2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[CU88]

I don't like Trump or hold him in high regard, but I think just as little of his opponents & I strongly disagree with many of their policies.

Salty -- honest questions for you:

2. What did you think of Trump's call with Zelensky? The stuff on Hunter was real, is now coming out, & asking for it was no different than receiving the black ledger on Manafort..

It depends on how you interpret "real". You are a zealot who thinks everything must be criminalized.

[Matnum PI]

Warnock. Warnock beats Loeffler in Georgia Senate race. https://nyti.ms/3rZZ6py

https://flip.it/SU.A0N

[RedFromMI]

And it is near certainty that Ossoff will beat Perdue as well. Just need to finish counting the last group of (mostly mail) ballots. Not likely that any of the remaining ballots will allow Perdue to actually get closer - there is a good chance that Ossoff's margin will be large enough to avoid a recount...(not that a recount will overturn a race not even as close as the Biden-Trump presidential contest in GA...)

[jhu72]

To quote JoJo Rabbit - "It's definitely not a good time to be a Nazi".

[Farfromgeneva]

I don't like Trump or hold him in high regard, but I think just as little of his opponents & I strongly disagree with many of their policies.

Salty -- honest questions for you:

1. What do you think of Trump's call with the Ga Secy of State? Unethical? yes Illegal? no Impeachable (putting aside the time constraint of Trump's term about to end)? no Something pols do all the time? yes. hardball politics. normally not taped & leaked. In this case, I don't fault the GA SoS for the leak. It was unclassified & did not impact national security. It was incredibly stupid for Trump, but not surprising. It should damage him politically & haunt him going forward. Makes Trump looks bad, deservedly so.

2. What did you think of Trump's call with Zelensky? hardball diplomacy. It happens all the time. It's just not leaked & criminalized. Congressional pressure was forcing the approval of the aid before the deadline. The stuff on Hunter was real, is now coming out, & asking for it was no different than receiving the black ledger on Manafort..

3. You think what Boxer did in 2005 is pretty much the same thing as what Trump, 12 Senators and 140 House members are doing now?
In principle, yes. they are using the process to go on the record, put down a marker & focus attention on an issue. imho -- it is being hyped into much more than it actually is.

When answering, please reflect the context.

So, for example, on #3 recognize that Kerry conceded on election night while Trump still claims as of tonight that he won GA and the whole election. Or on #1 that Trump has spent 2 months and 60 losing lawsuits claiming he won and was robbed. Or that #2 is a behavior pattern seen often from Trump -- #2 is basically the same shtick as #1 for example.Gore conceded, then took ot back. HRC conceded, the called Trump illegit his entire term & encouraged Biden not to concede, regardless of the results.

You really think it is ordinary, run of the mill "hardball politics" to have the President of the United States calling, with his Chief of Staff and lawyers on the phone, and asking a State election official to find a specific number of votes for him? You are out of your mind, or a closet (pretty well ajar, now) authoritarian.

And it is plainly and clearly impeachable conduct. You need to read up.

It depends on how you interpret "find". You are a zealot who thinks everything must be criminalized.

What do you think he means? Based on my knowledge of the man dating back to his Pre tv real estate years it is hard to see any meaning other than “by hook or crook”. Particularly “in the context” of his other comments such as
“There’s nothing wrong with saying that you’ve recalculated.”

And perhaps we should clarify here if you believe there’s a difference between truth/law of man and artificial codified law? Because it’s easy but obtuse to argue that those words would mean lots of things and believing in the grand scheme of things that his intent was quite clear.

I'll leave the Trump mind reading to you & your incestuous fantasies.

Thanks. Bad faith discussion.

Consistently.

Who cares ? You're beating a dead horse. Don't expect me to join in. Trump is history & damaged goods. He's just digging his hole deeper.
Defile his corpse at your leisure. You don't need my help.

Questioning trump wasn’t the point it was determining your definitions for things and you’ve proven to not even want to be honest or honorable in a discussion here. That’s the bad faith, not as you try to twist it to claim in furthering the discussion about a person. Proven twice in a string.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don't like Trump or hold him in high regard, but I think just as little of his opponents & I strongly disagree with many of their policies.

Salty -- honest questions for you:

2. What did you think of Trump's call with Zelensky? The stuff on Hunter was real, is now coming out, & asking for it was no different than receiving the black ledger on Manafort..

