2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[seacoaster]

I am listening to Rudy in a Pennsylvania federal court, responding to the State's Motion to Dismiss. He's really bad, mistaking his audience I think.

Was his fly open and his shirt tail untucked?

Thankfully, audio only.

[Brooklyn]

Let's have that concession speech!

[Brooklyn]

Oh wait - here is that concession speech at long last:



https://twitter.com/Rosie/status/1328759597176336384



The American people have said, You're FIRED!

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://thenevadaindependent.com/articl ... ory-margin

[Typical Lax Dad]

[MDlaxfan76]

I am listening to Rudy in a Pennsylvania federal court, responding to the State's Motion to Dismiss. He's really bad, mistaking his audience I think.

Was his fly open and his shirt tail untucked?

Thankfully, audio only.

What's the timetable look like?

[ggait]

He just finished; totally dismal job. A true television rant in response to the Commonwealth's motion to dismiss.

Per NBC, the last time Rudy appeared in federal court was 1992.

More relevantly. Rudy did appear in a Borat movie within the last three weeks. And he could have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

For $20k a day, you'd think you could buy higher quality. But maybe My Cousin Vinny had a conflict?

But this probably isn't going to go on for many more days. So I guess you can't blame Rudy for trying to make hay while the sun is still barely shining.

[Typical Lax Dad]

He just finished; totally dismal job. A true television rant in response to the Commonwealth's motion to dismiss.

Per NBC, the last time Rudy appeared in federal court was 1992.

More relevantly. Rudy did appear in a Borat movie within the last three weeks. And he could have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

For $20k a day, you'd think you could buy higher quality. But maybe My Cousin Vinny had a conflict?

But this probably isn't going to go on for many more days. So I guess you can't blame Rudy for trying to make hay while the sun is still barely shining.

Trump couldn’t hire this guy?

[old salt]

But then that would make them ill equipped for decision making outside the environment those values were ingrained. A value based system for a specific system. But we’ve been told that wasn’t the case and that all servicemen are totally capable of managing in the non military world and could divorce that training. There’s a conflict in these arguments here.

Far from it. While military service at a junior level provides valuable experience & perspective for elected politicians, most retired flag officers don't transition well to being senior political appointees. That's why 4 star flag officers like Mike Mullen, Jack Keane & most others decline the opportunity.

Kelly didn't aspire to be a political appointee. He agreed to be "drafted" as DHS. He thought he could draw upon his experiences & diplomatic contacts as a regional Theater Commander to effectively address the growing humanitarian & security crisis on our southern border. Later, he reluctantly agreed to serve as CoS. In hindsight, I'm not sure he'd volunteer to do so again.

[seacoaster]

I am listening to Rudy in a Pennsylvania federal court, responding to the State's Motion to Dismiss. He's really bad, mistaking his audience I think.

Was his fly open and his shirt tail untucked?

Thankfully, audio only.

What's the timetable look like?

The hearing was interrupted, when the 4,000+ of us when silent. The court is in recess while ATT tries to get it back on line.

Rudy hardly addressed the merits of the Commonwealth's Motion to Dismiss, and the AG's office had just started into the argument in favor of the motion. There is some considerable time pressure here; the state certification is upcoming. My guess is that the Judge will issue an order in the next couple of days.

[CU88]

But then that would make them ill equipped for decision making outside the environment those values were ingrained. A value based system for a specific system. But we’ve been told that wasn’t the case and that all servicemen are totally capable of managing in the non military world and could divorce that training. There’s a conflict in these arguments here.

Far from it. While military service at a junior level provides valuable experience & perspective for elected politicians, most retired flag officers don't transition well to being senior political appointees. That's why 4 star flag officers like Mike Mullen, Jack Keane & most others decline the opportunity.

Kelly didn't aspire to be a political appointee. He agreed to be "drafted" as DHS. He thought he could draw upon his experiences & diplomatic contacts as a regional Theater Commander to effectively address the growing humanitarian & security crisis on our southern border. Later, he reluctantly agreed to serve as CoS. In hindsight, I'm not sure he'd volunteer to do so again.

Let's hope not, he failed miserably on these two postings.

[calourie]

A big shout out to Georgia Secretary of State Raffensberger for setting a brave example of how our politics are supposed to go regardless of the overwhelming partisanship now eating away at our democracry . Read an article the other day where the surviving Koch brother had a , "Whoops, I've created a monster moment." I hope our institutions and the people that defend them can prove elastic enough that we can eventually bounce back to a functioning center. We have our work cut out for us.

