2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:48 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:04 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:44 pm To pay $750 in income taxes in 2019, your taxable income needs to be about $7500.

If this report is true, this is absolutely disgraceful.

How many Americans paid more than $750 in taxes last year?

I hope Wallace and Biden jump all over this on Tuesday.


Amazon paid zero.

Why do I have the sense none of you get passive income from real estate properties and therefore will get excited over a subject (tax law) you know very little about?
Amazon is not an individual taxpayer like Joe at the corner bar.

Yes, I understand how the tax laws work, at least as to individuals.

Putting aside the fact that he apparently was playing games with his deductions, it is obvious why he hasn’t wanted his tax returns made public. This, of course, was one of the main reasons most people guessed as to why he wanted to keep his returns hidden. He understands that this will not play at all well with many in his base and many voters he hopes to attract.


Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

CU88 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:53 pm For a decade, IMPOTUS o d paid more for prostitutes than he did in Federal Income Tax.
Probably took a deduction for the payment to Stormy.
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:25 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:06 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:35 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:28 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:21 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:38 pm Well if you like the 50 star version, after we add DC in Puerto Rico, we could combine North and South Dakota and North and South Carolina.
In a moment here of sobriety, what besides more Democratic electoral votes does adding PR as a state do for you as an American? They themselves prefer to be an independent country. But really, what’s the rationale? Have you actually been to PR? Outside the Ritz Carlton that is. Do you, uhhhhhh, feel that PR is a net win for America?

I’m genuinely interested in replies. I won’t mock anyone.
Two more Senators.

Never been there, but know people who have and who like it.
I have been there (almost week long family reunion in 2008). Great place and great people, who have contributed greatly to the US. I was always treated well during my trip, and would not hesitate to go back.


I can say the same about The Bahamas. I’m not asking they become a state.

I am curious where you think PR has ‘contributed greatly to the US’. :lol: I’m guessing you don’t actually know anything and this was some simpleminded line.

What SPECIFIC positives do you know about Puerto Rico which would make someone say, ‘you know what, that DOES make sense!’? Tell us something tangible. How would America and not the DNC benefit from PR statehood?
First person I knew from PR had a 20 year career as an Army Ranger. Not an atypical story. In spite of not being a state, there have been many who have served our country. And that alone should be a good enough reason.

PR is predominantly Roman Catholic, and so is less ‘liberal’ than you seem to imagine.

You are the one who needs to be informed, and seem too lazy to do your own research.


Again, you don’t answer the question. What benefits to the United States would occur by granting PR statehood? Anything. I will take any tangible net benefit. One.

So far as your friend, we already have a “naturalization through military service” that is offered to almost any nationality. We don’t offer Guatemala statehood because many of our military cooks come from there.
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:00 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:25 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:06 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:35 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:28 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:21 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:38 pm Well if you like the 50 star version, after we add DC in Puerto Rico, we could combine North and South Dakota and North and South Carolina.
In a moment here of sobriety, what besides more Democratic electoral votes does adding PR as a state do for you as an American? They themselves prefer to be an independent country. But really, what’s the rationale? Have you actually been to PR? Outside the Ritz Carlton that is. Do you, uhhhhhh, feel that PR is a net win for America?

I’m genuinely interested in replies. I won’t mock anyone.
Two more Senators.

Never been there, but know people who have and who like it.
I have been there (almost week long family reunion in 2008). Great place and great people, who have contributed greatly to the US. I was always treated well during my trip, and would not hesitate to go back.


I can say the same about The Bahamas. I’m not asking they become a state.

I am curious where you think PR has ‘contributed greatly to the US’. :lol: I’m guessing you don’t actually know anything and this was some simpleminded line.

What SPECIFIC positives do you know about Puerto Rico which would make someone say, ‘you know what, that DOES make sense!’? Tell us something tangible. How would America and not the DNC benefit from PR statehood?
First person I knew from PR had a 20 year career as an Army Ranger. Not an atypical story. In spite of not being a state, there have been many who have served our country. And that alone should be a good enough reason.

