2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

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LandM
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by LandM »

MD,
Directing this your way based on the posts you have made in many threads. This too shall pass and is another day in the Trump drama - someone should keep a drama tally that others have created for how many lies he tells. I expect at least 1 drama a week from here to election day. The average voter already knew this and this like the Atlantic story will move on. You should go back and look at the deplorables who voted for BREXIT - they tossed the salad for the elites and "righteous" and that is what is happening here. Trump got caught with his pants down and instead of owning the fact that he does not pay taxes he lied about it and called it fake news so here we are again and yes the average voter already knows he lies. Wonder how many polls will now show what affect this one has on the voters - get ready. So everyone now has to worry about abortion, healthcare, who owns his debt, whether a sitting President can go to jail ad nauseum and that is just this week. I will admit I did not read the Times article but just reading the commentary out here is funny.

Quick question, you and your wife own a company. This is not to tag on you guys as I know your wife is very smart, capable and a Dartmouth grad (more on that at the end) BUT there are many companies that I know of and have invested in whereby the wife is the 50.1% shareholder yet the spouse or friend is the brains behind the operations. My walking partners wife had a very successful engineering company. It was started because her then employer was being passed over for government bids as they could not find quality minority owned businesses, welcome to government contracts. Her former employer set her up including her LLC and both did well. Do you consider that cheating? When my wife retired after 34 years with the NY State DOT she was fending off offers for the same. Perfectly legal.

Taxes. I do not know of any business or high net worth person that does not take full advantage of the tax laws and pays no taxes. I know private companies, family owned where thoroughbred horses, jockeys and trainers have been on the books and how about those Friday night dinners, drinks and good times with the spouse where business is mentioned once and there is the right off or how about those groceries for the family that used to wind up as T&E, cars, that is a field day same with mileage. Need a motorhome and football tickets (that was just changed) for business, no worries. You would have a field day with probably 90% of the privately held companies out there and I bet you could find some of the same with many public companies. The prison system is not big enough to hold all the riff raff.

Russia. Follow the money - please do. My guess is he burned so many bridges in the States that a commercial bank would not touch him or if they did, it was on rates and terms that were too expensive so he went overseas or to pension or hedge funds, or private debt finance companies. That drumbeat keeps getting old. The Hillary Clinton emails and Benghazi got old. There seem to be allot of hooks in the Constitution and in how the government works not to have found something already and yes the comparison to Hitler is over the top. The screeching comes from both sides but again, I have faith that the average voter already knows this and is probably getting tired of it. IMHO.

Finally, my wife made me do a 23 and me. I guess I have an adopted something as part of my family. No one has a clue about him but he reached out to me looking for some history, someone did something naughty :lol: . This is my wife's doing and she responded to him but ironically he is a Dartmouth grad :D
a fan
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by a fan »

LandM wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:52 am Trump got caught with his pants down and instead of owning the fact that he does not pay taxes he lied about it and called it fake news so here we are again and yes the average voter already knows he lies.
You must not know many TrumpFans that aren't 1%ers. They absolutely think he tells the truth, and everyone else (whatever that means) lies.

1%er TrumpFans? They're laughing all the way to the bank, and know PRECISELY what Trump is.

The average TrumpFan doesn't have enough self awareness to understand that the reason that they pay taxes, and the reason their government isn't functioning well at every level.... is staring at them in the face. Trump is the walking embodiment of why our government is falling apart.

He's not paying his share, and neither are his 1%er buddies. So Rome burns.

This isn't a footnote. This is the whole enchilada. If we paid personal income and corporate taxes at the same effective rate we did when your parents were around?

Our country would be flourishing, and we'd have no debt. It's absolutely heartbreaking watching 1%ers sell their nation down the river, all so they can cheat and make 10% more money that they don't need.

Hope your travels are safe and enjoyable, L&M!! Be careful out there!
Last edited by a fan on Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LandM
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by LandM »

afan,
Unfortunately many are my neighbors and friends. They will not admit their vote but you can tell. I think even if I had them strapped to a chair, lights in the eyes with a drill bit humming they would still deny.

I agree with your point on people paying their share. I will admit that my wife and I have taken full advantage of the tax laws but we have paid what we legally owe. I am sure that is a cop out but every time a new law comes into affect there is the gee whiz tax attorney or accountant that finds a new hole. I will also admit that I have not really looked at our taxes the past 10 years, my wife does. Our accountant signs them, my wife says ok and we sign them. Been audited twice, accountant went, we stayed home, no penalties. I am sure you and most out here know there is a cottage industry in this.
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

As expected, from the Editorial Board at WaPo:
Joe Biden for president
In order to expel the worst president of modern times, many voters might be willing to vote for almost anybody.

Fortunately, to oust President Trump in 2020, voters do not have to lower their standards. The Democratic nominee, former vice president Joe Biden, is exceptionally well-qualified, by character and experience, to meet the daunting challenges that the nation will face over the coming four years.

Those challenges have been, to varying degrees, created, exacerbated or neglected by the incumbent: the covid-19 pandemic, which has claimed more lives in this country than anywhere else in the world; rising inequality and racial disparities; a 21st-century, high-tech authoritarianism ascendant in the world, with democracy in retreat; a planet at risk due to human-caused climate change.

Underlying them all is the question of whether U.S. democracy is any longer capable of meeting even one such challenge, let alone a host of them. Here is where Mr. Trump has done the most damage — and where Mr. Biden is almost uniquely positioned for the moment. He would restore decency, honor and competence to America’s government.

In contrast to Mr. Trump’s narcissism, Mr. Biden is deeply empathetic; you can’t imagine him dismissing wounded or fallen soldiers as “losers.” To Mr. Trump’s cynicism, Mr. Biden brings faith — religious faith, yes, but also faith in American values and potential.

In place of Mr. Trump’s belittling and demonizing of opponents and allies alike, Mr. Biden offers a deep commitment to finding common ground in service to making government work for the greatest number. He has demonstrated that commitment in reaching across the aisle to Republicans, and also — most recently — in bringing unity to the Democratic Party without compromising his own fundamental convictions.

It is telling that when Sen. John McCain, a Republican, was awarded the Liberty Medal at the National Constitution Center in 2017, the year before his death, he asked Mr. Biden to make the presentation. On that occasion, McCain recalled their service together in the Senate, where Mr. Biden built a record of accomplishment as chair of the Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) shakes hands with former vice president Joe Biden after receiving the Liberty Medal in Philadelphia on Oct. 16, 2017. (Matt Rourke/AP)

“We didn’t always agree on the issues,” McCain said. “We often argued — sometimes passionately. But we believed in each other’s patriotism and the sincerity of each other’s convictions.…

“We believed in our mutual responsibility to help make the place work and to cooperate in finding solutions to our country’s problems,” McCain continued. “We believed in our country and in our country’s indispensability to international peace and stability, and to the progress of humanity.”