It depends on how you interpret "real". You are a zealot who thinks everything must be criminalized.

Bad faith by your counterparty here.

[Farfromgeneva]

When all the votes are counted, both Warnock and Ossoff will be U.S. Senators.

The defeat of the The Party of Stupid is now complete.

DocBarrister

Banana Republicans still have that failed coup attempt to look forward to tomorrow. Looking forward to hearing defeated senator loeffler object to Georgia’s results in particular.

She’s never been elected to anything. Bought that seat as a fill in. Sprayed money around the local rep politicians which is how she got there

[a fan]

The stuff on Hunter was real, is now coming out, & asking for it was no different than receiving the black ledger on Manafort.

I would give every penny I have to watch Biden follow your advice as to what is ethically cool.

And use the full force of the Federal Government to go after the Trump family:

Are you related to Trump? Oh, great, we have good news for you! The Republican voters think it's sooper extra cool for the President to go after his political enemies. So now we have thousands of Federal investigators going after anyone related to Donald Trump. FBI, IRS, CIA, Postal Service, as well as House and Senate investigations.


And then Biden puts in a phone call that Old Salt thinks "is just business as usual": "HI Vladimir? I need your "evidence" that Trump laundered money. Give me that? And the sanctions go away".

One can dream. Sadly---and Old Salt and his fellow Republicans are counting on this fact-----Biden isn't an unethical POS, and doesn't agree (to put it politely) with Old Salt's four years of excuses for Trump's behavior.

I AM hoping that some the the younger members in Congress ARE vindictive enough to go after Trump's family with Congressional investigations. And to force-feed TrumpNation what they've been cheering on for the last four years. And I'd get to sit back and laugh as TrumpNation whines and complains when someone who doesn't have a R by their name behaves like Mob Boss Trump.

Sigh. In reality? I'm just hoping for an infrastructure bill in the next two years. I'd be thrilled to just have that. I'm not holding my breath.

[Kismet]

Instead a fan - GOP are getting this from Junior at today's rally

Republicans “choose wisely” when voting on whether to accept Biden’s Electoral College win:
“You can be a hero or a zero … We are all watching.”

To Congressional Republicans “we’re coming for you, and we’re gonna have a good time doing it.”

Only the best people. The arsonists are still looking for stuff to burn down.

UPDATE
Rep. Mary Miller (R-IL) at DC rally: “Hitler was right on one thing. He said ‘Whoever has the youth has the future’”

Someone needs to clue her in that Hitler wasn't right about ANYTHING.

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't like Trump or hold him in high regard, but I think just as little of his opponents & I strongly disagree with many of their policies.

Salty -- honest questions for you:

1. What do you think of Trump's call with the Ga Secy of State? Unethical? yes Illegal? no Impeachable (putting aside the time constraint of Trump's term about to end)? no Something pols do all the time? yes. hardball politics. normally not taped & leaked. In this case, I don't fault the GA SoS for the leak. It was unclassified & did not impact national security. It was incredibly stupid for Trump, but not surprising. It should damage him politically & haunt him going forward. Makes Trump looks bad, deservedly so.

2. What did you think of Trump's call with Zelensky? hardball diplomacy. It happens all the time. It's just not leaked & criminalized. Congressional pressure was forcing the approval of the aid before the deadline. The stuff on Hunter was real, is now coming out, & asking for it was no different than receiving the black ledger on Manafort..

3. You think what Boxer did in 2005 is pretty much the same thing as what Trump, 12 Senators and 140 House members are doing now?
In principle, yes. they are using the process to go on the record, put down a marker & focus attention on an issue. imho -- it is being hyped into much more than it actually is.

When answering, please reflect the context.

So, for example, on #3 recognize that Kerry conceded on election night while Trump still claims as of tonight that he won GA and the whole election. Or on #1 that Trump has spent 2 months and 60 losing lawsuits claiming he won and was robbed. Or that #2 is a behavior pattern seen often from Trump -- #2 is basically the same shtick as #1 for example.Gore conceded, then took ot back. HRC conceded, the called Trump illegit his entire term & encouraged Biden not to concede, regardless of the results.

