"The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community

[ABV 8.3%]

All I am saying, is yes, he plead guilty.....but that also does not mean what he plead guilty of doing, is factually accurate.

Flynn thought it was factually accurate. He so testified under oath twice in front of a federal judge. He signed one or more documents under oath so stating.

T**** thought it was factually accurate. That’s why he fired him for lying. Pence thought it was factually accurate.

Mueller thought it was factually accurate. The prosecutors thought it was factually accurate. The judge thought it was factually accurate.

Even Bill Barr in his motion to dismiss did not dispute that it was factually accurate.

We have the tapes of Flynn’s calls with Kislyak. We know what Flynn said to him. We have the notes of the FBI agents who interviewed him. Their account has not been disputed by Flynn or anyone else.

Who thinks it isn’t factually accurate and what is their evidence?

Must be some real bad attorneys and judges out there if they couldn’t lock someone up so guilty. Why, then, IYO was it not such a slam dunk case if everyone believes his plea? You guys are so certain and yet, prior to pardon, it was still be argued. Not to mention, POTUS just pardoned him.

EDIT: the quote from NPR, is where I am coming from in my earlier comments, unfortunately, this small back and forth w/njbill does not cover the premise of the original conversation.

Attorney General William Barr was clear in an interview with CBS News on Thursday evening: "People sometimes plead to things that turn out not to be crimes, and the Department of Justice is not persuaded that this was material to any legitimate counterintelligence investigation. So it was not a crime."

Part of the delay was due to the fact that Flynn elected not to proceed to sentencing when he first came up before Judge Sullivan. Then Sid started filing motion after motion. Then Bill Barr filed his motion to dismiss. Then Sid appealed before Sullivan had even ruled. And now Flynn has been pardoned. So the delays are almost entirely due to Sid and Barr.

Yes, Barr claims there was no crime. Importantly, though, to our discussion, he did not say there was no crime because Flynn did not lie. He says there was no crime because Flynn’s lie was not material (in his view).

Thank you.

In bold of your reply, which means what?

As Flynn said, and Barr alluded, the guilty plea was A calculated decision based on the circumstances he was presented at the time, coupled with the financial ramifications of a drawn out legal battle with the feds, that will certainly impact family.

It is clearly a quagmire.

Have zero empathy for Flynn, or ANY long time officer who wants to play politics. Collect your retirement pay and go coach some youth lacrosse.
Why is it why never hear of Coast Guard guys getting into trouble by pretending to take part in a Model UN project like some skullNbones loser, FRAT guy.

[seacoaster]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

[ABV 8.3%]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

[seacoaster]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

[ABV 8.3%]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

[seacoaster]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

[ABV 8.3%]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

Projecting much? I am not the one posting negative comments, over and over and over.

Smells like you are going to act just like him (Trump) and blame him (Trump) for the next administrations woes.

How is New Hampshire going to handle the vaxx distribution? The Governors family owned, controlled, methadone clinics?

[seacoaster]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

Projecting much? I am not the one posting negative comments, over and over and over.

Smells like you are going to act just like him (Trump) and blame him (Trump) for the next administrations woes.

How is New Hampshire going to handle the vaxx distribution? The Governors family owned, controlled, methadone clinics?

Yes.

[ABV 8.3%]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

Projecting much? I am not the one posting negative comments, over and over and over.

Smells like you are going to act just like him (Trump) and blame him (Trump) for the next administrations woes.

How is New Hampshire going to handle the vaxx distribution? The Governors family owned, controlled, methadone clinics?

Yes.

yeah, twitter types LOVE details.

thank goodness I have covid.......I won't be getting the vaxx.

[seacoaster]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

Projecting much? I am not the one posting negative comments, over and over and over.

Smells like you are going to act just like him (Trump) and blame him (Trump) for the next administrations woes.

How is New Hampshire going to handle the vaxx distribution? The Governors family owned, controlled, methadone clinics?

Yes.

yeah, twitter types LOVE details.

thank goodness I have covid.......I won't be getting the vaxx.