PR is predominantly Roman Catholic, and so is less ‘liberal’ than you seem to imagine.

You are the one who needs to be informed, and seem too lazy to do your own research.


Again, you don’t answer the question. What benefits to the United States would occur by granting PR statehood? Anything. I will take any tangible net benefit. One.

So far as your friend, we already have a “naturalization through military service” that is offered to almost any nationality. We don’t offer Guatemala statehood because many of our military cooks come from there.
No, you are missing the point. Puerto Rico is a part of the US. Their citizens are all US citizens. They should be offered a _real_ chance of statehood (such as by passing a law that says that if there is a successful referendum in PR, that statehood is automatically granted).

The people there are what is worth it. You just are incapable of seeing it.
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
Here’s a quote from Judge Learned Hand (one of the most famous, if not the most famous, judge who never made it to the supreme court) which supports your view:

“Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.”

Very true. For you, me, or your neighbor.

Also true for Trump (again, putting aside that he apparently has been engaging in shenanigans) in terms of the tax collector.

However, there is a political price to pay (or at least that should be paid) by a politician who does not pay any federal income taxes.
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
Here’s a quote from Judge Learned Hand (one of the most famous, if not the most famous, judge who never made it to the supreme court) which supports your view:

“Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.”

Very true. For you, me, or your neighbor.

Also true for Trump (again, putting aside that he apparently has been engaging in shenanigans) in terms of the tax collector.

However, there is a political price to pay (or at least that should be paid) by a politician who does not pay any federal income taxes.
And beyond a political price for a politician who uses fraud to reduce/not pay his taxes. There is some real evidence of that possibility in the NYT release. And the paper says there are more stories to follow (presumably as they look at the possible shady nature of the returns).
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

More from the Times:
18 Revelations From a Trove of Trump Tax Records

Times reporters have obtained decades of tax information the president has hidden from public view. Here are some of the key findings.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/t ... e=Homepage
The New York Times has obtained tax-return data for President Trump and his companies that covers more than two decades. Mr. Trump has long refused to release this information, making him the first president in decades to hide basic details about his finances. His refusal has made his tax returns among the most sought-after documents in recent memory.

Among the key findings of The Times’s investigation:

-Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.

-He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service.

-Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes.

-The financial pressure on him is increasing as hundreds of millions of dollars in loans he personally guaranteed are soon coming due.

-Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television.

-Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill.

-As president, he has received more money from foreign sources and U.S. interest groups than previously known. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.

It is important to remember that the returns are not an unvarnished look at Mr. Trump’s business activity. They are instead his own portrayal of his companies, compiled for the I.R.S. But they do offer the most detailed picture yet available.
The president’s tax avoidance
Mr. Trump has paid no federal income taxes for much of the past two decades.


In addition to the 11 years in which he paid no taxes during the 18 years examined by The Times, he paid only $750 in each of the two most recent years — 2016 and 2017.
This tax avoidance sets him apart from most other affluent Americans.

Taxes on wealthy Americans have declined sharply over the past few decades, and many use loopholes to reduce their taxes below the statutory rates. But most affluent people still pay a lot of federal income tax.
This tax avoidance sets him apart from most other affluent Americans.

Taxes on wealthy Americans have declined sharply over the past few decades, and many use loopholes to reduce their taxes below the statutory rates. But most affluent people still pay a lot of federal income tax.
His tax avoidance also sets him apart from past presidents.

Mr. Trump may be the wealthiest U.S. president in history. Yet he has often paid less in taxes than other recent presidents. Barack Obama and George W. Bush each regularly paid more than $100,000 a year — and sometimes much more — in federal income taxes while in office.
A large refund has been crucial to his tax avoidance.

Mr. Trump did face large tax bills after the initial success of “The Apprentice” television show, but he erased most of these tax payments through a refund. Combined, Mr. Trump initially paid almost $95 million in federal income taxes over the 18 years. He later managed to recoup most of that money, with interest, by applying for and receiving a $72.9 million tax refund, starting in 2010.
The $72.9 million refund has since become the subject of a long-running battle with the I.R.S.

