2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[Farfromgeneva]

4 star general?

[ggait]

Just heard an interesting analysis.

2020 is the same as 2016. Except that most Gary Johnson voters voted for Biden instead.

2016 HC+GJ vs. Trump:

Mich 50.9% -- 47.6%
PA 50.0% -- 48.8%
WI 50.5% -- 47.9%

Seems pretty close. And makes sense -- since we know that hardly any Rs or Ds swing their votes anymore.

Will be interesting to see if Johnson/Biden voters will turn out to be the 2020 version of those famous 2016 Obama/Trump voters.

[DMac]

Careful here ffg, you're way out of your element. Rank determines exceeding?
That rank would out rank my old man, but he'd take a back seat to him in a whole lot of other parts of a military career.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe but I'm responding in kind which isn't good of course but perhaps I know more than you might realize, certainly more than I've been told by said old man that I know so why would I care anymore? We can't all be like MDLax and make nice all the time, I'm pulling a Cradle now.

Of course you're questioning what I know and it's ok for him to turd on servicemen he doesn't know and assuming he's good at what he did without knowing yourself. With all due respect to your old man, how do you know that Vindman? How about Crozier? It's all speculation, no? Is it because of things outside of service done? Support and defend the outgoing president at the expense of other servicemen?

The brother of a friend of mine has a purple heart for taking bullets in Iraq as a captain leading teams into rough areas to extract high value targets. He's also lied stolen and hurt a number of people on the soil here. Do I only judge him on his service? It's the person, not the laundry and what I know is what I've witnessed typed here. Unless you're telling me it's all a lie and fictitious on his part.

See what I'm saying. If you're telling me I'm stepping out then what the hell has he been doing for years here?

[old salt]

He was duly un-elected

That's the proper way to remove a President, despite all the other attempts.

You should write a letter letting folks know that impeachment clause needs to be removed! It doesn’t matter anymore!!

I don't need to. The electorate delivered the message that recklessly employing the impeachment clause comes at a cost.

C'mon, once again Salty. Trump with the help of a number of others just finished up a four year bold faced assault on the US Constitution, and I'm not talking the ship This election was almost totally a referendum on letting him stay in the leadership role in trying to undo that unique doctrine. Hopefully there won't be anyone as effective as he was in spreading chaos on so many fronts that make that assault that much easier. A giant step in the right direction from my perspective, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. A meaningful gesture on Trump's part to facilitate a smooth transition of duly democratically elected executive power looks like it will be a bridge way too far for our refuse to lose leader, but I guess we will just have to wait and see on that one as well.

Look at it on two levels.

(1) Was it an impeachable act ? Did he act outside the bounds of the powers of his office ? What did he actually do ? What did he follow through on ? He got 1 (R) vote to convict on 1 count that was a product of the unnecessary impeachment process.

(2) Look at it on a political level -- we have no idea how much it solidified Trump's support & how many "undecideds" said "I don't like Trump, but I like even less the way his opponents are abusing the impeachment process.

IMHO, it hurt the (D)'s, just like Clinton's impeachment hurt the (R)'s. That's why Pelosi & Hoyer tried to hold it off.
I may have missed it, but I don't recall Biden hammering away on impeachment & remaking the case.
...Ukraine & Burisma was the last thing he wanted to rehash.

[a fan]

(1) Was it an impeachable act ?

Yes. It's why Nixon was impeached. The White House doesn't get to use the Exec Branch to spy on their political opponents.

Did he act outside the bounds of the powers of his office ?

Yep. Again, Nixon was removed for doing this exact thing......

What did he actually do ?

Used the power of his office to try and get a world leader to attack his political opponent with a fake investigation.

If I'm Biden? The minute the R nominee for 2024 is announced , I'd send in ever Department in the Executive Branch to go after the candidate. Then if they so much as set foot overseas? I'd call in favors from every world leader, announcing an investigation into that nominees for corruption.

Then we can sit back and watch FoxNation try and keep their powder dry.

They won't complain, right?

[old salt]

Maybe but I'm responding in kind which isn't good of course but perhaps I know more than you might realize, certainly more than I've been told by said old man that I know so why would I care anymore? We can't all be like MDLax and make nice all the time, I'm pulling a Cradle now.