I am never really sure what you and your noms de guerre are trying to say. I get that you "don't like twitter." I disagree to this extent: when I limit my access to twitter pages to writers and journalists that I trust, I can be made aware of a lot of content that I might not otherwise see or notice. I don't, for example, have television/cable TV in our home. So I don't watch MSNBC, FNC, CNN, etc., with any kind of regularity; I get what I see from other people, and some of that is made available on twitter.

Rupar's twitter page is a good example: he curates the excesses of the right and its media servants, and the reactions of the media to this. I am interested, and this is a good stop on an otherwise bewildering tour of the internet. And in any event, I am just posting stuff I think is interesting; if you disagree, change the channel. I'm not force-feeding anything to anyone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here's America's hero on television with the loud lady praising Sydney Powell, who he says is the lawyer for the American people:

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1335416880148828160

He ends the interview trying to push a line of Flynn hats. Lying, sedition and some commerce. Nice.

Hats? Didn't hear it...what part of the timeline did he mention hats? more lies?

You seem restless:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1335416107730169856

Ummmm, no, that would be YOU and your incomplete posts. But, thank you. I don't watch fox, do you? why twatt this garbage?

Only the best, right? Did this clown (Flynn) get hired by Obama? so confused

You seem upset. Maybe a walk?

Projecting much? I am not the one posting negative comments, over and over and over.

Smells like you are going to act just like him (Trump) and blame him (Trump) for the next administrations woes.

How is New Hampshire going to handle the vaxx distribution? The Governors family owned, controlled, methadone clinics?

Yes.

yeah, twitter types LOVE details.

thank goodness I have covid.......I won't be getting the vaxx.

How many people do you think you infected?

[ABV 8.3%]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

[runrussellrun]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

you have covid? Good.....I hope you die.

Man, that felt good to write. Perhaps I can finally fit in with this crowd. Yes, fattylax, die. And soon. you won't be missed.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

[ABV 8.3%]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

watching a show on late nite local cable, great guest from Harvard Med school.......very clear we need to STOP with the v19 shaming as not productive. kind of like you claiming I love tRump.

Guess why I went to the ACLU fundraiser in 2017.......to support Trump

[ABV 8.3%]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

why can't you pass it on to anyone? Do you never leave the house?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

why can't you pass it on to anyone? Do you never leave the house?

First of all, let me say I hope you are ok. Secondly where did I say that if I have COVID, I can’t pass it on to anyone?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

watching a show on late nite local cable, great guest from Harvard Med school.......very clear we need to STOP with the v19 shaming as not productive. kind of like you claiming I love tRump.

Guess why I went to the ACLU fundraiser in 2017.......to support Trump

We need to stop making fun of the seriousness of the virus....you know....fear porn and all.... I don’t know what you did in 2017.....I can only go by what I see here....you choose to defend and deflect....I recall you suggesting people are jealous to not be able to live Trump’s lavish lifestyle....your kind of partier...who wouldn’t want to hang around a guy like Trump? You remember? I do.

[ABV 8.3%]

Typical v19 SHAMING.......

........didn't you claim that you gave it to your mother in law?

No. My mother in law us fine. I was afraid my son may have passed it to her...Turned out to be fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope I don’t get it and then pass it on to her. She has been healthy and independent. Would hate to see her go because of Covid-19 but as you say, anyone over 65 or thereabouts has lived enough. Maybe you just got in under the bar?

why can't you pass it on to anyone? Do you never leave the house?

First of all, let me say I hope you are ok. Secondly where did I say that if I have COVID, I can’t pass it on to anyone?

why you thinking it was your son, and not you? Are you like mdlax, and never leave the house?

[old salt]

Flynn co-operated for nearly a year before he agreed to the plea deal. His co-operation was so complete & helpful, the Mueller prosecutors recommended a sentence of only probation. Since Flynn was guilty of nothing more than being misleading in an interview that should never have taken place, Flynn should not have been charged with anything. The Mueller prosecutors were desperate to notch convictions for anything, to justify their existence.

