The Nation's Financial Condition

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old salt
Posts: 18829
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by old salt »

holmes435 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 pm
holmes435 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:44 pm Road & Track: Cheap Fun Cars Are Dying Because Young People Can't Afford Them

"It’s no coincidence that the era when American workers had their greatest buying power—1945 to 1974—launched some of the most influential, innovative, and exciting cars in the history of the automobile. The decades since have seen a gradual, slow decline in the market’s appetite for attainable enthusiast cars, and a subsequent unwillingness among automakers to cater to a shrinking customer base. Until economic conditions change, we’re unlikely to gain back what we’ve lost."
Amen brother ! ....the energy crisis didn't help. After my '69 Corvette was stolen, I scratched the itch by owning a a string of 3 Fiat, then Bertone X-1/9's, from 1978 - 2020, for driving to work & lax games @ 33 mpg on unleaded regular.
https://bringatrailer.com/fiat/x19/
My family has a strange coincidence of all owning white Mustangs when we met our future wives. My father and father-in-law had mid to late 60's and I had an '06. Have since gone to "sensible" SUVs with two kiddos riding in the back and the need for some off-road capabilities, but my wife and I both want something faster again. Maybe a 3rd "Sunday driver" in the next year or two. The new Corvettes are gorgeous, but a lot different in heritage than the front-engine RWD versions they built themselves up on. I'm nowhere near a knowledgeable car guy, but I do have that itch...
If you liked your '06 Mustang, starting in 2005, Ford recaptured the retro pony car look & feel.

I had a HS buddy who had one of the first 19641/2 Mustangs. 260 cid V-8 with 3 on the floor. Great from the start. Married a '70 Mustang 289 w/auto. I just sold my 2005 ultra low mileage Legends Lime green Mustang GT. 4.6 L V-8 w/5 spd.

Any 5th gen, post 2005 Mustang GT will scratch that itch. Great V-8 motor. The EFI gets tremendous performance from a 4.6 L V-8 on 87 octane regular. The 5 spd is racy, it's hard to not chirp the tires unless you start out in 2nd gear. The cruise control is great. If you do mostly open road driving, the 5 spd is fun.If you have a lot of stop & go driving, go with the auto, because the 5 spd is racy. The GT's dual exhaust tones are sweet.

Lots of post 2005 Mustang GT's available. The GT's definitely worth it over the V-6.
They went with a 6th gen in 2015 redesign, which finally incorporated an independent rear suspension.
That's worth a look. See if it's much different than your '06.
https://www.carmax.com/car/19611344?adc ... ontent=DSK
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23821
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

New Atlanta business and real estate anecdote

Just signed a lease for a tiny private office with a of co-working business (Industrious, better time than We Work,more sober, but similar model). If unfamiliar they all offer private office rentals similar to Regus (who has been doing this business model for 30+yrs and had to file BK in 2000 so never understood how Silicon Valley was throwing all this dough at this legacy, nakedly exposed asset/liability mismatch model and expecting VC returns. Short answer was SoftBank fubarred the VC world for everyone.

Anyway, 104sq Ft, 2 person office (we’re paying a younger guy on a temp contract for now, new business) and the sticker price is $1625/mo. No w Covid and whatnot, I got a 10% discount for signing 12mo plus 2mo free rental my average rent for the year comes down to around $1220/mo which is still expensive but when I did back of the napkin on ($1600x12)/100(sq Ft) I was coming up with a rate of $192/sq ft!!!!! That’s insane even with free printing,kind bars and a receptionist. Office mgr told me they were 50% occupied (not sure if that’s private offices only or alL capacity including the work sharing spaces and all of that) Which was a roster of around 300 people (2.5 floors) but with many corporate tenants who aren’t letting people work in office they were running around 15% of that on an average day (45-50 people).

This is in a very popular new redevelopment but not a traditional business district. I took 7th floor which is quieter than 8 as main floor and I don’t care about all the party stuff they offer. It’s dead down there.

Food court down on main level with very pricey but excellent foods is hit or miss. Never what it was a year ago but some busy days and some ghost town. Jamestown,who is the owner and developer money and is a global real estate investor with gobs of German pension money, spent a billion dollars and 7-8yrs redeveloping this Asset before it opened mid last decade (between 2014-16, can’t recall).
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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youthathletics
Posts: 15832
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by youthathletics »

old salt wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am
holmes435 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 pm
holmes435 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:44 pm Road & Track: Cheap Fun Cars Are Dying Because Young People Can't Afford Them

