2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[jhu72]

RepubliCONs don't try to suppress the vote.

[youthathletics]

Copying your peers is the highest form of flattery. The left must be proud.

[youthathletics]

How soon Chris Wallace and the left forgets. Trump condemns, publicly, in March 2016

[jhu72]

Even Fox News (distinct from Fox Entertainment) is tired of the Trumpnista lying, gaslighting and bull$hit.

[seacoaster]

How soon Chris Wallace and the left forgets. Trump condemns, publicly, in March 2016

Of course, that leaves us with the real problem. He lies. All the time. This time.

White supremacy is part of his constituency. And, YA, they’re your mates now.

[wgdsr]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

Pretty much agree with this.

I think the main problem we are having now is that states that have never heavily relied on mail in ballots are trying to come up with rules on the fly with both Covid and highly partisan political concerns really mucking up the process.

this, of course, is not surprising.

Have been pretty persuaded by ggait about the Colorado approach being the way to go. Unfortunately this year, with all the politics, some state legislatures and governors are having difficulty agreeing on a common set a reasonable rules.

read all of colorado's rules over the summer. a great standard. and also one that has been in place and infrastructure for a long time.

One of the problems we are having in New Jersey is that clerks seem to be using old mail in ballot templates which don’t fit what is being done this year. Previously, New Jersey allowed no excuse mail in ballots, but you had to request them. This year, everyone is getting mail in ballots. No request is needed.

But some of the lingo from the old forms seems to have carried over inadvertently. I was just talking to my cousin who lives in a different county. He has gotten his ballot. I haven’t gotten mine. His ballot has a place to sign a certification that he had requested the ballot.

This is obviously a carryover from the former system. It is confusing because you don’t know whether to sign it (even though you didn’t request a ballot) or not (leaving something blank is also a possible concern).

this is just an example of one of a gajillion potential issues that are... predictable/unpredictable. you'd think someone would catch that. or not. you'd think new york wouldn't send out 100k mislabeled ballots. now what? throw in tossing out votes for minor misses on filling out. ugh. we are a third world country.

Another problem is that the completion of mail in ballots is new to the large majority of New Jersey voters. I am sure after you do it a few times over a few years, it becomes second nature, but the safety measures, while laudable and necessary, also inject a layer of complication which can cause problems for some people.

[njbill]

1-1.3 Postmarks

A postmark is an official Postal Service™ imprint applied in black ink on the address side of a stamped mailpiece. A postmark indicates the location and date the Postal Service accepted custody of a mailpiece, and it cancels affixed postage. Since 1979, the Postal Service’s Postal Operations Manual (POM) has provided standards for postmarks applied to single-piece First-Class Mail®. Letters and flats that need to be postmarked come from carrier pick-up, collection boxes, retail counters, or lobby drop boxes. Postmarks are not required for mailings bearing a permit, meter, or precanceled stamp for postage, nor to pieces with an indicia applied by various postage evidencing systems.

Sounds like mail in ballots aren’t postmarked, at least if they bear a permit (postage prepaid?) which is the case in New Jersey.

Does that mean if you have to put your own stamp on it your ballot will be postmarked?

[njbill]

Any of these rules is perfectly fine from a fraud perspective. You just have to pick one and stick to it without any rat-forking partisan interference

The mailbox rule is fine and actually used for lots of situations. When I paid my quarterly taxes on 9/15, for example, the IRS didn't get my money on 9/15. I wrote a check and mailed it on 9/15. My payment is timely so long as there's a postmark 9/15. If I screw up and don't mail the check early enough in the day to get a postmark, that's on me. Works just fine.

What supposedly is going to be the fraud game under PA's mailbox rule?

A bunch of people don't vote on Tuesday. Then when they see the Joe is trailing, those people all rally to vote by mail in the wee hours of Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. Then, those late voters somehow have to bribe the postal workers in order to avoid application of postmarks. Or to get them to do backdated postmarks. How exactly could this be pulled off in volume? And if you're going to try this, why wouldn't you just do something to get those folks to just vote by Tuesday? Seems a LOT easier. Come one guys, its all partisan BS.