When applying for the refund, he cited a giant financial loss that may be related to the failure of his Atlantic City casinos. Publicly, he also claimed that he had fully surrendered his stake in the casinos.

But the real story may be different from the one he told. Federal law holds that investors can claim a total loss on an investment, as Mr. Trump did, only if they receive nothing in return. Mr. Trump did appear to receive something in return: 5 percent of the new casino company that formed when he renounced his stake.

In 2011, the I.R.S. began an audit reviewing the legitimacy of the refund. Almost a decade later, the case remains unresolved, for unknown reasons, and could ultimately end up in federal court, where it could become a matter of public record.
Business expenses and personal benefits
Mr. Trump classifies much of the spending on his personal lifestyle as the cost of business.


His residences are part of the family business, as are the golf courses where he spends so much time. He has classified the cost of his aircraft, used to shuttle him among his homes, as a business expense as well. Haircuts — including more than $70,000 to style his hair during “The Apprentice” — have fallen into the same category. So did almost $100,000 paid to a favorite hair and makeup artist of Ivanka Trump.

All of this helps to reduce Mr. Trump’s tax bill further, because companies can write off business expenses.
Seven Springs, his estate in Westchester County, N.Y., typifies his aggressive definition of business expenses.

Mr. Trump bought the estate, which stretches over more than 200 acres in Bedford, N.Y., in 1996. His sons Eric and Donald Jr. spent summers living there when they were younger. “This is really our compound,” Eric told Forbes in 2014. “Today,” the Trump Organization website continues to report, “Seven Springs is used as a retreat for the Trump family.”

Nonetheless, the elder Mr. Trump has classified the estate as an investment property, distinct from a personal residence. As a result, he has been able to write off $2.2 million in property taxes since 2014 — even as his 2017 tax law has limited individuals to writing off only $10,000 in property taxes a year.
The ‘consulting fees’
Across nearly all of his projects, Mr. Trump’s companies set aside about 20 percent of income for unexplained ‘consulting fees.’


These fees reduce taxes, because companies are able to write them off as a business expense, lowering the amount of final profit subject to tax.

His daughter appears to have received some of these consulting fees, despite having been a top Trump Organization executive.

The Times investigation discovered a striking match: Mr. Trump’s private records show that his company once paid $747,622 in fees to an unnamed consultant for hotel projects in Hawaii and Vancouver, British Columbia. Ivanka Trump’s public disclosure forms — which she filed when joining the White House staff in 2017 — show that she had received an identical amount through a consulting company she co-owned.
Money-losing businesses
Many of the highest-profile Trump businesses lose large amounts of money.


Since 2000, he has reported losing more than $315 million at the golf courses that he often describes as the heart of his empire. Much of this has been at Trump National Doral, a resort near Miami that he bought in 2012. And his Washington hotel, opened in 2016, has lost more than $55 million.

An exception: Trump Tower in New York, which reliably earns him more than $20 million in profits a year.
The most successful part of the Trump business has been his personal brand.

The Times calculates that between 2004 and 2018, Mr. Trump made a combined $427.4 million from selling his image — an image of unapologetic wealth through shrewd business management. The marketing of this image has been a huge success, even if the underlying management of many of the operating Trump companies has not been.

Other firms, especially in real estate, have paid for the right to use the Trump name. The brand made possible the “The Apprentice” — and the show then took the image to another level.
But his unprofitable companies still served a financial purpose: reducing his tax bill.

The Trump Organization — a collection of more than 500 entities, virtually all of them wholly owned by Mr. Trump — has used the losses to offset the rich profits from the licensing of the Trump brand and other profitable pieces of its business.

The reported losses from the operating businesses were so large that they often fully erased the licensing income, leaving the organization to claim that it earns no money and thus owes no taxes. This pattern is an old one for Mr. Trump. The collapse of major parts of his business in the early 1990s generated huge losses that he used to reduce his taxes for years afterward.
Large bills looming
With the cash from ‘The Apprentice,’ Mr. Trump went on his biggest buying spree since the 1980s.