"It’s no coincidence that the era when American workers had their greatest buying power—1945 to 1974—launched some of the most influential, innovative, and exciting cars in the history of the automobile. The decades since have seen a gradual, slow decline in the market’s appetite for attainable enthusiast cars, and a subsequent unwillingness among automakers to cater to a shrinking customer base. Until economic conditions change, we’re unlikely to gain back what we’ve lost."
Amen brother ! ....the energy crisis didn't help. After my '69 Corvette was stolen, I scratched the itch by owning a a string of 3 Fiat, then Bertone X-1/9's, from 1978 - 2020, for driving to work & lax games @ 33 mpg on unleaded regular.
https://bringatrailer.com/fiat/x19/
My family has a strange coincidence of all owning white Mustangs when we met our future wives. My father and father-in-law had mid to late 60's and I had an '06. Have since gone to "sensible" SUVs with two kiddos riding in the back and the need for some off-road capabilities, but my wife and I both want something faster again. Maybe a 3rd "Sunday driver" in the next year or two. The new Corvettes are gorgeous, but a lot different in heritage than the front-engine RWD versions they built themselves up on. I'm nowhere near a knowledgeable car guy, but I do have that itch...
If you liked your '06 Mustang, starting in 2005, Ford recaptured the retro pony car look & feel.

I had a HS buddy who had one of the first 19641/2 Mustangs. 260 cid V-8 with 3 on the floor. Great from the start. Married a '70 Mustang 289 w/auto. I just sold my 2005 ultra low mileage Legends Lime green Mustang GT. 4.6 L V-8 w/5 spd.

Any 5th gen, post 2005 Mustang GT will scratch that itch. Great V-8 motor. The EFI gets tremendous performance from a 4.6 L V-8 on 87 octane regular. The 5 spd is racy, it's hard to not chirp the tires unless you start out in 2nd gear. The cruise control is great. If you do mostly open road driving, the 5 spd is fun.If you have a lot of stop & go driving, go with the auto, because the 5 spd is racy. The GT's dual exhaust tones are sweet.

Lots of post 2005 Mustang GT's available. The GT's definitely worth it over the V-6.
They went with a 6th gen in 2015 redesign, which finally incorporated an independent rear suspension.
That's worth a look. See if it's much different than your '06.
https://www.carmax.com/car/19611344?adc ... ontent=DSK
Sorry - Not on topic but just ad to talk shop with the fellaz'

Been a Mustang guy my entire life. Started with a '67 I restored, not a fastback, but it was the rare deluxe with a 289 hi-po, overhead map lights and center console. She was a beauty, but then rust came back with a vengeance and I started having electrical problems ...I just got sick of working on it. At one point, I had a light switch in driver compartment to bypass ignition switch that went straight to the starter solenoid just to start the car.

Moved on and bought a new Foxbody 1988 LX Hatchback 5.0 5-speed, tuned her up nice, lowered her, added 3:55 gears, 65mm throttle body, and some other aftermarket stuff. Got me in a ton of trouble racing all over the place, not to mention poor b/c those Good Year Gatorback VR tires were expensive every 10k miles. Got married and went to go fast boats, then sports sidelined our boating weekends. Now empty nesters, and I am bringing my '88 Fox Body FIve-0 back to life, after sitting for years. Damn she still sounds good with the catalytic convertors gone & flow masters. Needs a paint job (please send cash ;) ) She will still go sideways in 2nd and 3rd gear. Took the wife for a drive a few months back; it was the car of our first date....she was glowing and smiling just like day one. I just can't let the car go, too many memories. Now my oldest son drove it and all he talks about is wanting to drive it when he gets home for break.

....sorry for the interruption, carry on.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by foreverlax »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:49 am
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am
holmes435 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 pm
holmes435 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:44 pm Road & Track: Cheap Fun Cars Are Dying Because Young People Can't Afford Them

"It’s no coincidence that the era when American workers had their greatest buying power—1945 to 1974—launched some of the most influential, innovative, and exciting cars in the history of the automobile. The decades since have seen a gradual, slow decline in the market’s appetite for attainable enthusiast cars, and a subsequent unwillingness among automakers to cater to a shrinking customer base. Until economic conditions change, we’re unlikely to gain back what we’ve lost."
Amen brother ! ....the energy crisis didn't help. After my '69 Corvette was stolen, I scratched the itch by owning a a string of 3 Fiat, then Bertone X-1/9's, from 1978 - 2020, for driving to work & lax games @ 33 mpg on unleaded regular.
https://bringatrailer.com/fiat/x19/
My family has a strange coincidence of all owning white Mustangs when we met our future wives. My father and father-in-law had mid to late 60's and I had an '06. Have since gone to "sensible" SUVs with two kiddos riding in the back and the need for some off-road capabilities, but my wife and I both want something faster again. Maybe a 3rd "Sunday driver" in the next year or two. The new Corvettes are gorgeous, but a lot different in heritage than the front-engine RWD versions they built themselves up on. I'm nowhere near a knowledgeable car guy, but I do have that itch...
If you liked your '06 Mustang, starting in 2005, Ford recaptured the retro pony car look & feel.