Of course you're questioning what I know and it's ok for him to turd on servicemen he doesn't know and assuming he's good at what he did without knowing yourself. With all due respect to your old man, how do you know that Vindman? How about Crozier? It's all speculation, no? Is it because of things outside of service done? Support and defend the outgoing president at the expense of other servicemen?

The brother of a friend of mine has a purple heart for taking bullets in Iraq as a captain leading teams into rough areas to extract high value targets. He's also lied stolen and hurt a number of people on the soil here. Do I only judge him on his service? It's the person, not the laundry and what I know is what I've witnessed typed here. Unless you're telling me it's all a lie and fictitious on his part.

See what I'm saying. If you're telling me I'm stepping out then what the hell has he been doing for years here?

Vindman & Crozier ? That's who you're referring to ? I thought you were referring to McMaster, Mattis & Kelly.
Vindman & Crozier both chose to circumvent the chain of command, blindsided their superiors & thrust themselves onto the national stage.
Crozier's loss of command was upheld by the chain of command, once a thorough investigation was completed.
His "signal flare" greatly complicated the efforts already underway & turned his crew against the chain of command.
I sympathized with Crozier until the facts began to emerge.
Vindman sought the limelight, then chose to retire, even though he was selected for promotion. Maybe his new CinC will ask him to return to active duty & serve as our senior Military Attache to Ukraine. ...he'll get an interesting reception by his seniors & fellow soldiers who'll never know if they can trust him.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe but I'm responding in kind which isn't good of course but perhaps I know more than you might realize, certainly more than I've been told by said old man that I know so why would I care anymore? We can't all be like MDLax and make nice all the time, I'm pulling a Cradle now.

Of course you're questioning what I know and it's ok for him to turd on servicemen he doesn't know and assuming he's good at what he did without knowing yourself. With all due respect to your old man, how do you know that Vindman? How about Crozier? It's all speculation, no? Is it because of things outside of service done? Support and defend the outgoing president at the expense of other servicemen?

The brother of a friend of mine has a purple heart for taking bullets in Iraq as a captain leading teams into rough areas to extract high value targets. He's also lied stolen and hurt a number of people on the soil here. Do I only judge him on his service? It's the person, not the laundry and what I know is what I've witnessed typed here. Unless you're telling me it's all a lie and fictitious on his part.

See what I'm saying. If you're telling me I'm stepping out then what the hell has he been doing for years here?

Vindman & Crozier ? That's who you're referring to ? I thought you were referring to McMaster, Mattis & Kelly.
Vindman & Crozier both chose to circumvent the chain of command, blindsided their superiors & thrust themselves onto the national stage.
Crozier's loss of command was upheld by the chain of command, once a thorough investigation was completed.
His "signal flare" greatly complicated the efforts already underway & turned his crew against the chain of command.
I sympathized with Crozier until the facts began to emerge.
Vindman sought the limelight, then chose to retire, even though he was selected for promotion. Maybe his new CinC will ask him to return to active duty & serve as our senior Military Attache to Ukraine. ...he'll get an interesting reception by his seniors & fellow soldiers who'll never know if they can trust him.

[Farfromgeneva]

Exactly, didn't even have to say names and he acknowledged it. Mattis, Kelly (especially Kelly) and McMaster.

[old salt]

(1) Was it an impeachable act ?

Yes. It's why Nixon was impeached. The White House doesn't get to use the Exec Branch to spy on their political opponents.
You're confused. Trump did not spy on anyone. Obama spied on him.

Did he act outside the bounds of the powers of his office ?

Yep. Again, Nixon was removed for doing this exact thing......
Where was the Trump burgulary ?

What did he actually do ?

Used the power of his office to try and get a world leader to attack his political opponent with a fake investigation.
No. He tried to get a legit investrigation of what US citizens did in the name of their country.

If I'm Biden? The minute the R nominee for 2024 is announced , I'd send in ever Department in the Executive Branch to go after the candidate. Then if they so much as set foot overseas? I'd call in favors from every world leader, announcing an investigation into that nominees for corruption.
That was the 2016 game plan used against Trump & his campaign. It backfired. I wonder if Stefan Halper & Azra Truk are still on retainer ? ....& whatever became of Prof Mifsud ? Just hire Glenn Simpson, Christopher Steele & Sid Blumenthal. A good job for Hunter & his partners, as soon as they get out of jail.

