2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[MDlaxfan76]

Biden says he doesn’t think there are 17 Republican votes to convict T****. This seems to reflect the current reality, but it’s a little surprising he would be so blunt about that assessment. Why not just say, “that’s up to the Senate”?

Perhaps he's signaling a lack of enthusiasm for this post election impeachment process.

Nope, he's lowering expectations for a conviction.

He's saying it will impact their legislative agenda, but that it must go forward...and the more that's been learned the more obvious that's the case. He's signaling hard that's the case.

He just wants the Senate to work both tracks, legislation and impeachment process.

He's also quite correct that the likelihood of conviction is low, given the reality of the fear the GOP Senators have of being primaried. It's a political reality, but he's also quite clear that it's necessary despite the impact on his legislative agenda...which is his own #1 priority.

...or he's thinking about what could happen to him if the GOP take back the House in '24.

Meaning?
What in that fevered brain of yours is bubbling now?

[old salt]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit. Doesn't this make you nostalgic for those heady days on the Maidan. McCain hangin' with the beautiful Tymoshenko girls, Victoria Nuland handing out sammiches & telling the ERroburghers to F off. Everything seemed possible then.

[njbill]

Biden says he doesn’t think there are 17 Republican votes to convict T****. This seems to reflect the current reality, but it’s a little surprising he would be so blunt about that assessment. Why not just say, “that’s up to the Senate”?

Perhaps he's signaling a lack of enthusiasm for this post election impeachment process.

Nope, he's lowering expectations for a conviction.

He's saying it will impact their legislative agenda, but that it must go forward...and the more that's been learned the more obvious that's the case. He's signaling hard that's the case.

He just wants the Senate to work both tracks, legislation and impeachment process.

He's also quite correct that the likelihood of conviction is low, given the reality of the fear the GOP Senators have of being primaried. It's a political reality, but he's also quite clear that it's necessary despite the impact on his legislative agenda...which is his own #1 priority.

I see it pretty much the same way.

Joe would like T**** to get convicted, but he knows that's not likely. If it were, he'd be fine with impeachment mucking up his first weeks. Pretty fine.

But since there don't seem to be 67 votes, Joe sees the trial as a necessary evil, but one that WILL muck up his agenda. Two track or not, the Senate will really slow down for the impeachment trial.

[njbill]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

[old salt]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Comey, McCabe, Brennan & Steele

[njbill]

Nah, a few government employees and a foreigner.

None of them had 1/1000 the power T**** did. Even if you say some of them were trying to influence the election (I disagree), their efforts pale times 100 in comparison to T****’s.

[old salt]

Nah, a few government employees and a foreigner.

None of them had 1/1000 the power T**** did. Even if you say some of them were trying to influence the election (I disagree), their efforts pale times 100 in comparison to T****’s.

They did not have the power individually but they leveraged the power of their institutions, & a compliant media, much more effectively than did Trump.

[foreverlax]

Nah, a few government employees and a foreigner.

None of them had 1/1000 the power T**** did. Even if you say some of them were trying to influence the election (I disagree), their efforts pale times 100 in comparison to T****’s.

They did not have the power individually but they leveraged the power of their institutions, & a compliant media, much more effectively than did Trump.

Cleared it up a bit.

...he..leveraged the power of...a compliant media

[DMac]

So the general consensus seems to be that this one ends the same way the last one did with Donald standing there saying, "See, no collusion, no incitement, just another witch hunt and more fake news." Meanwhile his children see the impeachments as feathers in their father's hat and tell us all about how corrupt and blind the Dems and current administration is. What a country.

[Kismet]

So the general consensus seems to be that this one ends the same way the last one did with Donald standing there saying, "See, no collusion, no incitement, just another witch hunt and more fake news." Meanwhile his children see the impeachments as feathers in their father's hat and tell us all about how corrupt and blind the Dems and current administration is. What a country.

The above should clear things up.....even for the most obtuse around here.

It's a DUCK

[youthathletics]

So the general consensus seems to be that this one ends the same way the last one did with Donald standing there saying, "See, no collusion, no incitement, just another witch hunt and more fake news." Meanwhile his children see the impeachments as feathers in their father's hat and tell us all about how corrupt and blind the Dems and current administration is. What a country.

Interesting observation DMAC. It is like Trump is holding up a mirror as the left shines a light on the Trump family. The left is actually building the Trump brand for him.