I had a HS buddy who had one of the first 19641/2 Mustangs. 260 cid V-8 with 3 on the floor. Great from the start. Married a '70 Mustang 289 w/auto. I just sold my 2005 ultra low mileage Legends Lime green Mustang GT. 4.6 L V-8 w/5 spd.

Any 5th gen, post 2005 Mustang GT will scratch that itch. Great V-8 motor. The EFI gets tremendous performance from a 4.6 L V-8 on 87 octane regular. The 5 spd is racy, it's hard to not chirp the tires unless you start out in 2nd gear. The cruise control is great. If you do mostly open road driving, the 5 spd is fun.If you have a lot of stop & go driving, go with the auto, because the 5 spd is racy. The GT's dual exhaust tones are sweet.

Lots of post 2005 Mustang GT's available. The GT's definitely worth it over the V-6.
They went with a 6th gen in 2015 redesign, which finally incorporated an independent rear suspension.
That's worth a look. See if it's much different than your '06.
https://www.carmax.com/car/19611344?adc ... ontent=DSK
Sorry - Not on topic but just ad to talk shop with the fellaz'

Been a Mustang guy my entire life. Started with a '67 I restored, not a fastback, but it was the rare deluxe with a 289 hi-po, overhead map lights and center console. She was a beauty, but then rust came back with a vengeance and I started having electrical problems ...I just got sick of working on it. At one point, I had a light switch in driver compartment to bypass ignition switch that went straight to the starter solenoid just to start the car.

Moved on and bought a new Foxbody 1988 LX Hatchback 5.0 5-speed, tuned her up nice, lowered her, added 3:55 gears, 65mm throttle body, and some other aftermarket stuff. Got me in a ton of trouble racing all over the place, not to mention poor b/c those Good Year Gatorback VR tires were expensive every 10k miles. Got married and went to go fast boats, then sports sidelined our boating weekends. Now empty nesters, and I am bringing my '88 Fox Body FIve-0 back to life, after sitting for years. Damn she still sounds good with the catalytic convertors gone & flow masters. Needs a paint job (please send cash ;) ) She will still go sideways in 2nd and 3rd gear. Took the wife for a drive a few months back; it was the car of our first date....she was glowing and smiling just like day one. I just can't let the car go, too many memories. Now my oldest son drove it and all he talks about is wanting to drive it when he gets home for break.

....sorry for the interruption, carry on.
Put me down for the Mustang as well...love the Camaro and the Vette, but those late 60's Stangs are special.
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 5029
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Kismet »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:59 am
youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:49 am
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am
holmes435 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 pm
holmes435 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:44 pm Road & Track: Cheap Fun Cars Are Dying Because Young People Can't Afford Them

"It’s no coincidence that the era when American workers had their greatest buying power—1945 to 1974—launched some of the most influential, innovative, and exciting cars in the history of the automobile. The decades since have seen a gradual, slow decline in the market’s appetite for attainable enthusiast cars, and a subsequent unwillingness among automakers to cater to a shrinking customer base. Until economic conditions change, we’re unlikely to gain back what we’ve lost."
Amen brother ! ....the energy crisis didn't help. After my '69 Corvette was stolen, I scratched the itch by owning a a string of 3 Fiat, then Bertone X-1/9's, from 1978 - 2020, for driving to work & lax games @ 33 mpg on unleaded regular.
https://bringatrailer.com/fiat/x19/
My family has a strange coincidence of all owning white Mustangs when we met our future wives. My father and father-in-law had mid to late 60's and I had an '06. Have since gone to "sensible" SUVs with two kiddos riding in the back and the need for some off-road capabilities, but my wife and I both want something faster again. Maybe a 3rd "Sunday driver" in the next year or two. The new Corvettes are gorgeous, but a lot different in heritage than the front-engine RWD versions they built themselves up on. I'm nowhere near a knowledgeable car guy, but I do have that itch...
If you liked your '06 Mustang, starting in 2005, Ford recaptured the retro pony car look & feel.

I had a HS buddy who had one of the first 19641/2 Mustangs. 260 cid V-8 with 3 on the floor. Great from the start. Married a '70 Mustang 289 w/auto. I just sold my 2005 ultra low mileage Legends Lime green Mustang GT. 4.6 L V-8 w/5 spd.

Any 5th gen, post 2005 Mustang GT will scratch that itch. Great V-8 motor. The EFI gets tremendous performance from a 4.6 L V-8 on 87 octane regular. The 5 spd is racy, it's hard to not chirp the tires unless you start out in 2nd gear. The cruise control is great. If you do mostly open road driving, the 5 spd is fun.If you have a lot of stop & go driving, go with the auto, because the 5 spd is racy. The GT's dual exhaust tones are sweet.