“The Apprentice,” which debuted on NBC in 2004, was a huge hit. Mr. Trump received 50 percent of its profits, and he went on to buy more than 10 golf courses and multiple other properties. The losses at these properties reduced his tax bill.

But the strategy ran into trouble as the money from “The Apprentice” began to decline. By 2015, his financial condition was worsening.
His 2016 presidential campaign may have been partly an attempt to resuscitate his brand.

The financial records do not answer this question definitively. But the timing is consistent: Mr. Trump announced a campaign that seemed a long shot to win, but was almost certain to bring him newfound attention, at the same time that his businesses were in need of a new approach.
The presidency has helped his business.

Since he became a leading presidential candidate, he has received large amounts of money from lobbyists, politicians and foreign officials who pay to stay at his properties or join his clubs. The Times investigation puts precise numbers on this spending for the first time.

A surge of new members at the Mar-a-Lago club in Florida gave him an additional $5 million a year from the business since 2015. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association paid at least $397,602 in 2017 to the Washington hotel, where it held at least one event during its World Summit in Defense of Persecuted Christians.

In his first two years in the White House, Mr. Trump received millions of dollars from projects in foreign countries, including $3 million from the Philippines, $2.3 million from India and $1 million from Turkey.

But the presidency has not resolved his core financial problem: Many of his businesses continue to lose money.

With “The Apprentice” revenue declining, Mr. Trump has absorbed the losses partly through one-time financial moves that may not be available to him again.

In 2012, he took out a $100 million mortgage on the commercial space in Trump Tower. He has also sold hundreds of millions worth of stock and bonds. But his financial records indicate that he may have as little as $873,000 left to sell.
He will soon face several major bills that could put further pressure on his finances.

He appears to have paid off none of the principal of the Trump Tower mortgage, and the full $100 million comes due in 2022. And if he loses his dispute with the I.R.S. over the 2010 refund, he could owe the government more than $100 million (including interest on the original amount).
He is personally on the hook for some of these bills.

In the 1990s, Mr. Trump nearly ruined himself by personally guaranteeing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, and he has since said that he regretted doing so. But he has taken the same step again, his tax records show. He appears to be responsible for loans totaling $421 million, most of which is coming due within four years.

Should he win re-election, his lenders could be placed in the unprecedented position of weighing whether to foreclose on a sitting president. Whether he wins or loses, he will probably need to find new ways to use his brand — and his popularity among tens of millions of Americans — to make money.
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
Here’s a quote from Judge Learned Hand (one of the most famous, if not the most famous, judge who never made it to the supreme court) which supports your view:

“Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.”

Very true. For you, me, or your neighbor.

Also true for Trump (again, putting aside that he apparently has been engaging in shenanigans) in terms of the tax collector.

However, there is a political price to pay (or at least that should be paid) by a politician who does not pay any federal income taxes.


Many professional real estate investors don’t show much federal income tax paid because so much of their income is passive. Add in depreciation and it actually goes negative. But even that isn’t the entire story. I’m afraid very few Americans could stand a two hour primer on real estate income, and as a result, won’t bother to understand Trump’s earned income, passive income, and tax liabilities, so yes, it will look bad to any untrained eye. I have zero doubt he was aggressive in his use of tax strategies, but until he is indicted AND found guilty of tax crimes, this is yet another snooze story.
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Sure fire way to get Trump out of the White House.

https://apple.news/AYiL8ZA-2Q8ea4p3NOJrIRg
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

A real NYC Real Estate Developer

Guys I worked for early on were close personal friends....they played his course all the time with heavy hitters in NYC. Donald wasn’t one of them.
Last edited by Typical Lax Dad on Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I wish you would!”
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:00 pm I can say the same about The Bahamas. I’m not asking they become a state.

We don’t offer Guatemala statehood because many of our military cooks come from there.
We don’t own the Bahamas. You’ll need to check with the Queen about them.

