2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:21 am As I said yesterday, one of only 2 acceptable options:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... nce-trump/
Missed that post.

Two options seem to me to be:

1) 25th Amendment...tough to pull off unless Pence and McConnell both green light it. Possible.

2) Impeachment and Conviction. House could impeach swiftly, Senate could do so swiftly. McConnell needs to lead the way.

Third option is more likely which is to continue to ride it out, mass resignations. Censure from Congress.

Fourth option would be to persuade Trump to resign...I doubt he'll do so even if promised a pardon by Pence...a pardon that should NEVER happen.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by kramerica.inc »

I think Pence will do it. He stood up to him last week, and I think he doesn't want to be remembered as Trump's lackey.
At the very least we should get an impeachment. With no discussion. Just a vote.
But I haven't listened to McConnell on yesterdays events.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:31 am I think Pence will do it. He stood up to him last week, and I think he doesn't want to be remembered as Trump's lackey.
At the very least we should get an impeachment. With no discussion. Just a vote.
But I haven't listened to McConnell on yesterdays events.
I hope you're right. And I am almost certain you are not. They don't have the stones to do it. The crowd that breached the Capitol yesterday is the effective base of the party now. They distance themselves from the Trump Cult, and only make the Holy Grail -- reelection -- harder by inviting an primary and a loss of votes during a general campaign.

If you are right, I'll be very happy to eat a plate of crow.
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Matnum PI
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Vermont Republican Gov. Phil Scott: "President Trump should resign or be removed from office by his Cabinet, or by the Congress." bit.ly/3s0nOpz
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by dislaxxic »

Pete Williams saying that 25th Amendment was not intended to be punitive, but for reasons of incapacitation (health). Remains to be seen, i guess, if that includes "mental" health. Williams feels the impeachment process would possibly be more appropriate, lacking some sort of concession/backing down by the Con. Chances of him retreating to Florida? About the same as this disaster ever being elected to anything else ever...

..
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by ggait »

NFW should Pence pardon Trump after yesterday. Because that pardon (like Ford's) would be legally enforce-able.

Trump should self-pardon (which is inevitable) and resign. By the end of today. If not, the whole Cabinet and WH staff should resign.

I'm not worried about Trump ever serving in office again. For all but the irretrievable, yesterday broke the camel's back. Trump probably did the country a service by finally revealing his toxicity in a way that only the craziest lost causers can deny. Nuts that it took gunfire inside the Capital to make the scales fall from the eyes.

Hopefully we can all enjoy watching Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley become the next Sarah Palin, selling reverse mortgages on cable channel 973. While the dead end 25% will not go away until they die off, they will have to go back to skulking in the shadows -- political correctness (i.e. social shaming) is actually pretty effective and helpful. The Trump flags will have to be taken off the pick up truck and stored in the garage with the Confederate flags, waiting for a future day (which hopefully will never come) when they can be proudly unfurled again.

My 84 year old MIL (church lady, anti-abortion single issue voter for decades) told me yesterday that she voted for Biden (I know she didn't) and that she stopped watching Fox News. Said she's quite surprised what different things she hears from other sources. True story.
Boycott stupid. Country over party.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Adam McKay@GhostPanther
15 mins ago
What to do if you’re in a fire:
1. Feel the door to see if it’s hot.
2. Get low on the ground to avoid smoke.
3. Check the stock market.
4. If it’s up resume normal activities.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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seacoaster wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:24 am Perfect. YA joined hip to hip, shoulder to shoulder with Nestor's Daddy:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1347020454603710464

What the heck is wrong with you?
You clearly have a tough time understanding people and actually hearing where they are coming from. You and I have never met and you do not know my heart. You and I are probably much-much closer on issues than you think. Enough.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Thomas L. Friedman @tomfriedman
17h
McConnell needs to lead a delegation of GOP leaders to the White House to tell Trump that he has to resign immediately -- or they will join with Democrats and impeach him. Otherwise, fellow Americans, what you saw today will be normalized.
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kramerica.inc
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by kramerica.inc »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:58 am Pete Williams saying that 25th Amendment was not intended to be punitive, but for reasons of incapacitation (health). Remains to be seen, i guess, if that includes "mental" health. Williams feels the impeachment process would possibly be more appropriate, lacking some sort of concession/backing down by the Con. Chances of him retreating to Florida? About the same as this disaster ever being elected to anything else ever...

