How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball

[Typical Lax Dad]

Don't have to watch any YouTube videos, russy, played in plenty of games in the 60s and 70s, I know there was more hitting. Coaches coached to make sure that attackman paid a price when he came near the crease, and if the hit was maybe a second late there was no flag thrown. Was viewed much more as the way the game was played. What look like clean hits in today's game but still draw a flag wouldn't have in the days of yore. There is absolutely no denying that the game has been made "safer" for today's lacrosse player. In the same breath you'll tell me the the old game wasn't a rougher game, you'll tell me it's no more difficult for a D man to dislodge the ball from an O man's stick and give me an example of one guy who is exceptionally proficient at it. Neither statement is true.

THE SAME. Same roughness. Plenty of hitting in todays game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqrXsOgEzg

Game needed a shot clock back then.

[ColumbiaBlueBlack]

Don't have to watch any YouTube videos, russy, played in plenty of games in the 60s and 70s, I know there was more hitting. Coaches coached to make sure that attackman paid a price when he came near the crease, and if the hit was maybe a second late there was no flag thrown. Was viewed much more as the way the game was played. What look like clean hits in today's game but still draw a flag wouldn't have in the days of yore. There is absolutely no denying that the game has been made "safer" for today's lacrosse player. In the same breath you'll tell me the the old game wasn't a rougher game, you'll tell me it's no more difficult for a D man to dislodge the ball from an O man's stick and give me an example of one guy who is exceptionally proficient at it. Neither statement is true.

THE SAME. Same roughness. Plenty of hitting in todays game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqrXsOgEzg

Game needed a shot clock back then.

No. Back then the defense had a reasonable chance to dislodge the ball playing straight up. That hasn't been true for decades now. Remember, the fast break comes from the groundball, whether off a faceoff or when the D recovers it and can move the ball out.

[runrussellrun]

Don't have to watch any YouTube videos, russy, played in plenty of games in the 60s and 70s, I know there was more hitting. Coaches coached to make sure that attackman paid a price when he came near the crease, and if the hit was maybe a second late there was no flag thrown. Was viewed much more as the way the game was played. What look like clean hits in today's game but still draw a flag wouldn't have in the days of yore. There is absolutely no denying that the game has been made "safer" for today's lacrosse player. In the same breath you'll tell me the the old game wasn't a rougher game, you'll tell me it's no more difficult for a D man to dislodge the ball from an O man's stick and give me an example of one guy who is exceptionally proficient at it. Neither statement is true.

THE SAME. Same roughness. Plenty of hitting in todays game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqrXsOgEzg

Game needed a shot clock back then.

No. Back then the defense had a reasonable chance to dislodge the ball playing straight up. That hasn't been true for decades now. Remember, the fast break comes from the groundball, whether off a faceoff or when the D recovers it and can move the ball out.

So true.....fast breaks NEVER come off a save and outlet pass. I don't even know what playing "straight up" means.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Don't have to watch any YouTube videos, russy, played in plenty of games in the 60s and 70s, I know there was more hitting. Coaches coached to make sure that attackman paid a price when he came near the crease, and if the hit was maybe a second late there was no flag thrown. Was viewed much more as the way the game was played. What look like clean hits in today's game but still draw a flag wouldn't have in the days of yore. There is absolutely no denying that the game has been made "safer" for today's lacrosse player. In the same breath you'll tell me the the old game wasn't a rougher game, you'll tell me it's no more difficult for a D man to dislodge the ball from an O man's stick and give me an example of one guy who is exceptionally proficient at it. Neither statement is true.

THE SAME. Same roughness. Plenty of hitting in todays game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqrXsOgEzg

Game needed a shot clock back then.

No. Back then the defense had a reasonable chance to dislodge the ball playing straight up. That hasn't been true for decades now. Remember, the fast break comes from the groundball, whether off a faceoff or when the D recovers it and can move the ball out.

It was sarcasm.....

[ColumbiaBlueBlack]

So true.....fast breaks NEVER come off a save and outlet pass. I don't even know what playing "straight up" means.

Right, "when the D recovers it and can move the ball out" is bad sentence construction and poorly descriptive, too bad One L is no longer around to rap me on the knuckles. By "straight up" I meant more man-to-man, fewer zone concepts, which is not to say that the Fred Smith/Bill Tierney defenses didn't use zone concepts, just fewer of them.

[fitzlax]

Asked this question earlier but it's way back there and buried, so I'll ask it again.
Penalty is called (one minute in the box variety), the O is given a new 80 seconds. In the first 20 seconds of possession (after a save or TO) players can go over and back. When the team gets a new 80 on the clock on the penalty in their own end, could they take the ball beyond the mid field line for the first 20 sec of that possession?

The rules treat all cases where the the shot clock is set to 80 the same way. In all cases of a new shot clock, here's the wording.