Mr. Trump’s negative example has demonstrated how essential in a president are decency, empathy and respect for other human beings. Mr. Biden brings deep reservoirs of each.

But those qualities are not sufficient. A president also needs toughness, governing experience and good judgment.

Does Mr. Biden have what it takes? This year’s campaign offers telling evidence.

Mr. Biden took on some 20 aspirants, many of them considered to be rising stars. To considerable chatter about his past failed campaigns, he finished fourth in Iowa and fifth in New Hampshire. He had almost no campaign money, little staff and, if you believed many of the pundits, no chance.

Mr. Biden didn’t believe the pundits. He stuck to his game plan, took his fight to South Carolina and won — there, and then almost everywhere on Super Tuesday. In defeating Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), he showed that the party hadn’t moved as far left as some were saying — and as Mr. Trump continues, baselessly, to allege.

Mr. Biden then oversaw a vice-presidential selection process that was free of leaks and unnecessary drama. He chose as partner the woman who, after the fact, almost everyone agreed was the most qualified, Sen. Kamala D. Harris of California. In setting aside her stinging attacks on him during the primary contest, Mr. Biden showed that he will govern based on merit, not grudge.

All of that bodes well for a Biden presidency, but obviously voters do not have to judge by this year’s performance alone. Mr. Biden’s well of experience is far deeper.

If he takes the oath in the midst of the pandemic’s second wave, as is quite possible, with the economy in a tailspin, we can be confident Mr. Biden will rise to the occasion. Why? Because when President Barack Obama and he took office in 2009, the nation was in a similarly frightening tailspin. Mr. Obama trusted his vice president to work with Congress to deliver a bipartisan recovery package and then to help administer it, helping save America’s auto industry and the economy more broadly.

Mr. Biden’s competence and honor are more important in this cycle than any particular stand on any particular issue.

But on the issues, too, Mr. Biden offers the nation a welcome, positive vision. It is a vision that refutes both Mr. Trump’s preposterous slander of Mr. Biden as a “socialist” and the fears of some on the left that Mr. Biden is aiming only at a restoration of the pre-Trump status quo.

The slander is not surprising. Mr. Trump — with few accomplishments in his first term and no agenda for his second — was bound to run a negative, dishonest campaign. But in fact Mr. Biden has not succumbed to the wishes of the far left of his party.

At the same time, the world is very different today than it was in 2008 — the challenge from China sharper, the menace of climate change more imminent — and Mr. Biden has shaped his agenda accordingly.
President Barack Obama speaks alongside Vice President Joe Biden at the State Department in January 2009. (SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images)

On climate change, where Mr. Trump denigrates scientists and dismisses warnings about a grave threat to humanity, just as he did with covid-19, Mr. Biden understands that no issue is more fundamental to the long-term prosperity of the nation or the world.

He would make it a priority of his administration. Yet, resisting more strident voices on the left, he has declined to use the climate emergency to justify massive, unrelated programs, such as universal federal job guarantees or single-payer health care. Instead, he offers a credible plan for the right goal — making the country carbon-neutral by mid-century.

Mr. Biden similarly has shaped an ambitious and reform-minded criminal justice agenda for today’s world. He would set minimum standards for use of force and condition federal funding on meaningful police reforms. His proposed $20 billion competitive grant program would incentivize states and localities to shift dollars from incarceration to crime prevention.

Far from embracing socialism, Mr. Biden would better position the United States as a capitalist competitor to China. He would do so by rolling back the least defensible of Mr. Trump’s upwardly skewed tax cuts and investing more in education and research; cooperating on trade with allies, rather than spraying tariffs at South Korea, Europe and Canada; and once again making the United States a welcoming destination for the brightest scientists and potential entrepreneurs around the world.

On foreign policy, Mr. Biden offers an enormously positive change from the Trump administration, simply by promising to rebuild long-standing U.S. alliances and the global leadership that Mr. Trump has willfully disrupted.

Mr. Biden rightly observes that the struggle “of democracy and liberalism” to defeat “fascism and autocracy” is not over, but “will define our future.” “Democracy” he has written, “is under more pressure than at any time since the 1930s” — and Mr. Trump “seems to be on the other team, taking the word of autocrats while showing disdain for democrats.” Mr. Biden would convene a “Summit for Democracy” to unite democracies in “fighting corruption, defending against authoritarianism and advancing human rights.” He would rebuild relations with NATO countries and help them stiffen defenses against Russia. He would end Mr. Trump’s appeasement of Russian President Vladimir Putin and coddling of Arab dictatorships such as Saudi Arabia.

Mr. Biden has a sober view of American power and its limitations; like Mr. Trump he speaks of stopping “endless wars” and bringing U.S. military forces home from the Middle East. But Mr. Biden rejects Mr. Trump’s self-defeating “America first” principle and would return to tackling global challenges in partnership with other nations. He would rejoin the Paris accord on climate change and seek to revive the nuclear deal with Iran. He would reverse Mr. Trump’s senseless withdrawal from the World Health Organization, and commit the United States to multilateral efforts to combat the coronavirus pandemic.

That fundamental difference of approach may be most important when it comes to China, which is likely to pose the biggest foreign policy challenge of the coming years. Both Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump promise to “get tough” with Beijing and to combat its mercantilism, thefts of technology and expansive claims in the South China Sea. However, Mr. Biden’s approach would be values-based, not erratic and transactional. He would work with allies to confront China’s abusive behaviors while seeking cooperation where interests converge, such as on climate change and health security.
Vice President Joe Biden and Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping talk at the White House on Feb. 14, 2012. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Mr. Biden’s foreign policy offers insight into his technology policy as well: He would stand up for this country’s belief in freedom and openness against the Chinese brand of surveillance authoritarianism, and he would fight to purge foreign interference by Russia and others in elections rather than deny such interference exists. Mr. Biden promises to take a tougher line on so-called Big Tech in antitrust enforcement than his predecessor — but he would do so based on law and evidence, not whim and favoritism.

Democracy is at risk, at home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; acknowledge Congress’s constitutional role; and work for the public good, not his private benefit.

Just as desperately, it needs a president with the know-how and experience to show that values and results can go together.

It is fortunate to have, in Joe Biden, a candidate who can lead an administration that is both honorable and successful.
LandM
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by LandM »

aFan,
I just read your last note - thank you. We were heading out your way in October but someone rented the house from late Oct to December 7th so we will be in Telluride in January until May. Driving with the two hairy kids - upgraded the home on wheels to a freaking bus with sliders. The thing is bigger then my first apartment not sure how we will get up some of the passes - will stop by and find you on the way. BTW, we get the tax write-off associated with that so our accountant told us to finance it - do I agree with that - nope - but we did.

