All things CoronaVirus

[njbill]

same goes for cheating the system. how are we cross checking on who has diabetes? who is a firefighter? frontline worker? a smoker? will we catch more or fewer peeps doing it nationally and getting as much out the door as fast as possible? could this be a small problem? yes. but i don't think so. and if you want to crosscheck this with any veracity, you've probably added work and manpower that's incalculable.

In New Jersey, it appears they aren’t checking on any qualifications, even age. It’s the honor system. That’s what I’ve seen in local news reports.

In my area a mega vaccination center opened yesterday in a now closed department store at a local mall. Saw a video of the inside. Looked very organized, very impressive. But they are only able to do 2400 vaccinations a day. Doesn’t sound like a very big number to me.

Had to sign up on two different websites (one state, one for the specific site). With relatively minimal problems, I was able to get an appointment (February 15) this morning. I was asked a series of questions online, but the site didn’t say anything about having to prove why I was eligible.

My eligibility is based on age so if I have to show my driver’s license when I show up, that’s fine with me. But if it were based on some type of underlying medical condition, it sounds like they would simply take my word for it. No indication you need to bring a doctor’s note.

And as was noted on this thread yesterday, “smoking” is a qualifying underlying condition. Doesn’t even say you have to have a smoking related disease or condition. Seems rather crazy to me.

[MDlaxfan76]

I quite agree which is why there'd need to be an auxiliary effort to reach those communities with low digital penetration/awareness. Harness community advocacy groups to do so hand in hand with public health force (Biden wants to add 100k employees...should have been done this summer...)

As to fraud, I'd do as much through medical professionals as possible (My Chart, etc), but simply requiring people to certify with their signature that the answers they give are truthful...do so at both the onset of the form and then at the end...this has been proven through behavioral science to dramatically reduce fraudulent answers in all sorts of situations... to negligible levels.

And yeah, I wouldn't put much energy into chasing down people who jumped a few positions in line...so they could actually get vaccinated... (unless you found someone was buying access).

Much bigger problem convincing people to get vaccinated than spanking those overly eager...

[MDlaxfan76]

same goes for cheating the system. how are we cross checking on who has diabetes? who is a firefighter? frontline worker? a smoker? will we catch more or fewer peeps doing it nationally and getting as much out the door as fast as possible? could this be a small problem? yes. but i don't think so. and if you want to crosscheck this with any veracity, you've probably added work and manpower that's incalculable.

In New Jersey, it appears they aren’t checking on any qualifications, even age. It’s the honor system. That’s what I’ve seen in local news reports.

In my area a mega vaccination center opened yesterday in a now closed department store at a local mall. Saw a video of the inside. Looked very organized, very impressive. But they are only able to do 2400 vaccinations a day. Doesn’t sound like a very big number to me.

Had to sign up on two different websites (one state, one for the specific site). With relatively minimal problems, I was able to get an appointment (February 15) this morning. I was asked a series of questions online, but the site didn’t say anything about having to prove why I was eligible.

My eligibility is based on age so if I have to show my driver’s license when I show up, that’s fine with me. But if it were based on some type of underlying medical condition, it sounds like they would simply take my word for it. No indication you need to bring a doctor’s note.

And as was noted on this thread yesterday, “smoking” is a qualifying underlying condition. Doesn’t even say you have to have a smoking related disease or condition. Seems rather crazy to me.

IMO, smoking should not be a qualifying condition...cardiovascular disease is quite another matter and smoking can be a factor in that, but the biological metrics would be things like blood pressure, bad cholesterol balance, and obesity. Looks like they just included smoking because its a risk factor in developing heart disease...so is bad nutrition and low exercise...

[njbill]

An angle I didn’t mention in my previous post is as follows. At least the questions I was required to answer online started with something like “do you have or have you ever had” the following conditions.

I had asthma as a kid. I don’t have it anymore, but I truthfully answered that I had had that condition.

I never smoked, but a former smoker could truthfully answer that he or she “had” been a smoker.

