JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:15 am
old salt wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:07 am
CU77 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:08 amHow about the troop drawdowns o.s.? Yea or nay?
A tentative Yea, ....so long as the Pentagon has a quick response backfill contingency plan available. I don't have access to detailed information to hold an informed opinion. Depending on how it is structured, manned & equipped, a residual force of 2500 can be a significant force with which to sustain a presence, protect our advisers, diplomats & embassies, share intel with our host govts, & call in air strikes or evac flights, if necessary, to prevent a Saigon-like pullout scenario in Afghanistan &/or Iraq.

This is a phased drawdown, not a regional pullout. We still have substantial, mobile combat power staged in the region on the ground, offshore & just over the horizon. We're leaving forces on the ground with our Kurdish allies in Iraq & Syria & with our Arab allies in the region.
It also leaves a basis, & sufficient time, for the incoming Biden admin to backfill as they deem necessary.

Apparently, this is the only way we can end our post 9-11 wars. We're finally acknowledging we've done all we can to transform the societies which attacked us, their nations of origin & the safe havens which spawned them.
The military will always push for as much as we can get to improve our odds.
Members of Congress are influenced by vets, bases & industries in their jurisdictions,
Trump is doing all he can responsibly do to follow through on his campaign promises, leaving Biden the opportunity to implement his strategy.
Did the President do this unilaterally, or did the JCOS and service heads agree? Because it does seem like Trump is simply leaving a very thin force on the ground in a volatile area, creating potential issues and flash points for his successor. Instead of transition, is Trump preparing the ground so that a Biden Administration is hamstrung or at risk (and using the 2500 person force to do it)? And yes, I am paranoid.
IMHO -- it's the best the JCS could get.

Today on FNC, Gen Keane (I paraphrase slightly for coherence) :
...gotta give the President some credit here, He has repeated time & time again his desire to pull ALL our troops out of Afghanistan. In fact, to try to do that before Christmas. But yet, he has made a decision, with his advisors, to keep troops in Afghanistan. Why is that ? We know he wants to pull them out. It's because the conditions are so unfavorable to pulling them all out. We have peace negotiations going on between the Taliban & the govt of Afghanistan, We have no cease fire. Indeed, the Taliban have increased the level of violence 50% against the ASF since the negotiations have begun.
That makes the statement that the Taliban is not serious about maintaining a negotiated peace, If we pull all of our forces out, it undercuts all of the leverage we & the Afghan govt may have to force them into a negotiated settlement.

Also, AQ & IS are both resident in Afghanistan. The Taliban has not demonstrated the capacity or political will to prevent that presence from growing to a sanctuary, presenting another threat like AQ before 9-11. The 4500 we were at is a better number because it was based on the Commander's assessment. The 2500 is based on DC policy makers arbitrary conclusions. I hope we give the Commander in Afghanistan the opportunity to adjust it upward.


My prediction -- 2000 troops now in Afghan will be home by Xmas. After Jan 20, they (or their replacements) will be headed back.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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So Orange Duce's firing of Christopher Krebs will probably back fire on him. Would bet he goes to work as a short term transition consultant for Biden, probably followed with a permanent position once Biden takes office.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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EU acknowledges military shortfalls in meeting NATO commitment.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-d ... 801SR?il=0
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by njbill »

Why does he need to rush? Why can’t he do it, leisurely, any time during his second term?
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by dislaxxic »

