2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[Farfromgeneva]

Can we start talking about the “Trump Library”?

Not going to be at Fordham. More likely going to be a Biden Library at Penn.

Maybe a for-profit MAGA-land in Branson, Missouri?

Or turn Mar-A-Lago into the library...

I like both of these ideas. The Branson location would make some money.

...the responses to this question illustrate why the expected blue wave wasn't even a ripple.

Not a ripple. Time for you to retire, I think, and dog walk full time.

Biden defeated an incumbent, with every ordinary advantage of incumbency together with a willingness to bend the entirety of the apparatus of the Presidency, from imaging to public money to his reelection campaign. He defeated a relentless liar and cheat. He overcame a cultish devotion of people unwilling to understand the truth both about their hero and about the consequences to them in real terms. In the process Biden flipped four states (AZ, MI, WI, PA) taken by Trump in 2016, and won (or appears to have won) Georgia. That's right: an incumbent Republican couldn't (it appears, at least for now) easily defend Georgia. Your comment is a fail at humor, a fail at anything serious. Maybe get some sleep; read VDH -- it'll help with somnolence.

...everyone admires a sore winner. It takes a sense of humor to recognize humor. Your condescending attitude of personally attacking anyone who does not agree with you is representative of the massive disconnect that prevented the blue wave that your favorite media told us was inevitable.

This election was a rejection of Trump the man, not his policies, which I, among others, supported. It was made possible by a pandemic which decimated the economy & flooded the electorate with millions of unsolicited junk mail ballots which would not have been cast in normal times.

The advantage of incumbency ? Being at the helm when China released the pandemic ? Had Trump followed his predecessor's model & unleashed the FBI, CIA & State Dept on his opponent, while purchasing disinformation from a foreign power, imprinting the IC's imprimatur on it, then feeding it to a supplicant MSM -- then he would have used the advantages of incumbency, as his predecessor did in 2016, on behalf of his opponent.

You & Nancy Pelosi should read more VDH to understand why a safe was dropped on your heads.

China 'released the pandemic'...''nuff said.
Ahh, maybe not enough...you're the king of personal, condescending attacks on others.

And the king of whining.

"flooded the electorate with millions of unsolicited junk mail ballots which would not have been cast in normal times."

In PA? In Georgia?

You've exposed yourself over and over again as motivated by much more than "policies" (which you do a sound job of arguing). Nope, you're in the culture war game. Again and again.

Spoken like a true China apologist. China didn't release the pandemic ? If not, has your family business gone back yet ?
You pushed the story that it was just a few Chinese mid-level bureaucrats who failed to contain the spread, then blamed Trump for every US death, while ignoring even worse stats in EU democracies.

You are unable to de-personalize things. Trumpism wasn't just Trump. He was the flawed messenger who was able to break through the noise & shatter the establishment status quo.

If you can't see that Trump personally was repudiated , & not Trumpism, you'll never understand why the GOP left you in the desert with the bitter Lincoln Project never-Trumpers. You may as well drop the pretense & declare yourself a Dem.

The culture war drives policy, ...& your side deploys rioters & looters to fight it out in the street when they don't get their way legally, while you make excuses for it & try to equate them to irrelevant internet boogey men.

This rant sounds personal to me. Pretty angry and bitter as well.

[Farfromgeneva]

Somebody needs to explain to today's Democrats how to get buy-in for socialist programs, the way FDR did for Social Security and LBJ did for Medicare.

Pretty much everyone I know 65 and above thinks that they paid for their Social Security and Medicare benefits, and are not getting back any more that they put in, and that they therefore deserve every bit of it.

And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score.

However this psychology was implanted, today's Ds need to replicate it. They're doing a terrible job so far.

Ds are always promising more gubmint help, but R voters do not want gubmint help! They want to succeed on their own gumption and wits, dangnab it!

So that's what the Ds need to give them. Here, pay in for this medical program, you'll get every dime back in services and none of your money will go to those undeserving fools without gumption, we're gonna screen real good so that doesn't happen. Each will pay in according to his ability, and then pay out will be according to built-up credit, as measured by real need.

