All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

We already have scary numbers... since April. With a disease we know how to control, but with a good chunk of the global population that doesn't care or doesn't trust or doesn't like what they're being told.

Naahh. Folks at UW got it wrong and what’s 280 thousand dead Americans.... we should go free range.... Americans deserve personal irresponsibility!

A look back: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/co ... -response/

[wgdsr]

mdlax, he is being intentionally misleading. has been for a while. has cited ihme more than once and when new numbers come up or when cnn has done bits on it... those are days he brings it up. with inflated info each time. yesterday... cnn, then inflated, incorrect "scary" numbers. personally, i think it's damaging to low-information people and those they affect just like trump has been...BUT nothing i can do about it.

get used to it. wait... you should be.

Better to overestimate than under estimate!

if you say so.

[old salt]

...with a good chunk of the global population that doesn't care or doesn't trust or doesn't like what they're being told.

Be careful. Point out the obvious here & you'll be called a racist xenophobe.

[Typical Lax Dad]

mdlax, he is being intentionally misleading. has been for a while. has cited ihme more than once and when new numbers come up or when cnn has done bits on it... those are days he brings it up. with inflated info each time. yesterday... cnn, then inflated, incorrect "scary" numbers. personally, i think it's damaging to low-information people and those they affect just like trump has been...BUT nothing i can do about it.

get used to it. wait... you should be.

Better to overestimate than under estimate!

if you say so.

Bigly!

[ABV 8.3%]

...because when YOU do it.........the ok flags are waved...

Sounds like there's something going on on this website that you don't think is OK. What's that, ABV?

Dickens, A Christmas Carol.......what message do you take from it?

What is the purpose of changing, if people are still going to treat you as if you haven't?

Time to re-read that one............be thankful, but NOT forgivefull. got it.

I definitely do not got it. What is going on on this forum/website (in this world?) that is not OK? Actually... I take it back. I'll just nod my head and smile politely.

please do.......

meanwhile, to be clear, human already infected with V19 are NOT eligible for the vaccine?

[ABV 8.3%]

A big Ef U to those saying, or even implying, that Covid deaths are no big deal for those already with one foot in the grave.

The one-foot-in-the-grave argument is nonsense. Look at the "excess deaths" statistics. This compares total deaths over a period to a baseline of the past few years. So far in 2020, there have been close to 300,000 excess deaths in the US, regardless of cause.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

EDIT: this was already noted by Md above

fear porn disguised as math

You keep calling any data you read fear porn. WRONG.....I call fear porn for what it IS. I made it very clear WHY is thought THIS data is bad.

The dust is going to settle from this pandemic. And when they do, scientists are going to do a tally.


Given that, I have to ask: what number of dead from Covid is "too high" for you? I answered, you did NOT.

Where is that bar for you? 500K dead? 1 million dead?

What's the number of dead that makes ABV8.3% say to himself "ok, this is a serious pandemic"? Serious problem? I define alcoholism as a serious problem. How many, AFAN

reading comprehension....a.fan.......not ALL data is fear porn. Most of it IS manipulated. tRump bad stuff. (he IS), but, I repeat, anyone that claims that politicians are the ones to keep us safe....the ones to go to for medical advice....IS insanity.

anyone of Bidens potential gang making money from covid? exactly. Remember, Nancy P and the rest of the pretends doth protested very little when is comes to the orgincal CARES act and the financial follow thru. I do have this correct, don't I? Congress ain't doing a gosh darn thing about the "missing" $4 trillion. Not even AOC and Bernie are saying much.

awesomer

so, yeah, when YOU focus on this junk, it IS tough to take it seriously.

[ABV 8.3%]

How about we get school teachers immunized on a high priority.

That would really help get/keep schools open.

They could have moved to find younger teachers in their 20s and 30s, and given older teachers the option of a leave of absence.

They didn't have, and don't have, enough teachers as it is, especially given need to distance the kids...the issue isn't just the teachers, it's the parents and grandparents.

