Yup, before the Q phenomenon blew up you were already spouting conspiracy theories. Precursor to QAnon.old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:00 amThe GOP would not survive your purity ritual. I'm with Mitch. I want the GOP to survive. If it can be done without Trump, or with him marginalized, that would be great. If Trump is convicted by the Senate or criminally convicted of anything, I will be delighted. The GOP would be rid of him. But don't go after him unless you can finish him. It will just make him stronger if it fails. ...I hate to see statesmen like Corker, Portman & Paul Ryan driven from the party....FTR, i was pointing out the deep state insurrection from within before Q existed. Flynn was the appetizer, Trump was the entree.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:44 amThank you for clarifying, but "you Sir are a LIAR".old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:29 amYou Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:49 amSalty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.njbill wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:09 amIn what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:47 pmC'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.njbill wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:30 pm I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.
No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.
Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...
I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.
Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.
Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged.
I've repeatedly said that I want the GOP to survive, but that it can only do so by cutting out the cancer of Trumpism. I don't want "remission" as that will only allow resurgence of Trumpism and a total loss of any possibility of moral authority by any of those complicit.
And that includes ANY and ALL who argue that it is mere "political theater" to impeach a President and prosecute a now former President who attempted to hold onto power after losing an election badly while claiming a landslide and massive fraud by inciting a violent insurrection against our democracy.
Any Senator who does not vote for conviction and barring from future office will forever bear the shame of not doing so. No mealy mouthed excuses are acceptable.
That's the Senate's duty and each Senator took an oath.
Now, if you're arguing that Trump should ALSO face criminal prosecution, I agree.
But hey, I also don't really believe you that you want Trump convicted the way you would if he was a Dem...and I also don't believe any of your Q fevered BS about the Deep State. There was no "counter insurgency", there was political 'resistance' to the authoritarian perversion of democracy but the adoption of "insurgency" as a descriptor in light of an actual violent insurgency is gross and again so revealing.
I quite disagree that Trump will grow 'stronger' as the trial forces Senators to confront how bad this really was and then have to vote on conviction or acquittal. I don't see Trump's approval going up at all, the more that is revealed, the more he will be diminished forever. He's a pariah now with corporate America and he's a pariah for the media giants and he's a pariah for the finance community...and the prosecutors are on the march for his prior criminal acts, and you can be sure that future operations will be closely scrutinized.
Yes, those who vote for acquittal will be forever marked by it, and those who vote for conviction will be forever recognized for their doing the right thing.
The best solution for the GOP is indeed Mitch and the Senators standing up and convicting him. I do think Mitch can finesse this so that some Senators who are at extreme risk of being primaried, and where the Dems would likely win against a rabid Trumpist can avoid the vote or give their mealy mouthed excuse for acquittal, but he needs to put the Trump dog down hard.
Otherwise the party really is doomed.