Yep. Those righties don't like government help. So that's why corporations deduct medical insurance and other such costs on their corporate tax returns. This in turn means that taxpayers are underwriting their medical coverage. In other words, socialism for the rich. And let us not forget abatements, bailouts, inducements, subsidies, tax preference items, and other forms of corporate welfare. That's not socialism, no NO NOO NOOO! That's business or so they say.

This was easy low hanging fruit that also wasn't addressed with ACA. De-tangling employer subsidies from healthcare, even if it were to make it equally deductible as an individual or removing it for corporations. Also allowing insurers to cross state lines would've been an easy step.

That's where not necessarily a flat tax, and a VAT is a mistake too, but a simpler and cleaner code removes frictions and creates and more efficient system by many many percentage points for the individual citizen and taxpayer.

[Farfromgeneva]

Somebody needs to explain to today's Democrats how to get buy-in for socialist programs, the way FDR did for Social Security and LBJ did for Medicare.

Pretty much everyone I know 65 and above thinks that they paid for their Social Security and Medicare benefits, and are not getting back any more that they put in, and that they therefore deserve every bit of it.

And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score.

However this psychology was implanted, today's Ds need to replicate it. They're doing a terrible job so far.

Ds are always promising more gubmint help, but R voters do not want gubmint help! They want to succeed on their own gumption and wits, dangnab it!

So that's what the Ds need to give them. Here, pay in for this medical program, you'll get every dime back in services and none of your money will go to those undeserving fools without gumption, we're gonna screen real good so that doesn't happen. Each will pay in according to his ability, and then pay out will be according to built-up credit, as measured by real need.

"And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score."

Where have you been on this topic skippy? I talk about this all the damn time on this forum. My grandfather died 2 months after he retired in 1972. He never saw a social security check and he paid into it from day #1. In the governments eyes he was a true patriot. He died before they had to pay him a single penny.

That's it! Covid is a conspiracy of the millenials and AOC to level the playing field with all you boomers who are taking too much!

[CU77]

blamed Trump for every US death, while ignoring even worse stats in EU democracies.

I've said from the beginning that Germany would be my benchmark for the US.

Latest data I can find on covid deaths per million people:

Germany: 11240/83.02 = 135

United States: 237000/328.2 = 722

I'd prefer to use excess death estimates rather than official covid deaths, but those numbers are harder to find. Won't change the fact that the US is doing worse by a factor of ~5.

[a fan]

I guess I should tell you that you don't know how a plane works next?

You already did.

You're an interloper, OS. You're one of the eiltes that TrumpFans think are no-nothings. A fancy kid from THE elite military school in the world, and they've convinced themselves that you think you're better than the enlisted men that you outranked.

Just a taaaad out of context, OS.

I was mocking your idea that TrumpFans are talking about "someone else" when they refer to "the coastal elites".

Pssst: you live on the coast, and not only received an elite education.....you had an elite career that 99.9% of Americans only see on the silver screen. You are a card-carrying member of the coastal elites!

...only because they offered free room & board & a small pay check, in addition to free tuition.
I stayed due to spousal career & personal inertia, ...& lacrosse.
I still feel like a stranger in a strange land, but I keep quiet (other than here), out of politeness.

I know, I know. You think folks who rail on the "coastal elites" care about how you got there?

They're stereotyping....and you fit the bill to a T.

Heck, we all know about lacrosse stereotyping...and it's not flattering.

[CU77]

"And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score."

Where have you been on this topic skippy? I talk about this all the damn time on this forum. My grandfather died 2 months after he retired in 1972. He never saw a social security check and he paid into it from day #1. In the governments eyes he was a true patriot. He died before they had to pay him a single penny.

I stand corrected sir!

It's a legit complaint if you want a society without shared sacrifice and shared burdens.

Having nothing like social security and medicare would be totally fine with me, as long as we let those who failed to save up enough for their old age are just left to die in misery and pain.

I'm down for it! Bring it!!!

[CU77]

...only because they offered free room & board & a small pay check, in addition to free tuition.

"They"?? Who is this "they" of which you speak that conferred these benefits upon you???

Could you possibly mean the Federal Government of the United States???