Lots of post 2005 Mustang GT's available. The GT's definitely worth it over the V-6.
They went with a 6th gen in 2015 redesign, which finally incorporated an independent rear suspension.
That's worth a look. See if it's much different than your '06.
https://www.carmax.com/car/19611344?adc ... ontent=DSK
Sorry - Not on topic but just ad to talk shop with the fellaz'

Been a Mustang guy my entire life. Started with a '67 I restored, not a fastback, but it was the rare deluxe with a 289 hi-po, overhead map lights and center console. She was a beauty, but then rust came back with a vengeance and I started having electrical problems ...I just got sick of working on it. At one point, I had a light switch in driver compartment to bypass ignition switch that went straight to the starter solenoid just to start the car.

Moved on and bought a new Foxbody 1988 LX Hatchback 5.0 5-speed, tuned her up nice, lowered her, added 3:55 gears, 65mm throttle body, and some other aftermarket stuff. Got me in a ton of trouble racing all over the place, not to mention poor b/c those Good Year Gatorback VR tires were expensive every 10k miles. Got married and went to go fast boats, then sports sidelined our boating weekends. Now empty nesters, and I am bringing my '88 Fox Body FIve-0 back to life, after sitting for years. Damn she still sounds good with the catalytic convertors gone & flow masters. Needs a paint job (please send cash ;) ) She will still go sideways in 2nd and 3rd gear. Took the wife for a drive a few months back; it was the car of our first date....she was glowing and smiling just like day one. I just can't let the car go, too many memories. Now my oldest son drove it and all he talks about is wanting to drive it when he gets home for break.

....sorry for the interruption, carry on.
Put me down for the Mustang as well...love the Camaro and the Vette, but those late 60's Stangs are special.
Agreed. My dad had a 1967 Lime Gold 'stang with a black vinyl top, black interior, center console, bucket seats, 289 V8, auto trans and front disc brakes. He had them put wider Firestone tires on it which really enhanced the muscle car look to it - but the coolest thing was the trim package which embedded the directional signals into recesses in the hood so, in addition, to see the blinkers on instrument panel you got a reminder through the windshield. A few years back, I looked for one but they were very pricey (even to buy and restore) and similar stories of how to keep them running like yours.

One of the great American cars of all time - Thx Lee Iaoccca!
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34096
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:59 am
youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:49 am
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am
holmes435 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:23 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:30 pm
holmes435 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:44 pm Road & Track: Cheap Fun Cars Are Dying Because Young People Can't Afford Them

"It’s no coincidence that the era when American workers had their greatest buying power—1945 to 1974—launched some of the most influential, innovative, and exciting cars in the history of the automobile. The decades since have seen a gradual, slow decline in the market’s appetite for attainable enthusiast cars, and a subsequent unwillingness among automakers to cater to a shrinking customer base. Until economic conditions change, we’re unlikely to gain back what we’ve lost."
Amen brother ! ....the energy crisis didn't help. After my '69 Corvette was stolen, I scratched the itch by owning a a string of 3 Fiat, then Bertone X-1/9's, from 1978 - 2020, for driving to work & lax games @ 33 mpg on unleaded regular.
https://bringatrailer.com/fiat/x19/
My family has a strange coincidence of all owning white Mustangs when we met our future wives. My father and father-in-law had mid to late 60's and I had an '06. Have since gone to "sensible" SUVs with two kiddos riding in the back and the need for some off-road capabilities, but my wife and I both want something faster again. Maybe a 3rd "Sunday driver" in the next year or two. The new Corvettes are gorgeous, but a lot different in heritage than the front-engine RWD versions they built themselves up on. I'm nowhere near a knowledgeable car guy, but I do have that itch...
If you liked your '06 Mustang, starting in 2005, Ford recaptured the retro pony car look & feel.

I had a HS buddy who had one of the first 19641/2 Mustangs. 260 cid V-8 with 3 on the floor. Great from the start. Married a '70 Mustang 289 w/auto. I just sold my 2005 ultra low mileage Legends Lime green Mustang GT. 4.6 L V-8 w/5 spd.

Any 5th gen, post 2005 Mustang GT will scratch that itch. Great V-8 motor. The EFI gets tremendous performance from a 4.6 L V-8 on 87 octane regular. The 5 spd is racy, it's hard to not chirp the tires unless you start out in 2nd gear. The cruise control is great. If you do mostly open road driving, the 5 spd is fun.If you have a lot of stop & go driving, go with the auto, because the 5 spd is racy. The GT's dual exhaust tones are sweet.

Lots of post 2005 Mustang GT's available. The GT's definitely worth it over the V-6.
They went with a 6th gen in 2015 redesign, which finally incorporated an independent rear suspension.
That's worth a look. See if it's much different than your '06.
https://www.carmax.com/car/19611344?adc ... ontent=DSK
Sorry - Not on topic but just ad to talk shop with the fellaz'

Been a Mustang guy my entire life. Started with a '67 I restored, not a fastback, but it was the rare deluxe with a 289 hi-po, overhead map lights and center console. She was a beauty, but then rust came back with a vengeance and I started having electrical problems ...I just got sick of working on it. At one point, I had a light switch in driver compartment to bypass ignition switch that went straight to the starter solenoid just to start the car.