Based on the bragging of Comey & McCabe & Priestap's notes, it's obvious the interview was conducted to entrap Flynn into lying. They had the transcript of the call. If they were really seeking information or clarification, they would have shown Flynn the transcript & then asked their questions.

As Acting AG, on her first visit to the WH, Yates should have taken the transcript & shown it to McGhan, then demanded to show it to Pence & Trump.
Since the transcript was from a FBI wiretap, Yates also needed to answer for the felonious leak of the transcript which was DoJ work product.

It was handled the way it was in order to entrap Flynn, get him fired (per Priestap's note) & make the incoming Trump Admin look bad for reaching out to Putin so he would not overreact to Obama's parting shot at Putin, which Obama took to box in Trump & sabotage any prospect of improved relations with Russia by the incoming Trump Admin. It was an abuse of both our surveillance & law enforcement capabilities for political purposes.

You never give up.

Flynn lied to the FBI investigators, which is a crime. It was an open and shut case. It was mind numbingly dumb on the part of Flynn to do so. T**** fired him for lying. T**** thought he lied. Everybody on the planet knew he lied, including the person in the best position to know, Flynn.

The purpose of the interview was to find out whether Flynn was working with the Russians off the books. His (illegal) requests to the Russians were contrary to US policy. Contrary to American interests under any possible scenario. The Russians had just tried to interfere with the election. Obama had punished them for that, as any patriotic president would do.

Why is Flynn telling the Russians one thing and the administration something completely different? It was a legitimate inquiry to find out whether Flynn was a Russian operative. I’m sure the FBI expected Flynn to admit his conversations with Kislyak and explain that T**** wasn’t yet ready to bring Pence into the discussion, which is why T**** had Flynn lie to Pence. When Flynn lied to the FBI, that reasonably raised suspicions, as it would with any seasoned investigator.

Those notes were just reflective of brainstorming of possible approaches. Nothing more. Regardless, they don’t excuse Flynn’s lying. Nothing does.

Yates wanted to involve McGahn, but Comey did an end run around her. Whether or not that was proper is for the historians to debate. Even if it wasn’t (no law or rule was broken), that still doesn’t excuse Flynn’s lying. Again, nothing does.

What did Yates have to do with the leak? I’ve read nothing that suggests she was involved.

We disagree about this, but I have no problems with the leak because it informed the American public that the incoming national security advisor was having an improper or illegal phone conversation with the Russian ambassador and was working contrary to American interests.

Obama did the right thing in sanctioning Russia. He didn’t do it to box in T****, but rather to stand up for American interests.

To circle back to the beginning, if Flynn didn’t think he lied, then he shouldn’t have plead guilty (twice). He should have gone to trial and proved his innocence to a jury of his peers. If he had done so, he would’ve been acquitted and walked away a free man. And, he would’ve had his red badge of courage to parade before the frothy right. The big man who stared down Bob Mueller.

It's your assertion that Flynn's contacts with Kislyak were illegal. If that's the case, why didn't Mueller charge him with that "illegality" ? Mueller was looking for every indictment & plea he could get to run up the score. Even he wasn't willing to use the Logan Act to prosecute normal & appropriate communications between an incoming admin official & a foreign diplomat.

If the FBI had grounds to suspect that Flynn was working with the Russians off the books (whatever that means) they should have sought the warrants necessary to conduct a legit counter-intel investigation. We don't know that they had not under Crossfire Razor. If it was a good faith investigation, they would have shown Flynn (& McGahn) the transcript & asked Flynn to account for his actions. Either way, an interview would have alerted Flynn they were on his trail. Once they learned that their suspicions about Flynn & the Russians lead to nothing & he co-operated with Mueller's investigators fully, there was no reason to charge him on their entrapment.

What did all the suspicions about Flynn (& the extraordinary measures they rationalized) yield, after 18 mos of spying & investigation ? Nothing but a fabricated entrapment charge. Partisan lawyers can criminalize anything. They did in Flynn's case.