Thanks for all you guys did with the hand sanitizing and glad you guys are doing well. You all be safe and hope to meet you in January.
Best
a fan
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by a fan »

LandM wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:30 pm I agree with your point on people paying their share. I will admit that my wife and I have taken full advantage of the tax laws but we have paid what we legally owe. I am sure that is a cop out but every time a new law comes into affect there is the gee whiz tax attorney or accountant that finds a new hole. I will also admit that I have not really looked at our taxes the past 10 years, my wife does. Our accountant signs them, my wife says ok and we sign them. Been audited twice, accountant went, we stayed home, no penalties. I am sure you and most out here know there is a cottage industry in this.
And I appreciate your intellectual honesty here....something that's in short supply these days. Thank you.

My family is on the other side. Because we own property, a mature business, and are in manufacturing and therefore get hit with obscene property tax.....we're paying full freight. Then add in all the excise taxes at the Federal and State level? It's pretty bad.

But-------But? This is a price I'm happy to pay to keep roads paved, books in schools like Pete's U of Florida, and our troops in protective gear.
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

“...he showed that the party hadn’t moved as far left as some were saying — and as Mr. Trump continues, baselessly, to allege”

:lol: :lol:


Nah. Not far left.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/politics ... index.html

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Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

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njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:28 am But we have not seen from what I have read either his 2018 or 2019 tax return, and perhaps they do show just that: a high rate of tax.
I doubt he has filed his 2019 return yet. With the automatic six month extension, it is not due yet.

Agree we haven’t heard any reporting about the 2018 return, but I suspect it will look pretty similar to the 2017 return.
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

PB is flailing again.

Throwing sh!t on the wall to see what sticks.
‘All in’ for Trump: These White men, the strongest Trump supporters, say they can’t be swayed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
The parade of boats was decked out in flags and banners screaming support for President Trump, led by a barge that had been used in previous summers for bikini-tops-optional parties on Sandusky Bay but was now laden with 10 cannons and a crane holding up a 22-by-15-foot American flag. It flapped in the wind as the cannons fired.

There were motorcycles and pickup trucks on the shore, and an antique military plane in the sky. Trump flags seemed to far outnumber American ones; at least one Confederate flag flew among them. The dozen or so men firing the cannons wore red hats embroidered with Trump’s name and praise for the president. They shouted strings of excited obscenities as they marveled at the hundreds of boats behind them.

“There are still people coming to get into the parade!” exclaimed Shaun Bickley, 54, the barge owner who organized the parade and would later change into a black tank top with “Trump 2020” and an expletive written around an American flag-patterned skull. “Man, do you see all of these people?”

“Act like we’re being fired on!” yelled Jeff Karr, 59, who dropped out of high school to join the Ohio National Guard and spent 36 years in the military, including the Army Reserve, with two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Another volley of explosions sounded.

Blue-collar men such as Bickley, Karr and their buddies on the barge are the core of Trump’s base of support, and their enthusiasm for the president has only deepened since they first voted for him, even as Trump has driven away some voters, especially college graduates and women. As illustrated by the masculinity-oozing boat parade, the Trump Party is largely a party of men — especially White men without college degrees and especially those over the age of 40.

A majority of White men have long sided with Republican presidential nominees, and they voted for Trump at about the same rates as in previous years, according to exit polls — but Trump won the votes of White men without college degrees by the highest rate in at least 36 years, or as long as comparable exit polling has existed. Four years into a tumultuous presidency, these men consistently give the president his highest approval ratings, and polls show they’re happier with the economy and the direction of the country than White women or voters of color.

Their connection with Trump is cultural and emotional as much as political, closely intertwined with their lives and identities. His enemies are their enemies, his grievances are their grievances. They live by the rules he lives by: that concepts such as White male privilege or structural racism and sexism are to be scoffed at, that the working class, Christians and Trump supporters have been victimized, that it’s okay to be moved to tears by a love for the country and its president but that liberals are crybabies and snowflakes. They pride themselves on being self-made and see Trump, whose life has been nothing like their own, as a once-in-a-lifetime leader.

Bickley, who owns two marinas and a shoreline construction company, gets frustrated by the suggestion that White men such as him were born more powerful, or with advantages.

“There’s 8 billion of us on the planet. There’s only 780 million White people. . . . So I’m personally really tired of hearing that I’m a majority, that I’m a superpower White privilege kid,” Bickley said. “My mom and dad had nothing. . . . I have been working my whole life.

“Now, here I am, 54, and I’ve got a lot of stuff. . . . Somebody says: ‘Look at all of this stuff you have, you must have been privileged.’ Oh, really? Really? I’ve been working since I was 10.”

Bickley says that while he’s now “on the top of the food chain,” he remembers the years he spent as a lowly worker, helping make other people millions of dollars. He thinks Trump has that same mentality. Trump’s strategy for winning reelection relies on finding more White men who support him but didn’t vote in 2016, as well as pulling in more votes from Black and Latino men.

“The people who love Trump can’t be swayed by anything,” Bickley said. “If you love Trump, you’re all in. There’s nobody on the fence. You’re in.”

Those on the barge on the Saturday before Labor Day are labeled as “White working-class men” by journalists, political strategists and university researchers — people in professions that some of these Ohio men don’t consider real work, as they define it: the sort that’s physical and might get your hands dirty. That’s the work most of them have been doing since they were children and will continue to do until they die.
AD

Many have done well for themselves without a college diploma, and they’re living a version of the American Dream that involves owning a boat and a truck to haul it.

Bickley has deep experience organizing large events on the water. For many summers, he hosted the Sandusky Bay Barge Party, which featured live music and bikini-clad women dancing around stripper poles. Bickley likes to circulate a video compilation of women’s jiggling bodies from these parties, set to an off-color song.

He lost his enthusiasm for it in 2015 when his father — a Navy veteran, former police officer and Democrat — died. He started paying attention to the Republican presidential primary and gleefully watched as Trump trounced established politicians — especially former Florida governor Jeb Bush.

“So in typical Bickley fashion, I started liking Trump a lot,” he said.

For much of his life, Bickley was an independent, although he mostly voted for Republicans, even during the decade that he worked at a quarry and was involved with a union. He’s staunchly conservative on nearly all issues except for those related to the environment, on which he’s aligned with liberals, worried about factory pollution and the health of the nation’s waterways. This is one area where he says he hasn’t studied Trump’s record.

Bickley loves that Trump puts “America first,” especially when that offends the educated elites. He supports building a wall along the southern border and forcing immigrants who arrive legally to learn English. And he agrees with Trump “constantly backing our men and women in blue,” although he says he has had a few run-ins with law enforcement himself.

Someone on Facebook recently suggested that Trump hasn’t accomplished much and Bickley responded, in part: “46 days away to your absolute pain. Perhaps you could stick a red hot fork in your eye. Or better yet, cut off your little buddy in despair.”