To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools.

the parents/grandparents thing is over. redfield and fauci say so. follow the science, right?

you would find a good portion of parents and kids who stay home. those that go could also do some hybrid. working out the numbers was never the problem.

what's gilman doing?

I was responding to the notion that they didn't need the older teacher cohort to stay involved. They did and will.

Re Gilman
Hybrid, prioritizing the youngest in-person. Rotating older students.
As much as possible in tents outside. Lots of testing.
Not sure what they will do this winter post Xmas break, assuming it gets even more intense in MD before it gets better as I think we would anticipate this spring.

must be nice. perks for the elite.
hope grandma and grampa gilman are ok.

Not sure what the crack about 'perks for elite' means, but if you simply mean that Gilman is expending a lot of resources to get the job done, that's very much correct. We're also raising funds for emergency tuition support for the ~ 50% of families who receive aid, some of whom can't afford the balance in the Covid work environment and for other families suddenly in need of support too.

Or if you mean that Gilman has resources that lots and lots of other schools do not, I absolutely agree. The 'costs' for kids is being felt dramatically disproportionately in the poorest communities, especially public schools.

but a few minutes ago it was grandma and grandpa at risk. but not for the kids at private schools. this virus sure is slick. glad there's no spread there so it's not endangering those poor communities.

i really don't think you have any idea how that all sounds.

Did I say that wasn't a concern at Gilman???

Of course it is.
That's why all the efforts to try to keep the virus spread out of the classrooms. Testing, distancing, outside, etc. Hybrid, rotation.

Is it even more of an issue for poor communities, which have a higher likelihood of multiple-generational households in smaller environments? Of course.

Most families with the average means of Gilman families don't have multi-generational households like mine when my parents lived with us and my wife's older brother lived with us during the years my son was at Gilman. Unusual.

But Gilman also serves less well off families and it's definitely been a serious concern.

mdlax... on the one hand you say/advocate that schools can't be safely done.

on the other hand, you have (it looks like) actively supported your high end private school to do it.

right after attempting to shame someone on here. there is a word for that. sorry, but i have no filter on this subject.

why you even bother is amazing.

[ABV 8.3%]

How about we get school teachers immunized on a high priority.

That would really help get/keep schools open.

They could have moved to find younger teachers in their 20s and 30s, and given older teachers the option of a leave of absence.

They didn't have, and don't have, enough teachers as it is, especially given need to distance the kids...the issue isn't just the teachers, it's the parents and grandparents.

To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools.

the parents/grandparents thing is over. redfield and fauci say so. follow the science, right?

you would find a good portion of parents and kids who stay home. those that go could also do some hybrid. working out the numbers was never the problem.

what's gilman doing?

I was responding to the notion that they didn't need the older teacher cohort to stay involved. They did and will.

Re Gilman
Hybrid, prioritizing the youngest in-person. Rotating older students.
As much as possible in tents outside. Lots of testing.
Not sure what they will do this winter post Xmas break, assuming it gets even more intense in MD before it gets better as I think we would anticipate this spring.

must be nice. perks for the elite.
hope grandma and grampa gilman are ok.

Not sure what the crack about 'perks for elite' means, but if you simply mean that Gilman is expending a lot of resources to get the job done, that's very much correct. We're also raising funds for emergency tuition support for the ~ 50% of families who receive aid, some of whom can't afford the balance in the Covid work environment and for other families suddenly in need of support too.

Or if you mean that Gilman has resources that lots and lots of other schools do not, I absolutely agree. The 'costs' for kids is being felt dramatically disproportionately in the poorest communities, especially public schools.

but a few minutes ago it was grandma and grandpa at risk. but not for the kids at private schools. this virus sure is slick. glad there's no spread there so it's not endangering those poor communities.

i really don't think you have any idea how that all sounds.

Did I say that wasn't a concern at Gilman???