..
Unlike when the 25th was written, mental health is now known to be a legit medical concern, covered by healthcare. So it's possible.
But I think it would probably be more likely, easier, and do the republican party better as a whole if they impeached him.
If the Republicans were smart, they would lead the effort. And I'd love to see that voter roll call.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:32 am
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:58 am Pete Williams saying that 25th Amendment was not intended to be punitive, but for reasons of incapacitation (health). Remains to be seen, i guess, if that includes "mental" health. Williams feels the impeachment process would possibly be more appropriate, lacking some sort of concession/backing down by the Con. Chances of him retreating to Florida? About the same as this disaster ever being elected to anything else ever...

..
Unlike when the 25th was written, mental health is now known to be a legit medical concern, covered by healthcare. So it's possible.
But I think it would probably be more likely, easier, and do the republican party better as a whole if they impeached him.
If the Republicans were smart, they would lead the effort. And I'd love to see that voter roll call.
+1
jhu72
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by jhu72 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:35 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:32 am
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:58 am Pete Williams saying that 25th Amendment was not intended to be punitive, but for reasons of incapacitation (health). Remains to be seen, i guess, if that includes "mental" health. Williams feels the impeachment process would possibly be more appropriate, lacking some sort of concession/backing down by the Con. Chances of him retreating to Florida? About the same as this disaster ever being elected to anything else ever...

..
Unlike when the 25th was written, mental health is now known to be a legit medical concern, covered by healthcare. So it's possible.
But I think it would probably be more likely, easier, and do the republican party better as a whole if they impeached him.
If the Republicans were smart, they would lead the effort. And I'd love to see that voter roll call.
+1
+1
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by cradleandshoot »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:35 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:32 am
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:58 am Pete Williams saying that 25th Amendment was not intended to be punitive, but for reasons of incapacitation (health). Remains to be seen, i guess, if that includes "mental" health. Williams feels the impeachment process would possibly be more appropriate, lacking some sort of concession/backing down by the Con. Chances of him retreating to Florida? About the same as this disaster ever being elected to anything else ever...

..
Unlike when the 25th was written, mental health is now known to be a legit medical concern, covered by healthcare. So it's possible.
But I think it would probably be more likely, easier, and do the republican party better as a whole if they impeached him.
If the Republicans were smart, they would lead the effort. And I'd love to see that voter roll call.
+1
+1
+1 as well
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Matnum PI
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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WaPo

Aides weigh resignations, removal options as Trump rages against perceived betrayals

Image

Jan. 7, 2021 at 9:35 a.m. EST

President Trump was ensconced in the White House residence Wednesday night, raging about perceived betrayals, as an array of top aides weighed resigning and some senior administration officials began conversations about invoking the 25th Amendment — an extraordinary measure that would remove the president before Trump’s term expires on Jan. 20.

A deep, simmering unease coursed through the administration over the president’s refusal to accept his election loss and his role in inciting a mob to storm the Capitol, disrupting the peaceful transfer of power to President-elect Joe Biden. One administration official described Trump’s behavior Wednesday as that of “a total monster,” while another said the situation was “insane” and “beyond the pale.”

Fearful that Trump could take actions resulting in further violence and death if he remains in office even for a few days, senior administration officials were discussing Wednesday night whether the Cabinet might invoke the 25th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to force him out, said a person involved in the conversations.

A former senior administration official briefed on the talks confirmed that preliminary discussions of the 25th Amendment were underway, although this person cautioned that they were informal and that there was no indication of an immediate plan of action. Both of these people, like some others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the matter.

