2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[MDlaxfan76]

Looks like GOP chickensh*ts will coalesce around the notion that there is, constitutionally, no post-office impeachment. This is the reason Luttig put the piece in the WaPo: so "conservatives" had a creditable position to avoid an impeachment trial, asserting the Senate no longer "has jurisdiction" over Trump after 1/20@12:01.

Clever and, predictably, wrong on the Constitution again.

But wait, was it the WP or NYT who assured us that Mitch supported impeachment & conviction ?
He hasn't spoken to Trump in weeks & his wife resigned her cabinet post.
Another wishful unnamed sourced bombshell story, fabricated to influence an outcome, fizzles.
Without 67 commited Senate votes to convict, then 50 to bar future service, it's all just more political theater.

These topics are unrelated. Elder-care much?

So are you exempting Mitch from the GOP chickenshi*ts ? Which WP story do you ref ?
Was it the WP or NYT bombshell that hyped our hopes that Mitch was on the impeachment train , & would lead his caucus to conviction ?

Do you have some blinding insight about McConnell's intent now, Salty...or did you get this wishful thinking from Q again?

The reporting has been that we don't know what McConnell's going to do, but that itself is hugely different than last go round.

[ggait]

But wait, was it the WP or NYT who assured us that Mitch supported impeachment & conviction ?

Mitch has it set up exactly how he likes -- see how the wind blows, and keep all options open.

Depending on what happens in the next couple weeks, Mitch can go Liz Cheney if that turns out to be the smart play. Or he can avoid a vote against Trump on some process grounds (like that so very lame Luttig interpretation). Thing about Mitch is that he's lasted this long not because he is a good leader; he's lasted because he's such a good follower of his GOP members.

A lot may come out during that time -- more bad news on how/why the Capital riot went down, pardons, self-pardons, static around the Inauguration, other crazy stuff from Trump.

I think the better play is to kill shot Trump, so he's not holding you hostage for the next 2-4 years. But there are so many more (McCarthy, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, etc.) who want to keep playing footsie with Trump. Because they think they'll be able to get his base, but somehow not get stuck with the Trump cray. Good luck with that.

[seacoaster]

Looks like GOP chickensh*ts will coalesce around the notion that there is, constitutionally, no post-office impeachment. This is the reason Luttig put the piece in the WaPo: so "conservatives" had a creditable position to avoid an impeachment trial, asserting the Senate no longer "has jurisdiction" over Trump after 1/20@12:01.

Clever and, predictably, wrong on the Constitution again.

But wait, was it the WP or NYT who assured us that Mitch supported impeachment & conviction ?
He hasn't spoken to Trump in weeks & his wife resigned her cabinet post.
Another wishful unnamed sourced bombshell story, fabricated to influence an outcome, fizzles.
Without 67 commited Senate votes to convict, then 50 to bar future service, it's all just more political theater.

These topics are unrelated. Elder-care much?

So are you exempting Mitch from the GOP chickenshi*ts ? Which WP story do you ref ?
Was it the WP or NYT bombshell that hyped our hopes that Mitch was on the impeachment train , & would lead his caucus to conviction ?

You are talking about something different from the WaPo article I alluded to. There was a piece in the Post by J. Michael Luttig, a former Fourth Circuit judge and Federalist Society type. In it, Luttig asserts that the Senate does not have the jurisdiction or power to sit in an impeachment trial if the impeached person is no longer in office. Tom "Pinochet" Cotton and perhaps others have started to chirp this out now, as a way of avoiding a vote at all, to say nothing of a vote to convict.

I made no comment or allusion to the reporting about McConnell's possible vote on impeachment. The tip in my original post was the name "Luttig."

[njbill]

Thanks I was adding in the factor of having been pardoned, whether by Pence or Biden or 'self-pardon'...how does that effect taking the 5th in a criminal proceeding, how does it effect in an Impeachment trial? I'm guessing the Impeachment is the same, he can do whatever he wants, the Senators can judge...

Adding in a pardon would change the equation considerably. A Pence pardon would be valid, though word is now unlikely given the way T**** has treated Pence of late and the seriousness of T****'s crimes last week. A Biden pardon will NEVER happen. Sounds like a self pardon is possible. We'll know soon enough.

If Pence pardons T****, the first question is what (federal) crimes are covered. Obviously T**** wouldn't be federally prosecuted for any such crimes so the issue of the 5th wouldn't come up there. If the pardon is broad and does not mention specific crimes, the permissibility of its breadth would only be tested if a federal prosecutor brought an indictment. Some commentators say pardons have to specifically mention the crime the pardon covers, and that a blanket pardon is ineffective. A court would have to decide that issue. If the pardon covers everything, then T**** walks (indictment dismissed). If it doesn't, he can be prosecuted and would have 5th A. rights.

