Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[old salt]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

As if YOU followed the FBI's lead when throwing around the word "coup" for four years.

Come on man. You're not REALLY going to provide this much irony and comedy the next four years, are you?

Or is the plan for you to tell us not to do all the things that YOU did over the last four years?

I didn't follow the lead of FBI malefactors in staging a coup.
Fortunately, they're now gone from the FBI ...& appearing on MSNBC & CNN.

[a fan]

I didn't follow the lead of FBI malefactors in staging a coup.

Right.

You'll let us know when Strozk and Page beat a policeman to death who was literally defending our Representative Democracy......right?

[holmes435]

I didn't follow the lead of FBI malefactors in staging a coup.
Fortunately, they're now gone from the FBI ...& appearing on MSNBC & CNN.

You heard it here first, the DEEP STATE is no more.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

[old salt]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

[old salt]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

Not in the slightest, the prosecutor was very clear that what we're going to learn through the prosecutions, based on their evidence already in hand, is going to be very horrifying. Not all of the crimes will rise to the most extreme levels, of course. I'm fine on judging the individual based on the specific evidence, but NO ONE who broke through into the Capitol was not guilty of a serious crime (unless a bonafide press representative). Way beyond "criminal vandalism".

ALL of those people were part of seditious, violent act to overturn an election. Without exception.

[old salt]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

Not in the slightest, the prosecutor was very clear that what we're going to learn through the prosecutions, based on their evidence already in hand, is going to be very horrifying. Not all of the crimes will rise to the most extreme levels, of course. I'm fine on judging the individual based on the specific evidence, but NO ONE who broke through into the Capitol was not guilty of a serious crime (unless a bonafide press representative). Way beyond "criminal vandalism".

ALL of those people were part of seditious, violent act to overturn an election. Without exception.

Ah yes. You've already established their intent.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

Not in the slightest, the prosecutor was very clear that what we're going to learn through the prosecutions, based on their evidence already in hand, is going to be very horrifying. Not all of the crimes will rise to the most extreme levels, of course. I'm fine on judging the individual based on the specific evidence, but NO ONE who broke through into the Capitol was not guilty of a serious crime (unless a bonafide press representative). Way beyond "criminal vandalism".

ALL of those people were part of seditious, violent act to overturn an election. Without exception.

Ah yes. You've already established their intent.

Yup.
Now, did they All intend to kill someone? I doubt it, but a whole lot of them told others they were willing to die in their effort. Clearly willing to do violence, as "required". And the storming was very, very violent.

But sure the sedition was full-on their intent. I do think most of them felt justified in this effort, but sedition nevertheless. Some may simply be whackjobs attracted to violence, but most thought they were on a righteous cause to save their country, after all that's what they were told to think.

[old salt]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

Not in the slightest, the prosecutor was very clear that what we're going to learn through the prosecutions, based on their evidence already in hand, is going to be very horrifying. Not all of the crimes will rise to the most extreme levels, of course. I'm fine on judging the individual based on the specific evidence, but NO ONE who broke through into the Capitol was not guilty of a serious crime (unless a bonafide press representative). Way beyond "criminal vandalism".

ALL of those people were part of seditious, violent act to overturn an election. Without exception.

Ah yes. You've already established their intent.

Yup.
Now, did they All intend to kill someone? I doubt it, but a whole lot of them told others they were willing to die in their effort. Clearly willing to do violence, as "required". And the storming was very, very violent.

But sure the sedition was full-on their intent. I do think most of them felt justified in this effort, but sedition nevertheless. Some may simply be whackjobs attracted to violence, but most thought they were on a righteous cause to save their country, after all that's what they were told to think.

No charge for sedition or incitement of insurrection.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... tol-brock/

A retired Air Force officer in body armor and clutching plastic handcuffs in the Senate chamber has prompted questions about if and how retired veterans could be summoned and tried by the military justice system for their alleged role in the riot at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Larry Rendell Brock, a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, was arrested in Texas and charged with one count of knowingly entering a restricted building and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct, civilian prosecutors said.