Think Jared is involved? You know, our shadow Secretary of State//Defense/Commerce/Energy...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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MCMASTER: Well, it's- it's very corrosive, MARGARET, and what- what concerns me is that the president's kind of playing into the hands of our adversaries. You know, what- what I write about in "Battlegrounds" is how Russia really doesn't care who wins our elections as long as a large number of Americans doubt the legitimacy of the result. And I think what all of us need to do at this point is to demand better from our political leaders, in this case, especially the president, that they don't play into our adversaries hands and- and divide us further and reduce our confidence in our democratic principles and institutions and processes.
MCMASTER: Yes, MARGARET. In fact, what I think President Trump has done is paradoxically doubled down on all the flaws of the Obama administration approach to Afghanistan by conjuring up the enemy we would prefer, instead of the actual enemy that we are facing in Afghanistan. An enemy that- that- who- if they win, if the Taliban establishes control of large parts of- of Afghanistan, give safe haven and support base to terrorist organizations who want to commit mass murder against us on the scale of 9/11, we will be far less safe and- and vulnerable to these groups. And I think what happened is the prioritization of withdrawal over our interests led to us actually empowering the Taliban. I mean, if we were going to leave, just leave, but don't force the Afghan government to release 5,000 of the most heinous people on Earth. Don't- don't- don't make this assumption that there is this bold line between the Taliban and these other terrorist organizations. Hey, we saw today with these rocket attacks in Kabul and- and the images of- of hundreds of young girls fleeing these- these rocket attacks. We saw it with, you know, an attack on a maternity hospital where they gunned down pregnant mothers and- and killed infants. We saw on the attack of- on the American University in- in Afghanistan. I mean, what does power sharing with the Taliban look like? Does that mean every other girl school is bulldozed? Does that mean there are mass executions in the soccer stadium every other Saturday? I think it's- it's abhorrent what we're doing.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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foreverlax wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:13 am
MCMASTER: Well, it's- it's very corrosive, MARGARET, and what- what concerns me is that the president's kind of playing into the hands of our adversaries. You know, what- what I write about in "Battlegrounds" is how Russia really doesn't care who wins our elections as long as a large number of Americans doubt the legitimacy of the result. And I think what all of us need to do at this point is to demand better from our political leaders, in this case, especially the president, that they don't play into our adversaries hands and- and divide us further and reduce our confidence in our democratic principles and institutions and processes.
MCMASTER: Yes, MARGARET. In fact, what I think President Trump has done is paradoxically doubled down on all the flaws of the Obama administration approach to Afghanistan by conjuring up the enemy we would prefer, instead of the actual enemy that we are facing in Afghanistan. An enemy that- that- who- if they win, if the Taliban establishes control of large parts of- of Afghanistan, give safe haven and support base to terrorist organizations who want to commit mass murder against us on the scale of 9/11, we will be far less safe and- and vulnerable to these groups. And I think what happened is the prioritization of withdrawal over our interests led to us actually empowering the Taliban. I mean, if we were going to leave, just leave, but don't force the Afghan government to release 5,000 of the most heinous people on Earth. Don't- don't- don't make this assumption that there is this bold line between the Taliban and these other terrorist organizations. Hey, we saw today with these rocket attacks in Kabul and- and the images of- of hundreds of young girls fleeing these- these rocket attacks. We saw it with, you know, an attack on a maternity hospital where they gunned down pregnant mothers and- and killed infants. We saw on the attack of- on the American University in- in Afghanistan. I mean, what does power sharing with the Taliban look like? Does that mean every other girl school is bulldozed? Does that mean there are mass executions in the soccer stadium every other Saturday? I think it's- it's abhorrent what we're doing.
POTUS elect Biden better have ordered a 55 gallon drum of Advil. He has soooo much stuff coming down on his plate. I bet Lil Kim can't wait to get in on the fun. Time to start launching more missiles towards Japan. The operative words of the day in DC will soon be... stern warnings. :D How is Joe's golf game? He is going to need some time to decompress.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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“I wish you would!”
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:37 am The operative words of the day in DC will soon be... stern warnings.
Which will have exactly the same effect as Trump's love letters.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:37 am
foreverlax wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:13 am
... what I think President Trump has done is paradoxically doubled down on all the flaws of the Obama administration approach to Afghanistan by conjuring up the enemy we would prefer, instead of the actual enemy that we are facing in Afghanistan. An enemy that- that- who- if they win, if the Taliban establishes control of large parts of- of Afghanistan, give safe haven and support base to terrorist organizations who want to commit mass murder against us on the scale of 9/11...
POTUS elect Biden better have ordered a 55 gallon drum of Advil. He has soooo much stuff coming down on his plate. I bet Lil Kim can't wait to get in on the fun. Time to start launching more missiles towards Japan. The operative words of the day in DC will soon be... stern warnings. :D How is Joe's golf game? He is going to need some time to decompress.
We can find excuses to remain in Afghanistan forever & probably will.
If Team Biden concludes that 2500 aren't enough, they can send the 2000 back in & make their own deal with the Taliban.
All options remain available to Biden.
In 2001, after the Taliban refused to turn over AQ, we bombed them out of power with just a few special operators on horseback, calling in air strikes. We retain that capability should they choose to give safe haven to AQ or IS. We just won't stay & nation build next time.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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CU77 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:20 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:37 am The operative words of the day in DC will soon be... stern warnings.
Which will have exactly the same effect as Trump's love letters.
I bet my mom gave me a million stern warnings when I was growing. They never worked on me. Maybe we should just say pretty please?
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... ense-depth