On the one hand, I agree that it is a positive thing to get more people vaccinated sooner. On the other hand, with appointments being limited, I don’t like the idea of line jumpers. And I don’t like the idea that the state apparently is allowing young people such as smokers to get vaccinated ahead of others.

In New Jersey, if you have or did have one of the enumerated conditions and you are between the ages of 16 and 64, you are technically eligible to get vaccinated. So a healthy 30-year-old who smoked in his teens can get a vaccination while a healthy 64-year-old can’t. Doesn’t seem right to me.

[wgdsr]

An angle I didn’t mention in my previous post is as follows. At least the questions I was required to answer online started with something like “do you have or have you ever had” the following conditions.

I had asthma as a kid. I don’t have it anymore, but I truthfully answered that I had had that condition.

I never smoked, but a former smoker could truthfully answer that he or she “had” been a smoker.

On the one hand, I agree that it is a positive thing to get more people vaccinated sooner. On the other hand, with appointments being limited, I don’t like the idea of line jumpers. And I don’t like the idea that the state apparently is allowing young people such as smokers to get vaccinated ahead of others.

In New Jersey, if you have or did have one of the enumerated conditions and you are between the ages of 16 and 64, you are technically eligible to get vaccinated. So a healthy 30-year-old who smoked in his teens can get a vaccination while a healthy 64-year-old can’t. Doesn’t seem right to me.

to me, age is the only way you can do it efficiently once you get past nursing homes. simplify what you can. groups and delivery points. leverage the states.

btw, 2400 a day to me is a signif number. do 600 of those sites around the entire country per day and you have your production levels and then some right now. 2,000 (40 per state on average) sites and you could average 500-600 per day.

[tech37]

Operation Warp Speed leaders waited more than two months to approve a plan to distribute and administer Covid-19 vaccines proposed by U.S. health officials

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-v ... 1610737935

"We are rounding the corner..."

"It will go away by itself..."

"After Nov. 4th, no one will be talking about COVID..."

MAGA

I think we get it and agree. Trump is an a**#&@* and he along with the feds are to blame for the situation we are in. Yet, isn’t this old news by now, why keep beating a dead horse?

How about we look forward instead of bitching about what has already transpired. Hopefully, Biden will be able to deliver on his promise of 100 million shot in his first 100 days.

How about we can "walk and chew gum at the same time".

Seems to me that recognizing the hole we're in, how we got here, the difficulties associated given the disappointing failures that will be the reality upon takeover, are all important as we think about the going forward parts.

And until both sides recognize and admit that both sides are responsible for the hole we're in, nothing changes...and unfortunately, may get worse.

"both sides" of what?

As in the politicization of a disease.

what are the two "sides"?

I see those who denied it was a problem, the 'just another flu' crowd, those who thought it would go away by April, go away in sunlight, not return in the fall, no need to wear masks crowd...blame it on the Chinese crowd...

and those who thought it was deadly serious and needed to be addressed full-on with science and public health leading the way...sacrifices to normal life being necessary...

Should never have been a Red vs Blue thing, but that IMO was driven by a President who went all-in on the denial side of the ledger, fanned the flames of resistance against the science and public health recommendations.

But perhaps you see this differently?

Before you start with the scoff and ridicule, I agree/acknowledge how much Trump F'd up re Covid...OK? I've said it on here before and went so far at the end of the summer to state that Trump will lose the election due to Covid and his sh!tty response to it.

Now try to consider the message here, not to dismiss based on the messenger. I realize that won't be easy for you.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/o ... s-2188255/

Also, let's recall what was happening the same time we were learning we had a serious problem on our hands. The Ds, Resistance Cult in general, and MSM were 24/7 impeachment (talk about a distraction!) when we all should have been 24/7 Covid. So indirectly I blame the left and left-leaning media's impeachment distraction for the problematic early response to the disease.

From the beginning, IMO, the anti-Trump side has taken every opportunity to pi$$ on everything that the administration did or said re Covid whether justified or not. Why hasn't anyone on the left admitted that science too was taken completely by surprise along with our medical institutions, CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc. Talk about unpreparedness, screw ups, and mixed-messaging!