Of course it is.
That's why all the efforts to try to keep the virus spread out of the classrooms. Testing, distancing, outside, etc. Hybrid, rotation.

Is it even more of an issue for poor communities, which have a higher likelihood of multiple-generational households in smaller environments? Of course.

Most families with the average means of Gilman families don't have multi-generational households like mine when my parents lived with us and my wife's older brother lived with us during the years my son was at Gilman. Unusual.

But Gilman also serves less well off families and it's definitely been a serious concern.

mdlax... on the one hand you say/advocate that schools can't be safely done.

on the other hand, you have (it looks like) actively supported your high end private school to do it.

right after attempting to shame someone on here. there is a word for that. sorry, but i have no filter on this subject.

wgdsr, you have this habit of picking fights with me, exaggerating what I've said.

I didn't say schooling can't be done safely. I have said it's hard, it's costly, and if you don't address that reality, you're in for trouble.

Who did I attempt to shame? I missed that. My response to Cooter???
Was I sharp or rude with him??

Or do you mean Joe?

missed this last night, sorry i'm guessing you wanted to hear back from me. above, this is what you said:

They didn't have, and don't have, enough teachers as it is, especially given need to distance the kids...the issue isn't just the teachers, it's the parents and grandparents.

To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools.

what i read from that:
reply to cooter on teachers, logistics.
grandma and grandpa at major risk is just a (the?) major issue with opening schools.
IF you close the bars, THEN you should/could be allowed to open the schools. except my school and orbit, we can do that for us. (i added that last part from subsequent conversation)

do you seriously believe there is anyone here, or more importantly at 10's of 1000's of school districts, that think it would be easy and inexpensive? or do you believe they're just incompetent fools? this was the conversation, and the directly above was your reply. i don't see any possible way i interpreted the last part wrong, but maybe you can clarify how that's way off. or i'm exaggerating. not sure i'll buy it, but i'm open.

so -- what does "To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools." mean?

I believe he said parents and grandparents and actually in many communities, grandparents handle childcare duties, unfortunately....not everyone can hire a nanny....I knew a family that had a nanny for each kid....another had a nanny and he was 18. I always wondered about that “nanny”....

I believe local jurisdictions should be making decisions based on community spread. Was the fall school year in your town carried out like last Spring or was it different?

stay home. online sex IS the same

[ABV 8.3%]

Human beings are social animals, their desire to socialize will not go away even in a Pandemic. By closing restaurants/bars at 10PM what exactly do you think is happening? I can sure as turd promise you that the vast majority don't say, "well, damn its 10PM and Andy Cuomo says its time for me to call it a night" They say, let's take it back to my/your/his/hers house/apartment/backyard/condo/etc and have some more drinks/food/etc. This will continue to happen until the restrictions begin to be gradually eased.

You are hilariously assuming that EVERYONE thinks like you. You DO understand that Cuomo's health officials have numbers that assume how many people will ignore his orders, right? You DO know there's an entire field called "Public Health", right?

You seem to have all the answers. That's great. I have two questions:

1. what's an acceptable number of deaths from Covid? You want fewer controls and restrictions. That's great. But how many deaths are ok with you? What's the number? 300K dead? 400K? 500K?

2. If you were Cuomo, and you were responsible for the lives of not just the 19.7 million people in your State, but also the First Responders and Hospital workers who have deal with the consequences of your decisions? What would you have done? Gimme a rough outline. Not my question, but gonna field it anyway like Kelly Leak........a rough outline for me IS this. I would have never taken money from the old peoples homes. Certainly wouldn't be owning a piece of these death factories called "assisted living". This IS what you are talking about. FORCING old people housing to accept............blah blah blah.

In all seriousness.....I would have given every healthcare worker wads of cash to stay in the bubble, aka stoopid college hoops bubble tournaments. I mean, I was at a bar drinking with the CNA's that take care of Cape Cods finest old people. Maskless. Sounds perfect. OOops, also. ALL business is essential. Close all, or none. simple.

