Ivy League 2021

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is what one school has planned:

https://www.nj.com/education/2020/11/pr ... -week.html

“Everyone on campus will be required to get regular coronavirus tests. Undergraduates will probably need to be tested at least twice a week, the president said. An on-campus lab is expected to process the tests in 24 hours or less.”

It is about controlling community spread. The colleges in my town have done a terrible job of testing and their was some blow back from town officials and residents.

[JoeMauer89]

Joe, you are simply, if rabidly, wrong.

Seriously, do you REALLY think the Ivies are primarily concerned about the health of the athletes, not their older employees and the communities around them?

If so do you really think they're dumber than you and some others on here who accurately point out that the risk to the athletes themselves is relatively low? These folks are stupid?

Nah, your argument is that they're just being "liberal" and "politically correct"...and equate that with some sort of belief system that you think is covid obsessed derangement "hoax"...400,000 dead...will be 500,000 shortly... but hey, that's just my "narrative"...

Which is why I ask about a poster's affiliation with Ivies...but go ahead and throw bricks, we get it, you hate them liberals and PC folks...

I don't need you to tell me how many died to know this is a serious pandemic. It's not a "hoax", you are the once who keeps insisting that. Trump is out of office, stop letting him occupy real estate in your head. In other news, lets see if Utah can pull off the upset on Saturday against Denver! And how about Bellarmine vs Mercer? I'll go with the bears by a few goals. Both should be good games...

Joe

[smoova]

Joe, you are simply, if rabidly, wrong.

Seriously, do you REALLY think the Ivies are primarily concerned about the health of the athletes, not their older employees and the communities around them?

If so do you really think they're dumber than you and some others on here who accurately point out that the risk to the athletes themselves is relatively low? These folks are stupid?

Nah, your argument is that they're just being "liberal" and "politically correct"...and equate that with some sort of belief system that you think is covid obsessed derangement "hoax"...400,000 dead...will be 500,000 shortly... but hey, that's just my "narrative"...

Which is why I ask about a poster's affiliation with Ivies...but go ahead and throw bricks, we get it, you hate them liberals and PC folks...

I don't need you to tell me how many died to know this is a serious pandemic. It's not a "hoax", you are the once who keeps insisting that. Trump is out of office, stop letting him occupy real estate in your head. In other news, lets see if Utah can pull off the upset on Saturday against Denver! And how about Bellarmine vs Mercer? I'll go with the bears by a few goals. Both should be good games...

Joe

Absolute capitulation.

[MDlaxfan76]

Joe, you are simply, if rabidly, wrong.

Seriously, do you REALLY think the Ivies are primarily concerned about the health of the athletes, not their older employees and the communities around them?

If so do you really think they're dumber than you and some others on here who accurately point out that the risk to the athletes themselves is relatively low? These folks are stupid?

Nah, your argument is that they're just being "liberal" and "politically correct"...and equate that with some sort of belief system that you think is covid obsessed derangement "hoax"...400,000 dead...will be 500,000 shortly... but hey, that's just my "narrative"...

Which is why I ask about a poster's affiliation with Ivies...but go ahead and throw bricks, we get it, you hate them liberals and PC folks...

I don't need you to tell me how many died to know this is a serious pandemic. It's not a "hoax", you are the once who keeps insisting that. Trump is out of office, stop letting him occupy real estate in your head. In other news, lets see if Utah can pull off the upset on Saturday against Denver! And how about Bellarmine vs Mercer? I'll go with the bears by a few goals. Both should be good games...

Joe

I have a rooting interest in Utah, but not holding my breath...but best take that discussion to those threads.

[TotoketLax]

My view is that the Ivy League (especially Yale and Harvard) have totally lost their way. Certainly with respect to sports, but overall as well.

The decisions to not invite students back to campuses (and sports not being played, especially outdoors ones) in order to prevent “community spread” is so misguided.

