CNN Says 'White Men' are the Biggest Terror Threat in US

[MDlaxfan76]

And bone spurs...

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

[cradleandshoot]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

[ToastDunk]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

I've got to agree with MDlaxfan here, although Cradles comment did cause me some pause. Ultimately I would think our military commanders find white supremacists in the ranks to be a detriment to their fighting forces. The military certainly has requirements for enlisting, and celebrating your affiliation in a hate group should be disqualifying. But as Cradle suggested, how far do we expect the deep dive to go in determining who's part of one of these groups. I don't know what's reasonable here, or feasible. But I'm sure we all agree that showing up at your local recruiter with "SS" tattoos, along with "14" and "1488" tattoos adorning your hands and arms ought to be met with "don't call us, we'll call you."

Here's the definition of White Supremacy by Oxford Dictionary -- The belief that white people constitute a superior race and should therefore dominate society, typically to the exclusion or detriment of other racial and ethnic groups, in particular black or Jewish people.

Most likely this person is a problem for command and should be weeded out.

On the other hand, a communist is probably good at taking orders. (okay, just trying to lighten things up here.)

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

[PizzaSnake]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

Cradle,

You state “I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. ”

Yes indeed. The US Army is a particular organization with a particular mission: one of the governments franchisees in the monopoly of violence and death. There are others, both external (other branches of military) and internal (various law enforcement agencies).

What the military, and law enforcement agencies want, is relatively callow and impressionable youth: it is easier to inculcate them with the organization’s ethos and mission.

So, I the case of WS who seek to join these organizations, the question has to be: is adoption of that particular belief set so antithetical to the target organization (military or law enforcement) as to be grounds for exclusion? To answer this we must consider the purpose and powers of the target organizations. Both the military and law enforcement share the power of state-sponsored violence and death.

Those powers are so awesome that it is reasonable that candidates for inclusion in those organizations be held to very high standards. After all, we limit certain offices to non-felons (think President), so why not exclude those who have adopted such detestable personal viewpoints. After all, a misdemeanor marijuana excludes large portions of the electorate from all kinds of societal privilege.

[MDlaxfan76]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

[MDlaxfan76]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

Today it's a privilege, during a period of a draft, it becomes a civic requirement as well, though even then service remains a privilege from which one can be excluded for all sorts of reasons and actions.

Of course, with "privilege" comes "responsibility", something you could certainly have a whole debate about, but this idea that it's someone Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

Today it's a privilege, during a period of a draft, it becomes a civic requirement as well, though even then service remains a privilege from which one can be excluded for all sorts of reasons and actions.

Of course, with "privilege" comes "responsibility", something you could certainly have a whole debate about, but this idea that it's someone Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-for ... ation.html

[holmes435]

Related:

The Top 5 Reasons Soldiers Really Join The Army, According To Junior Enlisted


Studies tackle who joins the military and why, but their findings aren’t what many assume

[cradleandshoot]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

Today it's a privilege, during a period of a draft, it becomes a civic requirement as well, though even then service remains a privilege from which one can be excluded for all sorts of reasons and actions.

Of course, with "privilege" comes "responsibility", something you could certainly have a whole debate about, but this idea that it's someone Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense.

I have a suggestion for you MD. This November on a really cold, rainy and windy night dig a slit trench arm pit deep in your back yard. Soak yourself to the bone with a garden hose and jump into that trench and cover yourself with a poncho liner and enjoy the experience for all that is worth. Then get back to me and let me know how much of a privilege it was to become border line hypothermic. You can enhance the experience when you get up in the morning throw that 60 pound ruck sack on your back and start out on a 25 mile hike out there in God's country. Eventually your knees will stop knocking and your clothes will dry out. Then all you will have to worry about is the fatigue, the blister on your toe that is now bleeding and the abrasions on your shoulders from the ruck sack straps digging in. Just keep telling yourself what a privilege it is to experience such discomfort and pain. If you get hungry (sadly there are no longer C rats) you can dig into a nice cold can of beef slices with gravy. Wash it down with some nasty water that has been in your canteen from the local creek with those iodine capsules in there to make it safe to drink. Again you will beam with pride at the having the opportunity to have such a privilege in your life. Try it... you will enjoy the privilege of having had the experience.

