SCOTUS

[njbill]

Yet when they are sucked out you can see little arms and little legs. They are just unviable tissue masses that were never even human. How many "evacuations" have you witnessed again? They are human life, they were so at the moment of conception. I know it assuages your guilt to think otherwise. When you have actually witnessed your first "evacuation" i will be more than happy to respect your opinion, if you still feel the same way.

Same as you. Zero.

Spare me your holier than thou attitude. You who call these women murderers.

You are wrong on the law. Wrong on the science. Wrong on religion, except the backwards back alley ones. Wrong on morality. Wrong on human rights. And way, way out of the main stream of opinion in this country.

[6ftstick]

Unfortunately, he's right. Its easier (and cheaper) to use abortion as birth control for many women, including the drug addicts, uneducated etc., rather than fix the real problem of drug addiction or edicating them.

Right. And again, pro-lifers are actively stifling efforts to fix that....and has been for decades. I don't get it.

And none of you can explain why pro-lifers are doing that. This tells me that they're all that interested in fixing the problem.

Libs would jump for joy if you signed on, and blew a billion per year to end unwanted pregnancies......they're sitting by the phone. All you have to do is call them, and give them the green light.

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

[njbill]

Repeat offenders?

You are part of the problem. Not as big a part as those who call 18-year-old girls who decide to have an abortion murderers, but part nonetheless.

Unfortunately, he's right. Its easier (and cheaper) to use abortion as birth control for many women, including the drug addicts, uneducated etc., rather than fix the real problem of drug addiction or edicating them. Those are the repeat offenders. Plentiful abortions is the left's "easy button" solution.

Spare me your elitist garbage.

[a fan]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....


I'm not surprised----one bit---by your volunteer work. Bravo!

[6ftstick]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....

But there ya go. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE PAY FOR IT!

[RedFromMI]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....


I'm not surprised----one bit---by your volunteer work. Bravo!

And teach them human sexuality in such a way that they understand the need and appropriateness of using contraception. In my county, they adopted a curriculum that for a large part is designed to "scare" the students into not having sex outside of marriage, which is ineffective in keeping them from doing that, and misses out on real education.

[jhu72]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....

But there ya go. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE PAY FOR IT!

... gotcha, so you are OK with abortions!

[RedFromMI]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....

But there ya go. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE PAY FOR IT!

We pay a lot more for either the abortion or the consequences of an unwanted child carried to term...

[jhu72]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....


I'm not surprised----one bit---by your volunteer work. Bravo!

And teach them human sexuality in such a way that they understand the need and appropriateness of using contraception. In my county, they adopted a curriculum that for a large part is designed to "scare" the students into not having sex outside of marriage, which is ineffective in keeping them from doing that, and misses out on real education.

... no you can't do that ... pick a bogus reason why you can't.

[a fan]

But there ya go. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE PAY FOR IT!

Which is more important to you:

1. Using the government to teach personal responsibility

2. Preventing abortions


You're telling me that #1 is more important to you than #2. Which is silly, because as you know, I can list unearned Federal handouts until the cows come home.

That tells me that your team isn't all that serious about #2. Respectfully, I don't think your team has thought about this very carefully.....

[jhu72]

Same old arguments for not doing what makes sense. They have been reciting them since the 70s.

[CU77]

i have never and will never advocate denying a women her right to terminating a pregnancy. i will say the same thing to you that i have said here repeatedly... if you ever witnessed what and "evacuation" looked like up close and personal you would be disturbed more than you could ever know. My opinion will never change. termination is a womens legal right. I will be damned if i will stand by here on the sidelines and say that it is no big big deal. It is a barbaric process that causes trauma to a lot of people. That includes beside the mother to the nurses that have to be there to assist. It is legal but IMO it will always be immoral in the eyes of God.

And … I basically agree with all of this. "Immoral in the eyes of God" is not a phrase I would use, but I agree that choosing abortion is a weighty act with deep consequences for all involved. In a better world, it would never be chosen lightly; in an ideal world, it would never be chosen at all.

[6ftstick]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....

But there ya go. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WE PAY FOR IT!

We pay a lot more for either the abortion or the consequences of an unwanted child carried to term...

Then we're stupid enablers. And you're solution is enable more.

[RedFromMI]

I volunteered (prior to the Chinese Virus) to drive medicare patients to their appointments and adult assisted living and mental health patients to their programs.

At the reception desks of each facility were BASKETS FULL of condoms. Contraception everywhere. Free provided by the tax payer.

That's GREAT. I'm saying: go bigger. Free IUD's. Free birth control for any American women who want it. Same for men.

Lib's are willing to pay for that. So are moderates like me. If your team comes on board? Unwanted pregnancies would drop like a stone.

And everyone wins.....


I'm not surprised----one bit---by your volunteer work. Bravo!

And teach them human sexuality in such a way that they understand the need and appropriateness of using contraception. In my county, they adopted a curriculum that for a large part is designed to "scare" the students into not having sex outside of marriage, which is ineffective in keeping them from doing that, and misses out on real education.