His arrest has ignited debate on the practice of mustering retirees to face crimes out of uniform, a practice some legal experts have argued is unconstitutional.

From Ronan Farrow's New Yorker article :
Brock was arrested in Texas and charged in federal court, in the District of Columbia, with knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

[Kismet]

It is not uncommon to file initial charges and then amend those complaints with additional ones as the investigation uncovers more evidence and facts.

So I would not be hanging my hat on what is out there right now. Watch the indictments of these various individuals and then watch them again because indictments often get superseded as well.

That said, sedition and incitement are high bars to clear for prosecution but if the evidence and testimony ultimately supports it the Feds will proceed with that.

Not for nothing, but it will be Merrick Garland's DoJ who will do it - a history check indicates he is the DoJ attorney who led the McVeigh CAPITAL case which ended in a conviction and execution.

[cradleandshoot]

It is not uncommon to file initial charges and then amend those complaints with additional ones as the investigation uncovers more evidence and facts.

So I would not be hanging my hat on what is out there right now. Watch the indictments of these various individuals and then watch them again because indictments often get superseded as well.

That said, sedition and incitement are high bars to clear for prosecution but if the evidence and testimony ultimately supports it the Feds will proceed with that.

Not for nothing, but it will be Merrick Garland's DoJ who will do it - a history check indicates he is the DoJ attorney who led the McVeigh CAPITAL case which ended in a conviction and execution.

I would hope that AG Garland enters his new job with no axes to grind. With the new rules against capital punishment that his boss believes in Timothy McVeigh would still be alive and kicking today. I wonder if Garland has any regrets about Timmy being put to death by the US gubmint? IMO he should sleep very well at night.

[Kismet]

It is not uncommon to file initial charges and then amend those complaints with additional ones as the investigation uncovers more evidence and facts.

So I would not be hanging my hat on what is out there right now. Watch the indictments of these various individuals and then watch them again because indictments often get superseded as well.

That said, sedition and incitement are high bars to clear for prosecution but if the evidence and testimony ultimately supports it the Feds will proceed with that.

Not for nothing, but it will be Merrick Garland's DoJ who will do it - a history check indicates he is the DoJ attorney who led the McVeigh CAPITAL case which ended in a conviction and execution.

I would hope that AG Garland enters his new job with no axes to grind. With the new rules against capital punishment that his boss believes in Timothy McVeigh would still be alive and kicking today. I wonder if Garland has any regrets about Timmy being put to death by the US gubmint? IMO he should sleep very well at night.

Regardless of who was POTUS in 2001, Garland was the lead prosecuting attorney for DoJ and he supported and won a CAPITAL case in 1997 while Bill Clinton was the sitting President. I don't think he could use a prescription for Ambien.

[foreverlax]

Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty,
I'll be fine on critiquing the DC Mayor if we find that she was responsible for protecting federal property and failed to do so, that she dragged her heels when the call came for support. I'll critique congressional leaders who made such decisions, and I'll also critique Congress people who gave tours to white power insurrectionists in the days prior, who communicated their position during the siege, who encouraged the Big Lie and who voted to "object" even after the insurrection, and that weasel Jim Jordan...don't get me started on that scum sucker.

Yes, Trump incited this, Inciter-In-chief...but he was not alone, nor should he alone be held accountable.

In the interest of accuracy, when using inflammatory language like "insurrection " & "coup", & hurling accusations, it might be worth following the FBI's lead until they release more details from their investigation.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-of ... tol-011221

The FBI receives enormous amounts of information and intelligence... We have to separate the aspirational from the intentional and determine which of the individuals saying despicable things on the internet are just practicing keyboard bravado or they actually have the intent to do harm.