Advancing the Ball into the Offensive Half of the Field
SECTION 16. a. Upon gaining possession of the ball an 80-second visible shot
clock shall start. The team in possession must have the ball in their offensive
half of the field when the shot clock reaches 60 seconds. Failing to do so will
result in a turnover. Possession will be awarded to the opposing team at the spot
where the ball was when the whistle blew to stop play. A ball in flight from the
defensive half of the field to the offensive half of the field that passes through
the plane of the midline prior to the shot clock reaching 60 seconds satisfies
the rule. The officials will enforce this rule by using the visible 80-second shot
clock.

[DMac]

Thank you. Not really a whole lot of situations when you'd want to do that, but I was wondering if you could if you wanted to. Maybe Desko should have tried that play tonight, wasn't much else working.

[runrussellrun]

Asked this question earlier but it's way back there and buried, so I'll ask it again.
Penalty is called (one minute in the box variety), the O is given a new 80 seconds. In the first 20 seconds of possession (after a save or TO) players can go over and back. When the team gets a new 80 on the clock on the penalty in their own end, could they take the ball beyond the mid field line for the first 20 sec of that possession?

The rules treat all cases where the the shot clock is set to 80 the same way. In all cases of a new shot clock, here's the wording.

Advancing the Ball into the Offensive Half of the Field
SECTION 16. a. Upon gaining possession of the ball an 80-second visible shot
clock shall start. The team in possession must have the ball in their offensive
half of the field when the shot clock reaches 60 seconds. Failing to do so will
result in a turnover. Possession will be awarded to the opposing team at the spot
where the ball was when the whistle blew to stop play. A ball in flight from the
defensive half of the field to the offensive half of the field that passes through
the plane of the midline prior to the shot clock reaching 60 seconds satisfies
the rule. The officials will enforce this rule by using the visible 80-second shot
clock.

Refs are no longer wearing the beepers? (20 seconds)

[Typical Lax Dad]

I can’t imagine how the Lehigh vs Hofstra game would have looked if the coaches had a stranglehold on the game like they did last year under the old rules. Good thing the game has been handed over to the players!

[runrussellrun]

I can’t imagine how the Lehigh vs Hofstra game would have looked if the coaches had a stranglehold on the game like they did last year under the old rules. Good thing the game has been handed over to the players!

Guess you missed all the other scores Especially the nitme lions rout of robbyMO. (which I love, this isn't 3rd & 4th grade pay to play summer club ball, where a bunch of repeat 5th graders....ok, only three on the team.....play in the AA division at "you're special" tip top "recruiting" tourney)

Shot clock puts EVERYONE on an equal playing field, regarding the subjective REFS and the zebras "scout" on when to call the "shot clock" (in the past)

Look no further than the poorly kept (hence not easy to find) stats when it comes to, say, Quinny or Wagner getting a "shot clock" call versus, say Denver or the Terps.
If you think there was CONsistency, in any way, shape or form. try again.
2018 RobbyMO nit me lion game had ZERO "timer ons" called. One called when Nitme Lions played Terps. SIX called in Rutgers game.

Also in 2018, first Terps game of the season, with a FIVE goal lead against Navy, with just under 9 minutes to play, the zebras called THREE timer on/shot clocks.....in the 4th quarter alone. ...blah blah blah.

Historically, the lack of CONsistency of the timer on/shot clock was a joke (anyone remember the Richmond/Duke quick calls? ) The poor record keeping, which will continue as the shot clock violations aren't kept (b/c lacrosse isn't smart enough to add it )

The very simple, 80 second change of possession is SO MUCH better for the game.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I can’t imagine how the Lehigh vs Hofstra game would have looked if the coaches had a stranglehold on the game like they did last year under the old rules. Good thing the game has been handed over to the players!

Guess you missed all the other scores Especially the nitme lions rout of robbyMO. (which I love, this isn't 3rd & 4th grade pay to play summer club ball, where a bunch of repeat 5th graders....ok, only three on the team.....play in the AA division at "you're special" tip top "recruiting" tourney)

Shot clock puts EVERYONE on an equal playing field, regarding the subjective REFS and the zebras "scout" on when to call the "shot clock" (in the past)

Look no further than the poorly kept (hence not easy to find) stats when it comes to, say, Quinny or Wagner getting a "shot clock" call versus, say Denver or the Terps.
If you think there was CONsistency, in any way, shape or form. try again.
2018 RobbyMO nit me lion game had ZERO "timer ons" called. One called when Nitme Lions played Terps. SIX called in Rutgers game.

Also in 2018, first Terps game of the season, with a FIVE goal lead against Navy, with just under 9 minutes to play, the zebras called THREE timer on/shot clocks.....in the 4th quarter alone. ...blah blah blah.

Historically, the lack of CONsistency of the timer on/shot clock was a joke (anyone remember the Richmond/Duke quick calls? ) The poor record keeping, which will continue as the shot clock violations aren't kept (b/c lacrosse isn't smart enough to add it )

The very simple, 80 second change of possession is SO MUCH better for the game.