[seacoaster]

So the general consensus seems to be that this one ends the same way the last one did with Donald standing there saying, "See, no collusion, no incitement, just another witch hunt and more fake news." Meanwhile his children see the impeachments as feathers in their father's hat and tell us all about how corrupt and blind the Dems and current administration is. What a country.

Interesting observation DMAC. It is like Trump is holding up a mirror as the left shines a light on the Trump family. The left is actually building the Trump brand for him.

YA, do you think Trump participated in impeachable acts in the period after November 3, 2020?

[MDlaxfan76]

Nah, a few government employees and a foreigner.

None of them had 1/1000 the power T**** did. Even if you say some of them were trying to influence the election (I disagree), their efforts pale times 100 in comparison to T****’s.

They did not have the power individually but they leveraged the power of their institutions, & a compliant media, much more effectively than did Trump.

What an immense pile. Typical.

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

[old salt]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged.

Thank you for clarifying, but "you Sir are a LIAR".

I've repeatedly said that I want the GOP to survive, but that it can only do so by cutting out the cancer of Trumpism. I don't want "remission" as that will only allow resurgence of Trumpism and a total loss of any possibility of moral authority by any of those complicit.

And that includes ANY and ALL who argue that it is mere "political theater" to impeach a President and prosecute a now former President who attempted to hold onto power after losing an election badly while claiming a landslide and massive fraud by inciting a violent insurrection against our democracy.

Any Senator who does not vote for conviction and barring from future office will forever bear the shame of not doing so. No mealy mouthed excuses are acceptable.

That's the Senate's duty and each Senator took an oath.

Now, if you're arguing that Trump should ALSO face criminal prosecution, I agree.

But hey, I also don't really believe you that you want Trump convicted the way you would if he was a Dem...and I also don't believe any of your Q fevered BS about the Deep State. There was no "counter insurgency", there was political 'resistance' to the authoritarian perversion of democracy but the adoption of "insurgency" as a descriptor in light of an actual violent insurgency is gross and again so revealing.

[ToastDunk]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

[Kismet]

The GOP reminds me of this movie clip - swap out "women" replace with "Trump"



That's where the GOPers find themselves. Some, out of self-preservation, will opt out of their principles and conscience and acquit the DICKWAD even for inciting an insurrection.

The Confederates in 1865 did not get such a good deal until in 1876 (11 years).

[old salt]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged.

Thank you for clarifying, but "you Sir are a LIAR".

I've repeatedly said that I want the GOP to survive, but that it can only do so by cutting out the cancer of Trumpism. I don't want "remission" as that will only allow resurgence of Trumpism and a total loss of any possibility of moral authority by any of those complicit.

And that includes ANY and ALL who argue that it is mere "political theater" to impeach a President and prosecute a now former President who attempted to hold onto power after losing an election badly while claiming a landslide and massive fraud by inciting a violent insurrection against our democracy.

Any Senator who does not vote for conviction and barring from future office will forever bear the shame of not doing so. No mealy mouthed excuses are acceptable.

That's the Senate's duty and each Senator took an oath.

Now, if you're arguing that Trump should ALSO face criminal prosecution, I agree.

But hey, I also don't really believe you that you want Trump convicted the way you would if he was a Dem...and I also don't believe any of your Q fevered BS about the Deep State. There was no "counter insurgency", there was political 'resistance' to the authoritarian perversion of democracy but the adoption of "insurgency" as a descriptor in light of an actual violent insurgency is gross and again so revealing.

The GOP would not survive your purity ritual. I'm with Mitch. I want the GOP to survive. If it can be done without Trump, or with him marginalized, that would be great. If Trump is convicted by the Senate or criminally convicted of anything, I will be delighted. The GOP would be rid of him. But don't go after him unless you can finish him. It will just make him stronger if it fails. ...I hate to see statesmen like Corker, Portman & Paul Ryan driven from the party....FTR, i was pointing out the deep state insurrection from within before Q existed. Flynn was the appetizer, Trump was the entree.

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

I'm not sure the GOP survives the 'Old Salt's', much less Trump.

Not unless the Senate convicts Trump and stands with the Ducey's and Kemp's and Raffensperger's...otherwise it's going to take a darn long time before the stain of Trumpism washes out...Trump and all its worst elements will persist, unchallengeable as long as Trump is the driver.

As it is, there's going to be a rough period, given that the 'tumor' is so large and has so many tentacles, metastasized in so many ways. But GOP will die if it does get started with tough therapy soon.