My fellow soldiers and I could probably come up with a million words to describe the experience for you. I am damn sure the word privilege would not be one of them. This is off topic but our fellow non airborne soldiers use to pick on us with this little saying. The only thing that falls from the sky is bird chit and fools. Our reply was simple... but chicken chit never leaves the ground. I will admit to you that it was a privilege to serve in the 82nd. It had nothing to do with the US Army as an organization. It had everything to do with the soldiers i had the honor to serve with. When we were at our most miserable we had each other to lean on and help us get through it. All ya gotta do soldier is keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[cradleandshoot]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

Today it's a privilege, during a period of a draft, it becomes a civic requirement as well, though even then service remains a privilege from which one can be excluded for all sorts of reasons and actions.

Of course, with "privilege" comes "responsibility", something you could certainly have a whole debate about, but this idea that it's someone Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense.

"Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense."

Just for snips and giggles why don't you go to your local recruiting office and tell that to the recruiters there? I hope you get back to me with their response to you. My guess is you will wind up with a size 10 spit shined corcoran placed squarely between your left cheek and your right cheek.
You may want to practice your basic PLF so you don't injure yourself as your flying through the air and land on the sidewalk outside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_landing_fall

[Typical Lax Dad]

Again, if you learned that these folks, whether ISIS or white supremacist Boogaloo or Proud Boys or Klan or...were actively going into the military, recruiting from the military, you'd be incensed, right?

These are the people with whom you should be angry.

I just asked this same question to Red. It is not illegal to be a member of a WS group. If it is not illegal to be a member of a WS group, how does the military legally exclude them from joining? You do understand you are advocating opening up a legal argument that the SCOTUS will never defend. WS are an immoral bunch of folks in all of our eyes. If you are advocating vacating their constitutional rights to be a member of an immoral group of hate filled people. I file that in the same section as burning the American flag. It is vile and repulsive but it is protected by the constitution of the United States. I am willing to listen to your argument about which constitutional rights we should pick and choose depending on how repulsive they are to us as individuals. Maybe some of those black panther guys who are not that crazy about most white folks should be excluded from military service too. I hope you have a clear understanding of the road you want to venture down and where it leads to.

No, every American citizen has the right to have various opinions that most of us would consider "repulsive". And to say them.

But there are indeed repercussions, including exclusion from access to various things, ala access to classified information, access to young children if you advocate pedophilia...and access to US military training if you advocate for the overthrow of the United States or violence against fellow Americans.

Being in the military is not a Constitutional right. It's a privilege.

There are millions of former draftees in America today that would beg to differ with you.

Today it's a privilege, during a period of a draft, it becomes a civic requirement as well, though even then service remains a privilege from which one can be excluded for all sorts of reasons and actions.

Of course, with "privilege" comes "responsibility", something you could certainly have a whole debate about, but this idea that it's someone Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense.

"Everyone's "right" to be in the military is just nonsense."

Just for snips and giggles why don't you go to your local recruiting office and tell that to the recruiters there? I hope you get back to me with their response to you. My guess is you will wind up with a size 10 spit shined corcoran placed squarely between your left cheek and your right cheek.
You may want to practice your basic PLF so you don't injure yourself as your flying through the air and land on the sidewalk outside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_landing_fall

https://www.military.com/join-armed-for ... ation.html

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

[Peter Brown]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

C&S, I am afraid you are falling for the oldest lefty trick in the book, which is you are engaging these bozos on their terms.

Once you start debating the what-ifs of white supremacy in the military, they've won...this is the adage when you wrestle a pig in mud, no matter who wins, the pig's gonna be happy.

What the MD's of the universe want you to admit is one WS exists in the US military so they can tell their echo chamber lemmings the whole foundation is rotten. They truly do not like America...look at their posts just on this topic, a constant drumbeat of the US military is infected from top to bottom with WS. The persistence comes form a dark place, that they WANT this to be true, and no matter what facts you give them proving otherwise, they walk away happy you engaged them at all. Why? Because now they can tell their friends that even a service veteran agrees with them, even when you clearly didn't. How often on these boards do you see lefties capable of reflection once confronted with narrative-busting facts such as you have done? MD and TLD come away from this convo even more convinced that our military is basically the KKK.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

Disqualification guidelines are listed above.

[ToastDunk]

And there’s the PB hand grenade.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

C&S, I am afraid you are falling for the oldest lefty trick in the book, which is you are engaging these bozos on their terms.

Once you start debating the what-ifs of white supremacy in the military, they've won...this is the adage when you wrestle a pig in mud, no matter who wins, the pig's gonna be happy.

