2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[wgdsr]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

[Peter Brown]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

All well and good to gently ask USPS to postmark the date. But what if there isn’t a postmark and it comes in a week afterward? Or a day after?

[seacoaster]

Stanley McChrystal just came out with a hell of an endorsement of Joe Bidden.

From the NY Times:

On Thursday, General McChrystal added a coda to the story: He endorsed Mr. Biden, now the Democratic presidential candidate, not President Trump, to be the country’s next commander in chief.

“I worked most closely with President Obama and Vice President Biden when I commanded in Afghanistan,” the general told Joe Scarborough on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

“They didn’t see everything the way I did,” he added. “But in every instance, they listened. In every instance, they took in my view. In every instance, I felt that they were trying to make the best decision based on all the information they had, and based on a bedrock of values.”

The Biden campaign immediately embraced General McChrystal’s statement.

“Vice President Biden is honored by General McChrystal’s endorsement,” said Andrew Bates, the campaign’s spokesman. “And he couldn’t agree more that the next commander in chief must ‘respect people who serve and have served’ and be ‘someone that you can trust’ — which would be a decisive break from Donald Trump, the most dishonest president in American history and the only one to have utterly disgraced himself by calling veterans and the fallen ‘losers and ‘suckers.’”

On Thursday, General McChrystal said disagreements between people who respect each other are healthy for a democracy — and, in any case, he said that Mr. Biden would be better for the country than Mr. Trump.

“You have to believe your commander in chief, at the end of the day, is someone you can trust,” General McChrystal said. “And I can trust Joe Biden.”

Bam.

[wgdsr]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

All well and good to gently ask USPS to postmark the date. But what if there isn’t a postmark and it comes in a week afterward? Or a day after?

bolded above.

[Typical Lax Dad]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

In what year did our national elections become fraught with voter fraud? We have been Zambia all of this time?

[wgdsr]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

In what year did our national elections become fraught with voter fraud? We have been Zambia all of this time?

2000? did you read the times article i posted earlier? do you have doubt that either side would "do what it takes"?

[Typical Lax Dad]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

In what year did our national elections become fraught with voter fraud? We have been Zambia all of this time?

2000? did you read the times article i posted earlier? do you have doubt that either side would "do what it takes"?

Was there widespread fraud? I will read it.

EDIT: Looked like garden variety voter suppression. Where has widespread voter fraud been documented? Not mistakes or errors but voter fraud such that we will now make it more difficult to vote?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Deplorable

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/resear ... -year.aspx

[wgdsr]

i guess it depends on your definition. and that was centralized.

here's the strawman:
-pa is separated by 2600 official votes at the close of business.
-there's a new law that says votes that come in over the week will be counted if they are postmarked before election day OR not at all.
-evidently, a significant percentage of mail now goes un-postmarked

what do you think might happen next?

[Typical Lax Dad]

The move significantly affects the Democratic stronghold of Harris County, which is the state's largest county by population -- one of the most populous in the country -- and covers a massive area. It must now reduce its 11 drop-off locations down to one starting on Friday. Travis County, which includes the reliably Democratic city of Austin, must limit its four drop-off locations to one.

Why? What is a good reason? We may see The United States of America referred to as the former democracy.

[Peter Brown]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

All well and good to gently ask USPS to postmark the date. But what if there isn’t a postmark and it comes in a week afterward? Or a day after?

bolded above.

Just to be certain I understand because the rest of your post is not as clear: in order to be accepted, mail in ballots must have a USPS postmark of 11-3 or before; those with NO postmarks that arrive 11-4/after will not be accepted nor will those WITH postmarks of 11-4/after be accepted. Only those with postmarks of 11-3 or before will be accepted and those must arrive no later than 11-8.

(also, I wonder how easy it is for a USPS mail person to configure dates on a postmark machine...I am not sure but I'd sure like to know)

[foreverlax]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

All well and good to gently ask USPS to postmark the date. But what if there isn’t a postmark and it comes in a week afterward? Or a day after?

bolded above.

