Johns Hopkins 2021

[DocBarrister]

I think Petro's style can still be successful, at least in the short term. Let's not forget that he was quite successful for a while. Just seems to me that a coach like that eventually wears out his welcome, especially when the losses start to pile up. Kids start tuning him out (while still being afraid of failing) and the culture falls apart. The only exception I can think of to this rule is Bellichick. But I guess if you win enough, people's willingness to buy in lasts a bit longer.

I don’t believe wins and losses have anything to do with why Petro is gone. I do believe that the administration did not believe in HIS approach to building the culture of the men’s lacrosse team.

I don’t know the entire story behind Coach Petro’s parting of ways with Johns Hopkins.

Coaches can change. Coach Brian Kelly at Notre Dame worked hard after the debacle 2016 college football season and made a real effort to become more accessible to his players. Simple things like joining them for breakfast instead of hiding away in his office. He also fired assistants with whom he had worked for two decades.

Notre Dame is now set to make the College Football Playoffs for the second time in three seasons.

If Coach Pietramala does get another head coaching gig, I think he will adopt a very different coaching style. The times have changed. He will need to change, too, if he wants to be a head coach again.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

I think Petro's style can still be successful, at least in the short term. Let's not forget that he was quite successful for a while. Just seems to me that a coach like that eventually wears out his welcome, especially when the losses start to pile up. Kids start tuning him out (while still being afraid of failing) and the culture falls apart. The only exception I can think of to this rule is Bellichick. But I guess if you win enough, people's willingness to buy in lasts a bit longer.

I don’t believe wins and losses have anything to do with why Petro is gone. I do believe that the administration did not believe in HIS approach to building the culture of the men’s lacrosse team.

wins and losses are the only reason petro is not still the coach. or to put a finer point on it, if wins and losses were different, he is still hopkins' coach.

[nyjay]

Well, to be entirely honest, I think it's both culture and W/L. The admin would have tolerated the culture had the W/L mark been better (which is what they were doing for years). But once the W/L became too heavily weighted to L's, Petro was gone. I find it believable that the admin wanted him gone, but if he was winning at levels consistent with the program's history, they wouldn't have been able to get rid of him (alum, etc).

So yeah, both could rightly be considered the proximate cause of the nonrenewal of his contract. But ultimately, there wasn't enough good (Ws) to outweigh the bad.

[jhu06]

Well, to be entirely honest, I think it's both culture and W/L. The admin would have tolerated the culture had the W/L mark been better (which is what they were doing for years). But once the W/L became too heavily weighted to L's, Petro was gone. I find it believable that the admin wanted him gone, but if he was winning at levels consistent with the program's history, they wouldn't have been able to get rid of him (alum, etc).

So yeah, both could rightly be considered the proximate cause of the nonrenewal of his contract. But ultimately, there wasn't enough good (Ws) to outweigh the bad.

-the team stunk for a long time and it was his fault. End of story.

-Katzenmoyer basket weaving u had their game against khaki u cancelled this week because khaki u wasn't healthy for corona so the question is what's the most likely scenario for playing/not playing this spring. Whose decision is it, who is fighting to play, who is against it, what are the ramifications for the program if we don't, what say do program donors have who write the checks have-they're not funding kids to go to school NOT to play, what is likely schedule, what influence does d3 situation have on all of this.

[flalax22]

I think Petro's style can still be successful, at least in the short term. Let's not forget that he was quite successful for a while. Just seems to me that a coach like that eventually wears out his welcome, especially when the losses start to pile up. Kids start tuning him out (while still being afraid of failing) and the culture falls apart. The only exception I can think of to this rule is Bellichick. But I guess if you win enough, people's willingness to buy in lasts a bit longer.

I don’t believe wins and losses have anything to do with why Petro is gone. I do believe that the administration did not believe in HIS approach to building the culture of the men’s lacrosse team.

wins and losses are the only reason petro is not still the coach. or to put a finer point on it, if wins and losses were different, he is still hopkins' coach.