What the MD's of the universe want you to admit is one WS exists in the US military so they can tell their echo chamber lemmings the whole foundation is rotten. They truly do not like America...look at their posts just on this topic, a constant drumbeat of the US military is infected from top to bottom with WS. The persistence comes form a dark place, that they WANT this to be true, and no matter what facts you give them proving otherwise, they walk away happy you engaged them at all. Why? Because now they can tell their friends that even a service veteran agrees with them, even when you clearly didn't. How often on these boards do you see lefties capable of reflection once confronted with narrative-busting facts such as you have done? MD and TLD come away from this convo even more convinced that our military is basically the KKK.

I come away from the convo thinking you are even dumber than I gave you credit for.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/unite ... ds-3354015

[Peter Brown]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

C&S, I am afraid you are falling for the oldest lefty trick in the book, which is you are engaging these bozos on their terms.

Once you start debating the what-ifs of white supremacy in the military, they've won...this is the adage when you wrestle a pig in mud, no matter who wins, the pig's gonna be happy.

What the MD's of the universe want you to admit is one WS exists in the US military so they can tell their echo chamber lemmings the whole foundation is rotten. They truly do not like America...look at their posts just on this topic, a constant drumbeat of the US military is infected from top to bottom with WS. The persistence comes form a dark place, that they WANT this to be true, and no matter what facts you give them proving otherwise, they walk away happy you engaged them at all. Why? Because now they can tell their friends that even a service veteran agrees with them, even when you clearly didn't. How often on these boards do you see lefties capable of reflection once confronted with narrative-busting facts such as you have done? MD and TLD come away from this convo even more convinced that our military is basically the KKK.

I come away from the convo thinking you are even dumber than I gave you credit for.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/unite ... ds-3354015

TLD: why don't you simply start cheering for Venezuela to succeed? Wouldn't that make you happier and give you a life goal at the same time?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cradle - there have been prior investigations of white nationalist movements that have purposely asked members to join the military, lay low about their beliefs, and get training so they can bring it back to the group.

This is, unfortunately, not a fictitious report...

I still call it horsechit. I served long enough to know it when I see it. IMO I don't think the average WS jackwagon has the intestinal fortitude to make it through basic training and AIT. If they do then they will come out of the other side understanding that their mission is to serve their country. I saw myself how the misfits in my unit fell by the wayside and were thrown out of the service. I'm sorry but i just am not buying it. My personal experience tells me otherwise. If these WS want to play soldier I'm sure they can learn enough on line to have their own little training camps out in the woods. They can go out and shoot their rifles and become the good little WS they always wanted to be. I fully believe their kind would not be acceptable to their fellow soldiers.

Cradle, let me be clear, I agree with you that a majority (and I think it's got to be a vast majority) of the men and women serving in our military have done so for the reasons you stated. These are brave men and women who love our country. Full stop.

We do have a problem in this country with a rise in white extremism (and we're seeing it in Europe as well). Our military is not immune to these people. I didn't find the article suggesting the U.S. Military is a bunch of white supremacists, but rather identifying there is evidence of white supremacists in the military. I think we would all agree we don't want any "WS jackwagons" serving in our military. I didn't read the article as an indictment of the military, but rather the need to better identify white extremists during the recruit screening process.

I did not post this piece to get a rise out of, or show any disrespect to, those here who have served.

P.S. PB, I don't hate this country. I don't think the authors of the piece hate this country. Please be more careful with your accusations.

I apologize to you for taking your post out of context. Here is a point for you to think about. Should it be illegal to be a member of the US military if you belong to or have allegiance to any extremist group what so ever? IMO that opens up a pandora's box of sticky issues that would make it almost impossible to recruit young people into the military. Where would the US military draw the line? Is it even legal to ask a potential recruit about their personal or private beliefs. Being a member of a WS group may be frowned upon by many people. Since it is not illegal to do so why should it exclude you from serving your country? The Boy Scouts of America have a problem with pedophiles in their rank and file. Should that exclude Boy Scouts from the military? I could go on and on. I think I understand the point of view the military takes. If you choose to join they will do everything they know how to do to knock the civilian right out of you. They have been doing it for a very long time and they are pretty damn good at it IMO.

well, I sure know that I don't want pedophiles in the Boy Scouts!

And no, being in the military is not a right, it's a privilege.

And if we know from the outset you are a member of extremist group, especially one which has been identified for its violent intentions against the United States or its citizens, then, yup, you don't get that privilege. Doesn't matter whether it's ISIS or Boogaloo, you shouldn't get in. Period.