First, all the students not invited back are now just off in their home communities, impacting the “community” just the same. It is not like all those students were sent off in a spaceship when not on campus. Second, when on campus, students are required to follow additional protocols that they don’t have to when in their home communities. The schools just don’t want to take on any responsibility, but cloak it with moral preaching.

Safely run sports programs are not going to increase community risk. Likely will lower it. An anecdote: during the entire Fall, one ACC football program that played a full season had only 1 player test positive across the entire Fall. Contrast that with UCONN, who canceled their entire season (communicated to be for health reasons). Yet, something like 30 members of the football roster tested positive at some point through the Fall. Also look at the report by the state of Wisconsin that analyzed the impact of HS sports across all public schools with respect to COVId. No increase found.

The main problem is that the Ivys have so many thousands of students applying each year and they have so many tens of $ billions in endowment money that they feel completely unaccountable to the students/families. They just don’t care. Thousands will keep applying and there won’t be a bank run. The ultimate irony of having a ton of endowment $ and a super low acceptance rate.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

MD:

Good to hear from you. I usually find your posts informative and well-reasoned. I am glad to read that you want these "guys and gals" to play this season. That is heartening. What is less heartening is your accusation (uncharacteristic of your posts in my experience) that I am "misreading or misstating" the IL's rationale. The former suggests I lack the acumen to absorb a one-page text--the latter suggests that I intentionally misled. I have done neither. You and I may have different interpretations of the words, which is fine, but I did not misread or mistate the IL rationale (under my interpretation).

Three times the Ivy League Update emphasizes that it is not safe to play sports at this time: (1) it states that the League will “resume athletics activity when it is safe to do so”; (2) it further provides that the League has developed plans for “competition when it is deemed safe and appropriate to do so”; and (3) it states that there must be “significant changes in the state of the pandemic before competition becomes feasible.” That is simply not true. Period. You may agree with the Presidents' decision not to play sports at this time, but it is demonstrably false that sports may not be played safely at this time--they have been played, and are being played, safely all over the world. As I said, have there been postponements and cancellations? Yes. But, they are relatively few and should continue to decline as positive tests continue to decline (which is happening now). I will let the rest of my post speak for itself on this topic.

As for the sentence you highlight, I actually quoted the relevant part of it, so I definitely did not "mistate" it. Again, you may have a different interpretation than I of those words, but I actually quoted them, highlighting the link to the return to normal campus activities (which, yes, includes athletics). Again, I will let the balance of my explanation on that topic speak for itself. If sports or theater or debate can be conducted safely and in accordance with governing rules, they should be allowed to do so (in my opinion).

MD, I hope your desire to see the "guys and gals" play this season comes to fruition. The Ivy League's expressed justification for refusing to do so is unpersuasive to me and many others with whom I have spoken. Sounds like you have a different view--to which you are entitled--but I think it is in the stark minority if you look at the Petition Brown circulated and that other Ivy teams have supported, which now has nearly 7,000 signatures in just over 4 days: https://www.change.org/p/athletes-letivyleagueplay.

[JoeMauer89]

My view is that the Ivy League (especially Yale and Harvard) have totally lost their way. Certainly with respect to sports, but overall as well.

The decisions to not invite students back to campuses (and sports not being played, especially outdoors ones) in order to prevent “community spread” is so misguided.

First, all the students not invited back are now just off in their home communities, impacting the “community” just the same. It is not like all those students were sent off in a spaceship when not on campus. Second, when on campus, students are required to follow additional protocols that they don’t have to when in their home communities. The schools just don’t want to take on any responsibility, but cloak it with moral preaching.

Safely run sports programs are not going to increase community risk. Likely will lower it. An anecdote: during the entire Fall, one ACC football program that played a full season had only 1 player test positive across the entire Fall. Contrast that with UCONN, who canceled their entire season (communicated to be for health reasons). Yet, something like 30 members of the football roster tested positive at some point through the Fall. Also look at the report by the state of Wisconsin that analyzed the impact of HS sports across all public schools with respect to COVId. No increase found.