But the better rule is that your ballot has to be received by the election folks on election day. That how CO does it. Because we Coloradans don't tolerate rat-forking, the election officials (D, R and I) highly publicize the deadline rule as election day approaches. And we have TONS of drop boxes and drop sites and folks are encouraged to use them instead of the mail as Tuesday approaches. Lots of drive throughs open on Saturday and Sunday. And the good thing is that, for counting results, the election canvass ends on Tuesday and the results are available quickly (since we start counting early).

One drop box for all of Harris County/Houston? Seriously -- five forking million people live there!! But a rural county with five thousand people also gets one box? That's full on Banana Republican right there. And we all know it.

What is the deadline for putting your ballot in a dropbox? Close of polls on election day? 11:59 PM?

[runrussellrun]

1-1.3 Postmarks

A postmark is an official Postal Service™ imprint applied in black ink on the address side of a stamped mailpiece. A postmark indicates the location and date the Postal Service accepted custody of a mailpiece, and it cancels affixed postage. Since 1979, the Postal Service’s Postal Operations Manual (POM) has provided standards for postmarks applied to single-piece First-Class Mail®. Letters and flats that need to be postmarked come from carrier pick-up, collection boxes, retail counters, or lobby drop boxes. Postmarks are not required for mailings bearing a permit, meter, or precanceled stamp for postage, nor to pieces with an indicia applied by various postage evidencing systems.

Sounds like mail in ballots aren’t postmarked, at least if they bear a permit (postage prepaid?) which is the case in New Jersey.

Does that mean if you have to put your own stamp on it your ballot will be postmarked?

Yes.

Maybe, asking questions, earlier in the process, like this question, could have helped with the process

[njbill]

How soon Chris Wallace and the left forgets. Trump condemns, publicly, in March 2016

Of course, that leaves us with the real problem. He lies. All the time. This time.

White supremacy is part of his constituency. And, YA, they’re your mates now.

Just because he may have disavowed something in 2016 doesn’t mean he can’t have subsequently reaffirmed or “avowed” the same thing.

Just listen to the words that come out of his mouth. That really should be the end of it.

“Stand by.” Clearer words were never spoke.

Just don’t use the word smart around him.

[Peter Brown]

Looks like a fan and gaits sec of state ain’t a huge fan of democracy!

Jena Griswold asks press to not release results election night. Only Democrats could say this and not have media mercilessly mock them.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/01/ ... ion-night/

Stalin was so right: it’s not who votes that counts; it’s who counts the votes.

Democrats won’t even blush.

[jhu72]

Looks like a fan and gaits sec of state ain’t a huge fan of democracy!

Jena Griswold asks press to not release results election night. Only Democrats could say this and not have media mercilessly mock them.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/01/ ... ion-night/

Stalin was so right: it’s not who votes that counts; it’s who counts the votes.

Democrats won’t even blush.

... don't worry, your piece of sh!t fake president will announce he won, no matter the circumstance.

[jhu72]

How soon Chris Wallace and the left forgets. Trump condemns, publicly, in March 2016

Of course, that leaves us with the real problem. He lies. All the time. This time.

White supremacy is part of his constituency. And, YA, they’re your mates now.

... and YA is just fine with it.

[ggait]

What is the deadline for putting your ballot in a dropbox? Close of polls on election day? 11:59 PM?

Same time polls close -- 7 PM.

[Peter Brown]

Looks like a fan and gaits sec of state ain’t a huge fan of democracy!

Jena Griswold asks press to not release results election night. Only Democrats could say this and not have media mercilessly mock them.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/10/01/ ... ion-night/

Stalin was so right: it’s not who votes that counts; it’s who counts the votes.

Democrats won’t even blush.

... don't worry, your piece of sh!t fake president will announce he won, no matter the circumstance.

I noticed you don’t object to this Stalinist’s move. Wonder if you’d be as nonchalant if she was a Republican?

Don’t worry we all know the answer.

[youthathletics]

How soon Chris Wallace and the left forgets. Trump condemns, publicly, in March 2016

Of course, that leaves us with the real problem. He lies. All the time. This time.

White supremacy is part of his constituency. And, YA, they’re your mates now.

Just because he may have disavowed something in 2016 doesn’t mean he can’t have subsequently reaffirmed or “avowed” the same thing.

Just listen to the words that come out of his mouth. That really should be the end of it.

“Stand by.” Clearer words were never spoke.

Just don’t use the word smart around him.