I don't disagree necessarily with your sentiments. You are now bringing up a much more complex legal issue. If it should be illegal then the government has to set these parameters. In doing so you will have excluded a very large portion of America from ever serving in the military. You may want to be careful what you are advocating for here. The solution you seek causes more potential problems than it does answers. I know one thing that I am sure has not changed in 40 years. The US Army wants soldiers that will follow orders and complete the mission at hand. If it took a mob of street thugs to accomplish that mission I don't think the Army would care.

That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military. And yeah, the Army actually does care. Today's military are not mindless, bloodthirsty marauders, nor would we want them to be.

Seriously, you think there's such a large portion of the US population who are members of groups like the Boogaloo boys or Proud Boys or Klan, that US military performance would be compromised???

You must think there's an awful large portion of the military is white supremacist...yikes.

And it's actually not a "complex legal issue". If you're a member of a terrorist org, you don't get in...or if you join such while in, you get bounced.

Hold the phone there chief. IS IT ILLEGAL TO BE A MEMBER OF A WS GROUP? Your b***h ain't with me it is with the US Government. I had people in my unit that served because the judge told them you go into the army or you go to jail. These were people convicted in some instances of violent felonies. One soldier in my unit fired a shotgun into his former girlfriends car. I served with some people you would have never let into your house. They were all fine soldiers who despite what they did in the past followed f***ing orders without hesitation. The Army did not judge them on what they did but who they became as soldiers. If the US government decides they don't want any particular group of people in their ranks serving in the military then let them do so. Until then it is not illegal to serve your country.

"That's the thing, cradle, "street thugs" are the opposite of today's professional, volunteer military."

But if your going to stab someone in the heart during hand to hand combat and look him in the eyes while he bleeds out you can bet your damn ass you have some street thug in you my friend. You can volunteer or have been drafted but that is a cold hard reality that is potentially a part of the job description.

cradle, I'm sure that a capacity to be mentally and emotionally tough when needed, as well as physically, is essential for effective military service, certainly those on the pointy end of the spear. If that's all you meant by "street thug", I misunderstood.

And certainly I'm not arguing with you about the experience of being in the military being one which can change a person to the better...not so sure the following orders aspect is a change for the better, but certainly in other ways.

But you are repeatedly mixing up whether some belief or activity is "illegal" or not with whether it is helpful to the effectiveness of the military of today and whether inclusion in the military can be denied of someone for a reason such as involvement with a hate group that has at part of its stated purpose the overthrow or destruction of the US government, the death or subjugation of US citizens.

Nope, this has nothing to do with "illegal", it's simply undesirable to have such folks in positions of power over others with the imprimatur of authority of the US government and it's downright stupid to train them in military weaponry and tactics.

To my knowledge being a member of a WS group or any other organization anybody of any race could be a member of does not exclude the individual from military service. I have no idea how such a regulation could even be enforced. Where do you draw the line MD? If you are a member of the Black Panthers does that exclude you? What about the Hell's Angels? I could go on and on. The military I believe has at least 3 conditions that must be met. You have to have a HS diploma or a GED. You can't have a criminal background and you have to pass the physical. Being a member of a WS group may make you "undesirable" since the military is not required to ask being a member does not exclude you. I am sure some common sense is used by the military recruiters if a potential recruit has too many warning flags like a swastika tatooed on his forehead. I know of one poster here whose name I will never mention that was turned away by the army back in the 60s. The military is capable of using good judgement at times.

C&S, I am afraid you are falling for the oldest lefty trick in the book, which is you are engaging these bozos on their terms.

Once you start debating the what-ifs of white supremacy in the military, they've won...this is the adage when you wrestle a pig in mud, no matter who wins, the pig's gonna be happy.

What the MD's of the universe want you to admit is one WS exists in the US military so they can tell their echo chamber lemmings the whole foundation is rotten. They truly do not like America...look at their posts just on this topic, a constant drumbeat of the US military is infected from top to bottom with WS. The persistence comes form a dark place, that they WANT this to be true, and no matter what facts you give them proving otherwise, they walk away happy you engaged them at all. Why? Because now they can tell their friends that even a service veteran agrees with them, even when you clearly didn't. How often on these boards do you see lefties capable of reflection once confronted with narrative-busting facts such as you have done? MD and TLD come away from this convo even more convinced that our military is basically the KKK.

I come away from the convo thinking you are even dumber than I gave you credit for.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/unite ... ds-3354015

TLD: why don't you simply start cheering for Venezuela to succeed? Wouldn't that make you happier and give you a life goal at the same time?

We are closer to Venezuela today than we were 4 years ago.

Trump - Pence 2020
MAGA by VFTA!