Under the 25th Amendment, the president can be removed from office by the vice president plus a majority of the Cabinet, or by the vice president and a body established by Congress, if they determine he “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.”

Mick Mulvaney, a former member of Trump’s Cabinet as White House chief of staff and director of Office of Management and Budget, announced Thursday morning he had resigned from his post as U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland. He said on CNBC that he had informed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, “I can’t do it. I can’t stay.”

“Those who choose to stay, and I have talked with some of them, are choosing to stay because they’re worried the president might put someone worse in,” Mulvaney said on CBNC’s “Squawk Box.” He added that Trump was “not the same as he was eight months ago.”

Referring to Trump inciting a mob of supporters to occupy the Capitol, Mulvaney said, “We didn’t sign up for what you saw last night. We signed up for making America great again, we signed up for lower taxes and less regulation. The president has a long list of successes that we can be proud of. But all of that went away yesterday.”

A trio of senior White House aides — national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien, deputy national security adviser Matthew Pottinger and deputy chief of staff Chris Liddell — were contemplating resigning, according to three senior administration officials.

Their possible departures, which were first reported by CNN, could trigger a cascade of other resignations from inside the already hollowed-out West Wing.

O’Brien, traveling in Florida, was appalled at the Capitol mob and angry that Trump attacked Pence even while he and lawmakers were under siege, one person familiar with his thinking said Wednesday. O’Brien tweeted support for Pence and did not mention Trump.

“I just spoke with Vice President Pence. He is a genuinely fine and decent man,” O’Brien tweeted from his personal account. “He exhibited courage today as he did at the Capitol on 9/11 as a Congressman. I am proud to serve with him.”

Two of first lady Melania Trump’s top aides abruptly resigned Wednesday night in what one close adviser to the president interpreted as a sign of their disapproval of Wednesday’s events. Stephanie Grisham, a longtime Trump family loyalist who served as White House press secretary and most recently as the first lady’s chief of staff; and Anna Cristina Niceta, the White House social secretary, separately announced their resignations, also first reported by CNN.

In addition, deputy White House press secretary Sarah Matthews announced her resignation, saying she was honored to serve the Trump administration but “deeply disturbed” by the storming of the Capitol.

“People were looking for a reason to stay, and now he’s given them an excuse to go,” a close Trump adviser said of the president.

Aides mortified by their boss’s conduct said they were weighing whether to resign or to stay in office to help ensure the transition to the Biden administration. One official said Trump would have to issue a statement committing to a transfer of power and to prosecuting the rioters to keep some of his top aides on the job for his final 13 days in office.

Trump issued a statement overnight once Biden was certified the winner, the product of considerable discussion with some of his advisers. It read: “Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th. I have always said we would continue our fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it’s only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again.”

There was little communication among the White House staff, other than a message instructing officials to leave early and stay safe. Considerable internal anger was directed toward chief of staff Mark Meadows, according to four aides, both because of what many view as his incompetence in managing the White House and his willingness to prop Trump up while indulging his false election fraud claims.

People who interacted with Trump on Wednesday said they found him in a fragile and volatile state. He spent the afternoon and evening cocooned at the White House and listening only to a small coterie of loyal aides — including Meadows, deputy chief of staff Dan Scavino, personnel director Johnny McEntee and policy adviser Stephen Miller. Many of his top confidants — Meadows, son-in-law Jared Kushner and first lady Melania Trump, among others — were publicly silent.

“He’s got a bunker mentality now, he really does,” the close adviser said.

As rioters broke through police barricades and occupied the Capitol, paralyzing the business of Congress, aides said Trump resisted entreaties from some of his advisers to condemn the marauders and refused to be reasoned with.

“He kept saying: ‘The vast majority of them are peaceful. What about the riots this summer? What about the other side? No one cared when they were rioting. My people are peaceful. My people aren’t thugs,’ ” an administration official said. “He didn’t want to condemn his people.”

