All things CoronaVirus

[youthathletics]

I’m starting to wonder if Ron is a secret agent for Biden. Opening up the state is a dumb, dumb, dumb idea. No question cases, hospitalizations, and maybe even deaths are likely to increase, perhaps precipitously.

That is only going to play into Biden’s hands.

Pete, what is going on with your patron saint?

We need this, as a country, to get out of this antimony. Stats, news, social media, testing outcomes, types of tests.....are all over the place. Florida will be a real live litmus test that will either force us back into our shells or allow us to have a bit more confidence to get busy living.

[wgdsr]

my buddies at ihme say it's gonna be awful everywhere by december.
save for a few places like florida, where they have ron or floridians wising up around thanksgiving or before.

stock up on tp, everybody.

[MDlaxfan76]

my buddies at ihme say it's gonna be awful everywhere by december.
save for a few places like florida, where they have ron or floridians wising up around thanksgiving or before.

stock up on tp, everybody.

arggghh, my mom is headed to Florida mid-October and we're going to join her there over Thanksgiving for a few weeks...feels like going into the teeth of the storm. Only positive, perhaps, is that we can help keep her on the straight and narrow while there, better than from afar.

She keeps thinking that if restaurants are open then that means no problem, go to a restaurant with her friends who she thinks are ALL being safe...fortunately, her county remains low, and her specific community has been very strong on its measures (good leadership)...but it worries me when at least some of these folks, often listening to specific media and political types, get more and more lax that it'll spread amongst those who thought their buddies were being smart and safe.

[Typical Lax Dad]

my buddies at ihme say it's gonna be awful everywhere by december.
save for a few places like florida, where they have ron or floridians wising up around thanksgiving or before.

stock up on tp, everybody.

https://local12.com/news/local/ohio-res ... s-reported

[ggait]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

[njbill]

I imagine the scene from Hanoi when the last American helicopter took the last Americans from the embassy

Hanoi?

[old salt]

Today on Meet the Press, HR McMaster gave a clear eyed, rational, constructive critique of our covid response :

There are 3 keys to pandemic response. (We had) a breakdown in a couple areas.

(1) stop it before it becomes a pandemic. Thanks to the CCCP, we couldn't do that.

(2) mobilize a bio-medical response. We were hamstrung in that because, over the years, our supply chains became too vulnerable, with just-in-time delivery & not enough stockpiles,

(3) to innovate & rapidly develop therapies & vaccines. I think that area is going to be a success.

What we can learn from this -- we have a federal system & a mixture of public & private health care. Where there were breakdowns, it was in coordination. It was in common understanding of the resources available, where the gaps were, & how to mobilize a response effectively.

IMHO -- that's an accurate assessment of the differences in our govt structure vs other nations, as it applies to crisis response.

[Peter Brown]

I imagine the scene from Hanoi when the last American helicopter took the last Americans from the embassy

Hanoi?

Saigon, my bad. To be blunt, not really that much of a diff, nor even with states like New Jersey which are teetering on insolvency.

You fellas up north will look exactly like that as we try to rescue the remaining conservatives there; the libs will be hanging on to the landing skids trying to escape, even when no one wants you because you will only bring your asinine policies with you.

[MDlaxfan76]

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:15 pm
Today on Meet the Press, HR McMaster gave a clear eyed, rational, constructive critique of our covid response :

A breakdown in a couple areas. There are 3 keys to pandemic response.

(1) stop it before it becomes a pandemic. Thanks to the CCCP, we couldn't do that.

(2) mobilize a bio-medical rresponse. We were hamstrung in that because, over the years, our supply chains became too vulnerable, with just-in-time delivery & not enough stockpiles,

(3) to innovate & rapidly develop therapies & vaccines. I think that area is going to be a success.

What we can learn from this -- we have a federal system & a mixture of public & private health care. Where there were breakdowns, it was in coordination. It was in common understanding of the resources available, where the gaps were, & how to mobilize a response effectively.

IMHO -- that's an accurate assessment of the differences in out govt structure vs other nations, as it applies to crisis response.
It was a "fail" from McMaster. Better answers earlier in that interview.

#1, total BS that it had anything to do with the Communist Party, as if Communist made a darn bit of difference to whether we knew what was happening...we had our bloody CIA there and knew darn well what was happening, as did ANYONE who was paying attention. Their officials, like officials in any bureaucracy, were scared of being the bearers of bad news, which delayed a couple of heart beats, but it wasn't as if we weren't knowing the magnitude at this same time they were realizing it. And they paid a brutal price in Wuhan. The difference was that they locked down hard once they realized it and we dilly dallied and still are....how many months later??? Sheesh, Shanghai which is practically next door beat it hard while we pretended it would all go away magically. Masks were all bought up by the populace by early January there because the population reacted fast. So, so dumb here. And a bunch of us were saying so early on...as was our IC to the President in January.