Well if the money families/alumni (who are the ones who care about wins and losses) reportedly wanted him to be kept in place why is he still not employed? You really think Daniels and the gang care about Hopkins losing to Cuse? No it was a decision based on personality, culture and risk management that sealed the staffs fate by all reports I have heard.

[wgdsr]

I think Petro's style can still be successful, at least in the short term. Let's not forget that he was quite successful for a while. Just seems to me that a coach like that eventually wears out his welcome, especially when the losses start to pile up. Kids start tuning him out (while still being afraid of failing) and the culture falls apart. The only exception I can think of to this rule is Bellichick. But I guess if you win enough, people's willingness to buy in lasts a bit longer.

I don’t believe wins and losses have anything to do with why Petro is gone. I do believe that the administration did not believe in HIS approach to building the culture of the men’s lacrosse team.

wins and losses are the only reason petro is not still the coach. or to put a finer point on it, if wins and losses were different, he is still hopkins' coach.

Well if the money families/alumni (who are the ones who care about wins and losses) reportedly wanted him to be kept in place why is he still not employed? You really think Daniels and the gang care about Hopkins losing to Cuse? No it was a decision based on personality, culture and risk management that sealed the staffs fate by all reports I have heard.

so if they had gone 12-3 for 3 years straight with a champ and a final four they'd be fired. that's what you're saying?

[jhu06]

https://towsontigers.com/news/2020/9/10 ... pkins.aspx

not sure if anyone posted this. Obviously sucks that we lost the game, but the jerseys and the writeup are great. I can't remember any games like that or unc 2 springs ago when I was there where the players were caked in mud. Towson's always shown a ton of respect in their coverage of our matchups. too bad the games are so early in the year now.

[flalax22]

I think Petro's style can still be successful, at least in the short term. Let's not forget that he was quite successful for a while. Just seems to me that a coach like that eventually wears out his welcome, especially when the losses start to pile up. Kids start tuning him out (while still being afraid of failing) and the culture falls apart. The only exception I can think of to this rule is Bellichick. But I guess if you win enough, people's willingness to buy in lasts a bit longer.

I don’t believe wins and losses have anything to do with why Petro is gone. I do believe that the administration did not believe in HIS approach to building the culture of the men’s lacrosse team.

wins and losses are the only reason petro is not still the coach. or to put a finer point on it, if wins and losses were different, he is still hopkins' coach.

Well if the money families/alumni (who are the ones who care about wins and losses) reportedly wanted him to be kept in place why is he still not employed? You really think Daniels and the gang care about Hopkins losing to Cuse? No it was a decision based on personality, culture and risk management that sealed the staffs fate by all reports I have heard.

so if they had gone 12-3 for 3 years straight with a champ and a final four they'd be fired. that's what you're saying?

Well a very recent B1G Championship didn’t garner an extension going into the final year of the contract. I wonder why that is.

[44WeWantMore]

Maybe because when we say "Championship", we don't mean "B1G Championship".

OK, that might sound like the whining of a middle-aged alumnus who refuses to acknowledge that the landscape has changed.

But (and I can only infer based on what I read here), if it were true that he was on double-secret probation, it would take more than a season-saving B1G tournament run to persuade deep-pocketed alumni to go to the mat for him.

[51percentcorn]