Just to be certain I understand because the rest of your post is not as clear: in order to be accepted, mail in ballots must have a USPS postmark of 11-3 or before; those with NO postmarks that arrive 11-4/after will not be accepted nor will those WITH postmarks of 11-4/after be accepted. Only those with postmarks of 11-3 or before will be accepted and those must arrive no later than 11-8.

(also, I wonder how easy it is for a USPS mail person to configure dates on a postmark machine...I am not sure but I'd sure like to know)

I'd agree with that....suspect the machine requires a password/employee ID.

[wgdsr]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

All well and good to gently ask USPS to postmark the date. But what if there isn’t a postmark and it comes in a week afterward? Or a day after?

bolded above.

Just to be certain I understand because the rest of your post is not as clear: in order to be accepted, mail in ballots must have a USPS postmark of 11-3 or before; those with NO postmarks that arrive 11-4/after will not be accepted nor will those WITH postmarks of 11-4/after be accepted. Only those with postmarks of 11-3 or before will be accepted and those must arrive no later than 11-8.

(also, I wonder how easy it is for a USPS mail person to configure dates on a postmark machine...I am not sure but I'd sure like to know)

no... everything 1 week before (10/whatever) is accepted no matter when it comes in. or the thursday before, choose a reasonable date where you'd expect the usps should have most of the mail in by election day. that detail is to align with their pa statute that mail ins prior to 2020 needed to be in by election day.

if there are delays in usps nowadays, that should be accounted for.

people if they miss that deadline can still mail in if they want to take a shot at getting it in by election day, as before. only fair. but if they arrive late and don't have a postmark by deadline either, they're not valid.

[njbill]

democrats in pa pushed for late ballot counts, including those without postmarks. i don't agree with either of those measures. can you imagine how many late ballots we might see in pa if it's tight?

This is incomplete. It is true that Democrats have advocated that ballots received after election day be counted, but not without restriction.

A Pennsylvania statute currently provides that ballots must be received by the close of polls on election day (8 p.m.). The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, due to Covid concerns, ruled that ballots postmarked by election day and received by Friday, November 6 are to be counted. Ballots without postmarks received by that date are also to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day.

The reason for the “no postmark” rule is that many envelopes these days don’t have a postmark date printed on them. Just look at your own mail.

The Republicans have appealed to the US Supreme Court. Judge Alito, who I assume is the Third Circuit justice, has told the Dems to respond by October 5.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Supremes rule that the strict state law must be enforced, that is, ballots received after election day aren’t to be counted. That would be wrong, in my view, because the state court should be permitted to interpret its own law. I’m not sure what the federal issue is here. Certainly it is not like the equal protection type of concerns raised in Bush v. Gore. (Note that a 4-4 tie would mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision is upheld.)

I think this is the first 2020 presidential election case that has made it to the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see how they resolve it.

It remains to be seen, of course, how many Pa. ballots are received after election day and whether they would tip the election in Pennsylvania. My guess is they won’t.

you clarified a no postmark question i had earlier. i just don't agree with the measure.

if i were king, judge and jury, it'd be:
deadline 4-5 business days before postmarked can come in at any time.

anything else needs to be in by election day.

sort and verify any number of days before you choose to know you'll get them done. count them any number of days before (i don't get anyone's fears on leaks there).

instructions to our postal service that their integrity is on the line to postmark anything that comes thru that looks remotely like a vote.

covid concerns are then in line with every other election year, with a nod to pa statute.

Pretty much agree with this.

I think the main problem we are having now is that states that have never heavily relied on mail in ballots are trying to come up with rules on the fly with both Covid and highly partisan political concerns really mucking up the process.

Have been pretty persuaded by ggait about the Colorado approach being the way to go. Unfortunately this year, with all the politics, some state legislatures and governors are having difficulty agreeing on a common set a reasonable rules.

One of the problems we are having in New Jersey is that clerks seem to be using old mail in ballot templates which don’t fit what is being done this year. Previously, New Jersey allowed no excuse mail in ballots, but you had to request them. This year, everyone is getting mail in ballots. No request is needed.