This should be interesting. If you can't answer the two questions? You have NO place to complain.

The floor is yours.....

(crickets chirping)

Didn't Joe, just above, complain about me stating my opinions as if facts?

Noticing the pattern here of late, are ya? Fellow poster complains about you doing xyz-----right before or after they do the exact same thing. But when they do it? It's awesome.

[MDlaxfan76]

mdlax, he is being intentionally misleading. has been for a while. has cited ihme more than once and when new numbers come up or when cnn has done bits on it... those are days he brings it up. with inflated info each time. yesterday... cnn, then inflated, incorrect "scary" numbers. personally, i think it's damaging to low-information people and those they affect just like trump has been...BUT nothing i can do about it.

get used to it. wait... you should be.

When I first read this, I thought the "he" referenced was me, but you mean Joe Biden.

The intentionality is where we apparently differ. You seem certain that Biden has been "intentionally misleading", and I'm far less certain.

On this issue in specific, I would definitely rather our public leaders err to the side of "playing up" the reasons to be concerned and to take action rather than the Trump conscious, admitted choice to "downplay" the reasons to be concerned.

Many of our populace needs to be more concerned, not less. We need the positive actions to slow the spread.

That said, I think you and I would agree that telling the truth, being accurate, admitting error when realized, all build future credibility...and credibility matters in a crisis.

[CU88]

How to manage your virus risk.

The most effective public health messages don’t merely tell people what not to do. They also tell people what they can do with only a small amount of risk.

This sometimes feels counterintuitive, because it gives people permission to take some risks, rather than urging maximum safety all the time. In the long run, though, a more realistic approach is actually the safer one, many experts say.

Human beings are social creatures. Most aren’t going to sit inside their houses for months on end. And pretending otherwise tends to backfire. It leads people to ignore public health advice and take needlessly big risks. “We need different, more nuanced, and more practical messaging about coronavirus safety,” Sarit Golub, a psychology professor at Hunter College, has written.

(Federal officials took a step in this direction this week by shortening the recommended quarantine period after virus exposure.)

Today, I want to give you a three-step guide to risk minimization. It’s based on a Times survey of 700 epidemiologists as well as my conversations with experts and colleagues, like Donald G. McNeil Jr.

1. There is one behavior you should try to eliminate, without exception: Spending time in a confined space (outside your household) where anyone is unmasked.

Don’t eat indoors at a restaurant or friend’s house. Don’t have close, unmasked conversations anywhere, even outdoors. If you must fly, try to not to eat or drink on the plane. If you’re going to work, don’t have lunch in the same room as colleagues. Group lunches have led to outbreaks at hospitals and elsewhere.

2. This next set of behaviors is best to minimize if you can’t avoid it: Spending extended time in indoor spaces, even with universal masking.

Masks aren’t perfect. If you can work out at home rather than at a gym — or do your job or attend religious services remotely — you’re reducing your risk.

3. Now the better news: Several activities are less risky than some people fear.

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”

You can also feel OK about doing many errands. About 90 percent of the epidemiologists in our survey have recently visited a grocery store, a pharmacy or another store. Just wear a mask, stay distant from others and wash your hands afterward.

The big picture: I find it helpful to think about the notion of a personal risk budget. I don’t spend any of my risk budget on supermarket shopping, because grocery delivery works well for my family. But I do take occasional unmasked, distant walks with one or two friends. They help keep me sane as we head into a long, very hard winter.

For more: The survey of epidemiologists — done by Margot Sanger-Katz, Claire Cain Miller and Quoctrung Bui of The Times — has much more, including how they’re thinking about a vaccine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/brie ... mulus.html

[MDlaxfan76]

Makes sense.

[ABV 8.3%]

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”

but, what if the candle gets blown out by the mild breeze from mother nature? Would my exhales get to you, at , say, ten feet?

something about spitting into the wind and NOT messing around with Jim/Slim.

[Typical Lax Dad]

How about we get school teachers immunized on a high priority.