Even as Bickley’s businesses have prospered, he still considers himself blue-collar. He recently added an image of Trump’s profile to the window of the back seat of his white SUV, so that it looks as if he is chauffeuring the president around town.

“Sometimes my wife will be like: ‘More attention? You just need more attention, Shaun?’ ” he said of his wife of 31 years.

There was something about Trump that transcended both political parties — which is also a big reason Karr voted for him after voting for Barack Obama in 2008 and Ron Paul in 2012.

Karr retired from the Army a few years ago, disgusted with most politicians, military leaders, government contractors and federal workers, who he said put their pursuit of wealth and power above all else, including keeping their word. For years, he has struggled with serious digestive issues that he believes were caused by burn pits in the Middle East, and he was frustrated by Veterans Affairs doctors who seemed unable to accurately diagnose him or ease his pain.

Sometimes, he said, he feels as if the United States has become a nation of victims, even when they’re not — a feeling that has become especially strong amid protests over racial inequality.

“These guys that say: ‘We didn’t get a chance,’ ” he said. “No, you didn’t take a chance.”

Karr says that racism should not be tolerated, but that he doesn’t think the nation’s problems are as bad as the media claims. Slavery was terrible, Karr said, “but that was then and this is now, and we can’t go in a negative direction.”

Trump and Biden have squabbled over who could best serve blue-collar workers, but Bickley and Karr rolled their eyes at the notion that Biden understands them. As they see it, Biden has spent his entire career in elective office with a generous salary, posh benefits and opportunities to become wealthy. Trump is right to call him weak, they said. Although Trump was born into a wealthy family, they see him as someone who knows how to build a business and understands the pressure of trying to make payroll.

Bickley said he feels bad that Biden’s son Beau died of cancer. As a father of three, he can’t imagine the pain of losing a child. But he’s taken aback that Biden has used that pain “as a political crutch.” He assumes campaign staffers suggested doing so.

“He should have punched them in the mouth and said: ‘No, we’re not going there. That’s painful,’ ” Bickley said.

Amy F. Grubbe, the chairwoman of the Democratic Party for Erie County, where Sandusky is located, says her volunteers don’t even bother trying to win over the men who voted for Trump in 2016.

“People tend to go down with the ship. . . . That hardcore group, they’re going to be flying Trump flags at their funerals 30 years from now,” said Rep. Tim Ryan (D), whose eastern Ohio district is heavily blue-collar. While Ryan said he is confident Biden will win Ohio, he has little hope of converting Trump’s strongest supporters. “They’re all in with him, and there’s no way to change their minds.”

The issues Trump has chosen to highlight are, like his cultural positions, attractive to his White male supporters. His focus on law and order, seen by many as a way to scare some suburban women and seniors into voting for him, has also excited and rallied the men who already love him and are willing to follow him anywhere, including into an actual battle.

“We’ll grab my AR and head for Washington and join the police force if they think they’re going to riot and destroy Washington — not under my watch. I will die shoulder-to-shoulder with the cops,” said Karr, the veteran who has three grown sons. “There ain’t no way I am going to accept lawlessness in this country.”

He and Bickley say Trump is right to refuse to accept any blame for the coronavirus pandemic and the nation’s resulting economic problems. Yes, people are getting sick, they said, but they do not believe the death toll is really as high as some claim.

Bickley and Karr blame the pandemic on China and credit Trump for blocking many foreign travelers from China and other countries. Bickley says he spent thousands of dollars stocking up on food and protective gear. When Trump touted the lifesaving potential of hydroxychloroquine, Bickley ordered 90 pills online, along with a bunch of Z-Paks and some zinc pills, also touted by the president. Although federal health officials have strongly warned against using the medications to treat covid-19, especially without the oversight of doctors, Bickley is confident that they work.

“I’m not letting anybody on my team die,” he said.

Karr nodded and added: “He’s a friend who cares.”

“I’m a friend who can get [stuff],” Bickley said with a laugh.

In July, Bickley’s 32-year-old son-in-law became sick and tested positive for the novel coronavirus. Soon his 27-year-old daughter was also sick. Bickley offered them the medication, but they declined, suggesting that it was “quack science.” The two quickly recovered, he said.

At the boat parade, those on the barge wore headphones or earplugs to protect their hearing against the cannon blasts, but they did not wear masks.

Two weeks after the parade, Bickley was invited by the Trump campaign to sit in the bleachers directly behind the president as he spoke at a rally in Swanton, Ohio, just outside of Toledo. He brought along Karr and some others and wore jeans with rhinestones on the pockets and ostrich skin boots. Because they would be in view of television cameras, the campaign asked the group to put on masks. Most of the thousands who gathered outside did not.

As Trump took the stage and marveled at the sprawling crowd before him, Bickley and Karr did the same. Trump assured the crowd that polls showing a tight race in Ohio were “fake,” which is exactly what Bickley and Karr have been telling people. Trump debated aloud if he should nominate a woman to the Supreme Court or a man, as he did with his first two nominations — the sort of joke that Bickley and Karr say the media always takes too seriously.

“I don’t want to make the men too angry,” Trump said as the crowd laughed. “It will be a woman. Is that okay? I don’t want to have a problem with men.”

Trump gave himself credit for saving millions of lives and tens of millions of jobs amid the pandemic. He promised to continue to build up the military, the power of which he said he’s not afraid to use on American soil. He told the crowd that he is “the only thing standing between you and chaos,” and he warned “suburban men and husbands” that if Biden is elected, “you’re not going to have your dream very much longer.”

Trump left the stage to the recorded sounds of the Village People telling men everywhere that “there’s no need to feel down . . . there’s no need to be unhappy.”

Bickley said afterward that the sound system near their group wasn’t working properly, so they couldn’t always understand what Trump was saying. But they applauded anyway.

“We could see what he saw. We could feel what he felt. We could see the laughter and the joy and the excitement,” Bickley said of their front-row seats. “So the couple times I couldn’t hear him, that was okay; I knew I was supposed to clap. I don’t know what I was clapping about, but I clapped.”
wgdsr
Posts: 10011
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by wgdsr »

saw a while back in pa that their primary voting went from a typical low 40s number to high 50s. a couple things:
- that is a monster jump
- it is one data point

i'm turrible at predictions but i'll make them anyway based on this one data point:
- roll all the cacophony in
- covid 19 and the free time
- suspicions of the counters and the delivery of a newly expanded mail in system in many places

predictions:
- mail in may not be as high as some voting precincts and state hierarchy predict
- in person voting stations are downsized? i don't know if this is in the works universally, but may be
- a huge surge in voting in battleground states at least
- finally, from above... yuge lines at the physical ballot box. i mean, yuge. do people wait 2, 4, 5 hours?
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34257
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“I wish you would!”
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by 6ftstick »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:12 pm
LandM wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:52 am Trump got caught with his pants down and instead of owning the fact that he does not pay taxes he lied about it and called it fake news so here we are again and yes the average voter already knows he lies.
You must not know many TrumpFans that aren't 1%ers. They absolutely think he tells the truth, and everyone else (whatever that means) lies.