But some of the lingo from the old forms seems to have carried over inadvertently. I was just talking to my cousin who lives in a different county. He has gotten his ballot. I haven’t gotten mine. His ballot has a place to sign a certification that he had requested the ballot.

This is obviously a carryover from the former system. It is confusing because you don’t know whether to sign it (even though you didn’t request a ballot) or not (leaving something blank is also a possible concern).

Another problem is that the completion of mail in ballots is new to the large majority of New Jersey voters. I am sure after you do it a few times over a few years, it becomes second nature, but the safety measures, while laudable and necessary, also inject a layer of complication which can cause problems for some people.

[MDlaxfan76]

Question: As a voter, how do I assure myself that my mailed in ballot has been postmarked the day I sent it? Heck, how do I assure myself that it's been postmarked at all?

Should my vote not count because the USPS failed to postmark it?

Seems to me that whatever has worked for those states that have done large amounts of mail in voting should work for everyone else.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Question: As a voter, how do I assure myself that my mailed in ballot has been postmarked the day I sent it? Heck, how do I assure myself that it's been postmarked at all?

Should my vote not count because the USPS failed to postmark it?

Seems to me that whatever has worked for those states that have done large amounts of mail in voting should work for everyone else.

People in the federal government are aware of this.....it is the unwinding of a democracy.....minority party wants to stay in party....we are becoming The Philippines

The post office is no longer postmarking letters generally. Stamps with dot matrix codes on them are scanned at sorting and forwarding locations as they pass through the mailstream, and the postal service will know if the same stamp gets used twice. I.e., they are "electronically cancelled". This doesn't apply to older, "lick and stick" or self adhesive stamps that have no dot matrix codes. Because the latter are the minority in the mail now, they frequently don't get postmarked. They are risky for the post office due to possibility to reuse them, but newer stamps without dot matrix codes come apart in nlayers when you try to soak them off of envelopes - it becomes obvious that it is a re-used stamp. Older lick and stick stamps can be soaked and reused without detection, but the value of that activiity is so low it's not worth the post office effort to go after single incidents - they'll go after people making a business of it, but they don't even try to collect postage due anymore and mail sent with no stamps or with the "VOID" labels affixed (that read, "This block is not valid postage") that come out of vending machines in post office lobbies.

Those labels have a phosphorescent pink or clear stripes on them, and the USPS machines scan and read them and "think" they are regular postage. Five years ago, the machines blocked the stripe by overprinting it with black ink - but the post office turned that off, too.

Under current regulations, customers have a right to get a clear dated postmark. But now, after the advent of "IBI" (bar coded stamps) you have to ask at the postal counter for a hand postmark, to be certain that it happens. Metered mail is deemed postmarked when the stamp comes out of the meter machine. It has a date, except in the case of bulk mail which can be franked with meter labels that come out of the meter machine without a date. The date is presumed to be accurate, because the regulations require that someone renting a meter is to put the metered mail into the postal system to day the meter stamps are printed from the machine. Meter users can get a 1/2-cent or so discount for this, because they are saving the post office from having to do it. If a postal employee runs the metered mail through the cancelling machine, you may see a metered piece of mail with a regular postmark on top of it. All sorts of things can occur.

Up to a few years ago, the post office issued precanceled stamps that had preprinted bars across them, that bulk mailers could use en-masse to send large quantities of mail at a discount. They'd give these letters to their local post office, which would send them out without ever running them through the postmarking machine. That's another exception to the belief "everything is to be postmarked”

Widespread voter fraud is a myth. It is only one party that routinely uses it as a tactic to suppress the vote.

[njbill]

Question: As a voter, how do I assure myself that my mailed in ballot has been postmarked the day I sent it? Heck, how do I assure myself that it's been postmarked at all?

Should my vote not count because the USPS failed to postmark it?

Seems to me that whatever has worked for those states that have done large amounts of mail in voting should work for everyone else.