A national armed forces is a socialist concept. In true capitalism, each of use would have (or join) a private militia for protection.

[Farfromgeneva]

Well the point of having borders and a government and giving up some rights is in order to obtain operating leverage in infrastructure and national defense. It's kind of government 101 so feels like a stretch to call any shared resource socialism. Otherwise there'd be no such thing as a government in practice or reality.

I've always been for safety nets, just question certain expansions, such as in SSI Diability (and my father collected it for years, but had zero cartilege in his body by age 45 from the worst from of Rhuemathoid Arthritis, like case study in med school level stufff). For the most part these debates are, or least were historically and should be, about relative levels of government involvement, it isn't or shouldn't be a binary debate or concept.

[CU77]

Yeah, I'm stretching my argument well past the breaking point.

The honest debate is, as you say, about how expansive/extensive the gubmint social "safety net" should be, and how much economic mobility it should promote.

[Kismet]

Going to be real fun for those GOPers down ballot to go for invalidating all those votes DOPUS wants tossed - have to toss the ENTIRE ballot.
Of course, there won't be many tossed because there aren't any that are provably invalid across multiple states no less.



Cry me a river DOPUS!

[dislaxxic]

This election was a rejection of Trump the man, not his policies, which I, among others, supported. It was made possible by a pandemic which decimated the economy & flooded the electorate with millions of unsolicited junk mail ballots which would not have been cast in normal times.

Asking again, WHAT policies do these 70 million+ voters see in Donald Trump? Not the ones like you aided as you are by VDH, and who knows WHO else, but the average fly-over Trumper, WHAT "issues" are they that animate these people, can you say?

..

[a fan]

Well the point of having borders and a government and giving up some rights is in order to obtain operating leverage in infrastructure and national defense. It's kind of government 101 so feels like a stretch to call any shared resource socialism. Otherwise there'd be no such thing as a government in practice or reality.

Not true at all. Again the definition of socialism is: when the government owns AND manages the entity in question.

So when the .gov cuts a check to Hopkins to do DoD research? That's not socialism.

But if we started a Government DoD lab? That would be socialism. Simple, simple difference.


You can privatize it all! Ever hear of BlackWater? We privatized military services.

We can have nothing but private roads. There is NOTHING keeping us from doing that.

Private parks. Private colleges. Private High Schools.


Btw, you can have a public park that is managed by a private company. That's no longer socialism.

[Farfromgeneva]

We've been through this and it's not the clear cut argument you make but you're wasting your words continuing with me. We wouldn't have borders without some amount of shared resources. Feel free to continue to argue this point with others, but it's dogmatic and you're not the only one who's studied government or economics here. Throwing out webster's dictionary account doesn't settle it though you think it does. I can trot out like 30 professors who you wouldn't call illegitamate who have specializations in this and would back me up but you won't agree.

Outsourced management distinction doesn't work because it still comes with oversight. That's still management. You can't split that baby the way you like to.

College government 101 is three cats on by a market, one in the middle and one by the water. All fish and sell at the market. They come together to collectively build a road to make the process of harvesting to sale more efficient for all. That's not socialism. This deliniation of government as a stand alone entity is the flaw in your argument but you'll never give it up.

BTW, "ever heard of Blackwater"? Somewhat condescending. I've owned and traded bonds around the Chicago Skyway, the first PPIP of a public asset in the history of this country so I've done some work around the sale of a "government" asset and have some understanding of what I'm talking about here.

[dislaxxic]

Joe's first policy question to Mitch maybe should be: "What law will you sned me to sign, that you will allow to pass in the Senate, to address the issue of healthcare/ACA repair/replace? If there was EVER a time for you to pull out this mega-terrific plan that you've had squirrelled away for years now, NOW IS THE TIME! Here's your chance Mitch, I (Joe) am ready to compromise with you to get it done, show me what you got."

With the SCOTUS poised to hack down the last vestiges of the ACA, it's time for Mitch to take responsibility for that outcome and put up what he will allow to pass the Senate...

..

[3rdPersonPlural]

This election was a rejection of Trump the man, not his policies, which I, among others, supported. It was made possible by a pandemic which decimated the economy & flooded the electorate with millions of unsolicited junk mail ballots which would not have been cast in normal times.