1%er TrumpFans? They're laughing all the way to the bank, and know PRECISELY what Trump is.

The average TrumpFan doesn't have enough self awareness to understand that the reason that they pay taxes, and the reason their government isn't functioning well at every level.... is staring at them in the face. Trump is the walking embodiment of why our government is falling apart.

He's not paying his share, and neither are his 1%er buddies. So Rome burns.

This isn't a footnote. This is the whole enchilada. If we paid personal income and corporate taxes at the same effective rate we did when your parents were around?

Our country would be flourishing, and we'd have no debt. It's absolutely heartbreaking watching 1%ers sell their nation down the river, all so they can cheat and make 10% more money that they don't need.

Hope your travels are safe and enjoyable, L&M!! Be careful out there!
In 2018, the top 1% of U.S. earners paid roughly 37% of all federal income taxes.

The top 5% paid around 58%.

that's on the US government's Bureau of Economic Analysis for 2019 estimates $7.3 trillion in total government expenditures.
Last edited by 6ftstick on Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by seacoaster »

RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:03 pm PB is flailing again.

Throwing sh!t on the wall to see what sticks.
‘All in’ for Trump: These White men, the strongest Trump supporters, say they can’t be swayed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
The parade of boats was decked out in flags and banners screaming support for President Trump, led by a barge that had been used in previous summers for bikini-tops-optional parties on Sandusky Bay but was now laden with 10 cannons and a crane holding up a 22-by-15-foot American flag. It flapped in the wind as the cannons fired.

There were motorcycles and pickup trucks on the shore, and an antique military plane in the sky. Trump flags seemed to far outnumber American ones; at least one Confederate flag flew among them. The dozen or so men firing the cannons wore red hats embroidered with Trump’s name and praise for the president. They shouted strings of excited obscenities as they marveled at the hundreds of boats behind them.

“There are still people coming to get into the parade!” exclaimed Shaun Bickley, 54, the barge owner who organized the parade and would later change into a black tank top with “Trump 2020” and an expletive written around an American flag-patterned skull. “Man, do you see all of these people?”

“Act like we’re being fired on!” yelled Jeff Karr, 59, who dropped out of high school to join the Ohio National Guard and spent 36 years in the military, including the Army Reserve, with two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Another volley of explosions sounded.

Blue-collar men such as Bickley, Karr and their buddies on the barge are the core of Trump’s base of support, and their enthusiasm for the president has only deepened since they first voted for him, even as Trump has driven away some voters, especially college graduates and women. As illustrated by the masculinity-oozing boat parade, the Trump Party is largely a party of men — especially White men without college degrees and especially those over the age of 40.

A majority of White men have long sided with Republican presidential nominees, and they voted for Trump at about the same rates as in previous years, according to exit polls — but Trump won the votes of White men without college degrees by the highest rate in at least 36 years, or as long as comparable exit polling has existed. Four years into a tumultuous presidency, these men consistently give the president his highest approval ratings, and polls show they’re happier with the economy and the direction of the country than White women or voters of color.

Their connection with Trump is cultural and emotional as much as political, closely intertwined with their lives and identities. His enemies are their enemies, his grievances are their grievances. They live by the rules he lives by: that concepts such as White male privilege or structural racism and sexism are to be scoffed at, that the working class, Christians and Trump supporters have been victimized, that it’s okay to be moved to tears by a love for the country and its president but that liberals are crybabies and snowflakes. They pride themselves on being self-made and see Trump, whose life has been nothing like their own, as a once-in-a-lifetime leader.

Bickley, who owns two marinas and a shoreline construction company, gets frustrated by the suggestion that White men such as him were born more powerful, or with advantages.

“There’s 8 billion of us on the planet. There’s only 780 million White people. . . . So I’m personally really tired of hearing that I’m a majority, that I’m a superpower White privilege kid,” Bickley said. “My mom and dad had nothing. . . . I have been working my whole life.

“Now, here I am, 54, and I’ve got a lot of stuff. . . . Somebody says: ‘Look at all of this stuff you have, you must have been privileged.’ Oh, really? Really? I’ve been working since I was 10.”

Bickley says that while he’s now “on the top of the food chain,” he remembers the years he spent as a lowly worker, helping make other people millions of dollars. He thinks Trump has that same mentality. Trump’s strategy for winning reelection relies on finding more White men who support him but didn’t vote in 2016, as well as pulling in more votes from Black and Latino men.

“The people who love Trump can’t be swayed by anything,” Bickley said. “If you love Trump, you’re all in. There’s nobody on the fence. You’re in.”

Those on the barge on the Saturday before Labor Day are labeled as “White working-class men” by journalists, political strategists and university researchers — people in professions that some of these Ohio men don’t consider real work, as they define it: the sort that’s physical and might get your hands dirty. That’s the work most of them have been doing since they were children and will continue to do until they die.
AD

Many have done well for themselves without a college diploma, and they’re living a version of the American Dream that involves owning a boat and a truck to haul it.

Bickley has deep experience organizing large events on the water. For many summers, he hosted the Sandusky Bay Barge Party, which featured live music and bikini-clad women dancing around stripper poles. Bickley likes to circulate a video compilation of women’s jiggling bodies from these parties, set to an off-color song.

He lost his enthusiasm for it in 2015 when his father — a Navy veteran, former police officer and Democrat — died. He started paying attention to the Republican presidential primary and gleefully watched as Trump trounced established politicians — especially former Florida governor Jeb Bush.

“So in typical Bickley fashion, I started liking Trump a lot,” he said.

For much of his life, Bickley was an independent, although he mostly voted for Republicans, even during the decade that he worked at a quarry and was involved with a union. He’s staunchly conservative on nearly all issues except for those related to the environment, on which he’s aligned with liberals, worried about factory pollution and the health of the nation’s waterways. This is one area where he says he hasn’t studied Trump’s record.

Bickley loves that Trump puts “America first,” especially when that offends the educated elites. He supports building a wall along the southern border and forcing immigrants who arrive legally to learn English. And he agrees with Trump “constantly backing our men and women in blue,” although he says he has had a few run-ins with law enforcement himself.

Someone on Facebook recently suggested that Trump hasn’t accomplished much and Bickley responded, in part: “46 days away to your absolute pain. Perhaps you could stick a red hot fork in your eye. Or better yet, cut off your little buddy in despair.”

Even as Bickley’s businesses have prospered, he still considers himself blue-collar. He recently added an image of Trump’s profile to the window of the back seat of his white SUV, so that it looks as if he is chauffeuring the president around town.