That would really help get/keep schools open.

They could have moved to find younger teachers in their 20s and 30s, and given older teachers the option of a leave of absence.

They didn't have, and don't have, enough teachers as it is, especially given need to distance the kids...the issue isn't just the teachers, it's the parents and grandparents.

To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools.

the parents/grandparents thing is over. redfield and fauci say so. follow the science, right?

you would find a good portion of parents and kids who stay home. those that go could also do some hybrid. working out the numbers was never the problem.

what's gilman doing?

I was responding to the notion that they didn't need the older teacher cohort to stay involved. They did and will.

Re Gilman
Hybrid, prioritizing the youngest in-person. Rotating older students.
As much as possible in tents outside. Lots of testing.
Not sure what they will do this winter post Xmas break, assuming it gets even more intense in MD before it gets better as I think we would anticipate this spring.

must be nice. perks for the elite.
hope grandma and grampa gilman are ok.

Not sure what the crack about 'perks for elite' means, but if you simply mean that Gilman is expending a lot of resources to get the job done, that's very much correct. We're also raising funds for emergency tuition support for the ~ 50% of families who receive aid, some of whom can't afford the balance in the Covid work environment and for other families suddenly in need of support too.

Or if you mean that Gilman has resources that lots and lots of other schools do not, I absolutely agree. The 'costs' for kids is being felt dramatically disproportionately in the poorest communities, especially public schools.

but a few minutes ago it was grandma and grandpa at risk. but not for the kids at private schools. this virus sure is slick. glad there's no spread there so it's not endangering those poor communities.

i really don't think you have any idea how that all sounds.

Did I say that wasn't a concern at Gilman???

Of course it is.
That's why all the efforts to try to keep the virus spread out of the classrooms. Testing, distancing, outside, etc. Hybrid, rotation.

Is it even more of an issue for poor communities, which have a higher likelihood of multiple-generational households in smaller environments? Of course.

Most families with the average means of Gilman families don't have multi-generational households like mine when my parents lived with us and my wife's older brother lived with us during the years my son was at Gilman. Unusual.

But Gilman also serves less well off families and it's definitely been a serious concern.

mdlax... on the one hand you say/advocate that schools can't be safely done.

on the other hand, you have (it looks like) actively supported your high end private school to do it.

right after attempting to shame someone on here. there is a word for that. sorry, but i have no filter on this subject.

wgdsr, you have this habit of picking fights with me, exaggerating what I've said.

I didn't say schooling can't be done safely. I have said it's hard, it's costly, and if you don't address that reality, you're in for trouble.

Who did I attempt to shame? I missed that. My response to Cooter???
Was I sharp or rude with him??

Or do you mean Joe?

missed this last night, sorry i'm guessing you wanted to hear back from me. above, this is what you said:

They didn't have, and don't have, enough teachers as it is, especially given need to distance the kids...the issue isn't just the teachers, it's the parents and grandparents.

To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools.

what i read from that:
reply to cooter on teachers, logistics.
grandma and grandpa at major risk is just a (the?) major issue with opening schools.
IF you close the bars, THEN you should/could be allowed to open the schools. except my school and orbit, we can do that for us. (i added that last part from subsequent conversation)

do you seriously believe there is anyone here, or more importantly at 10's of 1000's of school districts, that think it would be easy and inexpensive? or do you believe they're just incompetent fools? this was the conversation, and the directly above was your reply. i don't see any possible way i interpreted the last part wrong, but maybe you can clarify how that's way off. or i'm exaggerating. not sure i'll buy it, but i'm open.

so -- what does "To be overly simplistic: Close bars, open schools." mean?

I believe he said parents and grandparents and actually in many communities, grandparents handle childcare duties, unfortunately....not everyone can hire a nanny....I knew a family that had a nanny for each kid....another had a nanny and he was 18. I always wondered about that “nanny”....