Also, I completely disagree with your characterization that science was somehow ignored/not trusted when the vaccines were developed under Trump and his administration at a pace not seen before. If you don't realize that their push and funding had everything to do with what may end up saving us, I don't know what else to say.

[youthathletics]

An angle I didn’t mention in my previous post is as follows. At least the questions I was required to answer online started with something like “do you have or have you ever had” the following conditions.

I had asthma as a kid. I don’t have it anymore, but I truthfully answered that I had had that condition.

I never smoked, but a former smoker could truthfully answer that he or she “had” been a smoker.

On the one hand, I agree that it is a positive thing to get more people vaccinated sooner. On the other hand, with appointments being limited, I don’t like the idea of line jumpers. And I don’t like the idea that the state apparently is allowing young people such as smokers to get vaccinated ahead of others.

In New Jersey, if you have or did have one of the enumerated conditions and you are between the ages of 16 and 64, you are technically eligible to get vaccinated. So a healthy 30-year-old who smoked in his teens can get a vaccination while a healthy 64-year-old can’t. Doesn’t seem right to me.

to me, age is the only way you can do it efficiently once you get past nursing homes. simplify what you can. groups and delivery points. leverage the states.

btw, 2400 a day to me is a signif number. do 600 of those sites around the entire country per day and you have your production levels and then some right now. 2,000 (40 per state on average) sites and you could average 500-600 per day.

Shut down Chic-Fil-A for a few weeks, make them THE vax depot, and we'll have the entire country done in record time. And they will be polite and answer you with 'my pleasure".

[wgdsr]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

[youthathletics]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

Trane Technologies (Thermo King) was on the team to help support this very low temp transportation/logistic issue form the onset... https://www.wesh.com/article/containers ... s/34950600#

[njbill]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

I registered on the state site earlier in the week. Got an email acknowledgment.

I registered on the site for the specific distribution center yesterday afternoon. It is being administered by a local hospital network in the area. This morning, I got an email that told me I could sign up for an appointment. First available date was February 15 so I grabbed one of the timeslots.

[wgdsr]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

I registered on the state site earlier in the week. Got an email acknowledgment.

I registered on the site for the specific distribution center yesterday afternoon. It is being administered by a local hospital network in the area. This morning, I got an email that told me I could sign up for an appointment. First available date was February 15 so I grabbed one of the timeslots.

so to clarify... you were not notified by the state in any way to go register? you heard elsewhere or thought to do it?

[a fan]

Why hasn't anyone on the left admitted that science too was taken completely by surprise along with our medical institutions, CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc. Talk about unpreparedness, screw ups, and mixed-messaging!

[njbill]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

I registered on the state site earlier in the week. Got an email acknowledgment.

I registered on the site for the specific distribution center yesterday afternoon. It is being administered by a local hospital network in the area. This morning, I got an email that told me I could sign up for an appointment. First available date was February 15 so I grabbed one of the timeslots.

so to clarify... you were not notified by the state in any way to go register? you heard elsewhere or thought to do it?

Correct.

This week, New Jersey added +65s to the list of eligible people. Since I am now eligible, I started paying a lot closer attention to the sign-up process.

I get the state’s Covid email notifications. One of those this week provided directions for signing up for vaccinations. At around the same time, a friend of mine texted me that he had signed up on the state’s website, suggesting that I do so. There were also news articles about this. All of these things prompted me to sign up on the state website.

As to registering for the specific site, I got that notice from a friend; however, there have been multiple media reports about how to sign up for vaccinations at this site. Yesterday afternoon I drove over to the place to check it out. Saw that it was open and saw a sign saying how to sign up, confirming what my friend told me. One of my doctors is associated with the hospital system that is administering vaccinations at this site so I already have a “my chart” online account with them. The notice I got this morning came through that account.

[CU88]

"both sides"?!?