Moved on and bought a new Foxbody 1988 LX Hatchback 5.0 5-speed, tuned her up nice, lowered her, added 3:55 gears, 65mm throttle body, and some other aftermarket stuff. Got me in a ton of trouble racing all over the place, not to mention poor b/c those Good Year Gatorback VR tires were expensive every 10k miles. Got married and went to go fast boats, then sports sidelined our boating weekends. Now empty nesters, and I am bringing my '88 Fox Body FIve-0 back to life, after sitting for years. Damn she still sounds good with the catalytic convertors gone & flow masters. Needs a paint job (please send cash ;) ) She will still go sideways in 2nd and 3rd gear. Took the wife for a drive a few months back; it was the car of our first date....she was glowing and smiling just like day one. I just can't let the car go, too many memories. Now my oldest son drove it and all he talks about is wanting to drive it when he gets home for break.

....sorry for the interruption, carry on.
Put me down for the Mustang as well...love the Camaro and the Vette, but those late 60's Stangs are special.
A buddy bought a ‘68 back in the Summer. I am not a car guy but it’s nice.
“I wish you would!”
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by foreverlax »

old salt wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:05 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:04 pm 20 years. Florida has been controlled by Republicans for 20 years. So if you buy your Buffalo Bagels, I shouldn't be able to find heavy regulation in Florida, since the R's have had 20 years to make it the most business friendly State in the country.

You sensing where this is headed? Know how many business owners I know in your home State? If I asked them----and I do all the time---- if Florida has minimal regulations, they'd have to pick themselves off the floor from laughing.

I'm left wondering what it is you do for your company that you don't know this.
I always just assumed that Peter Brown was the guy who wrote the 737 Max flight software.

DocBarrister ;)
Software was not the problem. Minor glitches are not uncommon & are routinely corrected with updates.

The cause of the crashes was Boeing's marketing decision to pressure the FAA to certify the MAX as just another 737 that did not require adequate transition/differences training for pilots during introduction.

Properly trained pilots, familiar with the MCAS, would have averted the 2 crashes.

The single AOA sensor vulnerability could have been corrected via FAA Airworthiness Directive.
Even though you blew your entry point on the stock, you did get this right...

Brazilian carrier Gol is set to become the first airline to fly the Max commercially again since they were grounded.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18829
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by old salt »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:30 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:05 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:04 pm 20 years. Florida has been controlled by Republicans for 20 years. So if you buy your Buffalo Bagels, I shouldn't be able to find heavy regulation in Florida, since the R's have had 20 years to make it the most business friendly State in the country.

You sensing where this is headed? Know how many business owners I know in your home State? If I asked them----and I do all the time---- if Florida has minimal regulations, they'd have to pick themselves off the floor from laughing.

I'm left wondering what it is you do for your company that you don't know this.
I always just assumed that Peter Brown was the guy who wrote the 737 Max flight software.

DocBarrister ;)
Software was not the problem. Minor glitches are not uncommon & are routinely corrected with updates.

The cause of the crashes was Boeing's marketing decision to pressure the FAA to certify the MAX as just another 737 that did not require adequate transition/differences training for pilots during introduction.

Properly trained pilots, familiar with the MCAS, would have averted the 2 crashes.

The single AOA sensor vulnerability could have been corrected via FAA Airworthiness Directive.
Even though you blew your entry point on the stock, you did get this right...

Brazilian carrier Gol is set to become the first airline to fly the Max commercially again since they were grounded.
Ha Ha.That was my first, smaller entry point. My second, larger buy, at a lower price is back above water.
Once the planet is vaccinated, it will be a long term winner.

RyanAir just placed an order for 75 more Max's.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by foreverlax »

old salt wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 pm
foreverlax wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:30 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:05 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:04 pm 20 years. Florida has been controlled by Republicans for 20 years. So if you buy your Buffalo Bagels, I shouldn't be able to find heavy regulation in Florida, since the R's have had 20 years to make it the most business friendly State in the country.

You sensing where this is headed? Know how many business owners I know in your home State? If I asked them----and I do all the time---- if Florida has minimal regulations, they'd have to pick themselves off the floor from laughing.

I'm left wondering what it is you do for your company that you don't know this.
I always just assumed that Peter Brown was the guy who wrote the 737 Max flight software.

DocBarrister ;)
Software was not the problem. Minor glitches are not uncommon & are routinely corrected with updates.

The cause of the crashes was Boeing's marketing decision to pressure the FAA to certify the MAX as just another 737 that did not require adequate transition/differences training for pilots during introduction.