"The world is not getting safer, for the United States or for U.S. interests. Even before the coronavirus pandemic, the 2017 National Defense Strategy described an international environment of increased global disorder, long-term strategic competition, rapid dispersion of technologies, and eroding U.S. military advantages. Protecting the United States requires a strategy of defense in depth—that is, of identifying and dealing with global problems where they occur rather than waiting for threats to reach American shores.

To achieve defense in depth, simply strengthening the U.S. military is not enough; nor the even more urgent task of strengthening U.S. diplomacy and other civilian elements of national power. Enhancing national security must start with the fundamental truth that the United States cannot protect itself or its interests without the help of others. International engagement allows the United States to see and act at a distance, as threats are gathering, rather than waiting for them to assume proportions that ultimately make them much costlier and more dangerous to defeat. Defeating emerging threats in particular puts a premium on having visibility far from the homeland to allow for early warning and rapid adaptation to unanticipated developments.

As capable as the U.S. military is, the United States’ principal adversaries are more constrained by its network of alliances than by its military might. But continued failure to adequately invest in relationships with allies and partners and to cooperate with them to shape the international environment risks the erosion of this network—allowing a long-tended garden to become choked with weeds. Even worse, it could result in the emergence of other, competing networks, presaging an international order from which the United States is excluded, unable to influence outcomes because it is simply not present.

The United States today is undermining the foundations of an international order manifestly advantageous to U.S. interests, reflecting a basic ignorance of the extent to which both robust alliances and international institutions provide vital strategic depth. In practice, “America first” has meant “America alone.” That has damaged the country’s ability to address problems before they reach U.S. territory and has thus compounded the danger emergent threats pose.

THE DANGERS OF AMERICA ALONE
Advocates of the current administration’s approach seem to believe that other countries will have no choice but to accede to the United States’ wishes and cooperate on its terms. This is delusion. Sovereign countries always have choices: to compromise with aggressors, take actions opposed to U.S. interests, opt out of assistance when the United States needs it, or cooperate with one another on activities from which the United States is excluded. Assuming otherwise has the result of emboldening adversaries and encouraging tests of the strength of U.S. commitments.

Not even the United States is strong enough to protect itself on its own. Fundamentally, it needs help to preserve its way of life. Cooperating with like-minded nations to sustain an international order of mutual security and prosperity is a cost-effective way of securing that help. But doing so means resisting the temptation to maximize U.S. gains at the expense of countries that share its objectives and instead utilizing the powers of influence and inspiration to enlarge the group of countries that work with the United States to a common purpose.

Those alliance relationships also require a forward strategy—the presence of U.S. diplomats and military forces in Asia, Europe, and the Middle East—to give credence to U.S. commitments. Together, that presence and the relationships it secures create a bulwark against threats, a shock absorber and an early warning system that gives time and space to meet dangers when they arise. To dismiss U.S. involvement today in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere as “endless” or “forever” wars—as both President Donald Trump and President-elect Joe Biden do—rather than as support to friendly governments struggling to exert control over their own territory misses the point. It is in the United States’ interests to build the capacity of such governments to deal with the threats that concern Americans; that work isn’t quick or linear, but it is an investment in both greater security and stronger relationships and preferable to the United States’ indefinitely having to take care of threats on its own.