In short, if a pardon covers the crime, there will be no prosecution and the 5th A. issue won't come up. If a pardon doesn't cover a crime that gets charged, T**** would be able to take the 5th.

Similarly, with a self pardon, the feds would need to indict T**** for the constitutionality of a self pardon to be tested. I assume the courts would regard that as a unique threshold issue which almost certainly would go up to the U.S. Supreme Court, though it is possible the trial court could reject the self pardon defense and move on to the trial in which case T**** would be able to raise the self pardon on appeal if convicted. But for that to happen, the appellate courts, including SCOTUS, would have to reject an interlocutory appeal. I don't think that would happen.

If state crimes are charged, T**** still has 5th A. rights as to those crimes regardless of a Pence or self pardon.

In an impeachment trial, if Pence has pardoned T**** for the Jan. 6 events, I think T**** would have to testify. He'd have no 5th A. rights. The one caveat is local D.C. crimes. Would they be covered by the pardon? In other words, are they "federal crimes" covered by the President's pardon power? I've seen talking heads on TV say "yes" to that. That's my gut feeling as well, but I'm not sure. A twist is that if the "local D.C." issue isn't clearly decided by the courts already, then the Senate might allow T**** to take the 5th to preserve those rights.

A self pardon would present interesting issues at an impeachment trial. T****'s lawyer would have to argue the pardon covers the Jan. 6 events to which the House managers might respond, OK, then T**** has to testify. T****'s lawyers might then say T**** still should be able to take the 5th if there is any uncertainty as to whether the pardon covers local D.C. crimes. Could T**** be required to take the stand at his impeachment trial and forced to take the 5th in front of the Senate and before a national TV audience? In theory, yes, if the 50 D Senators and at least one R Senator votes for that.

(We'll assume for now that Roberts will preside and that Harris won't vote, but there seems to be a question as to whether Roberts will preside since the Constitution says the Chief presides when the "President" is tried. Depending on when the trial starts, T**** may not be president so will Roberts preside? My guess is he will, but we shall see.)

[DMac]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

[runrussellrun]

What about tRump, today, as current POTUSA, and his authority to pardon others?

asking, for a friend. Former booz allen employee and true American hero. ryhmes with edward snowden

[njbill]

But wait, was it the WP or NYT who assured us that Mitch supported impeachment & conviction ?

Mitch has it set up exactly how he likes -- see how the wind blows, and keep all options open.

Depending on what happens in the next couple weeks, Mitch can go Liz Cheney if that turns out to be the smart play. Or he can avoid a vote against Trump on some process grounds (like that so very lame Luttig interpretation). Thing about Mitch is that he's lasted this long not because he is a good leader; he's lasted because he's such a good follower of his GOP members.

A lot may come out during that time -- more bad news on how/why the Capital riot went down, pardons, self-pardons, static around the Inauguration, other crazy stuff from Trump.

I think the better play is to kill shot Trump, so he's not holding you hostage for the next 2-4 years. But there are so many more (McCarthy, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, etc.) who want to keep playing footsie with Trump. Because they think they'll be able to get his base, but somehow not get stuck with the Trump cray. Good luck with that.

Mitch will make his decision with one thing and one thing only in mind: the 2022 Senate elections. What decision in his mind gives the Rs the best chance of taking back the Senate?

I haven't looked at who is up in 2022 or tried to analyze how a T**** conviction/disqualification would impact those elections, but you can bet Mitch has and will continuously check on the wind speed and direction until he has to cast a vote.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Birds of a feather gathering in DC

[runrussellrun]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

defininitely leaning to pardoning himself........via a Stormy Daniels happy ending type of self pleasure

......just think he IS too lazy to do the paperwork. If he pardons that former Friends actor, Cohen I think his name IS, IS a lawyer and it could be a matter of scratching backs.

A side note, I ran into Storm video a few days back....when, apparently, "she" was in her prime. Would rather bang THIS guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmtFQV5iEk

[njbill]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

I think he will, too. He thinks (wrongly) that the Supreme Court will vote for him.

He is dumb or blind and is rejecting or ignoring advice that a self pardon is more likely to result in an indictment because the constitutionality of a self pardon simply must be tested in the courts.

Just to pull some numbers out of a hat, I say the chances of him getting indicted by the feds if he self pardons go up 50%. His chances of POTUS upholding a self pardon are 5%.

[youthathletics]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

defininitely leaning to pardoning himself........via a Stormy Daniels happy ending type of self pleasure

......just think he IS too lazy to do the paperwork. If he pardons that former Friends actor, Cohen I think his name IS, IS a lawyer and it could be a matter of scratching backs.

