Progressive Ideology

[cradleandshoot]

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman- ... he-mother/ Who really cares anyway? This is the kind of stuff that should make a compassionate and caring human being break down and cry. Not anymore... the potential for infanticide is just business as usual... no big deal. What disgusts me the most is that nobody here on this forum has the respect or dignity for human life to admit that this is a crime against humanity. Building a f***ing wall is immoral. Murdering a newborn baby... no big f***ing deal. You assholes are so hung up with your hatred for Trump that you are oblivious to the real crime being perpetuated in front of your damn faces. If any of you believe in God I hope you have the temerity to defend yourself in front of your creator. You better practice that speech starting right now. I am not perfect and I have more defects of character than I can probably ever count. When you are talking about people trying to justify murdering newborn babies... what can ever be said to justify such a heinous act? Please allow me one more rant... WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS ABOUT A BABY THAT HAS BEEN BORN ALIVE??? THERE IS NO F***ING DISCUSSION TO BE HAD...

[holmes435]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

[CU77]

From the end of that article, perhaps added after you saw it C&S:

"No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor," Ofirah Yheskel, a spokeswoman for Northam, said. "Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions."

Yeah, I'm fine with leaving it up the women who must endure these sorts of horrific medical problems, and their doctors.

You wanna send cops into those operating rooms, C&S? Is that the plan????

Yeah, you will have some 'splainin to do before God.

[jhu72]

After looking into it further, you can already have a third trimester abortion in Virginia if it's medically necessary. You need three physicians to say it's necessary, which is overkill IMO. She's just changing it to one physician.

So she's not even proposing something new. Talk about sensationalism by the guy asking the question as well as all those twitter people.

You call it sensationalism... I call it infanticide. What are you going to do next? Are you going to play the role of Nancy Pelosi and lecture us all about immorality. I bet you don't have the balls to be in the same room where a baby is being born because the mother is about to give birth to a live baby and the outcome is that this baby will be murdered. Excuse me, such harsh language for you hypocritical FLP folks. The so very viable unviable tissue mass was murdered at the time of birth. Maybe you can comfort the mother who just witnessed her baby executed in front of her eyes. You never think about those consequences do you Holmes? Maybe you can act like the legislature of NYS and jump up from your chair and give the whole murderous affair a standing ovation and clap your hands wildly with enthusiasm.

Are you willing to sit your ass in that room Holmes and bear witness to the end result? My guess is no. Because you are too much of a coward to see it happen in front of your nose. It is much more "palatable" when it occurs in that faraway place we call a womens reproductive right. That can easily be justified. Because nobody ever has to get up close and personal with the end result. One last point. My wife early in her nursing career use to have to comfort many women who had just had an abortion. Many of these women were tormented and distressed at their decision to end the life of their babies. There was no PTSD for them. Only the badge of honor that you had done the right thing. No problem there girl, just venture out into the world and forget it ever happened. What a f***ed up country we have created. Destroying a human life is the most vile and reprehensible thing on the face of this earth. My 2 sons are the most precious things in my life. The thought of ever not wanting them or just killing them because they weren't convenient for me at the time. I just don't get it, I don't want to understand it and I know I never will.

Enough of the strawman moralizing. This has got nothing to do with healthy "babies" being murdered because they are inconvient. This is about late term fetuses with with serious, quality of life issues, or health of the mother issues. Who in the f-you-see-kay are you or anyone else to make a medical decision for a mother faced with these kinds of decisions? I guaranttee you, the women making these decisions are torn apart making these decisions. A baby with no chance for a meaningful life is made to linger, society is made to spend resources -- your resources, which you complain about endlessly. You don't know the mother, you don't know the family but you are so sure that they are evil, they are making such decisions because it is inconvient. You should have to walk in their shoes. Everyone of these women would gladly trade places with your moralizing ass and let you deal with the issue AND THE CONSEQUENCES for you own "child" or "children".

Thankfully, late term abortions are exceedingly rare!

This dust up has nothing to do with the facts of the situation, they are just talking points of the nut fringe anti-abortion fascists who are determined to control womens' lives.

[jhu72]

From the end of that article, perhaps added after you saw it C&S:

"No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor," Ofirah Yheskel, a spokeswoman for Northam, said. "Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions."