Allies also supplement U.S. military strength. The 2017 National Defense Strategy was built on the assumption of three to five percent real annual increases in defense spending. This assumption has not been borne out by political realities, but a renewed focus on partnerships—on approaching security as a team sport—can reduce what is demanded of U.S. forces. That requires substantial investment to help build capable and willing allies, to negotiate and collectively enforce international rules and practices that restrain adversaries, and to sustain an industrial base that can provide for the defense needs of the United States and help meet those of its most essential allies. In time, such investment will more than pay off, since it enables allies to share more of the burden.

Defense resources cannot substitute for the many nonmilitary elements that go into national security: diplomats at the State Department, economists at the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve, trade negotiators at the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, public health experts at the Centers for Disease Control, lawyers at the International Court of Arbitration, development finance experts at the Export-Import Bank and the United States Agency for International Development, and technologists at the Federal Communications Commission.

There are many good reasons to invest in such tools. The military becomes both less capable and less legitimate as it moves outward from its essential functions. The Defense Department can serve to strengthen diplomats abroad and support civil authorities at home by providing assistance in areas such as logistics, the handling of biohazardous chemicals, or emergency contracting, but it should remain the supporting rather than the supported organization—and it should actively avoid the perception of being politicized, as was the case in last June’s Lafayette Square incident with Trump. Balancing the U.S. security portfolio in this way will naturally diminish the prominence of military elements without weakening U.S. defense by providing more diverse and effective contributions from nonmilitary sources. It will also prevent an excessive reliance on the military from eroding the United States’ traditions of civic governance and the advantages of a free society.

Such a rebalancing of the U.S. approach to national security is also necessary, however, when it comes to maintaining the country’s network of alliances and partnerships. Militarizing U.S. national security can dim the attractiveness of the American model, the appeal of which makes it easier for other countries to support U.S. policies. It also fosters an unhealthy division of labor among allies, with the United States taking on a disproportionate share of risk for military outcomes while its allies focus their contributions on development assistance or governance.

THE END OF AMERICA FIRST
The principal external threat the United States faces today is an aggressive and revisionist China—the only challenger that could potentially undermine the American way of life. The United States’ goal, however, should not only be to deter great-power war but to seek great-power peace and cooperation in advancing shared interests. For that, the United States’ alliances and partnerships are especially crucial.

Credibly sustaining the United States’ forward military strategy in Asia will require changes and improvements on a number of fronts: more effective nuclear deterrence, enhanced capabilities in space and cyberspace, dramatic improvements in the ability to project military power, and a renewed willingness to shift resources from lesser priorities. Since China is utilizing asymmetric strategies and technological innovation, the United States also needs a comprehensive approach to restoring what should be, and typically have been, its comparative advantages. The nature of competition has changed dramatically since the Cold War: earlier struggles for technological dominance played out in secretive national labs and other classified, government-sponsored domains, but today, state-of-the-art technology with military applications is being developed largely in the commercial sector with advances driven by consumer demand rather than government directive. Such technologies must be rapidly integrated into weapons systems and other defense platforms to empower new operational concepts and doctrines.

It will also be imperative to maintain robust alliances in Asia, especially with Australia, Japan, and South Korea; to strengthen relationships with partners such as India, Indonesia, and Vietnam that share an interest in maintaining a free and open region; and to participate more fully in and work to improve international organizations so that China cannot manipulate them to the United States’ disadvantage. Those partnerships are also important when it comes to strengthening and diversifying critical supply chains and reducing the country’s dependence on China for critical goods and materials (particularly for rare-earth materials), which the pandemic has highlighted in alarming ways.

Crucially, the United States should not press countries to choose outright between the two powers. A “with us or against us” approach plays to China’s advantage, because the economic prosperity of U.S. allies and partners hinges on strong trade and investment relationships with Beijing. Rather than treating countries as pawns in a great-power competition, a better approach would emphasize common codes of behavior and encourage states to publicly promulgate a vision for their country’s sovereign future and the types of partnerships they need to pursue it. It would also expand the cooperative space in which all countries supporting a rules-based order can work together to advance shared interests. Cooperation across different ideological systems is difficult but necessary, and there should be opportunities to cooperate with China in areas of overlapping interests, such as pandemic response, climate change, and nuclear security.