Asking again, WHAT policies do these 70 million+ voters see in Donald Trump? Not the ones like you aided as you are by VDH, and who knows WHO else, but the average fly-over Trumper, WHAT "issues" are they that animate these people, can you say?

..

Tax breaks for Billionaires!! We're all one lucky lottery ticket away from vast riches, and we don't want to have to cede more than we have to once the ship comes in.

Immigrant kids in cages!! Once you see some LatinX mom who speaks no english using that food stamp card to buy groceries for her family, you grab your taxpaying wallet tight and endorse extreme measures to keep these leaches OUT!!

Less Regulation!! I have never met a Trumpist who can cite a regulation that has been relieved that affects them directly. But we all know about the regulations that kept our water and air clean that have been cancelled. This turns into jobs, right?

Conservative Judges!! Conservative means an end to Roe v Wade, and we want that. How those guys will rule on matters that affect the people who don't own the factories and land is not really taken into consideration. Pro LIFE!!

Own the Libs!! Per my 'Conservative' friends: The elites who run Washington and the Media are universally Liberal and whatever causes the fact checkers to light up is actually a new truth that has triggered the Libs who own the fact checkers. So if the liberal "Fact checking" squad has to be dragged in to tell lies, Trump must have hit a nerve. This sort of machination delights the Trumpists. Libs got owned every time fact checkers are cited. Trump triggers the Libs A LOT!

[cradleandshoot]

"And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score."

Where have you been on this topic skippy? I talk about this all the damn time on this forum. My grandfather died 2 months after he retired in 1972. He never saw a social security check and he paid into it from day #1. In the governments eyes he was a true patriot. He died before they had to pay him a single penny.

I stand corrected sir!

It's a legit complaint if you want a society without shared sacrifice and shared burdens.

Having nothing like social security and medicare would be totally fine with me, as long as we let those who failed to save up enough for their old age are just left to die in misery and pain.

I'm down for it! Bring it!!!

That is not how ss was sold to the people back in the day. It was suppose to be an account set up for the individual worker to help him or her upon retirement. I know I have an account that goes back to 1974. The folks at ss were kind enough to keep track of every penny they took from my paycheck. I really don't give a flying fig about people stupid enough to not plan for their future. I don't wish ill will on them. Why should I have to pay for their stupidity? If the government wants to take care of them let the government tax the rich and hand the tab to them.

[CU77]

Like I said, it's fine with me.

I want a job as an armed guard (ideally with shoot-to-kill orders) at the steel-reinforced doors of my local hospital.

But carting away the diseased dead bodies of people who didn't save up (or who lost all their money in, say, the Trump Mexican condo scam), that's not gonna be my thing.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://twitter.com/rosanner429/status/ ... 43269?s=21

[wgdsr]

Somebody needs to explain to today's Democrats how to get buy-in for socialist programs, the way FDR did for Social Security and LBJ did for Medicare.

Pretty much everyone I know 65 and above thinks that they paid for their Social Security and Medicare benefits, and are not getting back any more that they put in, and that they therefore deserve every bit of it.

And at the same time, when one of them dies before age 65, their surviving family doesn't complain about all the money paid in that now isn't going to come back after all. Ive never once heard or read a complaint on this score.

However this psychology was implanted, today's Ds need to replicate it. They're doing a terrible job so far.

Ds are always promising more gubmint help, but R voters do not want gubmint help! They want to succeed on their own gumption and wits, dangnab it!

So that's what the Ds need to give them. Here, pay in for this medical program, you'll get every dime back in services and none of your money will go to those undeserving fools without gumption, we're gonna screen real good so that doesn't happen. Each will pay in according to his ability, and then pay out will be according to built-up credit, as measured by real need.

the point is and always will be that r's don't believe government is the saviour of all problems. you can throw in that some faction thinks they'll end up paying for everyone else if you want to, but that overriding sense remains.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://twitter.com/rosanner429/status/ ... 43269?s=21

Now even Kim Jong Il is telling to his secretary “tell him I’m doing my hair” when Trump calls.