Properly trained pilots, familiar with the MCAS, would have averted the 2 crashes.

The single AOA sensor vulnerability could have been corrected via FAA Airworthiness Directive.
Even though you blew your entry point on the stock, you did get this right...

Brazilian carrier Gol is set to become the first airline to fly the Max commercially again since they were grounded.
Ha Ha.That was my first, smaller entry point. My second, larger buy, at a lower price is back above water.
Once the planet is vaccinated, it will be a long term winner.

RyanAir just placed an order for 75 more Max's.
Any price between $150 and $175 is a game changer to your average. Nice recovery!
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6380
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by kramerica.inc »

Ex NYSE president explains his covid ordeal:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/tom-far ... lainternal
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23821
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Here’s some PE chum for you CU77


WSJ NEWS EXCLUSIVE MARKETS
Risky Loans Secure Private-Equity Payouts Despite Downturn
Companies borrow heavily to send cash to owners, boosting debt levels

Tacala Companies, which owns more than 300 Taco Bell restaurants, borrowed to fund a $120 million dividend this year, according to Moody’s.
PHOTO: BRONTË WITTPENN FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
By Brian Spegele and Laura Cooper
Updated Dec. 17, 2020 2:29 pm ET
SAVE
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TEXT
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Listen to this article9 minutes

00:00 / 09:02
1x

When the economy struggles, businesses typically hunker down and preserve cash by cutting spending and dividends. During the Covid-19 slowdown, companies controlled by private-equity firms have often gone the other way, borrowing heavily to pay big dividends to their owners.

The payouts boost returns for private-equity firms but can load their companies’ balance sheets with heavy debt at a precarious moment. The maneuvers can leave companies in weaker financial shape, while helping private-equity firms lock in gains, often a few years after their initial investments.

The amount of issued debt tied to such payouts, including both loans and bonds, grew to more than $29 billion this year, up more than 25% from 2019, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence’s LCD. Of that, loan volumes have grown well over 40% while bonds have fallen.


Debt-Driven Dividends
Private equity dividend recaps have surged in the pandemic.
Private-equity loan volume this year, change from last year
Source: S&P Global Market Intelligence's LCD.
Note: 2020 data as of Dec. 14
Dividendrecapitalizations
Refinancing
Other M&A
Leveraged buyouts
-20%
0
20
40
The payouts, known as dividend recapitalizations, are striking considering the pandemic’s economic disruption. By comparison, during the last recession, in 2008-09, such activity nearly dried up, the data shows.

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One reason dividends fell so much in the last downturn is lenders grew cautious and wouldn’t lend to companies already considered to be risky. This time, near-zero interest rates and robust government buying of corporate bonds have pushed investors to take more risk to get a decent return.


Private-equity firms ranging from giants such as Blackstone Group Inc. and KKR & Co. to smaller players like Clearlake Capital Group and Leonard Green & Partners have capitalized on the situation.

Wheel Pros LLC, which sells splashy wheels for souped-up sports cars and trucks, spotlights the risks. The Colorado company’s wheels can sell for hundreds of dollars apiece, yet Wheel Pros managed to deliver stronger-than-expected performance when Covid-19 struck, driven in part by the government stimulus efforts and stay-at-home restrictions that made it tougher for people to spend disposable income, according to Moody’s Investors Service.

Normally it can be hard to sell fancy wheels in recessions. Adding to Wheel Pros’ risk is a heavy debt load, which even before the pandemic put its credit in high-risk territory. Yet the company took out more debt this fall, in part to fund what Moody’s said would be a $145 million investor dividend. The ratings firm noted the aggressive financial moves were challenging Wheel Pros’ credit standing, although it has held off downgrading Wheel Pros’ rating.

“Wheel Pros’ demand remains vulnerable in a prolonged economic downturn,” says Moody’s.

A key beneficiary of Wheel Pros’ debt was its owner, Clearlake Capital—a California private-equity firm that says it manages around $25 billion of assets. The debt-funded dividend would help to shield Clearlake from possible losses if Wheel Pros fell into trouble.

Private-equity assets under management
Source: Preqin
Note: 2020 data are through June
.trillion
2010
'15
'20
0
1
2
3
4
$5
Clearlake and Wheel Pros declined to comment.

The aggressive use of debt at companies like Wheel Pros is part of private-equity firms’ playbooks. It is one reason they grew from a niche corner of Wall Street to investing leviathans over the last few decades. Private-equity firms managed more than $4.7 trillion of assets as of June of this year, up from less than $1.5 trillion before the financial crisis. Their investments touch every corner of American life, from rental homes to retailers to hospitals on the front-lines of the pandemic.


If the added debt causes Wheel Pros or other companies to struggle, it could put the private-equity industry under a regulatory spotlight in Washington. President-elect Joe Biden has pledged a tougher line on Wall Street and the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is eager to crack down on private equity.