You really think it is ordinary, run of the mill "hardball politics" to have the President of the United States calling, with his Chief of Staff and lawyers on the phone, and asking a State election official to find a specific number of votes for him? You are out of your mind, or a closet (pretty well ajar, now) authoritarian.

And it is plainly and clearly impeachable conduct. You need to read up.

It depends on how you interpret "find". You are a zealot who thinks everything must be criminalized.

What do you think he means? Based on my knowledge of the man dating back to his Pre tv real estate years it is hard to see any meaning other than “by hook or crook”. Particularly “in the context” of his other comments such as
“There’s nothing wrong with saying that you’ve recalculated.”

And perhaps we should clarify here if you believe there’s a difference between truth/law of man and artificial codified law? Because it’s easy but obtuse to argue that those words would mean lots of things and believing in the grand scheme of things that his intent was quite clear.

I'll leave the Trump mind reading to you & your incestuous fantasies.

Thanks. Bad faith discussion.

Consistently.

Who cares ? You're beating a dead horse. Don't expect me to join in. Trump is history & damaged goods. He's just digging his hole deeper.
Defile his corpse at your leisure. You don't need my help.

Sorry, you DID join in...as a Trump defender/apologist. IMO, in "bad faith".

Yup, Trump (and Trumpism, all the lies and disinformation, all of the defenders/apologists/perpetrators/sycophants) need to be figuratively "hung in effigy".

There's no Trumpism "corpse" yet. It's still living and breathing. So it needs to be embarrassed, shamed, and when fully "dead", ultimately buried.

And I say that as a Republican.

[MDlaxfan76]

Without Trump on the ballot in 2018, the GA gov race was 50R/49D.

Yup, nip and tuck...

My hope is that the Dems win these two and can get some important stuff done on election reform, get a strong stimulus package done focused on infrastructure/green led, get some judges through, no big fights on Cabinet, etc.

It's unlikely they'll swing too far as Senators like Manchin will be able to create sufficient friction, plus Joe just isn't a lefty...but if they do swing too far somehow, the voters can have their say in 2 and 4 years.

Looks like the Abrams organization had the impact some of us were predicting, whereas the turmoil caused by Trump only weakened the GOP in Georgia down the stretch. I know that farfromgeneva didn't think we should rush to "deify" Abrams, but it sure looks like all that organizing and discipline paid off on that side of the ledger.

Feels like the Loeffler announcement that she'd vote against acceptance of the Georgia results for President as Trump was due to speak in Georgia cost her relative to Perdue, though it may simply be that Warnock was a stronger candidate relative to Loeffler than Ossoff to Perdue. 33 year old Jewish liberal up against former Governor, Georgia GOP royalty, tougher comparison than soft spoken, but powerfully Christian-minded, black minister versus rich Trumpist woman?

When Ossoff tore up Perdue in the debate and then Perdue refused to show up to the scheduled debate, that was enough for me...and then Perdue refused to debate in the run-off period? Deserved to lose, IMO.

[ggait]

No news on where the outstanding votes are coming from.

Hopefully from voters....

Who cares about those votes.

Whoever gets the lead first wins. We all know that's the rule.

And an attempted coup is no big deal if it fails. I mean an unsuccessful murder or bank robbery isn't a crime, right?

[foreverlax]

No news on where the outstanding votes are coming from.

Hopefully from voters....

Who cares about those votes.

Whoever gets the lead first wins. We all know that's the rule.

And an attempted coup is no big deal if it fails. I mean an unsuccessful murder or bank robbery isn't a crime, right?

He is having his last meal at his Alamo rally....he just called Biden voters stupid. Nice...

[Matnum PI]

Mitt Romney to NBC: "Well, it turns out that telling the voters that the election is rigged is not a great way to turn out your voters." @MSNBC

[Matnum PI]

Kyle Cheney
@kyledcheney
3h
Not a joke: The loudspeakers at the "Overturn the Election" rally are playing the Titanic theme song.

[Matnum PI]

Pence letter: "Our Founders were deeply skeptical of concentrations of power and created a Republic based on separation of powers ... Vesting the Vice President with unilateral authority to decide presidential contests would be entirely antithetical to that design."

[seacoaster]

We are at the GOP's outright lying stage of the Congress's deliberations over the counting of electoral votes. Everything Scalise has said has been debunked by the Courts. Faux pious, toadying liars...today's TOP.