Then we can sit back and watch FoxNation try and keep their powder dry.

They won't complain, right?

[a fan]

You're confused. Trump did not spy on anyone. Obama spied on him.

Sez you. We haven't pulled a Durham yet, and gone after Giuliani and the rest of Trump's team, so see what they tried to do Joe and Hunter. I'll let you know when Giuliani and Trump's crew have been investigated 5 or 6 times.....

And if you have one single ounce of honesty and consistency in your bone with regards to your complaint about "weaponizing US intel, DoJ and FBI to go after political enemies"?? You'll be demanding an investigation into this Ukraine mess. With Giuliani as the main target.

No. He tried to get a legit investrigation of what US citizens did in the name of their country.

According to you? So did Obama. Yet you're furious that Obama did that. You can't keep your partisan BS straight.

Btw, legit? Getting caught on the phone telling a world leader to announce a fake investigation into Trump's political rival...and you're here telling us that that's fine.

Go away with this stuff. No one is this much of a partisan.

(ok, maybe DocB)

[holmes435]

Raleigh-Durham?

The prior Tech AD was a joke but both FB and BB are putting together some pretty good classes, next years FB class is Top 20 and BB just landed a high end recruit (out of Alabama I think).

NC State / Duke / UNC is a 3-4 hour drive depending on "potty breaks". UVA is 3-4 hours. DC is the same. A lot of good options for a day trip for a good game, but nothing easy on a regular day to day basis. C'est la vie, and on the other hand I can walk to a beach in 10 minutes and go fishing.

Interestingly enough, Clemson grabbed the GT AD before Bobinski (Radakovich, who hired Navy's Paul Johnson at GT) and pumped a ton of money into football. I hear they've done pretty well since then for an Agriculture school.

Clemson's campus is a lot nicer, smells better, and isn't as overcast as VT from my experiences.

[Farfromgeneva]

Have only been to the VaBeach/Newport News area 2-3x (only recall twice, think there was another, first time was to finance a portfolio of mediocre class B industrial properties). Drove kind of through it to get to Kilmarnock, VA a couple of times to see a bank and that town had a bit of "deferred maintenance". Recall driving up there after a meeting in Washington, NC which is near-ish to Cape Fear area. Would like to check it out sometime on a more recreational trip.

I'd prefer the VaTech region in/near the Shenendoah Valley over the Greenville flatland exurb-ish where Clemson is but less Blacksburg and more north of Roanoke up to a bit below Front Royal, basically a 150 or so mile stretch particularly fond of the areas around W&L (natural bridge/lexington) and the staunton/haymarket areas.

Rad was terrible at GaTech but the school has standards, I distinctly recall being at a donor function with the FIL where he was begging for money to buy out a recently provided long extension to BB coach Paul Hewitt and then a few weeks later just canning him and paying the full nut. Hated the Johnson hiring, really thought Chan Gailey was as good or better a coach, just got himself fired for trotting Reggie Ball out at QB for four years (3/15 against UGA his Senior year was a killer), but Gailey and staff brought in Philip Wheeler, Joe Anoi (now known in wrestling circles as Roman Reigns), Derrick Johnson, Calvin Johnson and a bunch of other studs. Paul Johnson never put three decent defensive players together in one season and ran a stupid offense if you're trying to be sniffing the top 10 more than once every two decades and was loathed by both alums and every other coach in the ACC. Rad shouldn't get credit for Dabo though as he was HC in 2008.

[old salt]

You're confused. Trump did not spy on anyone. Obama spied on him.

Sez you. We haven't pulled a Durham yet, and gone after Giuliani and the rest of Trump's team, so see what they tried to do Joe and Hunter. I'll let you know when Giuliani and Trump's crew have been investigated 5 or 6 times.....
Durham's investigation is not spying. It's a formal DoJ investigation with lawyers & a Grand Jury. Biden & Obama are not targets. Any report or indictments are being withheld outside the DoJ election window. I've said I don't necessarily anticipate any prosecutions. I just want to know who did what, why & on whose authority. Let Durham & the Senate wrap it up.
And if you have one single ounce of honesty and consistency in your bone with regards to your complaint about "weaponizing US intel, DoJ and FBI to go after political enemies"?? You'll be demanding an investigation into this Ukraine mess. With Giuliani as the main target.
I'd be happy to see that if it also sheds light on what our Amb & her staff did. ....& how do you investigate Ukraine without delving into what Hunter & associates did.