Hundreds of arrests have already been made. More will follow. It will be informative to see how many reflect malice aforethought vs how many reflect committing mayhem when an unexpected opportunity presented itself. That will help gauge the magnitude of the threat going forward.

Yeah, it will be "informative".

As to "inflammatory, I consider myself on darn safe ground in using the same language as Liz Cheney, all the former SecDefs, the current military leaders...how many such do I need to cite?

And wow what a rich one, you cautioning about the use of the word "coup"!

This was insurrection and sedition, for sure, the intent to overthrow the election of the President-elect including through violence is immensely clear, many declared this specific intent before even coming to DC, much less as they marched down the avenue, stormed the Capitol, called for the hanging of the Vice President, the hunting of the Speaker and any others who opposed the insurrection, the killing of a police man, the injuring of many others...

But sure, it will indeed be "informative" as more and more and more is revealed about those who participated, their intent to overthrow the government, and their various heinous other beliefs and intent.

Now, it will certainly also be interesting, "informative", to learn how they heard the words, read the tweets, etc of various people in high authority, those who took oaths to protect the Constitution.

And it sounds like we're also going to learn, as horrifying as it may be, that members of Congress and others actually aided these insurrectionists in their planning of the attack. Man, that should be truly beyond belief, yet these are the times in which we live.

But go ahead and fly air cover...

Air cover ? You're flying blind.

I'm talking about charging & convicting people in court for inciting an armed insurrection to overthrow a govt. That's a difficult case to make legally. You don't even know yet who has been charged with what. I'm talking about a trial with evidence, lawyers & due process. Not a political kangaroo court conducted by a bunch of rattled politicians. Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out. I don't recall you clamoring for justice for them.

I have been 100% clear that anyone who did violence or destroyed property should be prosecuted for such. I'm all for accountability, regardless of any sympathy I may have for the cause associated with those events, or not.

But this was insurrection and sedition and shame on you or anyone else for any mealy mouthed air cover for such.

Now, if you agree that's what went down, and agree with me that these folks should ALL be nailed for their acts, full penalties for such, then welcome.

Trump is currently the only one being impeached (done) and hopefully convicted by the Senate...for Incitement to Insurrection. That's Congress' job, and history will judge. He may also face prosecution in the courts.

There will likely also be a reckoning of those Congress people who contributed to the incitement...and even worse, those who aided and coordinated in any way with the actual attackers. Expulsion is the minimum appropriate remedy, prosecution in some cases may be appropriate.

And, of course, any withdrawal of financial or political or employment support for any of those involved in insurrection and sedition is wholly appropriate as well.

They should all be prosecuted & punished for any crimes that the evidence supports.
Inciting & conducting an insurrection requires much more than opportunistic criminal vandalism.
That's why I noted the cautionary tone in the FBI's initial statement.
Don't get your hopes up & get too far ahead of the evidence.

Not in the slightest, the prosecutor was very clear that what we're going to learn through the prosecutions, based on their evidence already in hand, is going to be very horrifying. Not all of the crimes will rise to the most extreme levels, of course. I'm fine on judging the individual based on the specific evidence, but NO ONE who broke through into the Capitol was not guilty of a serious crime (unless a bonafide press representative). Way beyond "criminal vandalism".

ALL of those people were part of seditious, violent act to overturn an election. Without exception.

Ah yes. You've already established their intent.

Yup.
Now, did they All intend to kill someone? I doubt it, but a whole lot of them told others they were willing to die in their effort. Clearly willing to do violence, as "required". And the storming was very, very violent.

But sure the sedition was full-on their intent. I do think most of them felt justified in this effort, but sedition nevertheless. Some may simply be whackjobs attracted to violence, but most thought they were on a righteous cause to save their country, after all that's what they were told to think.