... no you can't do that ... pick a bogus reason why you can't.

It gets worse - my late wife was on the committee that looked at the curricula (but the board of ed made the final decision). She had a degree in health education, and my daughter (now a doctor) was working on a degree in public health after an undergraduate degree in biological sciences. They agreed the other curriculum, while somewhat imperfect was FAR better than the one that got eventually chosen.

And when it was time for training, the woman who led it (late wife was there for it) actually behaved quite inappropriately in teaching the material, which was even worse than the evaluation materials. Not a great choice.

[DMac]

Incest and rape doesn't even make the list, so in your view, kram, none of these women should have had a choice.

Why women have abortions
In a 2004 survey of 957 women having an abortion, one in four said their most important reason for having the procedure was that they weren't ready for a child or the timing was wrong.

Not ready for a(nother) child/Timing is wrong 25%
Can’t afford a baby now 23%
Have completed my childbearing/Have other people depending on me/Children are grown 19%
Don’t want to be a single mother or am having relationship problems 8%
Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child/Feel too young 7%
Would interfere with education or career plans 4%
Physical problem with my health 4%

https://givingcompass.org/article/the-d ... abortions/

Frankly, I think it's the girl's choice and until you've walked in her shoes you're not qualified to pass judgement on her whatever your moral (religious) values might be. Was never in a position to have to make this decision (miraculously), never had any daughters either. Had I, if my 16 year old told me she was pregnant and felt as if abortion was her best/smartest option I would have supported her.

[njbill]

+1.

I understand that for some, maybe many, women it isn’t an easy decision. And I understand some may have some resulting emotional issues.

Nevertheless, it is the woman’s decision to make, for a good reason (for her), a bad reason, or no reason. Just like any of us are free to make good or bad decisions on our own.

It ticks me off for MEN to tell women (who they don’t know) what decisions they should make with their own bodies and, worse, to criticize or scold them based on some belief, religious or otherwise, of their own.

[cradleandshoot]

i have never and will never advocate denying a women her right to terminating a pregnancy. i will say the same thing to you that i have said here repeatedly... if you ever witnessed what and "evacuation" looked like up close and personal you would be disturbed more than you could ever know. My opinion will never change. termination is a womens legal right. I will be damned if i will stand by here on the sidelines and say that it is no big big deal. It is a barbaric process that causes trauma to a lot of people. That includes beside the mother to the nurses that have to be there to assist. It is legal but IMO it will always be immoral in the eyes of God.

And … I basically agree with all of this. "Immoral in the eyes of God" is not a phrase I would use, but I agree that choosing abortion is a weighty act with deep consequences for all involved. In a better world, it would never be chosen lightly; in an ideal world, it would never be chosen at all.

Agree with you 100%. A number of folks here think i am advocating the reversal of R v W. i will not ever do so because that would be a legal disaster in and of itself. What i am advocating is the painful decision to terminate causes more pain than some folks here are willing to acknowledge. For many women it is a horrific choice they live with for the rest of their lives. My decidedly unpopular opinion here is pretty simple, why can't we find a home with loving parents for these children before their lives are snuffed out. Is that really asking for too much?

[ggait]

Could someone point me to a real world reason why we are having this stupid pointless conversation????

Look at the polls linked above.

79% of Americans favor legal abortion in all or many circumstances. In 1975, that number was 75%. This issue has been settled for 50 years. People's minds have not changed on this. There is zero indication that minds will change in the future.

The lip flapping about RvW is just symbolic partisan base boosting. RvW has had little practical significance for many may years. It barely matters today as a legal/practical matter.

If RvW were to be over-ruled (not gonna happen by the way) there would be almost zero practical impact. Abortions would continue to be harder to find in Missouri and Utah -- as is already the case. And easier to find in CA and NY -- as is already the case.

C&S -- you've told us about your personal feelings on this (over and over and over). So now please do us a favor and move on. We are talking SCOTUS and law on here. Talk about your personal feelings somewhere else, OK?

[cradleandshoot]

+1.

I understand that for some, maybe many, women it isn’t an easy decision. And I understand some may have some resulting emotional issues.

Nevertheless, it is the woman’s decision to make, for a good reason (for her), a bad reason, or no reason. Just like any of us are free to make good or bad decisions on our own.

It ticks me off for MEN to tell women (who they don’t know) what decisions they should make with their own bodies and, worse, to criticize or scold them based on some belief, religious or otherwise, of their own.

NJ we are damn near close to agreeing with each other here. Choosing to terminate is never an easy decision. I only wish it was not the only decision many of these women have to make. i am all for making abortion safe, legal and rare. In my world the rare part is the very best thing any of us could wish for. Any baby that can have the chance at life should have that opportunity. If the mother decides otherwise, that breaks my heart. That is the mothers legal choice to make. i will never judge her one way or the other. It will always break my heart though.

[CU77]

I took a look at the Kavanaugh opinion. Is he really this big of an idiot? How on earth did he get this far?

As a term paper in any decent undergrad "Law and society" class, that opinion would get a C minus.