All things CoronaVirus

[wgdsr]

Yes, the fact that the T**** administration passed on the option to contract for more Pfizer and Moderna supply has been well documented.

I just don’t get it. Even if you end up with excess supply, you certainly could sell it around the world.

what was publicized wasn't that. we extended both with pfizer and moderna already. one option for each. 100 million in 2nd quarter.

joe's extension looks to be for 3rd quarter for each. when pfizer offered for more in q4 20, they wouldn't promise any timetable. we got a promised delivery in q2 21 with our december? option.

in pfizer's case, they seem pretty hardline on being independent so they couldn't be told what to do by a gov't. it's why they didn't take gov't upfront development $. dpa would've been messy there.

[wgdsr]

In terms of public relations, I would think it would’ve been a positive, to be able to say to the American people during the fall campaign that we have contracted for such and such amount of vaccine so that if and when it is approved, we will have enough in very short order to get everybody vaccinated.

talking about globally. already a hubub about 1st world countries taking vaccine vs underdeveloped nations. joe saw that and while campaigning jumped on the side of covavax? and get it to the world. haven't heard much about that out of him for a while.

we would've had to have been taking eu, canada, others' supply to do us 1st.

[njbill]

US passed up on the options earlier than that.

And those were simply consensual agreements or potential agreements, not involving the DPA.

Yes, the DPA would be messy. It usually is. But this is a national emergency. Frankly, it is messy for the companies because they don’t have as much leverage and are being forced to do things. Not really so messy for the US.

[wgdsr]

US passed up on the options earlier than that.

And those were simply consensual agreements or potential agreements, not involving the DPA.

Yes, the DPA would be messy. It usually is. But this is a national emergency. Frankly, it is messy for the companies because they don’t have as much leverage and are being forced to do things. Not really so messy for the US.

we haven't missed out on any u.s. production options.

what i mean by late summer is... no other country had given either co. money (or not substantive) by then. there still weren't any results for efficacy. but the eu wrote for european production from each around that time. i don't even know if either company would've allowed us to corner the market on european production, but prior to that would've been our chance. to take it all.

[njbill]

Well, if the US gets one dose, that’s one dose that is taken away from the rest of the world. Not really a relevant analysis. Unfortunately, the situation we are in is that we have to look out for ourselves first.

[njbill]

US passed up on the options earlier than that.

And those were simply consensual agreements or potential agreements, not involving the DPA.

Yes, the DPA would be messy. It usually is. But this is a national emergency. Frankly, it is messy for the companies because they don’t have as much leverage and are being forced to do things. Not really so messy for the US.

we haven't missed out on any u.s. production options.

what i mean by late summer is... no other country had given either co. money (or not substantive) by then. there still weren't any results for efficacy. but the eu wrote for european production from each around that time. i don't even know if either company would've allowed us to corner the market on european production, but prior to that would've been our chance. to take it all.

But we didn’t enter into sufficient options. That’s my point.

And we didn’t invoke the DPA, if necessary, and it’s clear it was necessary.

Just to add, Biden invoked the DPA in his first week in office. No reason T**** couldn’t have done so back in April, May, June.

[wgdsr]

US passed up on the options earlier than that.

And those were simply consensual agreements or potential agreements, not involving the DPA.

Yes, the DPA would be messy. It usually is. But this is a national emergency. Frankly, it is messy for the companies because they don’t have as much leverage and are being forced to do things. Not really so messy for the US.

we haven't missed out on any u.s. production options.

what i mean by late summer is... no other country had given either co. money (or not substantive) by then. there still weren't any results for efficacy. but the eu wrote for european production from each around that time. i don't even know if either company would've allowed us to corner the market on european production, but prior to that would've been our chance. to take it all.

But we didn’t enter into sufficient options. That’s my point.

And we didn’t invoke the DPA, if necessary, and it’s clear it was necessary.

ok. i don't know all the ins and outs but i have been paying attention. there is a whole nationalist thing going around, too. at a lot of places. and biontech (germany) developed pfizer's vaccine.

i have zero idea whether either company would've allowed us to come storming in and taken other countries' production. even if hq was in u.s. i would assume the eurozone would have a problem with that. and invoke their own dpa's. i believe we are getting if not all, the giant lion's share of all u.s. production.

[njbill]

I don’t know how the DPA would work in the context of a multinational company that has already entered into contracts with other countries. It would seem unlikely that even under the DPA we could “force” a company to violate existing contracts.

But I wouldn’t be advocating that. What I am suggesting is essentially two things. One, we should have entered into contracts and options with the manufacturers very early on, perhaps before they did deals with other countries, using the DPA if necessary. Heck, even we geniuses on this lacrosse forum understood that.

Two, under the DPA, I would imagine we would have the right to “force” companies to manufacture doses for the US while at the same time honoring their existing contracts with other countries. Sure, they would cry “we can’t do it,” but that is an essential purpose of the DPA: to force companies to do things they say they can’t do.

As you say, messy. No doubt about that. Probably was pretty messy for Ford to convert its automobile manufacturing plants to make airplanes during WW II.