#2, fair criticism, but where was the self-critique...we're 3.5 years into the Trump administration, they own any shortfalls in stockpile just as would all prior Administrations. And McMaster was there...but it's also a cop out to say it was just a matter of enough stockpile, we didn't mobilize to build stockpile as soon as we knew this thing was happening. Such hubris to imagine it wasn't going to take off once it reached our shores, which we knew it had by late January...yet we dilly dallied and denied reality.

# 3, yes, eventually that's going to be a success, multiple hundreds of thousands of deaths later...he didn't say otherwise, but that's the unspoken truth. He should have said it out loud.

But the real fail was to not say that leadership matters and were failed, miserably, by this POTUS. Politics in front of science. Lying to the American people. Crisis 101...tell the truth and lets the experts communicate the facts. Don't undermine them.

He's trying so darn hard to avoid directly criticizing Trump as it would be 'political' that it's hamstringing the clarity of what he really thinks...and I have no doubt that he really thinks Trump blew it.

do you?

[njbill]

nor even with states like New Jersey which are teetering on insolvency.

No worries. We’ll just increase the millionaires tax whenever we need more money.

[old salt]

Today on Meet the Press, HR McMaster gave a clear eyed, rational, constructive critique of our covid response :

A breakdown in a couple areas. There are 3 keys to pandemic response.

(1) stop it before it becomes a pandemic. Thanks to the CCCP, we couldn't do that.

(2) mobilize a bio-medical rresponse. We were hamstrung in that because, over the years, our supply chains became too vulnerable, with just-in-time delivery & not enough stockpiles,

(3) to innovate & rapidly develop therapies & vaccines. I think that area is going to be a success.

What we can learn from this -- we have a federal system & a mixture of public & private health care. Where there were breakdowns, it was in coordination. It was in common understanding of the resources available, where the gaps were, & how to mobilize a response effectively.

IMHO -- that's an accurate assessment of the differences in out govt structure vs other nations, as it applies to crisis response.

It was a "fail" from McMaster. Better answers earlier in that interview.

#1, total BS that it had anything to do with the Communist Party, as if Communist made a darn bit of difference to whether we knew what was happening...we had our bloody CIA there and knew darn well what was happening, as did ANYONE who was paying attention. Their officials, like officials in any bureaucracy, were scared of being the bearers of bad news, which delayed a couple of heart beats, but it wasn't as if we weren't knowing the magnitude at this same time they were realizing it. And they paid a brutal price in Wuhan. The difference was that they locked down hard once they realized it and we dilly dallied and still are....how many months later??? Sheesh, Shanghai which is practically next door beat it hard while we pretended it would all go away magically. Masks were all bought up by the populace by early January there because the population reacted fast. So, so dumb here. And a bunch of us were saying so early on...as was our IC to the President in January.

#2, fair criticism, but where was the self-critique...we're 3.5 years into the Trump administration, they own any shortfalls in stockpile just as would all prior Administrations. And McMaster was there...but it's also a cop out to say it was just a matter of enough stockpile, we didn't mobilize to build stockpile as soon as we knew this thing was happening. Such hubris to imagine it wasn't going to take off once it reached our shores, which we knew it had by late January...yet we dilly dallied and denied reality.

# 3, yes, eventually that's going to be a success, multiple hundreds of thousands of deaths later...we didn't say otherwise, but that's the unspoken truth. He should have said it out loud.

But the real fail was to not say that leadership matters and were failed, miserably, by this POTUS. He's trying so darn hard to avoid directly criticizing Trump as it would be 'political' that it's hamstringing the clarity of what he really thinks...and I have no doubt that he really thinks Trump blew it.

do you?

#1 -- we don't have the ability to close China's borders & limit travel inside & out of their country. They selectively used that authority to limit the spread internally, while exporting the virus to the rest of the world. You excoriate Trump for demanding that state & local officials do their jobs within the US, while giving Chinese national leaders a pass by blaming local bureaucrats.

#2 -- this level of demand was unprecedented. There was a global rush for available supplies. The Chinese had a head start & controlled much of the inventory & manufacturing capacity. We mobilized & caught up in ventilators & hospital beds before there were shortages.

#3 -- so we should have had vaccines & therapeutics on hand, before we had the virus ?

As HR said, we are a Federal republic. The President is not the only leader.
There were, at various levels in some states, abrogation of responsibility, blame shifting & failures in followership.

Do you share HR's concern about the CCCP's export of their authoritarian mercantilism ?

[Peter Brown]

nor even with states like New Jersey which are teetering on insolvency.

No worries. We’ll just increase the millionaires tax whenever we need more money.