In January, when President Joe Biden and his national security team begin to reevaluate U.S. foreign policy, we hope they will quickly revise the national security strategy to eliminate “America first” from its contents, restoring in its place the commitment to cooperative security that has served the United States so well for decades. The best strategy for ensuring safety and prosperity is to buttress American military strength with enhanced civilian tools and a restored network of solid alliances—both necessary to achieving defense in depth. The pandemic should serve as a reminder of what grief ensues when we wait for problems to come to us."
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:56 am
CU77 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:20 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:37 am The operative words of the day in DC will soon be... stern warnings.
Which will have exactly the same effect as Trump's love letters.
I bet my mom gave me a million stern warnings when I was growing. They never worked on me. Maybe we should just say pretty please?
That's what Trump did. (Just to be clear, I am talking about Kim here.) I actually think it was a good idea. But nothing short of an all-out US first strike with nukes (that will incidentally kill a few million South Koreans) is going to get nukes out of Kim's hands. Stern warnings, love letters, nothing on that spectrum is going to work.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Looks like the Germans are going to (reluctantly) buy F-18 Super Hornets & EF-18 Growlers to replace their worn out Toronados in meeting their NATO nuc delivery & "Wild Weasel" air defense suppression missions (because no other available aircraft meet those requirements).
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-approves- ... a-55513389

The German parliament's budget committee on Thursday approved a €5.4 billion ($6.35 billion) contract to buy 38 Eurofighter jets from Airbus for the country's air force.

The contract is part of the German Defense Ministry's long-term plan to gain at least 93 Eurofighter jets, along with 45 F-18s from Boeing. Decisions on the purchase of the remaining jets are expected after Germany's federal election next year.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Changing of the guard for our rotating Armored Brigade forward deployed to NATO's E front, during a pandemic.
https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/Artic ... this-week/

Oct. 28, 2020
WIESBADEN, Germany —
Beginning this week, the 1st Armored Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division, from Fort Hood, Texas, arrives in Europe in support of Atlantic Resolve.

Soldiers will fly into military and commercial airports in Germany, Poland and Romania, while equipment will arrive via ship to the Port of Antwerp, Belgium. U.S. Army Europe appreciates the extensive support each of these nations will provide in the reception, staging and onward movement of forces and equipment.

Personnel arriving for Atlantic Resolve take many actions to reduce the risk of spreading COVID-19. Before departing the U.S., Soldiers will conduct pre-deployment Restriction of Movement and COVID testing. While traveling, all Soldiers will wear masks and follow strict hygiene measures. Once in Europe, Soldiers will again quarantine and test before travelling throughout the continent. The protection of our Soldiers and the surrounding communities is our top priority.

As the seventh armored rotation in support of Atlantic Resolve, 1/1CD will conduct bilateral, multinational training events with more than a dozen NATO allies and partner nations. These exercises build readiness, enhance interoperability and strengthen relationships between U.S. forces and our allies and partners across the theater.

“The Ironhorse Brigade is honored to deploy in support of Atlantic Resolve as a Regionally Allocated Force in Europe. It is a great privilege to aid in the preservation of peace by showcasing our Army's ability to project readiness across the globe,” said Col. Michael Schoenfeldt, 1/1CD commander. “The opportunity to participate in combined and joint exercises with our European partners and NATO allies in an effort to further interoperability is something every Ironhorse trooper is looking forward to.”

1/1CD replaces 2nd Armored Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division.