[wgdsr]

it would seem more reasonable given the political environment to have pushed all buttons on pushing manufacturing and supply chains in the u.s.

you have said if you give 100% and lose, you can live with that. my only counter has not been that it was impossible, but an unknown (for unique reasons) whether that could be done for vaccines in question.

and for the record, if it was an unknown to the folks in charge (not just me), then you're right.

[njbill]

Fair points.

I like this part the best.

you're right.

[wgdsr]

Fair points.

I like this part the best.

you're right.

of course.

[old salt]

In terms of public relations, I would think it would’ve been a positive, to be able to say to the American people during the fall campaign that we have contracted for such and such amount of vaccine so that if and when it is approved, we will have enough in very short order to get everybody vaccinated.

talking about globally. already a hubub about 1st world countries taking vaccine vs underdeveloped nations. joe saw that and while campaigning jumped on the side of covavax? and get it to the world. haven't heard much about that out of him for a while.

we would've had to have been taking eu, canada, others' supply to do us 1st.

That's right. Check the news from France, Germany & the UK. The vaccines they bet on are not working out as planned. They're beginning to sound desperate & talking about vaccine nationalism. We have 2 reliable effective vaccines with options for a steady supply stream, with a 3rd 1 shot candidate on the horizon which could really accelerate things. Both our brands are still effective vs the new mutations. We still can't get shots in arms (nationwide) faster than the vaccine can be produced. Our goal should be for production (not distribution or inoculation) to be the long pole in the tent. We're not there yet & production is gradually increasing. Count our blessings. The EU is complaining that we got more than our fair share of Biontech-Phizer vaccine. Soon the rest of the world will be accusing us of getting more than our fair share. At Davos there's grousing about rich countries hoarding vaccine. ...& there's rioting in Amsterdam over the curfew & school teachers are on strike in France. The Brits have a higher death rate than we do, but they're still keeping a stiff upper lip.

[njbill]

Is anybody but the Chinese vaccinating other countries right now?

Edit: I see Russia is as well.

[old salt]

Iran just made a massive buy of Russia's Sputnik vaccine. They banned US & EU vaccines as unreliable.

[njbill]

Why would the Iranians trust anything American after T**** breached the nuclear deal?

[cradleandshoot]

In terms of public relations, I would think it would’ve been a positive, to be able to say to the American people during the fall campaign that we have contracted for such and such amount of vaccine so that if and when it is approved, we will have enough in very short order to get everybody vaccinated.

talking about globally. already a hubub about 1st world countries taking vaccine vs underdeveloped nations. joe saw that and while campaigning jumped on the side of covavax? and get it to the world. haven't heard much about that out of him for a while.

we would've had to have been taking eu, canada, others' supply to do us 1st.

That's right. Check the news from France, Germany & the UK. The vaccines they bet on are not working out as planned. They're beginning to sound desperate & talking about vaccine nationalism. We have 2 reliable effective vaccines with options for a steady supply stream, with a 3rd 1 shot candidate on the horizon which could really accelerate things. Both our brands are still effective vs the new mutations. We still can't get shots in arms (nationwide) faster than the vaccine can be produced. Our goal should be for production (not distribution or inoculation) to be the long pole in the tent. We're not there yet & production is gradually increasing. Count our blessings. The EU is complaining that we got more than our fair share of Biontech-Phizer vaccine. Soon the rest of the world will be accusing us of getting more than our fair share. At Davos there's grousing about rich countries hoarding vaccine. ...& there's rioting in Amsterdam over the curfew & school teachers are on strike in France. The Brits have a higher death rate than we do, but they're still keeping a stiff upper lip.

Jolly good show.. jolly good.

[MDlaxfan76]

Is anybody but the Chinese vaccinating other countries right now?

Edit: I see Russia is as well.

man, you do need to suspend your brain functions to take the Russian vaccine...! But if desperate enough...

I'm interested in what we can learn about the Chinese one though...is it contributing to the virus suppression they have achieved, or not? They appear to have crushed virus incidence, initially through draconian public health measures, but has the vaccine been what's keeping it there or is it simply high mask compliance and vigilance on testing? Or even both?

Regardless of what we think of their trustworthiness, they do have a remarkably efficient technology and production system....so it's possible...

Anyone following their efficacy on here, anything reliable published on that yet?

[CU88]

Fair points.

I like this part the best.

you're right.

[CU88]

BNO Newsroom@BNODesk

Australia reports 0 domestic coronavirus cases and 0 new deaths for 10th day in a row.

11:45 PM · Jan 26, 2021

[JoeMauer89]

BNO Newsroom@BNODesk

Australia reports 0 domestic coronavirus cases and 0 new deaths for 10th day in a row.

11:45 PM · Jan 26, 2021

Australia is an Island that is isolated from mostly all other countries, is this post meant to insinuate that this could be achieved in the US? You do realize that if the Aussies ever want any tourism EVER again in their country, they will not be reporting 0 Cases and 0 Deaths from Cv-19 for any amount of time. I really don't understand the logic in this post at all. They are NOT a model for the US in any way shape or form, so keep dreaming. Back to Lacrosse talk for me. Couldn't let this one slide though!

Joe