I believe local jurisdictions should be making decisions based on community spread. Was the fall school year in your town carried out like last Spring or was it different?

stay home. online sex IS the same

My wife teaches. You got the wrong guy sport.

[ABV 8.3%]

what?

[a fan]

WRONG.....I call fear porn for what it IS. I made it very clear WHY is thought THIS data is bad.

Yes. But you forget that ALL causes of death have the same issues. You're convinced that ONLY Covid deaths are counted this way. How many Americans die from heart disease, when the REAL problem is that they're simply old? You ignore this, because you're on a Covid crusade for whatever reason.

Where is that bar for you? 500K dead? 1 million dead?

You still haven't answered. For the same reason all the "Fear Porn" people don't want to answer this question. You know you're going to sound insane. So you refuse to answer the question, and then pull a "look a squirrel" with alcohol.

reading comprehension....a.fan.......not ALL data is fear porn. Most of it IS manipulated.

Right. Only the things YOU don't want to hear is fear porn. That much I have figured out. So you're overjoyed to give me numbers on deaths from causes other than Cancer. Oh THOSE numbers are accurate, and would NEVER be manipulated. But the numbers from Covid are wrong. Because of course they are.

And then when I try and set those numbers aside, and ask you how many dead from Covid is acceptable to you? You won't say.

So you take us around in a circle again. Essentially, as usual, you're telling all of us that we're doing it wrong. But you won't tell us what doing it right looks like. Because you don't know.

[a fan]

. ALL business is essential. Close all, or none. simple

Great. So now you've closed all businesses in the State.

So now pretend you are ABV 8.3, and you're ready for dinner. Where do you get your food?

Congratulations, your first day as Governor, your entire population now has nothing to eat.

[Typical Lax Dad]

what?

Yes. What?

[Typical Lax Dad]

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”

but, what if the candle gets blown out by the mild breeze from mother nature? Would my exhales get to you, at , say, ten feet?

something about spitting into the wind and NOT messing around with Jim/Slim.

What set you off this morning? Duval as the possible AG? That would be a nightmare for him on this board!

When are you getting vaccinated?

[ABV 8.3%]

WRONG.....I call fear porn for what it IS. I made it very clear WHY is thought THIS data is bad.

Yes. But you forget that ALL causes of death have the same issues. You're convinced that ONLY Covid deaths are counted this way. How many Americans die from heart disease, when the REAL problem is that they're simply old? You ignore this, because you're on a Covid crusade for whatever reason.

Where is that bar for you? 500K dead? 1 million dead?

You still haven't answered. For the same reason all the "Fear Porn" people don't want to answer this question. You know you're going to sound insane. So you refuse to answer the question, and then pull a "look a squirrel" with alcohol.

reading comprehension....a.fan.......not ALL data is fear porn. Most of it IS manipulated.

Right. Only the things YOU don't want to hear is fear porn. That much I have figured out. So you're overjoyed to give me numbers on deaths from causes other than Cancer. Oh THOSE numbers are accurate, and would NEVER be manipulated. But the numbers from Covid are wrong. Because of course they are.

And then when I try and set those numbers aside, and ask you how many dead from Covid is acceptable to you? You won't say.

So you take us around in a circle again. Essentially, as usual, you're telling all of us that we're doing it wrong. But you won't tell us what doing it right looks like. Because you don't know.

The fact that you never consider the numbers is the part that is telling. You ignore this. Always. Does Colorado use different ABV measurement, than, say, New York. Or, do they just "assume" the vodka content?

and, once again, you gloss over the payment /reimbursement factor.

trump sending that big white boat to NYC again?

you, without hesitation , spew data numbers. To prove what point?

NO ONE, including you, answers the important questions. LIKE....for instance

If a person has a positive covid test, meaning they are infected, can they get a vaccine?


but, lets have more placing the blame on medical problems on ONE person......almost a thousand pages of it.

I love Cabo........didn't know we could fly to Mexico write now. (you MUST be spending lots and lots of time bashing your mayor, write ?