“Sometimes my wife will be like: ‘More attention? You just need more attention, Shaun?’ ” he said of his wife of 31 years.

There was something about Trump that transcended both political parties — which is also a big reason Karr voted for him after voting for Barack Obama in 2008 and Ron Paul in 2012.

Karr retired from the Army a few years ago, disgusted with most politicians, military leaders, government contractors and federal workers, who he said put their pursuit of wealth and power above all else, including keeping their word. For years, he has struggled with serious digestive issues that he believes were caused by burn pits in the Middle East, and he was frustrated by Veterans Affairs doctors who seemed unable to accurately diagnose him or ease his pain.

Sometimes, he said, he feels as if the United States has become a nation of victims, even when they’re not — a feeling that has become especially strong amid protests over racial inequality.

“These guys that say: ‘We didn’t get a chance,’ ” he said. “No, you didn’t take a chance.”

Karr says that racism should not be tolerated, but that he doesn’t think the nation’s problems are as bad as the media claims. Slavery was terrible, Karr said, “but that was then and this is now, and we can’t go in a negative direction.”

Trump and Biden have squabbled over who could best serve blue-collar workers, but Bickley and Karr rolled their eyes at the notion that Biden understands them. As they see it, Biden has spent his entire career in elective office with a generous salary, posh benefits and opportunities to become wealthy. Trump is right to call him weak, they said. Although Trump was born into a wealthy family, they see him as someone who knows how to build a business and understands the pressure of trying to make payroll.

Bickley said he feels bad that Biden’s son Beau died of cancer. As a father of three, he can’t imagine the pain of losing a child. But he’s taken aback that Biden has used that pain “as a political crutch.” He assumes campaign staffers suggested doing so.

“He should have punched them in the mouth and said: ‘No, we’re not going there. That’s painful,’ ” Bickley said.

Amy F. Grubbe, the chairwoman of the Democratic Party for Erie County, where Sandusky is located, says her volunteers don’t even bother trying to win over the men who voted for Trump in 2016.

“People tend to go down with the ship. . . . That hardcore group, they’re going to be flying Trump flags at their funerals 30 years from now,” said Rep. Tim Ryan (D), whose eastern Ohio district is heavily blue-collar. While Ryan said he is confident Biden will win Ohio, he has little hope of converting Trump’s strongest supporters. “They’re all in with him, and there’s no way to change their minds.”

The issues Trump has chosen to highlight are, like his cultural positions, attractive to his White male supporters. His focus on law and order, seen by many as a way to scare some suburban women and seniors into voting for him, has also excited and rallied the men who already love him and are willing to follow him anywhere, including into an actual battle.

“We’ll grab my AR and head for Washington and join the police force if they think they’re going to riot and destroy Washington — not under my watch. I will die shoulder-to-shoulder with the cops,” said Karr, the veteran who has three grown sons. “There ain’t no way I am going to accept lawlessness in this country.”

He and Bickley say Trump is right to refuse to accept any blame for the coronavirus pandemic and the nation’s resulting economic problems. Yes, people are getting sick, they said, but they do not believe the death toll is really as high as some claim.

Bickley and Karr blame the pandemic on China and credit Trump for blocking many foreign travelers from China and other countries. Bickley says he spent thousands of dollars stocking up on food and protective gear. When Trump touted the lifesaving potential of hydroxychloroquine, Bickley ordered 90 pills online, along with a bunch of Z-Paks and some zinc pills, also touted by the president. Although federal health officials have strongly warned against using the medications to treat covid-19, especially without the oversight of doctors, Bickley is confident that they work.

“I’m not letting anybody on my team die,” he said.

Karr nodded and added: “He’s a friend who cares.”

“I’m a friend who can get [stuff],” Bickley said with a laugh.

In July, Bickley’s 32-year-old son-in-law became sick and tested positive for the novel coronavirus. Soon his 27-year-old daughter was also sick. Bickley offered them the medication, but they declined, suggesting that it was “quack science.” The two quickly recovered, he said.

At the boat parade, those on the barge wore headphones or earplugs to protect their hearing against the cannon blasts, but they did not wear masks.

Two weeks after the parade, Bickley was invited by the Trump campaign to sit in the bleachers directly behind the president as he spoke at a rally in Swanton, Ohio, just outside of Toledo. He brought along Karr and some others and wore jeans with rhinestones on the pockets and ostrich skin boots. Because they would be in view of television cameras, the campaign asked the group to put on masks. Most of the thousands who gathered outside did not.

As Trump took the stage and marveled at the sprawling crowd before him, Bickley and Karr did the same. Trump assured the crowd that polls showing a tight race in Ohio were “fake,” which is exactly what Bickley and Karr have been telling people. Trump debated aloud if he should nominate a woman to the Supreme Court or a man, as he did with his first two nominations — the sort of joke that Bickley and Karr say the media always takes too seriously.

“I don’t want to make the men too angry,” Trump said as the crowd laughed. “It will be a woman. Is that okay? I don’t want to have a problem with men.”

Trump gave himself credit for saving millions of lives and tens of millions of jobs amid the pandemic. He promised to continue to build up the military, the power of which he said he’s not afraid to use on American soil. He told the crowd that he is “the only thing standing between you and chaos,” and he warned “suburban men and husbands” that if Biden is elected, “you’re not going to have your dream very much longer.”

Trump left the stage to the recorded sounds of the Village People telling men everywhere that “there’s no need to feel down . . . there’s no need to be unhappy.”

Bickley said afterward that the sound system near their group wasn’t working properly, so they couldn’t always understand what Trump was saying. But they applauded anyway.

“We could see what he saw. We could feel what he felt. We could see the laughter and the joy and the excitement,” Bickley said of their front-row seats. “So the couple times I couldn’t hear him, that was okay; I knew I was supposed to clap. I don’t know what I was clapping about, but I clapped.”
Kind of sounds like a cult. Not a lot of policy discussed, at least in the article. This may be my favorite line: "Bickley said afterward that the sound system near their group wasn’t working properly, so they couldn’t always understand what Trump was saying. But they applauded anyway."
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by 6ftstick »

Why are you still posting tomes of anti trump blah blah blah when he's not going to win reelection according to the polls.
njbill
Posts: 7527
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:03 pm PB is flailing again.

Throwing sh!t on the wall to see what sticks.
‘All in’ for Trump: These White men, the strongest Trump supporters, say they can’t be swayed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
The parade of boats was decked out in flags and banners screaming support for President Trump, led by a barge that had been used in previous summers for bikini-tops-optional parties on Sandusky Bay but was now laden with 10 cannons and a crane holding up a 22-by-15-foot American flag. It flapped in the wind as the cannons fired.