Guatemala? Or is it Greenland? Which one are we going to buy and make a state again?
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:06 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:00 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:25 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:06 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:35 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:28 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:21 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:38 pm Well if you like the 50 star version, after we add DC in Puerto Rico, we could combine North and South Dakota and North and South Carolina.
In a moment here of sobriety, what besides more Democratic electoral votes does adding PR as a state do for you as an American? They themselves prefer to be an independent country. But really, what’s the rationale? Have you actually been to PR? Outside the Ritz Carlton that is. Do you, uhhhhhh, feel that PR is a net win for America?

I’m genuinely interested in replies. I won’t mock anyone.
Two more Senators.

Never been there, but know people who have and who like it.
I have been there (almost week long family reunion in 2008). Great place and great people, who have contributed greatly to the US. I was always treated well during my trip, and would not hesitate to go back.


I can say the same about The Bahamas. I’m not asking they become a state.

I am curious where you think PR has ‘contributed greatly to the US’. :lol: I’m guessing you don’t actually know anything and this was some simpleminded line.

What SPECIFIC positives do you know about Puerto Rico which would make someone say, ‘you know what, that DOES make sense!’? Tell us something tangible. How would America and not the DNC benefit from PR statehood?
First person I knew from PR had a 20 year career as an Army Ranger. Not an atypical story. In spite of not being a state, there have been many who have served our country. And that alone should be a good enough reason.

PR is predominantly Roman Catholic, and so is less ‘liberal’ than you seem to imagine.

You are the one who needs to be informed, and seem too lazy to do your own research.


Again, you don’t answer the question. What benefits to the United States would occur by granting PR statehood? Anything. I will take any tangible net benefit. One.

So far as your friend, we already have a “naturalization through military service” that is offered to almost any nationality. We don’t offer Guatemala statehood because many of our military cooks come from there.
No, you are missing the point. Puerto Rico is a part of the US. Their citizens are all US citizens. They should be offered a _real_ chance of statehood (such as by passing a law that says that if there is a successful referendum in PR, that statehood is automatically granted).

The people there are what is worth it. You just are incapable of seeing it.


PR debt, which is unpayable, is $78 billion and counting. Unemployment was hovering at a dismal 25 percent and 46 percent of the island's inhabitants are living below the poverty line, a rate higher than that of any state on the mainland. Thr infrastructure is 3rd world or less. Education is practically non existent.

Democrats want Americans to absorb this mess because of two votes. Unreal.

Let them free so they can actually help themselves which is what they want.
Peter Brown
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Peter Brown »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:42 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:00 pm I can say the same about The Bahamas. I’m not asking they become a state.

We don’t offer Guatemala statehood because many of our military cooks come from there.
We don’t own the Bahamas. You’ll need to check with the Queen about them.

Guatemala? Or is it Greenland? Which one are we going to buy and make a state again?


25% of Puerto Ricans want statehood. The rest want independence.

Why won’t you give it to them?
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Do you remember when Mitt was ostracized for only paying income taxes at the 15% rate?

He obviously had a lousy accountant. Should have hired The Donald’s.
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by njbill »

Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:33 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
Here’s a quote from Judge Learned Hand (one of the most famous, if not the most famous, judge who never made it to the supreme court) which supports your view:

“Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.”

Very true. For you, me, or your neighbor.

Also true for Trump (again, putting aside that he apparently has been engaging in shenanigans) in terms of the tax collector.

However, there is a political price to pay (or at least that should be paid) by a politician who does not pay any federal income taxes.


Many professional real estate investors don’t show much federal income tax paid because so much of their income is passive. Add in depreciation and it actually goes negative. But even that isn’t the entire story. I’m afraid very few Americans could stand a two hour primer on real estate income, and as a result, won’t bother to understand Trump’s earned income, passive income, and tax liabilities, so yes, it will look bad to any untrained eye. I have zero doubt he was aggressive in his use of tax strategies, but until he is indicted AND found guilty of tax crimes, this is yet another snooze story.
We’ll see how his cases with the IRS and New York shake out.