A side note, I ran into Storm video a few days back....when, apparently, "she" was in her prime. Would rather bang THIS guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmtFQV5iEk

Seka was way hotter in her day.

[DMac]

+1

[seacoaster]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

I think he will, too. He thinks (wrongly) that the Supreme Court will vote for him.

He is dumb or blind and is rejecting or ignoring advice that a self pardon is more likely to result in an indictment because the constitutionality of a self pardon simply must be tested in the courts.

Just to pull some numbers out of a hat, I say the chances of him getting indicted by the feds if he self pardons go up 50%. His chances of POTUS upholding a self pardon are 5%.

I think he will pardon himself.

Question back at you both: Will he pardon Gentleman Drip, Rudy Giuliani?

[a fan]

I think the better play is to kill shot Trump, so he's not holding you hostage for the next 2-4 years. But there are so many more (McCarthy, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, etc.) who want to keep playing footsie with Trump. Because they think they'll be able to get his base, but somehow not get stuck with the Trump cray. Good luck with that.

The kill shot of Trump is the easiest call in the world. UNLESS you want Trump running again. Because he will announce his candidacy immediately to keep himself in the spotlight so that he can complain about the Deep State as NYSTate prosecutors---and others----go after him.

OF COURSE that's what Trump will do. If you're a Republican, do you want four more years where you're irrelevant, and Trump is still the head of the party?

That's the question. We'll find out the answer soon enough.

From a R Congressman's view, he only benefit I can think of to keeping Trump around, outside of trying to get his base to support you, is that he's a cash register, and will sign any spending bill you put in front of him......

[Kismet]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

I think he will, too. He thinks (wrongly) that the Supreme Court will vote for him.

He is dumb or blind and is rejecting or ignoring advice that a self pardon is more likely to result in an indictment because the constitutionality of a self pardon simply must be tested in the courts.

Just to pull some numbers out of a hat, I say the chances of him getting indicted by the feds if he self pardons go up 50%. His chances of POTUS upholding a self pardon are 5%.

So if DOPUS self-pardons before Senate trial - how does that affect things? I've read that he doesn't have a 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination as that is not part of the Senate rule package unless the Senators put that in - in fact no due process or any normal rules of criminal law apply to an impeachment procedure.

[njbill]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

I think he will, too. He thinks (wrongly) that the Supreme Court will vote for him.

He is dumb or blind and is rejecting or ignoring advice that a self pardon is more likely to result in an indictment because the constitutionality of a self pardon simply must be tested in the courts.

Just to pull some numbers out of a hat, I say the chances of him getting indicted by the feds if he self pardons go up 50%. His chances of POTUS upholding a self pardon are 5%.

I think he will pardon himself.

Question back at you both: Will he pardon Gentleman Drip, Rudy Giuliani?

Boy, that may have become a tough one given the recent reporting.

I think he will at the end of the day, but I'll bet Rudy is sweating some serious hair dye right now.

[runrussellrun]

Okay, time for a little poll:
Who thinks Trump will pardon himself,
who thinks he won't.
I think he will....cuz he can and he's
that kind of arrogant aszhole (and cuz
he's real scared).

defininitely leaning to pardoning himself........via a Stormy Daniels happy ending type of self pleasure

......just think he IS too lazy to do the paperwork. If he pardons that former Friends actor, Cohen I think his name IS, IS a lawyer and it could be a matter of scratching backs.

A side note, I ran into Storm video a few days back....when, apparently, "she" was in her prime. Would rather bang THIS guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmtFQV5iEk

Seka was way hotter in her day.

who?

....i will internet it.

[njbill]

So if DOPUS self-pardons before Senate trial - how does that affect things? I've read that he doesn't have a 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination as that is not part of the Senate rule package unless the Senators put that in - in fact no due process or any normal rules of criminal law apply to an impeachment procedure.

See my 3:54 p.m. post in this thread for my thoughts.

While it is true normal criminal rules don't apply in a Senate impeachment trial, I can't imagine the Senators would not allow T**** to invoke the 5th if he had a valid basis to do so. If he were to be forced to testify and if he gave incriminating testimony, that testimony could be used to convict him in a criminal trial. That would be extraordinarily unfair and just wrong.

Now if T**** were to refuse to testify in response to a valid Senate subpoena under circumstances where he had no 5th A. rights, theoretically, the Senate could hold him in contempt and put him in the Senate jail which I imagine is getting renovated right about now. I can see it now. 50 D Senators plus Mittens vote to incarcerate the T****ster.

[Typical Lax Dad]

That Gym Jordan is something else!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics ... _expansion

[Typical Lax Dad]

Shine a bright light in them.