No charge for sedition or incitement of insurrection.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... tol-brock/

A retired Air Force officer in body armor and clutching plastic handcuffs in the Senate chamber has prompted questions about if and how retired veterans could be summoned and tried by the military justice system for their alleged role in the riot at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Larry Rendell Brock, a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, was arrested in Texas and charged with one count of knowingly entering a restricted building and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct, civilian prosecutors said.

His arrest has ignited debate on the practice of mustering retirees to face crimes out of uniform, a practice some legal experts have argued is unconstitutional.

From Ronan Farrow's New Yorker article :
Brock was arrested in Texas and charged in federal court, in the District of Columbia, with knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

YET

[cradleandshoot]

It is not uncommon to file initial charges and then amend those complaints with additional ones as the investigation uncovers more evidence and facts.

So I would not be hanging my hat on what is out there right now. Watch the indictments of these various individuals and then watch them again because indictments often get superseded as well.

That said, sedition and incitement are high bars to clear for prosecution but if the evidence and testimony ultimately supports it the Feds will proceed with that.

Not for nothing, but it will be Merrick Garland's DoJ who will do it - a history check indicates he is the DoJ attorney who led the McVeigh CAPITAL case which ended in a conviction and execution.

I would hope that AG Garland enters his new job with no axes to grind. With the new rules against capital punishment that his boss believes in Timothy McVeigh would still be alive and kicking today. I wonder if Garland has any regrets about Timmy being put to death by the US gubmint? IMO he should sleep very well at night.

Regardless of who was POTUS in 2001, Garland was the lead prosecuting attorney for DoJ and he supported and won a CAPITAL case in 1997 while Bill Clinton was the sitting President. I don't think he could use a prescription for Ambien.

Garland could never win a capital case today working under his new boss. Timmy would be sitting in a federal prison today building LEGO buildings filled with imaginary federal employees and then knocking them to the ground. If Timmy committed the same crime today Garland would be advocating that he not be put to death. It is interesting the change in attitudes of people. Timmy blew up that federal building 30 years to soon. Instead of being put to death he would be sitting in prison cell and being able to relive his bravado with all of his new convict friends.

[MDlaxfan76]

So, what?
He'd undoubtedly be having a gay old time with roommate Bubba, instead...

[SCLaxAttack]

Where's the justice for all the business owners who had their buildings torched or looted, or innocent people who were terrorized in their car or while dining out.

Is he advocating for slave reparations, too?

[Kismet]

It is not uncommon to file initial charges and then amend those complaints with additional ones as the investigation uncovers more evidence and facts.

So I would not be hanging my hat on what is out there right now. Watch the indictments of these various individuals and then watch them again because indictments often get superseded as well.

That said, sedition and incitement are high bars to clear for prosecution but if the evidence and testimony ultimately supports it the Feds will proceed with that.

Not for nothing, but it will be Merrick Garland's DoJ who will do it - a history check indicates he is the DoJ attorney who led the McVeigh CAPITAL case which ended in a conviction and execution.

I would hope that AG Garland enters his new job with no axes to grind. With the new rules against capital punishment that his boss believes in Timothy McVeigh would still be alive and kicking today. I wonder if Garland has any regrets about Timmy being put to death by the US gubmint? IMO he should sleep very well at night.

Regardless of who was POTUS in 2001, Garland was the lead prosecuting attorney for DoJ and he supported and won a CAPITAL case in 1997 while Bill Clinton was the sitting President. I don't think he could use a prescription for Ambien.

Garland could never win a capital case today working under his new boss. Timmy would be sitting in a federal prison today building LEGO buildings filled with imaginary federal employees and then knocking them to the ground. If Timmy committed the same crime today Garland would be advocating that he not be put to death. It is interesting the change in attitudes of people. Timmy blew up that federal building 30 years to soon. Instead of being put to death he would be sitting in prison cell and being able to relive his bravado with all of his new convict friends.

Actually, if you had actually read up on "Timmy" you would also know that he told his lawyers to stop filing appeals and this contributed to if not led directly to his fate. He wanted to be a martyr.