There were motorcycles and pickup trucks on the shore, and an antique military plane in the sky. Trump flags seemed to far outnumber American ones; at least one Confederate flag flew among them. The dozen or so men firing the cannons wore red hats embroidered with Trump’s name and praise for the president. They shouted strings of excited obscenities as they marveled at the hundreds of boats behind them.

“There are still people coming to get into the parade!” exclaimed Shaun Bickley, 54, the barge owner who organized the parade and would later change into a black tank top with “Trump 2020” and an expletive written around an American flag-patterned skull. “Man, do you see all of these people?”

“Act like we’re being fired on!” yelled Jeff Karr, 59, who dropped out of high school to join the Ohio National Guard and spent 36 years in the military, including the Army Reserve, with two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Another volley of explosions sounded.

Blue-collar men such as Bickley, Karr and their buddies on the barge are the core of Trump’s base of support, and their enthusiasm for the president has only deepened since they first voted for him, even as Trump has driven away some voters, especially college graduates and women. As illustrated by the masculinity-oozing boat parade, the Trump Party is largely a party of men — especially White men without college degrees and especially those over the age of 40.

A majority of White men have long sided with Republican presidential nominees, and they voted for Trump at about the same rates as in previous years, according to exit polls — but Trump won the votes of White men without college degrees by the highest rate in at least 36 years, or as long as comparable exit polling has existed. Four years into a tumultuous presidency, these men consistently give the president his highest approval ratings, and polls show they’re happier with the economy and the direction of the country than White women or voters of color.

Their connection with Trump is cultural and emotional as much as political, closely intertwined with their lives and identities. His enemies are their enemies, his grievances are their grievances. They live by the rules he lives by: that concepts such as White male privilege or structural racism and sexism are to be scoffed at, that the working class, Christians and Trump supporters have been victimized, that it’s okay to be moved to tears by a love for the country and its president but that liberals are crybabies and snowflakes. They pride themselves on being self-made and see Trump, whose life has been nothing like their own, as a once-in-a-lifetime leader.

Bickley, who owns two marinas and a shoreline construction company, gets frustrated by the suggestion that White men such as him were born more powerful, or with advantages.

“There’s 8 billion of us on the planet. There’s only 780 million White people. . . . So I’m personally really tired of hearing that I’m a majority, that I’m a superpower White privilege kid,” Bickley said. “My mom and dad had nothing. . . . I have been working my whole life.

“Now, here I am, 54, and I’ve got a lot of stuff. . . . Somebody says: ‘Look at all of this stuff you have, you must have been privileged.’ Oh, really? Really? I’ve been working since I was 10.”

Bickley says that while he’s now “on the top of the food chain,” he remembers the years he spent as a lowly worker, helping make other people millions of dollars. He thinks Trump has that same mentality. Trump’s strategy for winning reelection relies on finding more White men who support him but didn’t vote in 2016, as well as pulling in more votes from Black and Latino men.

“The people who love Trump can’t be swayed by anything,” Bickley said. “If you love Trump, you’re all in. There’s nobody on the fence. You’re in.”

Those on the barge on the Saturday before Labor Day are labeled as “White working-class men” by journalists, political strategists and university researchers — people in professions that some of these Ohio men don’t consider real work, as they define it: the sort that’s physical and might get your hands dirty. That’s the work most of them have been doing since they were children and will continue to do until they die.
AD

Many have done well for themselves without a college diploma, and they’re living a version of the American Dream that involves owning a boat and a truck to haul it.

Bickley has deep experience organizing large events on the water. For many summers, he hosted the Sandusky Bay Barge Party, which featured live music and bikini-clad women dancing around stripper poles. Bickley likes to circulate a video compilation of women’s jiggling bodies from these parties, set to an off-color song.

He lost his enthusiasm for it in 2015 when his father — a Navy veteran, former police officer and Democrat — died. He started paying attention to the Republican presidential primary and gleefully watched as Trump trounced established politicians — especially former Florida governor Jeb Bush.

“So in typical Bickley fashion, I started liking Trump a lot,” he said.

For much of his life, Bickley was an independent, although he mostly voted for Republicans, even during the decade that he worked at a quarry and was involved with a union. He’s staunchly conservative on nearly all issues except for those related to the environment, on which he’s aligned with liberals, worried about factory pollution and the health of the nation’s waterways. This is one area where he says he hasn’t studied Trump’s record.

Bickley loves that Trump puts “America first,” especially when that offends the educated elites. He supports building a wall along the southern border and forcing immigrants who arrive legally to learn English. And he agrees with Trump “constantly backing our men and women in blue,” although he says he has had a few run-ins with law enforcement himself.

Someone on Facebook recently suggested that Trump hasn’t accomplished much and Bickley responded, in part: “46 days away to your absolute pain. Perhaps you could stick a red hot fork in your eye. Or better yet, cut off your little buddy in despair.”

Even as Bickley’s businesses have prospered, he still considers himself blue-collar. He recently added an image of Trump’s profile to the window of the back seat of his white SUV, so that it looks as if he is chauffeuring the president around town.

“Sometimes my wife will be like: ‘More attention? You just need more attention, Shaun?’ ” he said of his wife of 31 years.

There was something about Trump that transcended both political parties — which is also a big reason Karr voted for him after voting for Barack Obama in 2008 and Ron Paul in 2012.

Karr retired from the Army a few years ago, disgusted with most politicians, military leaders, government contractors and federal workers, who he said put their pursuit of wealth and power above all else, including keeping their word. For years, he has struggled with serious digestive issues that he believes were caused by burn pits in the Middle East, and he was frustrated by Veterans Affairs doctors who seemed unable to accurately diagnose him or ease his pain.

Sometimes, he said, he feels as if the United States has become a nation of victims, even when they’re not — a feeling that has become especially strong amid protests over racial inequality.

“These guys that say: ‘We didn’t get a chance,’ ” he said. “No, you didn’t take a chance.”

Karr says that racism should not be tolerated, but that he doesn’t think the nation’s problems are as bad as the media claims. Slavery was terrible, Karr said, “but that was then and this is now, and we can’t go in a negative direction.”

Trump and Biden have squabbled over who could best serve blue-collar workers, but Bickley and Karr rolled their eyes at the notion that Biden understands them. As they see it, Biden has spent his entire career in elective office with a generous salary, posh benefits and opportunities to become wealthy. Trump is right to call him weak, they said. Although Trump was born into a wealthy family, they see him as someone who knows how to build a business and understands the pressure of trying to make payroll.

Bickley said he feels bad that Biden’s son Beau died of cancer. As a father of three, he can’t imagine the pain of losing a child. But he’s taken aback that Biden has used that pain “as a political crutch.” He assumes campaign staffers suggested doing so.

“He should have punched them in the mouth and said: ‘No, we’re not going there. That’s painful,’ ” Bickley said.