[seacoaster]

Rudy argued, at some length, a count that the Plaintiffs withdrew in their amended complaint the day before (oops), didn't know the term used by Pennsylvania for ballot secrecy envelopes (oops), didn't make a single reference to or citation of any applicable law or case, and tried to mark some exhibits into evidence at a 12(b) hearing, which is basically not done, because that motion tests the allegations of the claim and not the evidentiary support for it.

They are arguing the abstention issues now.

Meanwhile -- during the hearing -- the PA Supreme Court has overturned an order that sustained a Trump campaign assertion that ballot observers were not allowed to see things properly....So, another L.

But supporters outside are singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic, which may yet turn the tide.

[cradleandshoot]

Even here, with the election called by every credible and creditable source available at this point, General Kelly has to throw in the softening cushion of "be it Biden or Trump." True to form: General Kelly's association with Trump will be the soil that highlights his obituary someday. Just remarkably sad. ETTD.

He included that to encourage die hard Trump supporters to throw in the towel. He'll be remembered as someone who answered the call to serve (again) & did the best he could for the country, for as long as he could.

Sorry, I missed this response. I'm not sure how you know or if you know that General Kelly included that phrase for that purpose.

I don't doubt Kelly's motivation for taking the DHS job or the COS job -- I can agree that he answered the call of duty for honorable purposes. I just know that both effectively diminished him in the eyes of a lot of Americans, which is the near uniform way of things with anyone who gets near Trump. For as long as he could? Not so sure I agree. I disagree with what I gather you consider an honorable silence after his departure from the White House. General Kelly knew to a moral certainty that the President was a clear and present danger to the country, to the national welfare, and I think had an obligation to indicate to the public that this was the case. We can agree to disagree about that.

Perhaps Gen Kelly judged it would be less damaging to quietly let Trump pass from the scene. He remains true to the military ethos of not being openly critical of those in the chain of command of which you are part.

And when does this purportedly 'honorable' ethos fail to be more important than other obligations?

Where's that line, Salty? Is there no line?

What a pile of BS.

Kelly is not in the military nor was he when he was in the White House. He had and has no obligation to 'not criticize' if he knows that Trump is a danger to our democracy and to our national security and all the more so if he was to be elected a second time.

"pass quietly from the scene"...anyone expecting Trump to do that has to be stupid, and I don't think that's true of Kelly. And of course, even losing the election was surely not to be assumed, regardless of polls.

There are times MD when your ignorance of how military leaders hold certain values near and dear to their hearts is just stunning. Then again how could you ever understand that in the protected little world you grew up in. Gen. Kelly sacrificed his son for this country... What the f**k have you sacrificed, outside of letting your brother in law live in your basement.

You're out of bounds again with the personal attack, cradle.
Remember, you have no idea what sacrifices others have made.

We are discussing the choices Kelly as CoS and thereafter has made and why. He was not a military leader as such nor is he today. He was not in a military chain of command then nor is he today.

The military "leaders" I have known, including multiple generals and one admiral, are not the sorts who shirk responsibility for their choices. They hold others accountable, and would have themselves be held so as well.

They are not, however, perfect people. They too have made mistakes in their lives. As have we all.

There are indeed aspects of being in the military, in a chain of command, that are different from the civilian world, and generally with good reason, though there are, nevertheless, limitations of such. I asked Salty specifically about where, in his opinion, such line is drawn, if there is a line. If you have an opinion on that, by all means share.

But when a person with a military background leaves the military and enters the civilian world, the obligations of such change, markedly, and all the more so when one enters the political sphere and becomes a public figure with special obligations to our country which are quite different than those in the military.

That's not an opinion. It's reality.

Kelly chose to enter that political sphere as a civilian. And indeed into a position enabling the actions and decisions of the most divisive of political actors we have seen occupy that position in our lifetimes.

That was a choice, as were Kelly's various statements and actions during his tenure. As are the choices he's made thereafter.

And for all of which he is accountable.

It will be interesting to someday learn from Kelly his own version of the choices he made as CoS and thereafter. For now, his silence has been deafening.

“For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.”