The main problem is that the Ivys have so many thousands of students applying each year and they have so many tens of $ billions in endowment money that they feel completely unaccountable to the students/families. They just don’t care. Thousands will keep applying and there won’t be a bank run. The ultimate irony of having a ton of endowment $ and a super low acceptance rate.

+100

Very well said.

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

MD:

Good to hear from you. I usually find your posts informative and well-reasoned. I am glad to read that you want these "guys and gals" to play this season. That is heartening. What is less heartening is your accusation (uncharacteristic of your posts in my experience) that I am "misreading or misstating" the IL's rationale. The former suggests I lack the acumen to absorb a one-page text--the latter suggests that I intentionally misled. I have done neither. You and I may have different interpretations of the words, which is fine, but I did not misread or mistate the IL rationale (under my interpretation).

Three times the Ivy League Update emphasizes that it is not safe to play sports at this time: (1) it states that the League will “resume athletics activity when it is safe to do so”; (2) it further provides that the League has developed plans for “competition when it is deemed safe and appropriate to do so”; and (3) it states that there must be “significant changes in the state of the pandemic before competition becomes feasible.” That is simply not true. Period. You may agree with the Presidents' decision not to play sports at this time, but it is demonstrably false that sports may not be played safely at this time--they have been played, and are being played, safely all over the world. As I said, have there been postponements and cancellations? Yes. But, they are relatively few and should continue to decline as positive tests continue to decline (which is happening now). I will let the rest of my post speak for itself on this topic.

As for the sentence you highlight, I actually quoted the relevant part of it, so I definitely did not "mistate" it. Again, you may have a different interpretation than I of those words, but I actually quoted them, highlighting the link to the return to normal campus activities (which, yes, includes athletics). Again, I will let the balance of my explanation on that topic speak for itself. If sports or theater or debate can be conducted safely and in accordance with governing rules, they should be allowed to do so (in my opinion).

MD, I hope your desire to see the "guys and gals" play this season comes to fruition. The Ivy League's expressed justification for refusing to do so is unpersuasive to me and many others with whom I have spoken. Sounds like you have a different view--to which you are entitled--but I think it is in the stark minority if you look at the Petition Brown circulated and that other Ivy teams have supported, which now has nearly 7,000 signatures in just over 4 days: https://www.change.org/p/athletes-letivyleagueplay.

Well stated and not really a surprise from your other posts. Rational, cogent, coherent.

Charlie DS, no offense was intended. I sincerely think you are misinterpreting the wording to mean something they do not intend, vague and all encompassing as their wording may be. I did not mean that you are incapable of a correct read, nor being intentionally misleading. I do think you are mistaken in your interpretation, and, thus, the argument is not about whether there's risk to young people (there is some, but not much) but rather to whether they have risk with their employees and whether they believe that the concentration of young people on campus can be successfully managed at full speed, no need to reduce density, travel, etc.

They've simply come to the conclusion that the risks they are most focused on cannot be successfully addressed without the mitigation efforts they have established, and the phases of reopening to normality defined by very specific metrics. This isn't about whether I agree with their thresholds or not, it's simply what they have established and they're basing it on their own assessments and priorities, and are sticking to it (so far). My only objection is to anyone misstating their rationale, especially hyperbolically, and particularly those with no particularly intimate stake in the Ivies throwing bricks...which does not describe your posts on this topic IMO.

Again, the Ivies have each chosen mitigation strategies that impact their entire student bodies and they are unlikely to treat the athletes preferentially over other students and student activities. That reality may blow lots of athletes' and alums and parents' minds, but it's one of things that does differentiate the Ivy athlete experience, for better or for worse...this may be a good example of 'for worse'.

I suspect the debate teams and musical groups and...may well agree.

[Typical Lax Dad]

MD:

Good to hear from you. I usually find your posts informative and well-reasoned. I am glad to read that you want these "guys and gals" to play this season. That is heartening. What is less heartening is your accusation (uncharacteristic of your posts in my experience) that I am "misreading or misstating" the IL's rationale. The former suggests I lack the acumen to absorb a one-page text--the latter suggests that I intentionally misled. I have done neither. You and I may have different interpretations of the words, which is fine, but I did not misread or mistate the IL rationale (under my interpretation).