Enabled by the European Deterrence Initiative, U.S. Army support to the Atlantic Resolve mission consists of approximately 6,000 Soldiers assigned to armored, aviation and logistical task forces overseen by a Division Headquarters (Forward) based in Poznan, Poland. Active duty, Reserve and National Guard units rotate from the U.S. with their vehicles and equipment for nine months at a time. These heel-to-toe deployments ensure U.S. Army forces maintain a consistent, combat-credible presence to deter aggression in the region. The deployment of ready, combat-credible U.S. forces to Europe is evidence of the strong and unremitting U.S. commitment to NATO and Europe.
https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/wil ... e-1.653301
https://twitter.com/1BCT1CD/status/1333 ... gr%5Etweet
Every 9 mos, we rotate Armored Brigades, flying 10,000 soldiers & shipping 2 Armored Brigades of vehicles & equipment across 1/2 the US, the Atlantic, then the entirety of EUrope, to protect our EU-NATO allies from the Russian menace on their border. While our wealthy NATO allies scramble to cobble together token force (including US troops) in the NATO Baltic states. We've done this for the past 4 years, as we've supposedly undermined NATO.
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Re: Rough Seas for our Navy

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old salt wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:07 pm National Review article by Capt Jerry Hendrix, USN (retired)
The latest incident in a long line of recent trouble suggests continued internal weakness

The Navy suffered yet another cruel blow this past weekend when a fire broke out onboard the light amphibious carrier USS Bonhomme Richard, one of the oldest and most revered names in U.S. naval history, and then grew to massive proportions and spread throughout the ship. At one point the ship was entirely evacuated, firefighting tugboats pulled back, and the two destroyers that were tied up across the pier from the burning ship got under way as quickly as possible to escape the soaring temperatures and thick smoke. Local fire officials momentarily speculated that the ship might have to be left to burn “to the water line,” an outcome difficult to imagine for a steel-hulled vessel but not so difficult for those firefighters attempting to work in close proximity to the ship’s internal 1,000-degree Fahrenheit temperatures. The flames have raged for days, and firefighting efforts finally appear to be gaining control of the situation. The ship’s aluminum island has melted and her radar masts have collapsed, while Navy and local San Diego officials worried what would happen if the flames reached the ship’s fuel tanks, located just above her keel, well below the waterline, but containing 1 million gallons of the Navy’s special blend of diesel fuel.

For those who have served onboard Navy ships, the chain of events that led to the conflagration was not difficult to understand. The ship, a light amphibious carrier displacing some 45,000 tons, had been forward deployed to Japan beginning in 2012, and had returned to San Diego in 2018 to begin a major maintenance overhaul that would upgrade all of her major systems and prepare her flight deck for the embarkation of new Marine F-35B short-takeoff, vertical-landing fighters. This maintenance period was coming to an end and the many contractors onboard were finishing their repairs and gathering up their debris. Initial reports, which may be incorrect, suggest that “hotwork” was being done in the ship’s lower-well deck area, near a storage space where large amounts of rags, cardboard, and other flammable materials were gathered. The type of materials and the type of hotwork (the term alludes to welding or cutting torches or any number of operations involving ignition sources) have not been established, but what came next has been. At 0850 Pacific time, a fire was observed and the ship’s internal speakers ranged out with the dreaded “Fire-Fire-Fire. Fire in space . . .” followed by a description of the fire’s location onboard using the complex language of ships that every sailor learns upon joining the Navy. Following this initial statement, instructions followed for a firefighting party to gather at a equipment locker near the fire to suit up and advance in an organized manner toward the flames.

Every sailor in the Navy is trained from nearly the first moment they swear their oath to fight two things, flooding and fires, two phenomena that strike fear in the hearts of every person onboard a ship at sea. But the ship wasn’t at sea. Instead of its 1,100-man crew, the ship had only its weekend-duty section, fewer than 200 sailors, and they were dispersed throughout the ship. Hoses, ventilation tubes, and electrical cables commonly can be found snaking their way through a ship during complex maintenance periods, often being laid through hatch openings, and these interfere with a crew’s ability to shut hatches in the event of fire to establish boundaries. By the time they got their firefighting gear on and assembled, the fire was already out of control and making its way through the ship. Even the arrival of additional firefighting teams from the San Diego naval base as well as civilian teams from the surrounding community could not prevent the fire from gaining control of the ship, and soon the entire city was bathed in the thick smoke emanating from the once proud ship. The Bonhomme Richard is just over 23 years old. When she was built, she cost $750 million to construct, but to replace her today would take nearly $3.5 billion. It was expected that she would serve another decade in the fleet following the two years of repairs and investment that she had undergone in San Diego at a cost to the American taxpayers of several hundred million dollars. Because her maintenance included upgrades to her flight deck to allow her to embark the new F-35B Joint Strike Fighter, whose engine-exhaust temperature was significantly hotter than that of the old AV-8 Harrier, the ship was to be a critical central cog in the complex Navy deployment plan to provide naval presence in the western Pacific through the decade to come.