When you insult and denigrate a decorated Marine Corp 4 star general i will personally insult you and attack you all day long. The really sad part is... you don't even understand what you said and who you said it about. Maybe every single secret service agent once they leave the service should be free and clear to spill all of the dirt on all of the presidents they served and protected? Gen Kelly did what any man of integrity that served in his position should have done, he didn't chit all over his former boss even when he deserved it. If he had chosen to do so, we both probably would have understood why. That is not what a 4 star highly decorated marine general does. Maybe someday he will write a book. He probably feels a terrible urge to share what he knows. If he writes it, i will buy it and read it. You of course are entitled to your opinion as to what you think Gen Kelly should have done. How many people of his stature will ever be brought in by any POTUS for their advice and consult if their discretion can't be counted on or they can't be trusted to keep their personal opinions to themselves? I would expect any 4 star general advising POTUS elect Biden to do the same thing, even if he thought his boss was running off the rails. Trump was certainly the exception to what is normal. The bottom line is trump was Kelly's boss. He could have quit at any time. IMO his nature as a marine made him want to try and steer trump in the right direction. trump was the titanic that already hit the iceberg. He was beyond help. I take it personal and it ticks me off when you denigrate the man for spending 16 months trying to stop the ship from sinking. Gen Kelly IMO did exactly what he should have done, kept his mouth shut for as long as he could. I do hope he puts his experience working for trump on paper and publishes it. God only knows what he stopped trump from doing?

[cradleandshoot]

But then that would make them ill equipped for decision making outside the environment those values were ingrained. A value based system for a specific system. But we’ve been told that wasn’t the case and that all servicemen are totally capable of managing in the non military world and could divorce that training. There’s a conflict in these arguments here.

Far from it. While military service at a junior level provides valuable experience & perspective for elected politicians, most retired flag officers don't transition well to being senior political appointees. That's why 4 star flag officers like Mike Mullen, Jack Keane & most others decline the opportunity.

Kelly didn't aspire to be a political appointee. He agreed to be "drafted" as DHS. He thought he could draw upon his experiences & diplomatic contacts as a regional Theater Commander to effectively address the growing humanitarian & security crisis on our southern border. Later, he reluctantly agreed to serve as CoS. In hindsight, I'm not sure he'd volunteer to do so again.

I wish i could state these issues as well as you OS. I become so perturbed by people here who denigrate the man for taking a job he probably never wanted in the first place and took too long to realize he was the wrong person, in the right spot at the wrong time. In the back of my mind I'm trying to visualize George Patton as CoS to Harry Truman.

[dislaxxic]

There’s Something Going Wrong With The Polls — At Least When Trump is On The Ballot

..

[Matnum PI]

Jaime Harrison on Lindsey Graham to CNN: "There is no reason, no reason whatsoever, that he should be calling the Secretary of State in Georgia asking about an election and recount that they're in the midst of."

[Matnum PI]

Breaking: The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has rejected the Trump campaign's claim that Republicans lacked access to Philadelphia's vote count proceedings. The ruling was 5-2 against the campaign.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Breaking: The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has rejected the Trump campaign's claim that Republicans lacked access to Philadelphia's vote count proceedings. The ruling was 5-2 against the campaign.

You mean Trump didn’t win?

[Farfromgeneva]

But then that would make them ill equipped for decision making outside the environment those values were ingrained. A value based system for a specific system. But we’ve been told that wasn’t the case and that all servicemen are totally capable of managing in the non military world and could divorce that training. There’s a conflict in these arguments here.

Far from it. While military service at a junior level provides valuable experience & perspective for elected politicians, most retired flag officers don't transition well to being senior political appointees. That's why 4 star flag officers like Mike Mullen, Jack Keane & most others decline the opportunity.

Kelly didn't aspire to be a political appointee. He agreed to be "drafted" as DHS. He thought he could draw upon his experiences & diplomatic contacts as a regional Theater Commander to effectively address the growing humanitarian & security crisis on our southern border. Later, he reluctantly agreed to serve as CoS. In hindsight, I'm not sure he'd volunteer to do so again.

I wish i could state these issues as well as you OS. I become so perturbed by people here who denigrate the man for taking a job he probably never wanted in the first place and took too long to realize he was the wrong person, in the right spot at the wrong time. In the back of my mind I'm trying to visualize George Patton as CoS to Harry Truman.

There’s still a conflict in the prior arguments, he clipped mine without the prior posts to which I was responding (yours) as they don’t synchronize very well.

And of course by OS argument it was yet another terrible choice to select Kelly by Trump if it’s so well known that senior level military folks don’t make good political appointees (which is different than being an elected politician, a technocratic role which should fit in quite well with senior level service)