Amy F. Grubbe, the chairwoman of the Democratic Party for Erie County, where Sandusky is located, says her volunteers don’t even bother trying to win over the men who voted for Trump in 2016.

“People tend to go down with the ship. . . . That hardcore group, they’re going to be flying Trump flags at their funerals 30 years from now,” said Rep. Tim Ryan (D), whose eastern Ohio district is heavily blue-collar. While Ryan said he is confident Biden will win Ohio, he has little hope of converting Trump’s strongest supporters. “They’re all in with him, and there’s no way to change their minds.”

The issues Trump has chosen to highlight are, like his cultural positions, attractive to his White male supporters. His focus on law and order, seen by many as a way to scare some suburban women and seniors into voting for him, has also excited and rallied the men who already love him and are willing to follow him anywhere, including into an actual battle.

“We’ll grab my AR and head for Washington and join the police force if they think they’re going to riot and destroy Washington — not under my watch. I will die shoulder-to-shoulder with the cops,” said Karr, the veteran who has three grown sons. “There ain’t no way I am going to accept lawlessness in this country.”

He and Bickley say Trump is right to refuse to accept any blame for the coronavirus pandemic and the nation’s resulting economic problems. Yes, people are getting sick, they said, but they do not believe the death toll is really as high as some claim.

Bickley and Karr blame the pandemic on China and credit Trump for blocking many foreign travelers from China and other countries. Bickley says he spent thousands of dollars stocking up on food and protective gear. When Trump touted the lifesaving potential of hydroxychloroquine, Bickley ordered 90 pills online, along with a bunch of Z-Paks and some zinc pills, also touted by the president. Although federal health officials have strongly warned against using the medications to treat covid-19, especially without the oversight of doctors, Bickley is confident that they work.

“I’m not letting anybody on my team die,” he said.

Karr nodded and added: “He’s a friend who cares.”

“I’m a friend who can get [stuff],” Bickley said with a laugh.

In July, Bickley’s 32-year-old son-in-law became sick and tested positive for the novel coronavirus. Soon his 27-year-old daughter was also sick. Bickley offered them the medication, but they declined, suggesting that it was “quack science.” The two quickly recovered, he said.

At the boat parade, those on the barge wore headphones or earplugs to protect their hearing against the cannon blasts, but they did not wear masks.

Two weeks after the parade, Bickley was invited by the Trump campaign to sit in the bleachers directly behind the president as he spoke at a rally in Swanton, Ohio, just outside of Toledo. He brought along Karr and some others and wore jeans with rhinestones on the pockets and ostrich skin boots. Because they would be in view of television cameras, the campaign asked the group to put on masks. Most of the thousands who gathered outside did not.

As Trump took the stage and marveled at the sprawling crowd before him, Bickley and Karr did the same. Trump assured the crowd that polls showing a tight race in Ohio were “fake,” which is exactly what Bickley and Karr have been telling people. Trump debated aloud if he should nominate a woman to the Supreme Court or a man, as he did with his first two nominations — the sort of joke that Bickley and Karr say the media always takes too seriously.

“I don’t want to make the men too angry,” Trump said as the crowd laughed. “It will be a woman. Is that okay? I don’t want to have a problem with men.”

Trump gave himself credit for saving millions of lives and tens of millions of jobs amid the pandemic. He promised to continue to build up the military, the power of which he said he’s not afraid to use on American soil. He told the crowd that he is “the only thing standing between you and chaos,” and he warned “suburban men and husbands” that if Biden is elected, “you’re not going to have your dream very much longer.”

Trump left the stage to the recorded sounds of the Village People telling men everywhere that “there’s no need to feel down . . . there’s no need to be unhappy.”

Bickley said afterward that the sound system near their group wasn’t working properly, so they couldn’t always understand what Trump was saying. But they applauded anyway.

“We could see what he saw. We could feel what he felt. We could see the laughter and the joy and the excitement,” Bickley said of their front-row seats. “So the couple times I couldn’t hear him, that was okay; I knew I was supposed to clap. I don’t know what I was clapping about, but I clapped.”
Pete, I have a new place for you to move. Sandusky Bay Ohio where the parties are bikini top optional. Your kind of place.
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by seacoaster »

6ftstick wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:11 pm Why are you still posting tomes of anti trump blah blah blah when he's not going to win reelection according to the polls.
Because...2016, and it's kind of fun.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

6ftstick wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:11 pm Why are you still posting tomes of anti trump blah blah blah when he's not going to win reelection according to the polls.


It's called 'being nervous as he!! that I'm wrong'. Most Dems are as unsure sure of this election as they are playing the lottery. They see the massive crowds coming out for Trump rallies and they know that a significant swath of Democrats have no intention of going out election day to vote for Biden (hence the increasing online hysteria as well as the need to file bogus ballots).

American taxpayers have seen what occurs in Democratic cities, and we can be reasonably sure if Trump wins that even more of these bozos will riot in the weeks afterward (that alone is reason enough to vote for Trump).
User avatar
dislaxxic
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 11:00 am
Location: Moving to Montana Soon...

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by dislaxxic »

Why are you still posting tomes of anti trump blah blah blah when he's not going to win reelection according to the polls.
Cause the schtink on this schitt needs to be cleansed now and forever. The old GOP as such is likely gone as well...as there will be some serious reckoning to really get the schtink out. There OUGHT to be post-inauguration indictments as well...so that THIS time, it makes it much less likely to let this mistake happen again. Obama made a mistake not going after the lawlessness of the Shrub tears, IMO, and look what happens...that sort of "forgiveness" seems to only forgive crimes and actually has not much at ALL to do with the simple-minded conservative trope that it's just "criminalizing political differences". Making torture a part of American foreign policy should have been more vigorously prosecuted...

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"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm
Why are you still posting tomes of anti trump blah blah blah when he's not going to win reelection according to the polls.
Cause the schtink on this schitt needs to be cleansed now and forever. The old GOP as such is likely gone as well...as there will be some serious reckoning to really get the schtink out. There OUGHT to be post-inauguration indictments as well...so that THIS time, it makes it much less likely to let this mistake happen again. Obama made a mistake not going after the lawlessness of the Shrub tears, IMO, and look what happens...that sort of "forgiveness" seems to only forgive crimes and actually has not much at ALL to do with the simple-minded conservative trope that it's just "criminalizing political differences". Making torture a part of American foreign policy should have been more vigorously prosecuted...

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disslaxx: I realize Dems aren't much into introspection, so bear with me as I ask you to do this: ask yourself what befalls the Democrats if they lose? The far left wing will, imo, become the party. That wing will repel anyone of sound mind left in the Democrats.

What is the likelihood that you can keep your party from absolutely and permanently splintering? Republicans are giving Trump 98% support right now. The FLP wing hates Biden.

Tell me who is more at risk here...
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