Yeah, I'm fine with leaving it up the women who must endure these sorts of horrific medical problems, and their doctors.

You wanna send cops into those operating rooms, C&S? Is that the plan????

Yeah, you will have some 'splainin to do before God.

The only people qualified to make the decision is the mother and her trusted advisors, father, family and physician. The kibitzers can all GO DIRECTLY TO HELL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200!

[jhu72]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

The only news outlets really covering this are the usual right wing faux news sites. CBS and NBC have run very short stories, just the facts type stories. It is all about spinning the nut fringe base up - truth be damned.

You know that same bill in the VA House says it is legal to kill Tomi Lahren. These right wing nuts will believe anything.

[runrussellrun]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

perhaps you could provide a link to the legislation being proposed

[holmes435]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

perhaps you could provide a link to the legislation being proposed

Haha - I already did provide a link to the bill, just 10 posts back on the previous page. viewtopic.php?f=66&t=383&start=620#p21861

The bill itself is only like 7 pages long, easy to get through.

[runrussellrun]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

perhaps you could provide a link to the legislation being proposed

Haha - I already did provide a link to the bill, just 10 posts back on the previous page. viewtopic.php?f=66&t=383&start=620#p21861

The bill itself is only like 7 pages long, easy to get through.

ha, the bill is NOT even 1 page long......other mumbo jumbo about real estate contracts, etc. But, thank you for the link.

Funny, how most of the anti-abortion crowd HATES paying for services for the living. Yeah...like jhu72 said.

[cradleandshoot]

Jesus man you have absolutely no idea about what these bills are about and what they allow and don't allow. These "news outlets" get their facts so twisted and lie so much that it enrages you to no end. You whine and cry about fake news when you don't know you've been taken by it.

If you really think they're going to be murdering a viable baby at 40 weeks, I've got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you. You're being lead around by a dog whistle and don't even know it. Read the actual bill, not some trash on an extreme right-wing blog.

NO ONE IS MURDERING OR ALLOWED TO MURDER A NEWBORN BABY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

Buffalo chips... get that through your thick skull. The NYS assembly gave themselves a standing O. The whole thing is repugnant to people who actually understand what it means to kill a baby at 9 months. Very sad you can't get that thought into your thick skull. What are you going to do next give me a lesson on morality to boot? If this disgusting legislation makes you happy, then you have your own personal issues to deal with. There is no right way to do a wrong thing. Why don't you just stand up and give yourself a standing ovation as well. You seem to be so very proud of this barbaric and disgusting legislation. Hey, look at the bright side, maybe they can sell the parts of these murdered babies and make a few bucks on the side.

[cradleandshoot]

From the end of that article, perhaps added after you saw it C&S:

"No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor," Ofirah Yheskel, a spokeswoman for Northam, said. "Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions."

Yeah, I'm fine with leaving it up the women who must endure these sorts of horrific medical problems, and their doctors.

You wanna send cops into those operating rooms, C&S? Is that the plan????

Yeah, you will have some 'splainin to do before God.

You need to grow yourself a really big set of balls and actually find a way to be in one of these rooms and witness a 9 month old baby being terminated. You need to get your face up there real close and take it all in. Savor the moment... then get back to me and tell me what you think about it then. You are right about one thing my misguided friend... there are some people out there in this country that will have some splainin to do to god. I highly doubt that god will be very pleased with the explanation. Maybe YOU can explain it all to god? Let me know how that works out for you?

[holmes435]

The world isn't as black and white as you may think it is. It's pretty cruel to force a mother to carry a baby to term that is going to die as soon as they cut the umbilical cord if she doesn't want to.

These bills aren't advocating killing healthy third trimester babies just because the mother decides she doesn't want it.

No one I've talked to about the Virginia bill here locally has actually read it, or knows that the existing code is. They go off what they hear on Facebook or Twitter. It's the unfortunately state of our country today.

[cradleandshoot]

From the end of that article, perhaps added after you saw it C&S:

"No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor," Ofirah Yheskel, a spokeswoman for Northam, said. "Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions."

Yeah, I'm fine with leaving it up the women who must endure these sorts of horrific medical problems, and their doctors.