By going to a post office and not just putting it in a mailbox. Pretty sure that if you mail something at a post office when the post office is open, it will be postmarked that day.

But the other concern is whether, in this day and age, your envelope will get a postmark at all. Don’t know the answer as to why some envelopes do and some don’t. My seat of the pants impression from my own mail is that I only see postmarks these days on stuff mailed to me by individuals. Bills, junk mail don’t have postmarks.

Don’t know whether the post office puts postmarks on election mail.

No, I don’t think your ballot should be invalidated because the Postal Service didn’t put a postmark on it. I suspect that is the reason for the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling that ballots received by November 6 without postmarks are to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day. Now, how in the world are you going to prove a ballot was mailed after election day? Beats me.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Question: As a voter, how do I assure myself that my mailed in ballot has been postmarked the day I sent it? Heck, how do I assure myself that it's been postmarked at all?

Should my vote not count because the USPS failed to postmark it?

Seems to me that whatever has worked for those states that have done large amounts of mail in voting should work for everyone else.

By going to a post office and not just putting it in a mailbox. Pretty sure that if you mail something at a post office when the post office is open, it will be postmarked that day.

But the other concern is whether, in this day and age, your envelope will get a postmark at all. Don’t know the answer as to why some envelopes do and some don’t. My seat of the pants impression from my own mail is that I only see postmarks these days on stuff mailed to me by individuals. Bills, junk mail don’t have postmarks.

Don’t know whether the post office puts postmarks on election mail.

No, I don’t think your ballot should be invalidated because the Postal Service didn’t put a postmark on it. I suspect that is the reason for the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling that ballots received by November 6 without postmarks are to be counted unless there is evidence they were mailed after election day. Now, how in the world are you going to prove a ballot was mailed after election day? Beats me.

1-1.3 Postmarks

A postmark is an official Postal Service™ imprint applied in black ink on the address side of a stamped mailpiece. A postmark indicates the location and date the Postal Service accepted custody of a mailpiece, and it cancels affixed postage. Since 1979, the Postal Service’s Postal Operations Manual (POM) has provided standards for postmarks applied to single-piece First-Class Mail®. Letters and flats that need to be postmarked come from carrier pick-up, collection boxes, retail counters, or lobby drop boxes. Postmarks are not required for mailings bearing a permit, meter, or precanceled stamp for postage, nor to pieces with an indicia applied by various postage evidencing systems.

[ggait]

Any of these rules is perfectly fine from a fraud perspective. You just have to pick one and stick to it without any rat-forking partisan interference

The mailbox rule is fine and actually used for lots of situations. When I paid my quarterly taxes on 9/15, for example, the IRS didn't get my money on 9/15. I wrote a check and mailed it on 9/15. My payment is timely so long as there's a postmark 9/15. If I screw up and don't mail the check early enough in the day to get a postmark, that's on me. Works just fine.

What supposedly is going to be the fraud game under PA's mailbox rule?

A bunch of people don't vote on Tuesday. Then when they see the Joe is trailing, those people all rally to vote by mail in the wee hours of Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. Then, those late voters somehow have to bribe the postal workers in order to avoid application of postmarks. Or to get them to do backdated postmarks. How exactly could this be pulled off in volume? And if you're going to try this, why wouldn't you just do something to get those folks to just vote by Tuesday? Seems a LOT easier. Come one guys, its all partisan BS.

But the better rule is that your ballot has to be received by the election folks on election day. That how CO does it. Because we Coloradans don't tolerate rat-forking, the election officials (D, R and I) highly publicize the deadline rule as election day approaches. And we have TONS of drop boxes and drop sites and folks are encouraged to use them instead of the mail as Tuesday approaches. Lots of drive throughs open on Saturday and Sunday. And the good thing is that, for counting results, the election canvass ends on Tuesday and the results are available quickly (since we start counting early).

One drop box for all of Harris County/Houston? Seriously -- five forking million people live there!! But a rural county with five thousand people also gets one box? That's full on Banana Republican right there. And we all know it.