biden has created a humanitarian disaster.

What do you think he's going to do?

Hint: you're going to complain about his solution. But sure, go ahead and tell him to fix this "crisis", so he moves quickly.


Next time, hold your party accountable for fixing problems. Because no matter what Dems do about these issues that you're concerned about? You're going to complain, and tell us it's wrong, right?

Trump and your team ran on this stuff. And did NOTHING to fix the actual problem...with four years to work on it. So now that you've lost, you and OS and others are going to spend the next four years telling us that Biden is bad, and doing it wrong.

And if the Dems don't hold Biden accountable for fixing things? Guess what's coming down the pike? So far? They're not holding him responsible for anything.

I've been straight on this one for about 10 years.
Immigration is a problem no politician wanted to fix, or even address (before Trump)
Was his solution perfect? or achievable? Nope.

My question remains- Why are there so many more children coming now?
Whose policies are encouraging the run on the border?
Why the media gag order?

[a fan]

I've been straight on this one for about 10 years.
Immigration is a problem no politician wanted to fix, or even address (before Trump)

Complete and total buffalo bagels. Every single President since Reagan has "addressed" the immigration problem. YouTube clips, speeches, and newspaper articles abound with Presidents "talking" about the immigration problem.

Please. Don't give me this nonsense that Trump addressed it. This is right up there with "Trump stood up to China". Yeah: no. He didn't. And everything Trump promised to make better with China, is now worse.

My question remains- Why are there so many more children coming now?

Because the last six Presidents failed to simply fix the problem. And since 1997, each President failed to flip the switch on Everify.

Remember 9/11? You had the ENTIRE US citizenry behind the idea of security, and of securing our borders. Did Bush flip the swicth then, when NO ONE would have complained, except far right or far left nut jobs? F no. Why actually address why they are coming here, right?

But sure, it's on Biden now. And yep, if all you want to do is focus on a few hundred thousand people coming.....while willfully, and intentionally ignoring the millions that are already here illegally, as well as the entire reason these people keep coming (jobs)?

Sure. Dems are bad. Biden is bad. It's on Biden now.

If the Republican voters-----and heck, just the Republican media-----had DEMANDED immigration reform? You would have gotten reform.

What did you demand instead? You demanded "the libs are bad, and at least Trump isn't as bad as the libs'.

So guess what you got? You got "not as bad as the libs". You got EXACTLY what you asked for.....

[kramerica.inc]

Again, why are they all coming NOW?

Why the record numbers NOW?

You know the answer.

[a fan]

Again, why are they all coming NOW?

Same reason they've been coming for the last fifty years: they can get work, and the people that they work for are never punished for breaking the law.

Why the record numbers NOW?

Already answered the question.

Because Trump ran on fixing immigration, and didn't pass any laws, or turn on Everify on, and fix the actual problem.

You think it's a big deal if 200K come up from the South instead of 400K in a year. I don't. There isn't a material difference, so long as you ignore the above.

So for me? When I hear FoxNation whine about immigration? I laugh.

I simply don't care. Your party---and the media that serves them----are playing you. All they want is your vote. They have no intention of fixing the problem....which is exactly what I told Old Salt four years ago. He didn't want to hear it.

Four years later, shocker of all shockers......you guys are back here telling me immigration is a crisis.

I don't want to hear it. Your party had their chance, and I'm not goin to point fingers at Biden for a problem that Trump swore he'd fix.

Sorry.

Want the funny part? You and Old Salt have no difficulty whatsoever in understanding that Biden won't fix the problem.

[kramerica.inc]

So Trump didn’t “fix” the problem but this historic surge occurs as soon as Trump leaves office and Biden announces his policy.

2019 there were 980k apprehended.

The estimate for this year is 2 Million. But Trump’s to blame.

Immigrants know they will get a free pass from Biden.

Who’s shoveling Buffalo bagels, Todd?

[a fan]

So Trump didn’t “fix” the problem but this historic surge occurs as soon as Trump leaves office and Biden announces his policy.

2019 there were 980k apprehended.

The estimate for this year is 2 Million. But Trump’s to blame.

No, no. That's not what I'm saying.

If you want to focus on the folks coming over the southern border RIGHT NOW? Sure. Some of it hangs on Biden, sure. You can hang the "surge over the average at the Southern Border" on Biden 100%. Yep, that's on Biden.

My point is...who give a F about that piddly number, when we're not doing a thing about the 10-12 Million already here. Is 12 million a larger number, or a smaller number than the number of people who came across the Southern Border in the last 90ish days under Biden's rule?

Bigger, right?

Immigrants know they will get a free pass from Biden.

And what the F do you think that 10-12 million who were already in America under Trump thought?

How hard do you think Trump's illegal employees at Mar a Lago etc. were laughing when Trump claimed he was some tough guy when it came to illegal immigration?

Dude. Come on. These immigrants kept right on coming under Trump. And I don't even know who the next President is....and I can already wager you $10K that they'll keep right on coming under the next POTUS unless you do something to change WHY they are coming.

Flip on EVerify, and throw offending businesses in jail. Do that? It's game over. No reason to come here anymore. Numbers will finally go down, and a whole host of things will get better.

Until then? All you're doing is slowing illegal immigration.

And yes, flipping on EVerify is on Biden now. You want to blame him for that? I'm on board. But then you'd have to blame ol' Trump-pants for not doing the same.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08 ... ed-workers

[kramerica.inc]

Until then? All you're doing is slowing illegal immigration.

And yes, flipping on EVerify is on Biden now. You want to blame him for that? I'm on board. But then you'd have to blame ol' Trump-pants for not doing the same.

Agree. But why is “only” slowing illegal immigration bad?

We’ve had an avg of 200-400k per year in previous administrations. On pace for a record high of 2M right now.
Why?

Biden’s policies.

Illegals knew they would/could be caught and sent back. There was risk in being here illegally. Now the policy rewards illegals for not only being here but children being found parent less. Biden may have had good intentions but his policies are what’s driving this surge. A bad problem has gotten worse.

[jhu72]

Until then? All you're doing is slowing illegal immigration.

And yes, flipping on EVerify is on Biden now. You want to blame him for that? I'm on board. But then you'd have to blame ol' Trump-pants for not doing the same.

Agree. But why is “only” slowing illegal immigration bad?

We’ve had an avg of 200-400k per year in previous administrations. On pace for a record high of 2M right now.
Why?

Biden’s policies.

Illegals knew they would/could be caught and sent back. There was risk in being here illegally. Now the policy rewards illegals for not only being here but children being found parent less. Biden may have had good intentions but his policies are what’s driving this surge. A bad problem has gotten worse.

... unless you consider migration is seasonal, always has been; and
... this season the US is vaccinating people like crazy, COVID is becoming less a concern; and
... against health expert advice, the USA is opening up helter skelter which means JOBS; and then you might want to consider
... the increase in Central American violence. Violence drives Central American migration.

I don't think it is a simple as you seem to think. Kids traveling alone have been asked the question why are they traveling now, they never answer because Joe Biden is president or because the current president is soft, in fact they don't even know that the border is now softer according to reporters talking to the kids. I am sure some are aware and this likely adds to the numbers, but it is not all the numbers.