Perfect....so we all agree words do not matter. Let's now move to policy....... whatcha got?

[Typical Lax Dad]

1-1.3 Postmarks

A postmark is an official Postal Service™ imprint applied in black ink on the address side of a stamped mailpiece. A postmark indicates the location and date the Postal Service accepted custody of a mailpiece, and it cancels affixed postage. Since 1979, the Postal Service’s Postal Operations Manual (POM) has provided standards for postmarks applied to single-piece First-Class Mail®. Letters and flats that need to be postmarked come from carrier pick-up, collection boxes, retail counters, or lobby drop boxes. Postmarks are not required for mailings bearing a permit, meter, or precanceled stamp for postage, nor to pieces with an indicia applied by various postage evidencing systems.

Sounds like mail in ballots aren’t postmarked, at least if they bear a permit (postage prepaid?) which is the case in New Jersey.

Does that mean if you have to put your own stamp on it your ballot will be postmarked?

If you put one of those forever stamps is seems like it won’t have a postmark.....from an earlier post.

The post office is no longer postmarking letters generally. Stamps with dot matrix codes on them are scanned at sorting and forwarding locations as they pass through the mailstream, and the postal service will know if the same stamp gets used twice. I.e., they are "electronically cancelled". This doesn't apply to older, "lick and stick" or self adhesive stamps that have no dot matrix codes. Because the latter are the minority in the mail now, they frequently don't get postmarked. They are risky for the post office due to possibility to reuse them, but newer stamps without dot matrix codes come apart in nlayers when you try to soak them off of envelopes - it becomes obvious that it is a re-used stamp. Older lick and stick stamps can be soaked and reused without detection, but the value of that activiity is so low it's not worth the post office effort to go after single incidents - they'll go after people making a business of it, but they don't even try to collect postage due anymore and mail sent with no stamps or with the "VOID" labels affixed (that read, "This block is not valid postage") that come out of vending machines in post office lobbies.

Those labels have a phosphorescent pink or clear stripes on them, and the USPS machines scan and read them and "think" they are regular postage. Five years ago, the machines blocked the stripe by overprinting it with black ink - but the post office turned that off, too.

Under current regulations, customers have a right to get a clear dated postmark. But now, after the advent of "IBI" (bar coded stamps) you have to ask at the postal counter for a hand postmark, to be certain that it happens. Metered mail is deemed postmarked when the stamp comes out of the meter machine. It has a date, except in the case of bulk mail which can be franked with meter labels that come out of the meter machine without a date. The date is presumed to be accurate, because the regulations require that someone renting a meter is to put the metered mail into the postal system to day the meter stamps are printed from the machine. Meter users can get a 1/2-cent or so discount for this, because they are saving the post office from having to do it. If a postal employee runs the metered mail through the cancelling machine, you may see a metered piece of mail with a regular postmark on top of it. All sorts of things can occur.

Up to a few years ago, the post office issued precanceled stamps that had preprinted bars across them, that bulk mailers could use en-masse to send large quantities of mail at a discount. They'd give these letters to their local post office, which would send them out without ever running them through the postmarking machine. That's another exception to the belief "everything is to be postmarked”

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.edcgov.us/Government/TaxCol ... lties.aspx

Just remarkable....free and fair elections....wait until we tell Egypt or Turkey how to run their elections.

[a fan]

One drop box for all of Harris County/Houston? Seriously -- five forking million people live there!! But a rural county with five thousand people also gets one box? That's full on Banana Republican right there. And we all know it.

Yep. There's no spin here. You're just a POS un-American jerk to do that kind of commie totalitarian Horse*hit.

And how enjoyable will it be if this backfires, and R's lose seats because all the old people who normally vote....don't?

...and then the Dems, having won? Leave this policy in place permanently.

[Typical Lax Dad]

One drop box for all of Harris County/Houston? Seriously -- five forking million people live there!! But a rural county with five thousand people also gets one box? That's full on Banana Republican right there. And we all know it.

Yep. There's no spin here. You're just a POS un-American jerk to do that kind of commie totalitarian Horse*hit.

And how enjoyable will it be if this backfires, and R's lose seats because all the old people who normally vote....don't?

...and then the Dems, having won? Leave this policy in place permanently.

This is what our military serves to protect. Democratic principles.