No. He tried to get a legit investrigation of what US citizens did in the name of their country.

According to you? So did Obama. Yet you're furious that Obama did that. You can't keep your partisan BS straight.
...& the investigations were completed. Mueller found no evidence of a conspiracy or co-operation with Russia. Now we are examining how those investigative powers were employed & if the investigation was adequately predicated. Based on the results, it would appear NO. Durham & documents may yet provide more information. .

Btw, legit? Getting caught on the phone telling a world leader to announce a fake investigation into Trump's political rival...and you're here telling us that that's fine.
Fake is your word. It was a legit request from one national leader to another.

Go away with this stuff. No one is this much of a partisan.
You keep bringing it up, then crying " Go away ". Let's get the answers, put it to rest & move on. Biden's the President for the next 4 years. Let's try for 2 Presidential elections in a row where our IC intervene to effect the outcome.

(ok, maybe DocB)
...or you. You keep circling back to it.

[a fan]

]Durham's investigation is not spying. It's a formal DoJ investigation with lawyers & a Grand Jury. Biden & Obama are not targets. Any report or indictments are being withheld outside the DoJ election window. I've said I don't necessarily anticipate any prosecutions. I just want to know who did what, why & on whose authority. Let Durham & the Senate wrap it up.

What I meant was.....Durham is an investigation into the investigators of Trump.

I'm saying: we haven't investigated the investigators in this whole Trump/Giuliani/Barr Ukraine affair yet. And if you believe in making it so that we're not weaponizing the government to go after political rivals? We should appoint a "Durham" to look into what went down.

. ....& how do you investigate Ukraine without delving into what Hunter & associates did.

Simple. Focus on what Team Trump did. Ignore what Hunter did.

You understand that the conflict of interest is gone now that Trump has lost, right? The DoJ and FBI can investigate Hunter until the cows come home, and reasonable Americans like myself would have no problem with that. None. Heck, I'd buy the popcorn....investigate away. The problem is that Trump DIRECTED that they go after Bidens family. That's not ok. And watching you pretend that you don't understand this is painful. That's why I use the phrase "go away" with this nonsense of yours.

Fake is your word. It was a legit request from one national leader to another.

Great. Then you won't get upset if Biden goes after the Republican nominee for President in 2024 using any means necessary....and asks foreign leaders to announce fake corruption investigations in the nominee and his family. That's great news! I can assure you that corrupt elements in the Dem Party will be THRILLED to hear Americans like you think that's a swell idea.

[old salt]

Great. Then you won't get upset if Biden goes after the Republican nominee for President in 2024 using any means necessary....and asks foreign leaders to announce fake corruption investigations in the nominee and his family. That's great news! I can assure you that corrupt elements in the Dem Party will be THRILLED to hear Americans like you think that's a swell idea.

If there's a video of the candidate, acting as Trump's emissary, demanding the firing of the prosecutor investigating a company paying the candidate's son millions to serve on their BOD, then go ahead & investigate.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXc3O6GMZt0

[a fan]

Great. Then you won't get upset if Biden goes after the Republican nominee for President in 2024 using any means necessary....and asks foreign leaders to announce fake corruption investigations in the nominee and his family. That's great news! I can assure you that corrupt elements in the Dem Party will be THRILLED to hear Americans like you think that's a swell idea.

If there's a video of the candidate, acting as Trump's emissary, demanding the firing of the prosecutor investigating a company paying the candidate's son millions to serve on their BOD, then go ahead & investigate.

Oh, making up a fake reason for the investigation is super, super easy. Believe me. No problem there.

Nice to hear you're on board!

[old salt]

I spent the better part of two years over there turn of the millenia and have been back probably 20x since. Personally met the Prime Minister of Denmark,

Did you offer any advice on mink euthanasia techniques ?

[Farfromgeneva]

Nope just told them all not to listen to anachronistic culture and race warriors from southern Maryland.