A key concern among some people who follow the sector is when such debt-funded dividend deals go sour, workers, company suppliers and other stakeholders suffer while investors have already locked in gains. Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren previously introduced legislation that would ban private-equity firms from receiving dividends within the first two years of buying a company.


Many in the industry believe a crackdown is unlikely. “We’re predicting a pretty moderate approach to regulation,” said Joshua Harris, co-founder of Apollo Global Management Inc., in a recent virtual conference.

The loans that funded the recent dividend payments reflect a view by creditors that the economy will likely rebound strongly once Covid-19 is controlled. Until then, the hope is that companies will be able to generate enough cash to avoid defaulting.

Several of the large dividends this year came from technology-focused firms that have generally fared better through the downturn compared with companies in such industries as retail and travel. These include KKR receiving a $560 million dividend in July from debt taken by back-office tech provider Epicor Software Corp. Blackstone similarly took a debt-funded payout from the company that runs the Bumble dating app.

“Dividend recaps make sense when the company has demonstrated the consistent cash flow and financial health to take on more debt,” said Epicor CEO Steve Murphy in a written response to questions.

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Tacala Companies says it owns more than 300 Taco Bell restaurants across the Southeast and in Texas. While drive-through dining helped Tacala escape the fates of many restaurant owners in the pandemic, credit analysts have noted the company has been carrying a heavy debt burden.

Yet as Covid-19 cases rose this fall, Tacala borrowed more to fund a $120 million dividend, according to Moody’s. The company is backed by Altamont Capital Partners of Palo Alto, Calif.



Altamont and Tacala didn’t respond to requests for comment on the decision to do the dividend now.

The U.S. so far hasn’t witnessed the surge of corporate defaults that some economists feared this spring. But specific sectors—most notably retail—have exposed the risks of such large debt-funded dividend payments. J.Crew Group Inc. was one notable retailer whose dividends to private-equity backers contributed to an unsustainable debt load that forced it into bankruptcy after Covid-19 hit.

Some of the most controversial debt-financed dividend payouts in recent years have been by Prospect Medical Holdings Inc., a hospital operator majority-owned by private-equity firm Leonard Green.

Prospect manages 17 hospitals across the U.S., many of which are classified as safety-net facilities that treat poor and vulnerable patients. Over the last decade, Prospect paid its shareholders, the biggest of which is Leonard Green, more than $500 million in dividends from these hospitals, while loading Prospect’s balance sheet with new debt, according to a debt prospectus and Moody’s.

After the company sought to buy two hospitals in Rhode Island in 2013, state officials requested that Prospect confirm it had no plans to pay further dividends to its shareholders after a $100 million dividend it had paid in 2012. Prospect responded that it didn’t, according to correspondence between the state and the company viewed by the Journal.

A few years after receiving clearance to buy the hospitals, Prospect agreed to pay an over $400 million debt-funded dividend to shareholders including Leonard Green.

The private-equity firm is looking to now sell Prospect to members of the hospital’s management, a deal that has so far failed to win approval from Rhode Island, pending a review of Prospect’s activities by the state. The review has been examining the dividends paid to Leonard Green and other financial information, according to a public disclosure.


Former employees say the hospital chain has suffered under Leonard Green. Prospect closed one hospital in Texas late last year, and multiple Democratic members of Congress have said in recent letters to Leonard Green that the dividends had diverted money away from patient care.

Leonard Green has denied this, saying Prospect is well-capitalized for its operations. In response to the letters, the firm says it has worked hard to ease Prospect’s debt load in recent years.

If these payouts become political issues, the trick for policy makers will be figuring out ways to spread private equity’s benefits more equitably without undercutting the industry, said Steven J. Davis, a University of Chicago Booth School of Business professor who has studied the social impacts of private-equity buyouts.

“There are benefits from private equity for society as a whole, and we don’t want to throw that away,” he said, noting the sector’s role in boosting productivity. “You don’t want to kill that goose. You might want to think about how to make the goose behave in a way that’s somewhat more advantageous to society at large.”

Write to Brian Spegele at [email protected] and Laura Cooper at [email protected]
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
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Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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CU77
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by CU77 »

*sigh* you're harshing my mellow FFG!
A key concern among some people who follow the sector is when such debt-funded dividend deals go sour, workers, company suppliers and other stakeholders suffer while investors have already locked in gains. Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren previously introduced legislation that would ban private-equity firms from receiving dividends within the first two years of buying a company.
Way too mild. I have no idea how taking on debt to fund dividends (that cannot be clawed back) is legal. Sounds like pure theft to me.

Should be a permanent ban. Ditto management fees: take them in capital only.