Three times the Ivy League Update emphasizes that it is not safe to play sports at this time: (1) it states that the League will “resume athletics activity when it is safe to do so”; (2) it further provides that the League has developed plans for “competition when it is deemed safe and appropriate to do so”; and (3) it states that there must be “significant changes in the state of the pandemic before competition becomes feasible.” That is simply not true. Period. You may agree with the Presidents' decision not to play sports at this time, but it is demonstrably false that sports may not be played safely at this time--they have been played, and are being played, safely all over the world. As I said, have there been postponements and cancellations? Yes. But, they are relatively few and should continue to decline as positive tests continue to decline (which is happening now). I will let the rest of my post speak for itself on this topic.

As for the sentence you highlight, I actually quoted the relevant part of it, so I definitely did not "mistate" it. Again, you may have a different interpretation than I of those words, but I actually quoted them, highlighting the link to the return to normal campus activities (which, yes, includes athletics). Again, I will let the balance of my explanation on that topic speak for itself. If sports or theater or debate can be conducted safely and in accordance with governing rules, they should be allowed to do so (in my opinion).

MD, I hope your desire to see the "guys and gals" play this season comes to fruition. The Ivy League's expressed justification for refusing to do so is unpersuasive to me and many others with whom I have spoken. Sounds like you have a different view--to which you are entitled--but I think it is in the stark minority if you look at the Petition Brown circulated and that other Ivy teams have supported, which now has nearly 7,000 signatures in just over 4 days: https://www.change.org/p/athletes-letivyleagueplay.

Well stated and not really a surprise from your other posts. Rational, cogent, coherent.

Charlie DS, no offense was intended. I sincerely think you are misinterpreting the wording to mean something they do not intend, vague and all encompassing as their wording may be. I did not mean that you are incapable of a correct read, nor being intentionally misleading. I do think you are mistaken in your interpretation, and, thus, the argument is not about whether there's risk to young people (there is some, but not much) but rather to whether they have risk with their employees and whether they believe that the concentration of young people on campus can be successfully managed at full speed, no need to reduce density, travel, etc.

They've simply come to the conclusion that the risks they are most focused on cannot be successfully addressed without the mitigation efforts they have established, and the phases of reopening to normality defined by very specific metrics. This isn't about whether I agree with their thresholds or not, it's simply what they have established and they're basing it on their own assessments and priorities, and are sticking to it (so far). My only objection is to anyone misstating their rationale, especially hyperbolically, and particularly those with no particularly intimate stake in the Ivies throwing bricks...which does not describe your posts on this topic IMO.

Again, the Ivies have each chosen mitigation strategies that impact their entire student bodies and they are unlikely to treat the athletes preferentially over other students and student activities. That reality may blow lots of athletes' and alums and parents' minds, but it's one of things that does differentiate the Ivy athlete experience, for better or for worse...this may be a good example of 'for worse'.

I suspect the debate teams and musical groups and...may well agree.

My reading of “safe” is “safe” for the community in general. I just don’t know how the schools will make a pass for athletes. It may be left up to individual schools to make the determination.

[faircornell]

Columbia Athletics has a positive response to all of this. The Athletic Department is hosting an inter team quiz show called the "Lions Feud".

Round One features the Men's Fencing Team versus the Men's Basketball Team. It's live on Twitch TV on the Columbia Athletics Twitch channel. Round One starts at 8PM EST on Tuesday, January 26.

The channel can be accessed at: "Twitch.TV/GoColumbiaLions". At some point, Women's Lax should be up. Perhaps they will let the Columbia Lacrosse Club compete.

[DALaxDad]

Is there anything that requires all Ivy teams to adopt the same response to pandemic issues? What is preventing an Ivy coach/AD from scheduling OCC games or, for that matter, other Ivy teams? Are the Ivy presidents just trying to provide cover to their brethern who are not prepared to field teams due to limited students on campus?