"unity"

Garry Kasparov ⁦‪@Kasparov63‬⁩

Attack, grab territory, then sue for peace and call your victims the warmongers. The GOP's calls for deescalation and unity today are much like the pattern of foreign aggression by dictatorships.

[wgdsr]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/biden-t ... idappshare

here is joe talking about fema and ng and building vaccine sites. although it doesn't say how many.

you have the pharmacies saying they have the capacity and then some, but distribution to that... with vaccines that have crazy temperature and storage needs, sounds like a wasteful enterprise. how many drug stores are there? 40,000? 100,000? more? you're going to match 180 or 250 or however many doses exactly how? appointments and people don't show? you can't just put it back in the freezer. talk about complicating things.

njbill... were you contacted by the state first or vice versa?

I registered on the state site earlier in the week. Got an email acknowledgment.

I registered on the site for the specific distribution center yesterday afternoon. It is being administered by a local hospital network in the area. This morning, I got an email that told me I could sign up for an appointment. First available date was February 15 so I grabbed one of the timeslots.

so to clarify... you were not notified by the state in any way to go register? you heard elsewhere or thought to do it?

Correct.

This week, New Jersey added +65s to the list of eligible people. Since I am now eligible, I started paying a lot closer attention to the sign-up process.

I get the state’s Covid email notifications. One of those this week provided directions for signing up for vaccinations. At around the same time, a friend of mine texted me that he had signed up on the state’s website, suggesting that I do so. There were also news articles about this. All of these things prompted me to sign up on the state website.

As to registering for the specific site, I got that notice from a friend; however, there have been multiple media reports about how to sign up for vaccinations at this site. Yesterday afternoon I drove over to the place to check it out. Saw that it was open and saw a sign saying how to sign up, confirming what my friend told me. One of my doctors is associated with the hospital system that is administering vaccinations at this site so I already have a “my chart” online account with them. The notice I got this morning came through that account.

thanks. all i'm getting at and asking... the local x (state, county) is not out there notifying everyone. or even just people your age for now. nothing has come to my house or email unsolicited and certainly not to my elderly parent.

what it means? those that are not exposed enough to the media or clued in friends or email lists are out of luck. can't imagine how many people slip thru the cracks.

[Kismet]

"both sides"?!?

"unity"

Garry Kasparov ⁦‪@Kasparov63‬⁩

Attack, grab territory, then sue for peace and call your victims the warmongers. The GOP's calls for deescalation and unity today are much like the pattern of foreign aggression by dictatorships.

As a former Soviet chess world champion, Kasparov has seen it up close and personal. Folks here would be wise to pay attention to his advice on how to deal with dictators.

[MDlaxfan76]

Operation Warp Speed leaders waited more than two months to approve a plan to distribute and administer Covid-19 vaccines proposed by U.S. health officials

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-v ... 1610737935

"We are rounding the corner..."

"It will go away by itself..."

"After Nov. 4th, no one will be talking about COVID..."

MAGA

I think we get it and agree. Trump is an a**#&@* and he along with the feds are to blame for the situation we are in. Yet, isn’t this old news by now, why keep beating a dead horse?

How about we look forward instead of bitching about what has already transpired. Hopefully, Biden will be able to deliver on his promise of 100 million shot in his first 100 days.

How about we can "walk and chew gum at the same time".

Seems to me that recognizing the hole we're in, how we got here, the difficulties associated given the disappointing failures that will be the reality upon takeover, are all important as we think about the going forward parts.

And until both sides recognize and admit that both sides are responsible for the hole we're in, nothing changes...and unfortunately, may get worse.

"both sides" of what?

As in the politicization of a disease.

what are the two "sides"?

I see those who denied it was a problem, the 'just another flu' crowd, those who thought it would go away by April, go away in sunlight, not return in the fall, no need to wear masks crowd...blame it on the Chinese crowd...

and those who thought it was deadly serious and needed to be addressed full-on with science and public health leading the way...sacrifices to normal life being necessary...

Should never have been a Red vs Blue thing, but that IMO was driven by a President who went all-in on the denial side of the ledger, fanned the flames of resistance against the science and public health recommendations.