While virtually no one else on the planet would care I admit I would be interested in the interplay between Petro/Daniels/Baker/Shanahan and influential alumni over the past few seasons as well as the history of the Petro era from an insider perspective. I think without that direct knowledge this is all speculation. I find it a fascinatng study in that the first third of his tenure was so successful - 8 quarterfinal appearances, 6 semifinal appearances, 4 Title game appearances and 2 Titles in his first 8 years and then the next 11 and a half were so fraught with issues (1 semifinal appearance/the 3 worst losses in Hopkins history in the play-offs/ first losing season in 40 years/tournament streak broken). Throw in the '13 debacle and the difference is startling. I have way more questions than answers or even real opinions but I have the following thoughts:
- Agree with wg... if the success on the field had continued or resurrected over the last few years Petro would still be the coach
- Did his coaching style play a role in the downfall as it were? Why would players from '01-08 put up with the SOB and enjoy success but after that it becomes a real issue? I do personally know some players from both sides of the tenure - they all went to Hopkins with eyes wide open and while maybe some things about Petro surprised them they all knew what type of coach he was.
- I think player development was a real issue - statistical improvement was borne out of opportunity not necessarily development. Even the great Ryan Brown was reallythe same player as a sophomore that he was as a junior or senior (though senior year was affected by the suspension of Tinney and the knee injuries) basically Brown was a 31% shooter who was going to contribute 15 assists pick up 25 ground balls and turn the ball over around 16 times - the number of goals he scored then depended pretty much on how many shots he took - you shoot 182 times in 18 games you better score 61 - Brown took over 430 shots in the 3 years he played attack. To be crystal clear - I am agreeing he was a great Hopkins player and Hopkins would have been in a real world of hurt if he had not been around BUT I think he was pretty much the same great player as a sophomore. If Benn had not been around in '14 to take 100+ shots Brown would have have taken 150+ and scored 50+ and therefore you would have had virtually zero statistical difference between '14 and '15. Benn is another one - I believe his shooting percentage decreased every year from sophomore to senior year and he handed out 11 assists in those 3 years of starting every game at attack. Too many examples of this in the latter half of the "era"
- I know I whack this dead horse all the time but why the laser focus on filling up the recruiting class with the youngest politically acceptable players as possible? There had to be a strategy - a reason - but it ultimately proved to be extremely flawed. I would need alot more detail to be convinced that alternatives were worse. As I have said before - this helped create the nightmare of 55+ roster size. I get the idea that if you can identify a Schreiber, Rambo etc - 1 or 2 guys a class - then you have to recruit them if everyone else is BUT you do not need to go 15-18 deep as soon as you can.
- Petro did appear to be searching for something when the program began to struggle - especially compared to the aforementioned first 8 seasons - we're going to be Navy Seal tough and run out to BWI airport or whatever - we're going to use every coach/Bellichick mantra in the book "Just Do Your Job" - we're going to take Thursdays off - he had several deeply personal issues over those last few years - a divorce/a tragedy within his program etc. maybe be became subconsciously distracted

Oh well - best of luck to Petro - he gave the program all he had and deserves nothing but apprecation from the fans. Given that I believe most of his players graduated from a school not designed to cater to athletes - that is probably the most important yardstick and it seems he did a very good job in that regard.

[flalax22]

Maybe because when we say "Championship", we don't mean "B1G Championship".

OK, that might sound like the whining of a middle-aged alumnus who refuses to acknowledge that the landscape has changed.

But (and I can only infer based on what I read here), if it were true that he was on double-secret probation, it would take more than a season-saving B1G tournament run to persuade deep-pocketed alumni to go to the mat for him.

It really doesn’t matter now but that’s the thing, the well heeled alumni DID apparently go to the mat for him. I don’t know if it’s the MB money or not but I don’t believe the admin cares about or needs lacrosse alumni $$$

[jhu06]

-the school dropping alumni preference in admissions, getting rid of first semester covered grades, going need blind-all moves towards a more "meritocratic school" (which is complete b-s because they still like all top colleges do most of their student recruiting with the 1percent in america and the foreign students they bring in are even wealthier) and then you have a lacrosse coach recruiting 8th graders.

-In fairness to petro NBA scouts start following the careers of 7th graders and regularly admit such things as do shoe companies etc and I'm sure w/olympic athletes a similar thing exists. Would be fascinating to hear Mike Pellegrino next summer do an alumni zoom talking about his career as a Patriot coach working for bb+playing for Petro. would be popular.

-I text w/espn commenters and they tell me how much they hate this forum and I tell them if lacrosse media did more coverage there would be less asinine speculation.