[MDlaxfan76]

Is there anything that requires all Ivy teams to adopt the same response to pandemic issues? What is preventing an Ivy coach/AD from scheduling OCC games or, for that matter, other Ivy teams? Are the Ivy presidents just trying to provide cover to their brethern who are not prepared to field teams due to limited students on campus?

If I'm not mistaken, the League governs League participation requirements by common consent of the Presidents.

I think it is also the case that each school is making somewhat different choices with regard to how they're managing their campuses and their various student activities, though there's definitely a common theme as previously discussed.

So, in theory, a school could decide to have all 4 class years in attendance, could allow travel to and from, and could schedule OOC games...but not in conference unless the League allows and the conditions for doing so don't include solely in-conference contests (ala some leagues).

I'd imagine that the Presidents would like to make the overall decision on this collectively.

My hunch is that they're going to be conservative/stubborn on this, though I'm hoping they find some way to thread the needle and at least have a plan for an abbreviated late season in-conference schedule enabling post-season play if all goes well. But that plan is quite likely to need to mesh with other campus restrictions being lifted for other activities concurrently...and if the situation worsens rather than improves, all bets off. My alma mater isn't likely to have more than 2 or 3 class years on campus though, and I doubt they'd allow non-enrolled to participate.

[Brownlax]

Sorry if this has been posted. Brown lacrosse programs petition League.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... eMJ6ZClZdE

Is this really an accurate quote?

“We urge you to reconsider the mental well-being of the Ivy League’s student-athletes,” the letter reads. “Athletes, namely lacrosse, have served as our outlet, consistently supporting us in times of distress.”

If so, come'on Brown folks...

As someone who has battled mental health issues for most of my life due to severe abuse as a child, YES sports were my outlet that I desperately needed. Sports was my safe place. Sports were and are very important to me even as an adult. As a coach, I see how important sports are to these kids. They NEED to see their teammates and interact with them - it's a key part of their social makeup. Come'on MDLAXFAN76 - "your opinions are like butts - everyone has one and they all stink."

[Brownlax]

My view is that the Ivy League (especially Yale and Harvard) have totally lost their way. Certainly with respect to sports, but overall as well.

The decisions to not invite students back to campuses (and sports not being played, especially outdoors ones) in order to prevent “community spread” is so misguided.

First, all the students not invited back are now just off in their home communities, impacting the “community” just the same. It is not like all those students were sent off in a spaceship when not on campus. Second, when on campus, students are required to follow additional protocols that they don’t have to when in their home communities. The schools just don’t want to take on any responsibility, but cloak it with moral preaching.

Safely run sports programs are not going to increase community risk. Likely will lower it. An anecdote: during the entire Fall, one ACC football program that played a full season had only 1 player test positive across the entire Fall. Contrast that with UCONN, who canceled their entire season (communicated to be for health reasons). Yet, something like 30 members of the football roster tested positive at some point through the Fall. Also look at the report by the state of Wisconsin that analyzed the impact of HS sports across all public schools with respect to COVId. No increase found.

The main problem is that the Ivys have so many thousands of students applying each year and they have so many tens of $ billions in endowment money that they feel completely unaccountable to the students/families. They just don’t care. Thousands will keep applying and there won’t be a bank run. The ultimate irony of having a ton of endowment $ and a super low acceptance rate.

I recently read an article (I'll try to find it" that stated that all D1 basketball programs are currently playing basketball except for 10 schools - and 8 of those schools are the Ivies. You have indoor college wrestling (I was a wrestler too and I love the sport) being played and that has a lot of body contact obviously and they are doing it. Basketball, wrestling, ice hockey, gymnastics and volleyball all being played INDOORS right now and the ivy League can't let outdoor sports to be played in the Spring? With the HUGE endowments these schools have, they could Test the kids every day if they wanted to.

[pcowlax]

Sorry if this has been posted. Brown lacrosse programs petition League.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... eMJ6ZClZdE

Is this really an accurate quote?