But perhaps you see this differently?

Before you start with the scoff and ridicule, I agree/acknowledge how much Trump F'd up re Covid...OK? I've said it on here before and went so far at the end of the summer to state that Trump will lose the election due to Covid and his sh!tty response to it.

Now try to consider the message here, not to dismiss based on the messenger. I realize that won't be easy for you.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/o ... s-2188255/

Also, let's recall what was happening the same time we were learning we had a serious problem on our hands. The Ds, Resistance Cult in general, and MSM were 24/7 impeachment (talk about a distraction!) when we all should have been 24/7 Covid. So indirectly I blame the left and left-leaning media's impeachment distraction for the problematic early response to the disease.

From the beginning, IMO, the anti-Trump side has taken every opportunity to pi$$ on everything that the administration did or said re Covid whether justified or not. Why hasn't anyone on the left admitted that science too was taken completely by surprise along with our medical institutions, CDC, WHO, Fauci, etc. Talk about unpreparedness, screw ups, and mixed-messaging!

Also, I completely disagree with your characterization that science was somehow ignored/not trusted when the vaccines were developed under Trump and his administration at a pace not seen before. If you don't realize that their push and funding had everything to do with what may end up saving us, I don't know what else to say.

tech, I thank you for acknowledging that Trump's response was F'd up.

And yes, you are correct that I view Hanson as nothing more than a dishonest right wing propagandist. That piece certainly did not persuade me otherwise.

Your post above is permeated by the propaganda, whether you realize it or not, the angry verbiage like "Resistance Cult" and lots and lots of related BS. I'm sure it must be difficult to break free of all the disinformation, but you're certainly invited to do so.

The notion that the nation should have been laser focused on COVID when we were somehow distracted by Impeachment is a spectacular case of disinformation. Did ANYONE in the Administration with such knowledge, particularly POTUS, tell the nation we had an enormous problem brewing with COVID that we should be paying laser attention to? Nope. In fact, we have tape of Trump privately admitting to the knowledge that it was a very big deal, but choosing to downplay it nevertheless. And then they tacked hard to denial, more and more and more as the months wore on.

And you're going to blame the D's and MSM for thinking Impeachment was important???

The one thing I'd agree about is that any large gatherings, particularly without masks, were potential super spreader events. Didn't matter if it was celebrating a sports championship, or an election result, or a protest, or a political rally, or a concert, big events with people in close proximity were dangerous. Some, however, were filled with people explicitly deciding to not wear masks as a political statement of not giving a sh-t about others, somehow seen as a statement of support of Der Leader. Those were the most dangerous for spread. And, frankly, the least excusable.

EDIT: I meant to acknowledge that the vaccine development was a success...what I think is appalling is the notion that Trump had anything in reality to do with that. Heck, the first vaccine to get through FDA didn't take any federal money...this was a tremendous success for the scientists, for sure...and let's just say that Trump didn't somehow prevent that from happening...good on him. Give him 'credit'. But the planning for actual vaccinations was another FUBAR...painfully, this is really due to the ideological assumption that government, especially the federal gov't, can't do things effectively. And Trump used that ideological bias to avoid responsibility...

But hey, maybe you just think that's more p-ssing on Trump and will ignore it. Or you can break free for the Trump disinformation machine.

[wgdsr]

to say that trump had nothing to do with vaccines and lay almost all distribution issues at his feet doesn't lend anyone as a neutral observer.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Trump Administration Was Just Kidding When It Said It Had Tons More Vaccine Doses to Ship Out (It Has Zero)

Winning

[Typical Lax Dad]

to say that trump had nothing to do with vaccines and lay almost all distribution issues at his feet doesn't lend anyone as a neutral observer.

These accomplishments are remarkable, but they are not “miracles,” in the sense that they sprang fully formed from work that began in the spring. They relied on basic research done over decades in government, academic and company research labs. Even the financial model used to insulate vaccine makers from financial risk traced back to an agency that Congress created in late 2006 to incentivize companies to develop urgently needed medicines.