If the steel hull of the ship has emerged structurally intact, meaning that the sustained high temperatures associated with the fire have not weakened the strength of the hull or its supporting keel or ribs, then the ship could be repaired and returned to service. Such repairs would entail replacing all of the ship’s internal wiring, air ducts, insulation, and various computer and electronic subsystems. Certainly, the entire aluminum “island,” which contains the ship’s control bridge and primary flight-control spaces, would need to be replaced. This option would mean years in the repair yard and additional hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars to accomplish. However, if the hull plating or the internal ribs or keel have been compromised by the fire, then the ship will be decommissioned from service and struck from the list of active Navy ships.

This would be a heavy blow to a Navy that has struggled since reaching its modern low of 271 ships in 2015 during the Obama administration to climb back above 300, a number it just recently reached. The Navy had a healthy operational deployment schedule planned for its Pacific fleet and the Bonhomme Richard in the years ahead as it attempts to roll back rising Chinese influence and belligerency throughout the region, but the loss or sidelining of the Bonnie Dick, as the ship is affectionately known in the fleet, will place great financial strain on the service as well as additional operational strain on the light carriers that remain to take up the slack created by the ship’s absence. The bottom line is that the fire creates one more negative story about the Navy in a series of negative stories.

After years marked by the Fat Leonard graft and corruption scandal, the 2017 grounding and collisions that resulted in the deaths of sailors, and most recently the turmoil surrounding the relief, recommendation to reappoint, and then final conclusion that relief of the captain of the COVID-19-riven USS Theodore Roosevelt was justified, the Navy had hoped to step out on the right foot with the announcement that two carrier strike groups were operating together in the South China Sea, confronting China’s excessive territorial claims and bullying attitude there. But now the fire onboard the Bonhomme Richard has cast a pall not only over San Diego that can be seen from space but also over the Navy.

How did this fire happen? The answer will emerge from the investigation that will surely follow, but the events onboard the Bonhomme Richard will raise questions in the minds of our Navy’s sailors, our allies, and our competitors as to whether the U.S. Navy is still fit to fight a war if a major capital vessel can catch fire and gut itself while tied to a pier at a major naval base in one of the nation’s largest modern cities. The Navy appears broken in ways that the nation’s leaders are only now beginning to understand.
Navy announced that USS Bonhomme Richard will be decommissioned then scrapped. At this point,
it does not look like it will be replaced either.

https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/Press ... e-richard/

Investigation continues to determine cause of the conflagration.

Speaking of the Pentagon, Christopher P. Maier, head of the Pentagon’s Defeat ISIS Task Force overseeing the military’s efforts to combat the Islamic State was fired on Monday after a White House appointee told him the United States had won that war and that his office had been disbanded.
Last edited by Kismet on Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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Navy announced that USS Bonhomme Richard will be decommissioned then scrapped. At this point,
it does not look like it will be replaced either.
Tripoli (LHA ) just joined the Fleet. That gives us 9 LHA/LHD's in service. Bouganville (LHA) is under construction. A new LHA enters service every 4-5 years. New construction could be accelerated if we need more LHA's. We should be able to sustain at 9 LHD/LHA's as long as we decide we still need them, which could be indefinitely, so long as we operate the F-35B. The LHD/LHA's are conventionally powered. Their service life can be conserved & extended easier than a nuc carrier's can, which would need a 2nd reactor refueling to exceed 50 years of service.
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Matnum PI
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Re: The Politics of National Security

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