“We urge you to reconsider the mental well-being of the Ivy League’s student-athletes,” the letter reads. “Athletes, namely lacrosse, have served as our outlet, consistently supporting us in times of distress.”

If so, come'on Brown folks...

As someone who has battled mental health issues for most of my life due to severe abuse as a child, YES sports were my outlet that I desperately needed. Sports was my safe place. Sports were and are very important to me even as an adult. As a coach, I see how important sports are to these kids. They NEED to see their teammates and interact with them - it's a key part of their social makeup. Come'on MDLAXFAN76 - "your opinions are like butts - everyone has one and they all stink."

Don't want to speak for him but I think he was mocking the grammar ("Athletes" being an outlet rather than "athletics") rather than the sentiment. You are entirely right about the importance of sports Brownlax and with the simply massive amount of data, from all levels and types of sports across the world, proving that sports can be played completely safely for players and coaches, there is ZERO scientific reason behind and no medical credibility in a decision to not play sports this spring.

[Brownlax]

Sorry if this has been posted. Brown lacrosse programs petition League.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... eMJ6ZClZdE

Is this really an accurate quote?

“We urge you to reconsider the mental well-being of the Ivy League’s student-athletes,” the letter reads. “Athletes, namely lacrosse, have served as our outlet, consistently supporting us in times of distress.”

If so, come'on Brown folks...

As someone who has battled mental health issues for most of my life due to severe abuse as a child, YES sports were my outlet that I desperately needed. Sports was my safe place. Sports were and are very important to me even as an adult. As a coach, I see how important sports are to these kids. They NEED to see their teammates and interact with them - it's a key part of their social makeup. Come'on MDLAXFAN76 - "your opinions are like butts - everyone has one and they all stink."

Don't want to speak for him but I think he was mocking the grammar ("Athletes" being an outlet rather than "athletics") rather than the sentiment. You are entirely right about the importance of sports Brownlax and with the simply massive amount of data, from all levels and types of sports across the world, proving that sports can be played completely safely for players and coaches, there is ZERO scientific reason behind and no medical credibility in a decision to not play sports this spring.

^^ Agreed!!

[MDlaxfan76]

Sorry if this has been posted. Brown lacrosse programs petition League.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... eMJ6ZClZdE

Is this really an accurate quote?

“We urge you to reconsider the mental well-being of the Ivy League’s student-athletes,” the letter reads. “Athletes, namely lacrosse, have served as our outlet, consistently supporting us in times of distress.”

If so, come'on Brown folks...

As someone who has battled mental health issues for most of my life due to severe abuse as a child, YES sports were my outlet that I desperately needed. Sports was my safe place. Sports were and are very important to me even as an adult. As a coach, I see how important sports are to these kids. They NEED to see their teammates and interact with them - it's a key part of their social makeup. Come'on MDLAXFAN76 - "your opinions are like butts - everyone has one and they all stink."

Brownlax, methinks thou didn't get the joke.

I wasn't arguing that sports are not an outlet for many, helping in all sorts of ways...certainly were for me... and I, too, had some emotional challenges during my youth though not for the reasons which you reveal (and for which I appreciate your openness). Mine were depression, but not for anything as identifiable as severe abuse.

No, I was chuckling at the wording, the phraseology. Pretty sure the writer meant the word "Athletics" (or Sports) "as our outlet"...not "Athletes"....thus the c'mon Brown folks...

Just a fellow Ivy alum joshing another school's alums.

[suffolk]

https://www.globalgolfpost.com/more/dar ... story-2-2/

What is going on in the Ivy League and their athletic programs? This article is really disturbing.

[youthathletics]

https://www.globalgolfpost.com/more/dar ... story-2-2/

What is going on in the Ivy League and their athletic programs? This article is really disturbing.

Goodness gracious.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.globalgolfpost.com/more/dar ... story-2-2/

What is going on in the Ivy League and their athletic programs? This article is really disturbing.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics-faq/

https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/06/b ... field-penn

Lots of places.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/06/11/c ... a-olympics