“He was a total monster today,” this official added, describing the president’s handling of Wednesday’s coup attempt as less defensible than his equivocal response to the deadly white supremacist rally in 2017 in Charlottesville.

Some aides were mortified that Trump was so slow, and resistant, to telling his supporters to vacate the Capitol, and believed he did irreparable damage to his presidency and legacy.

Aides and a range of lawmakers begged Trump to call on his supporters to stop rioting at the Capitol. Some former aides echoed those pleas on Twitter, tagging the president presumably in hopes he might see their messages.

“The best thing @realDonaldTrump could do right now is to address the nation from the Oval Office and condemn the riots. A peaceful transition of power is essential to the country and needs to take place on 1/20,” former White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote.

Alyssa Farah, the recently departed White House communications director, wrote: “Condemn this now, @realDonaldTrump — you are the only one they will listen to. For our country!”

White House aides tried to get Trump to call into Fox News Channel, but he refused. He at first did not want to say anything, but was persuaded to send some tweets. Then they scripted a video message for him to record, which he agreed to distribute on Twitter. But the president ad-libbed by including references to false voter fraud claims that they had asked him not to include, the administration official said. Twitter later locked his account, enraging the president.

“He didn’t want to say anything or do anything to rise to the moment,” the official said. “He’s so driven by this notion that he’s been treated unfairly that he can’t see the bigger picture.”

This official described Trump as so mad at Pence “he couldn’t see straight.” Several White House aides were upset that the president chose to attack Pence when the vice president, secured at an undisclosed location at the Capitol, was in harm’s way.

A former senior administration official briefed on the president’s private conversations said: “The thing he was most upset about and couldn’t get over all day was the Pence betrayal. … All day, it was a theme of, ‘I made this guy, I saved him from a political death, and here he stabbed me in the back.’ ”

Trump’s fury extended to Pence’s chief of staff, Marc Short. The president told aides he wanted to bar Short — who was with the vice president all day at the Capitol — from the White House grounds, according to an official with knowledge of the president’s remarks.

Short has told others he would not care if he was barred.

Another former senior administration official speculated that the day’s events made Pence more popular than Trump. “One man acted like a toddler and the other acted like the second-highest-ranking constitutional official in the nation,” the official said.

John F. Kelly, another former White House chief of staff who has shied away from rebuking Trump over other transgressions, suggested the president’s leadership was wanting.

“Three men made comments today, two of them very helpful and meaningful, and should be remembered,” Kelly said. Senate Majority Leader Mitch “McConnell’s remarks this afternoon, just before the riots, were, I think, words for the ages — and not from a politician, but from a statesman. President-elect Biden’s were presidential and right to the heart of what we have to do to heal ourselves.”

Kelly also seemed to voice regret about Trump’s election.

“We need to look infinitely harder at who we elect to any office in our land — at the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, their flaws, what they have said about women, and minorities, why they are seeking office in the first place, and only then consider the policies they espouse,” Kelly said.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by jhu72 »

Everything is now back to normal. Trump is going to present 3 golfers with the Medal of Freedom. :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Barr has come out and trashed Trump for what happened yesterday. Dollar short, day late. :roll:
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Facebook has banned Trump for two weeks....he just got “Banditoed” or “Rcubed”
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

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Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger is calling for the 25th Amendment to be invoked and for Trump to be removed from office.

Kinzinger tells @MSNBC he hasn't ruled out supporting impeachment.
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Re: 2020 Elections - 25th Amendment Time

Post by seacoaster »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:11 am
seacoaster wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:24 am Perfect. YA joined hip to hip, shoulder to shoulder with Nestor's Daddy:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1347020454603710464

What the heck is wrong with you?
You clearly have a tough time understanding people and actually hearing where they are coming from. You and I have never met and you do not know my heart. You and I are probably much-much closer on issues than you think. Enough.
Oh please. Your heart. Your first instinct is to try to shift blame to the black folks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanTberna ... 0794474498

Sure, “Antifa instigators.”
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