You wanna send cops into those operating rooms, C&S? Is that the plan????

Yeah, you will have some 'splainin to do before God.

The only people qualified to make the decision is the mother and her trusted advisors, father, family and physician. The kibitzers can all GO DIRECTLY TO HELL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200!

You make it sound so very black and white. What about that mom that decides the day before she just doesn't want the baby? The baby has not a single physical ailment. That is now her choice. That is where this legislation hits the slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? A very sick baby or just an unwanted baby How many different circumstances lie in between. You are also correct about something my misguided doctor. It will involve some people going to hell.

[holmes435]

You make it sound so very black and white. What about that mom that decides the day before she just doesn't want the baby? The baby has not a single physical ailment. That is now her choice. That is where this legislation hits the slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? A very sick baby or just an unwanted baby How many different circumstances lie in between. You are also correct about something my misguided doctor. It will involve some people going to hell.

This is what I'm talking about, not knowing the bill. That's not allowed in NY or VA.

In New York, here are the requirements for third trimester abortions under the new law:

- The abortion is "necessary to protect the patient's life or health."
- There is an absence of "fetal viability," or the ability for the fetus to survive outside the womb.

The law also says is up to the mother's health care provider to determine those. AGAIN, she can't go in the day before and say she doesn't want the baby. None of these laws allow that.

[cradleandshoot]

The world isn't as black and white as you may think it is. It's pretty cruel to force a mother to carry a baby to term that is going to die as soon as they cut the umbilical cord if she doesn't want to.

These bills aren't advocating killing healthy third trimester babies just because the mother decides she doesn't want it.

No one I've talked to about the Virginia bill here locally has actually read it, or knows that the existing code is. They go off what they hear on Facebook or Twitter. It's the unfortunately state of our country today.

I understand what you are saying. I understand it in the case of a terribly sick baby. The problem is there is no limit as I understand it for the mother to terminate the pregnancy for anything other than her own personal reasons up until the day of delivery. IMO a very nasty can of worms has been opened here. I find it hard to believe that down the road some horrible things are going to happen and this whole situation will get even more ugly. My wife spent 10 years working in the nursery with newborns. Saw a lot of babies die and witnessed unbearable grief by so many families. There are some folks who think that doing this is a good thing. When my wife tells me how horrible this is. When it disgusts her. This goes against everything she ever trained to be as a nurse. They are all about saving lives... not deciding about who lives or dies. You can only wonder how this will effect so many of these medical people that will have to make this thing happen. I could never imagine the toll it has to take on a person. Even if you are being told that you are doing the right thing.

[cradleandshoot]

You make it sound so very black and white. What about that mom that decides the day before she just doesn't want the baby? The baby has not a single physical ailment. That is now her choice. That is where this legislation hits the slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? A very sick baby or just an unwanted baby How many different circumstances lie in between. You are also correct about something my misguided doctor. It will involve some people going to hell.

This is what I'm talking about, not knowing the bill. That's not allowed in NY or VA.

In New York, here are the requirements for third trimester abortions under the new law:

- The abortion is "necessary to protect the patient's life or health."
- There is an absence of "fetal viability," or the ability for the fetus to survive outside the womb.

The law also says is up to the mother's health care provider to determine those. AGAIN, she can't go in the day before and say she doesn't want the baby. None of these laws allow that.

So the measure will make late-term abortions legal at the discretion of a health-care practitioner based on the viability of the fetus or if the woman's life or health is in jeopardy.

Here is where the ambiguity comes in to play. Under the new NYS law the health care practitioner can be a Nurse Practitioner. Very skilled professional... BUT NOT A DOCTOR. More ambiguity... what skill level do you need to make a determination of the "viability" of a baby? That can be done by an NP? REALLY. Who determines the health of the woman about to give birth? The Nurse Practitioner?? In NYS the NP now has the authority to perform the termination of pregnancy. You Mr Holmes are trying to pass of a load of sheepdip. The ambiguity of the law is its own worst enemy. Explain to me to separate issues. What are the qualifications of the health care practitioner to determine the viability of the baby? What doctor is going to determine the possible issues to the womans life or health? If the pregnant women has been going to see her OB all along these issues would have been determined a long time ago.