-most of you are probably burned out on petro like a parent hearing a child talk about his ex and I've wondered when the focus will shift ahead and my guess is whenever a new season is on the schedule. where I think it's relevant to this season is what the issues he had w/the admin in support he wasn't getting and how hard they are going to go to the mat to see us play this spring+that milliman has whatever admissions and other support he needs to restore us to championship status. here is an article-a bit old on how duke athletics approaches admissions. I don't know or care whether duke is a better school than we are, but the numbers speak for themselves and I hope we're not losing kids because some punk in admissions thinks that having a top 200 middie instead of a top 5 middie because the top 5 middies sat scores are 300 pts lower.
https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/ ... ons/246254
"And in case you're interested in a team-by-team breakdown, the eight men's baseball team recruits averaged 1,206 that year, while 22 football players averaged 1,063 and the five men's basketball players came in last at 997."

[flalax22]

Relating to the season, Baltimore just introduced lock down measures that include closing all restaurants for indoor and outdoor dining. This is not going in the right direction for getting players on campus in January.

[Tdemling6]

Nicholas Lane commits to Johns Hopkins

https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/12/09/m ... s-hopkins/

[primitiveskills]

Maybe we can start a contest on this board for the new university name?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ed-people/

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Maybe we can start a contest on this board for the new university name?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ed-people/

WOMBAT University !!!

[jhu06]

Nicholas Lane commits to Johns Hopkins

https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/12/09/m ... s-hopkins/

-Jameson played with another midwestern faceoff man named lou braun who was pretty good.
-took a class in gilman w/the wilson desk, hope that isn't turned into firewood.

[DocBarrister]

Well, to be entirely honest, I think it's both culture and W/L. The admin would have tolerated the culture had the W/L mark been better (which is what they were doing for years). But once the W/L became too heavily weighted to L's, Petro was gone. I find it believable that the admin wanted him gone, but if he was winning at levels consistent with the program's history, they wouldn't have been able to get rid of him (alum, etc).

So yeah, both could rightly be considered the proximate cause of the nonrenewal of his contract. But ultimately, there wasn't enough good (Ws) to outweigh the bad.

-the team stunk for a long time and it was his fault. End of story.

-Katzenmoyer basket weaving u had their game against khaki u cancelled this week because khaki u wasn't healthy for corona so the question is what's the most likely scenario for playing/not playing this spring. Whose decision is it, who is fighting to play, who is against it, what are the ramifications for the program if we don't, what say do program donors have who write the checks have-they're not funding kids to go to school NOT to play, what is likely schedule, what influence does d3 situation have on all of this.

Coach Pietramala’s numbers:

19 full seasons
18 NCAA tournament appearances
7 Final Fours
4 National Championship games
2 National Championships
0 Major Scandals

At nearly all programs, those numbers would result in a statue being raised on campus (and that may still happen someday for Petro).

Bottom line, Coach Pietramala is one of the greatest lacrosse players and one of the greatest lacrosse coaches in the history of the sport.

Let’s first give the guy his due.

As for why he was eventually shown the door ... I think his situation was a bit like Tom Landry’s with the Dallas Cowboys. Landry had great success earlier in his coaching stint with the Cowboys. He employed innovative defensive formations and popularized (albeit, did not invent) the shotgun formation in the 1970s. But time and other teams caught up with him and he just didn’t adapt enough to the changing times. I think Petro might still be coaching Hopkins had he adapted his coaching style to more “genteel” contemporary standards, and if he had hired a true defensive coordinator to update his defense. He failed to do both.

By the way, a statue of Landry stands outside of AT&T (Cowboys) Stadium. We may see one for Petro at Homewood Field someday ....

DocBarrister

[flalax22]

Maybe we can start a contest on this board for the new university name?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ed-people/

WOMBAT University !!!

With advanced degrees available in Felinology

[Cooter]

Maybe we can start a contest on this board for the new university name?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ed-people/

Josiahs Hensons University would allow them to keep the JHU.

Charm City University would sound prestigious.