Goalies have been unbelievable! I saw UVA, Maryland, Syracuse and Hopkins getting up and down! They all broke 25 goals also. The fast break goals have been excellent. Lefty and right breaks have been text book. Far more this year than last year when teams walked the ball up!

Cornell broke 20+ goals twice last season. My guess is they will break 30 under the new fast paced rules! Shots must be way up. He’ll Syracuse put up 25 shots on Friday. Lightening fast pace!

[runrussellrun]

With you...the Eeyore sarcasism cloud follows nothing ........that is being discussed.

I was talking about the LACK of consistency for the timer on/shot clock.

You wanna talk about the lack of fastbreak goals, how do you even quantify that? (lax stats are lacking, we track "man up" goals, but NOT fast break/unsettled goals....like Richmonds 2nd goal, after the Terps SSD dislodged the ball, but Terps didn't pick up GB.... )

[Typical Lax Dad]

With you...the Eeyore sarcasism cloud follows nothing ........that is being discussed.

I was talking about the LACK of consistency for the timer on/shot clock.

You wanna talk about the lack of fastbreak goals, how do you even quantify that? (lax stats are lacking, we track "man up" goals, but NOT fast break/unsettled goals....like Richmonds 2nd goal, after the Terps SSD dislodged the ball, but Terps didn't pick up GB.... )

Plenty of lack of consistency in officiating a sport. Ask Sean Payton.

[Typical Lax Dad]

With you...the Eeyore sarcasism cloud follows nothing ........that is being discussed.

I was talking about the LACK of consistency for the timer on/shot clock.

You wanna talk about the lack of fastbreak goals, how do you even quantify that? (lax stats are lacking, we track "man up" goals, but NOT fast break/unsettled goals....like Richmonds 2nd goal, after the Terps SSD dislodged the ball, but Terps didn't pick up GB.... )

I don’t need a stat to track it. I have eyes in my head.

[runrussellrun]

Also, how the F can that NOT be a penalty on Richmond when Shollingberger scores that man up goal? He almost gets decapatated. No yellow flies. Pathetic.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Also, how the F can that NOT be a penalty on Richmond when Shollingberger scores that man up goal? He almost gets decapatated. No yellow flies. Pathetic.

It’s not pathetic...it’s inconsistent!

[runrussellrun]

With you...the Eeyore sarcasism cloud follows nothing ........that is being discussed.

I was talking about the LACK of consistency for the timer on/shot clock.

You wanna talk about the lack of fastbreak goals, how do you even quantify that? (lax stats are lacking, we track "man up" goals, but NOT fast break/unsettled goals....like Richmonds 2nd goal, after the Terps SSD dislodged the ball, but Terps didn't pick up GB.... )

I don’t need a stat to track it. I have eyes in my head.

Define a fast break goal?
When 'Cuse scored in the final seconds of the 2009 final, was THAT a fast break goal?
Does the ball have to start in the defensive end?
Seriously, what defines a fast break goal in your world?
Who is SEan Payton? Regarding inCONsistency....yup. That is why they instituted the 80 second shot clock. Why do YOU think it happened? Because bill tierney wanted it?

[runrussellrun]

Also, how the F can that NOT be a penalty on Richmond when Shollingberger scores that man up goal? He almost gets decapatated. No yellow flies. Pathetic.

It’s not pathetic...it’s inconsistent!

No....it's pathetic. More penalties were called in the era some you love so much. 70's & 80's. ( me too, but NOT at the scorning of todays great game)

It's just a fact. Two refs don't see the pole "chocking" Shollingberger? weak sauce to blame it on consistency, or lack there of. Why have refs? I thought rules ....and enforcing them.....was all about safety?

[Typical Lax Dad]

With you...the Eeyore sarcasism cloud follows nothing ........that is being discussed.

I was talking about the LACK of consistency for the timer on/shot clock.

You wanna talk about the lack of fastbreak goals, how do you even quantify that? (lax stats are lacking, we track "man up" goals, but NOT fast break/unsettled goals....like Richmonds 2nd goal, after the Terps SSD dislodged the ball, but Terps didn't pick up GB.... )

I don’t need a stat to track it. I have eyes in my head.

Define a fast break goal?
When 'Cuse scored in the final seconds of the 2009 final, was THAT a fast break goal?
Does the ball have to start in the defensive end?
Seriously, what defines a fast break goal in your world?
Who is SEan Payton? Regarding inCONsistency....yup. That is why they instituted the 80 second shot clock. Why do YOU think it happened? Because bill tierney wanted it?

The reason for the “clock” kept changing every year...Tierney got the dive back. I can ask him when I see him. How do you install your fast and slow break on your team? That’s a fast and slow break.

[runrussellrun]

Answer the question, what do YOU think a fast break goal is? I gave you a very specific in game scenario, granted from 10 years ago.
How about a fogo clean win forward, is THAT a fb break goal? I want to know what YOU call it?