I looked and I could not find detailed instructions about how these new baby murdering procedures are to be implemented. My guess is that the brain damaged Democrats that run NYS never thought that far ahead. I do know how this game is played even with all of the faux outrage from you folks here at this forum. My guess is many of you are so morally bankrupt that you don't know either and nor do you care. So long as the sacred sacrament of abortion on demand is preserved that is all that matters to all of you.

[Brooklyn]

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman- ... he-mother/ Who really cares anyway? This is the kind of stuff that should make a compassionate and caring human being break down and cry. Not anymore... the potential for infanticide is just business as usual... no big deal. What disgusts me the most is that nobody here on this forum has the respect or dignity for human life to admit that this is a crime against humanity. Building a f***ing wall is immoral. Murdering a newborn baby... no big f***ing deal. You assholes are so hung up with your hatred for Trump that you are oblivious to the real crime being perpetuated in front of your damn faces. If any of you believe in God I hope you have the temerity to defend yourself in front of your creator. You better practice that speech starting right now. I am not perfect and I have more defects of character than I can probably ever count. When you are talking about people trying to justify murdering newborn babies... what can ever be said to justify such a heinous act? Please allow me one more rant... WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS ABOUT A BABY THAT HAS BEEN BORN ALIVE??? THERE IS NO F***ING DISCUSSION TO BE HAD...

fake news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/opin ... -tran.html


By the way, just a reminder that it was right wing Republican Supreme Court that voted for abortion in Roe v Wade.

As for defending yourself before your creator, that's a question better suited for the likes of Bush and others who foment wars and kill tens of thousands.

[6x6]

You make it sound so very black and white. What about that mom that decides the day before she just doesn't want the baby? The baby has not a single physical ailment. That is now her choice. That is where this legislation hits the slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? A very sick baby or just an unwanted baby How many different circumstances lie in between. You are also correct about something my misguided doctor. It will involve some people going to hell.

This is what I'm talking about, not knowing the bill. That's not allowed in NY or VA.

In New York, here are the requirements for third trimester abortions under the new law:

- The abortion is "necessary to protect the patient's life or health."
- There is an absence of "fetal viability," or the ability for the fetus to survive outside the womb.

The law also says is up to the mother's health care provider to determine those. AGAIN, she can't go in the day before and say she doesn't want the baby. None of these laws allow that.

C&S I agree with your concerns.

Holmes I agree that the proponents of the NY law are not advocating for late term abortions. However, let’s move away from the day before scenario where the woman walks in and between contractions, wants an abortion. Clearly one purpose of the law is to allow late term abortions, in consulatations with the patient’s medical providers. As noted by Cradle this could be a nurse. It could also be a PA or a midwife. As has been defined in a Supreme Court case a woman’s “health”, in addition to physical issues, can also be emotional, psychological, familial or her age. So, I also have concerns that a nurse, PA or midwife is qualified to determine that the state of a woman wanting a late term abortion is truly in need so goes ahead and performs the procedure.

In the video attached to the article below, the president of the National Institute for Reproductive Health discusses this starting about the 5 min mark. When asked if the legislature who passed the law should monitor the aforementioned “medical providers”, she basically states it’s up to the medical community. There have been cases where doctors have been imprisoned for performing illegal abortions. Can you assure me that some doctors won’t peform late term abortions? It’d be pretty hard to prove he was wrong based on the catch all, the woman’s “health”. For years doctors have been running pill factories and just now they are getting some attention due to opioids. I guess our esteemed doctors and lawyers here can correct me but it seems to me their professions are less than proactive when it comes to monitoring their compatriots. So Holmes, why shouldn’t I be concerned that some late term abortions will happen despite the fact that according to you the law doesn’t allow it.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 743142002/

[kramerica.inc]

That’s the concern of most centrists that read the law. You can say the last minute abortions won’t happen, but the legislation says that it technically can.

There’s a common-sense chain of morality.

You can’t be pro-life and pro-death penalty.
You can’t be pro-abortion and anti-war.
You can’t be pro-abortion and pro civil rights.

[holmes435]

Deleting this cause it's just not worth the effort.