And then tax the capital gains the same as labor. And tax them annually.
seacoaster
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by seacoaster »

Not sure where to put this, but I thought this was a pretty interesting exchange:

https://twitter.com/citizenwillis/statu ... 7157310465
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youthathletics
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by youthathletics »

seacoaster wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:54 am Not sure where to put this, but I thought this was a pretty interesting exchange:

https://twitter.com/citizenwillis/statu ... 7157310465
Certainly proves how out of touch Perdue is.
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Regardless of individual situation he should’ve known the real cost of college has gone up exponentially faster than wage growth.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:14 am
seacoaster wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:54 am Not sure where to put this, but I thought this was a pretty interesting exchange:

https://twitter.com/citizenwillis/statu ... 7157310465
Certainly proves how out of touch Perdue is.
We've been having the same conversation at this forum for well over a decade. The Dr. spelled it out: wages are stagnant, and we are taxed at the LOWEST rate of all 1st world nations. Good luck telling that to a Republican voter. They're CONVINCED it's the other way around.

This is why I keep saying that until what's essentially FoxNation stops consuming media garbage from 1%er millionaires------they're F'ed. They simply don't understand how they've been so royally screwed by now 40+ years of Trickle Down economics. And what REALLY screwed them is when Bill Clinton joined in on the Trickle Down fun.

THIS is why AOC and others are gaining traction. Americans who can add and subtract understand full well what's been happening. And they're tired of it.
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by Farfromgeneva »

CU77 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:22 am *sigh* you're harshing my mellow FFG!
A key concern among some people who follow the sector is when such debt-funded dividend deals go sour, workers, company suppliers and other stakeholders suffer while investors have already locked in gains. Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren previously introduced legislation that would ban private-equity firms from receiving dividends within the first two years of buying a company.
Way too mild. I have no idea how taking on debt to fund dividends (that cannot be clawed back) is legal. Sounds like pure theft to me.

Should be a permanent ban. Ditto management fees: take them in capital only.

And then tax the capital gains the same as labor. And tax them annually.
Cap gains status vs carried interest is where I’m on the same page as you. Where I struggle is in dictating the capital structure of a private enterprise based on one definition of ownership of said business.

Not sure management fees should be considered cap gains under any circumstances.

The only reasonable path, IMO, is to regulate it through the banking system which is insured by a money losing FDIC system. going after direct equity ownership of a private business is a disaster, but there’s no problem with a dividend recap if the borrower ha sufficient cash flows to not default and pay as agreed so it should be up to the creditors to enforce this discipline.

I think I know what you, CU77, want and I think I can't agree on the principal of it intervening too much in the ownership and equity of businesses (I don't even want FDIC, Fannie/Freddie, mortgage interest tax deduction, ag subsidies, etc, how do you think I feel about the Federal Reserve owning corporate bonds?). Consider the alternative, perhaps extreme, but it makes the bigger point:

3rd generation family businesses have a 95% failure rate. That's for a number of reasons, legit, and less so. Private equity creates a ton of liquidity in the market where businesses can know they have an option other than handing it over to the entrenched grandson which frees them to make better long term business decisions. If they knew inheritance of the business was an option they'd often/likely be making more short term oriented decisions to help the family out when gone. It also enables small and mid sized businesses that have become established to leave more equity capital in their businesses and therefor safer from frictions or market/economic seizures such as the one we are in now because they know they can monetize the business and get that capital out without having to regularly draw it out, pay taxes on it and leave the business more exposed to economic conditions with less equity in it. Now I'm less empathetic regarding public to private larger deals such as TXU, HCA, Freescale Semiconductor but for the large balance of private businesses benefit from having private equity as a liquidity option vs. closing at retirement or other community harmful decisions. That's got real value to society.

Now the space I can't stand and see plenty of it is the roll-up of small to middle market businesses, particularly business services but generally, where they'll cobble together two or more business acquisitions, strip out some expense synergies and then turn around and try to do a div recap having already inflated the equity multiples for the business and not wholle clear if the expense cutting went to far, cut into the bond and now affects revenue and/or profitability but were able to dress it up to get lenders to put up 7-8x Senior Debt/EBITDA on a funky "adjusted EBITDA" number after stitchng a couple of acquisitions together and pulling all the equity out such that the only equity on the balance sheet is goodwill and a negative tangible equity number. But still, it's the lenders who are extending the credit.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
CU88
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by CU88 »

Senator Ron Johnson fought for a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich and brushed off deficit concerns. But he just opposed a $1200 stimulus for ordinary Americans, citing (wait for it...)

deficit concerns.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: The Nation's Financial Condition

Post by a fan »

CU88 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:41 pm Senator Ron Johnson fought for a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich and brushed off deficit concerns. But he just opposed a $1200 stimulus for ordinary Americans, citing (wait for it...)

deficit concerns.
Do you think one single member of FoxNation is going to catch on to this game?

Nope. Me neither. Oh well.
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