It’s not the earned income or passive income that is the issue. It is the deductions, including depreciation and his “creative” characterization of expenses as proper deductions.

Depreciation rules have substantially tightened up over the years. They used to be absolutely crazy, but not so anymore.

One example cited in the article is that he tried to claim a second home as investment property. By doing so, he claimed substantial deductions, including depreciation. The problem is it does not appear to be an investment property at all. If that’s the case, then many of those deductions, including depreciation, will go by the boards.

But, politically, this is a disaster for him. Once again, it proves he has lied massively over the years about how much money he has paid in taxes. “Nobody pays more taxes than me.”

This is a very, very simple sell to the voters. The average man on the street can relate to the fact that they pay multiples more in taxes than Trump does. A lot of people will be very unhappy about that.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:01 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:33 pm
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm Here’s how everyone should stand on your neighbors taxes: if you think they’ve paid too little and they did it legally, change the tax laws.

I also believe every presidential candidate should release their tax returns.
Here’s a quote from Judge Learned Hand (one of the most famous, if not the most famous, judge who never made it to the supreme court) which supports your view:

“Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.”

Very true. For you, me, or your neighbor.

Also true for Trump (again, putting aside that he apparently has been engaging in shenanigans) in terms of the tax collector.

However, there is a political price to pay (or at least that should be paid) by a politician who does not pay any federal income taxes.


Many professional real estate investors don’t show much federal income tax paid because so much of their income is passive. Add in depreciation and it actually goes negative. But even that isn’t the entire story. I’m afraid very few Americans could stand a two hour primer on real estate income, and as a result, won’t bother to understand Trump’s earned income, passive income, and tax liabilities, so yes, it will look bad to any untrained eye. I have zero doubt he was aggressive in his use of tax strategies, but until he is indicted AND found guilty of tax crimes, this is yet another snooze story.
We’ll see how his cases with the IRS and New York shake out.

It’s not the earned income or passive income that is the issue. It is the deductions, including depreciation and his “creative” characterization of expenses as proper deductions.

Depreciation rules have substantially tightened up over the years. They used to be absolutely crazy, but not so anymore.

One example cited in the article is that he tried to claim a second home as investment property. By doing so, he claimed substantial deductions, including depreciation. The problem is it does not appear to be an investment property at all. If that’s the case, then many of those deductions, including depreciation, will go by the boards.

But, politically, this is a disaster for him. Once again, it proves he has lied massively over the years about how much money he has paid in taxes. “Nobody pays more taxes than me.”

This is a very, very simple sell to the voters. The average man on the street can relate to the fact that they pay multiples more in taxes than Trump does. A lot of people will be very unhappy about that.
$750 in federal income taxes.
“I wish you would!”
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

In 2016, Trump paid $129,250 more to Stormy Daniels than to the USA government. (Jeet Heer, Twitter)

Reminder that Wesley Snipes spent 3 years in jail for misdemeanour avoidance of taxes despite offering to pay $842,000 to the IRS.(Paul Bae, Twitter)
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

RedFromMI wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:05 pm In 2016, Trump paid $129,250 more to Stormy Daniels than to the USA government. (Jeet Heer, Twitter)

Reminder that Wesley Snipes spent 3 years in jail for misdemeanour avoidance of taxes despite offering to pay $842,000 to the IRS.(Paul Bae, Twitter)
That’s racist! :lol:
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

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Or this from Twitter:
To me, the most alarming tidbit in the @nytimes' story isn't the $750 bill or the dubious refund; it's that a President running for re-election would be on the hook for upwards of $421 million in loans during his second term. It's not hard to imagine the incentives that'd create.
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RedFromMI
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Re: 2020 Elections - Dems vs Trumpublicons

Post by RedFromMI »

News from Twitter:
BREAKING: Federal Judge in Washington grants TikTok’s motion for a preliminary injunction, blocking Trump’s TikTok ban from taking effect tonight at midnight as scheduled.
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