[kramerica.inc]

We are at the GOP's outright lying stage of the Congress's deliberations over the counting of electoral votes. Everything Scalise has said has been debunked by the Courts. Faux pious, toadying liars...today's TOP.

FLASHBACK: When the Media Championed Election Objectors
January 5th, 2021 8:55 AM

You might have heard — the liberal media think GOP objections to tomorrow’s congressional certification of last month’s Electoral College vote are tantamount to a coup d’etat. “This week, we’re going to be able to measure exactly how many Republicans in Congress still believe in democracy,” CNN’s John Avlon hyperbolically proclaimed on Monday’s New Day.

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

The list of futile protests includes 2004, when incumbent President George W. Bush won by more than three million votes. That year, the conspiracy theorists — including some in the news media — zeroed in on Ohio, which Bush won by nearly 120,000 votes. While Bush won by tighter margins in New Mexico and Iowa, Democrats needed to flip Ohio’s 20 electoral votes if they were to change the outcome.

Yet when California Senator Barbara Boxer joined with Ohio Representative Stephanie Tubbs-Jones to object to the certification of Ohio’s electors — as some Republicans pledge to do on Wednesday — the media treated the exercise as a reasonable and valid effort to shine light on claimed “irregularities.”

During daytime coverage on January 6, 2005, CNN anchor Kyra Phillips hoped the “protest” would “bring attention to the problem of our system when it comes to voting here in the United States.”

Later in the afternoon, CNN congressional correspondent Joe Johns pointed out that Democratic Senators felt “ashamed” they hadn’t been more aggressive in quixotically challenging the Bush v. Gore results in 2000: “Four years ago, there were a number of House members, particularly members of the Congressional Black Caucus, who wanted someone on the Senate side to raise the objection so this issue could be debated. And they were not able to find a single senator to do that....All of this, of course, came out in the movie Fahrenheit 9/11, and that is something now some senators suggest they may have been a little bit ashamed of, seeing themselves on the big screen and not doing anything.”

On that evening’s NBC Nightly News, correspondent Chip Reid respectfully outlined the liberal justification: “The objectors cited irregularities in Ohio from alleged intimidation of minority voters to too few voting machines....So many voters were disenfranchised, they said, that the Ohio vote and the result of the presidential election are still in doubt.”

Over on ABC’s World News Tonight, anchor Peter Jennings had no harsh words for those who voted against accepting Ohio’s slate of electors: “The Democrats knew that it was a pretty ceremonial objection, but regarded it as important.”

MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann, who since early November had relentlessly hyped (and hyped, and hyped) the idea that Republican mischief had stolen the election from Democrat John Kerry, scoffed at the idea that the objection was any kind of a threat: “If this was not going to change the outcome, and it took less than three hours, why did both sides treat this like political dynamite?”

Olbermann’s guest, political analyst Craig Crawford, predictably agreed that the objection was really an “opportunity... for a bipartisan look at these problems.”

Crawford charged: “We have got an electoral system out there that doesn’t work. I told you once before, we spend more on prison food in this country than elections.”

Olbermann ended the interview on a weirdly prophetic note: “Yes. Well, we also only have the one Constitution and the reminder that today’s protester is the one who gets protested against 10 years from now, 20 years from now, whenever.”

Actually, it’s 16 years later, and now many of the same Democrats who have always objected to the routine certification of a Republican president’s election are now going to have to spend a few hours listening to Republican objections.

Only this time, the media that were so indulgent of the Democrats’ protests are showing no patience now that the shoe is on the other foot.

[a fan]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

[ggait]

She’s never been elected to anything. Bought that seat as a fill in. Sprayed money around the local rep politicians which is how she got there

I will miss Kelly -- for someone with a net worth of $150 million and whose husband owns the NYSE, she really knew how to rock the plaid shirt and trucker hat combo. A real profile in bad faith craven-ness -- with her planned objection today to GA's electoral votes being the cherry on top. Bye Felicia.

Stuart Stevens, a longtime Republican political consultant and a never-Trumper, put it best and bluntly:

"As someone who in past years has had to listen to major donor Kelly Loeffler going off on how the Republican party was way too conservative, it's hard to express the depth of her nothingness," he tweeted. "She makes Martha McSally look like Margaret Thatcher."