I need you to keep that philosophy right where it’s not working. Thx!

[MDlaxfan76]

Today on Meet the Press, HR McMaster gave a clear eyed, rational, constructive critique of our covid response :

A breakdown in a couple areas. There are 3 keys to pandemic response.

(1) stop it before it becomes a pandemic. Thanks to the CCCP, we couldn't do that.

(2) mobilize a bio-medical rresponse. We were hamstrung in that because, over the years, our supply chains became too vulnerable, with just-in-time delivery & not enough stockpiles,

(3) to innovate & rapidly develop therapies & vaccines. I think that area is going to be a success.

What we can learn from this -- we have a federal system & a mixture of public & private health care. Where there were breakdowns, it was in coordination. It was in common understanding of the resources available, where the gaps were, & how to mobilize a response effectively.

IMHO -- that's an accurate assessment of the differences in out govt structure vs other nations, as it applies to crisis response.

It was a "fail" from McMaster. Better answers earlier in that interview.

#1, total BS that it had anything to do with the Communist Party, as if Communist made a darn bit of difference to whether we knew what was happening...we had our bloody CIA there and knew darn well what was happening, as did ANYONE who was paying attention. Their officials, like officials in any bureaucracy, were scared of being the bearers of bad news, which delayed a couple of heart beats, but it wasn't as if we weren't knowing the magnitude at this same time they were realizing it. And they paid a brutal price in Wuhan. The difference was that they locked down hard once they realized it and we dilly dallied and still are....how many months later??? Sheesh, Shanghai which is practically next door beat it hard while we pretended it would all go away magically. Masks were all bought up by the populace by early January there because the population reacted fast. So, so dumb here. And a bunch of us were saying so early on...as was our IC to the President in January.

#2, fair criticism, but where was the self-critique...we're 3.5 years into the Trump administration, they own any shortfalls in stockpile just as would all prior Administrations. And McMaster was there...but it's also a cop out to say it was just a matter of enough stockpile, we didn't mobilize to build stockpile as soon as we knew this thing was happening. Such hubris to imagine it wasn't going to take off once it reached our shores, which we knew it had by late January...yet we dilly dallied and denied reality.

# 3, yes, eventually that's going to be a success, multiple hundreds of thousands of deaths later...we didn't say otherwise, but that's the unspoken truth. He should have said it out loud.

But the real fail was to not say that leadership matters and were failed, miserably, by this POTUS. He's trying so darn hard to avoid directly criticizing Trump as it would be 'political' that it's hamstringing the clarity of what he really thinks...and I have no doubt that he really thinks Trump blew it.

do you?

#1 -- we don't have the ability to close China's borders & limit travel inside & out of their country. They selectively used that authority to limit the spread internally, while exporting the virus to the rest of the world. You excoriate Trump for demanding that state & local officials do their jobs within the US, while giving Chinese national leaders a pass by blaming local bureaucrats.

Nope, they shut down EVERYONE in China, no movement, no going out of the home, period. They did not restrict foreigners who wanted to leave China from leaving. That's a far, far cry from "exporting the virus"...it was up to the destinations of those countries to quarantine arrivals, etc...which we blew off despite knowing what was inbound...I've relayed my son's direct experience in that regard...no testing, much less quarantining, when arriving in US in February from Thailand via Hong Kong and prior Shanghai, despite known cases in each of those locales.

No, I don't give the Chinese at any level a pass, I just call BS on the "Communist" aspect. All countries made early errors, all countries had bureaucrats who didn't want to deliver bad news...at first. But then some, not all, got off their butts and started to do what was necessary...we're still on our butts.

#2 -- this level of demand was unprecedented. There was a global rush for available supplies. The Chinese had a head start & controlled much of the inventory & manufacturing capacity. We mobilized & caught up in ventilators & hospital beds before there were shortages.

True, definitely unprecedented, and I don't fault anyone for past shortages, though 20;20 vision clearly indicates that we should sure as heck should have done better...it's how poorly we handled it once we recognized the problem, and are still behind. The most critical failure was the decision to not federalize the response and organization, instead encouraging states to compete for those scarce resources. Total FUBAR. And that's on POTUS, IMO, for his refusal to take responsibility in the early days and ever since.

#3 -- so we should have had vaccines & therapeutics on hand, before we had the virus ?

Of course not, and in no way did I suggest otherwise. The innovation response has been strong, but badly tainted by political posturing and ridiculous promises of miracle cures without scientific basis. The actual work of the docs and scientists has been outstanding, or at least we sure hope that will prove to be the case.

As HR said, we are a Federal republic. The President is not the only leader.
There were, at various levels in some states, abrogation of responsibility, blame shifting & failures in followership.

That's a cop out. I agree that errors have been made, but I call BS on this not being a federal first issue, a national emergency.

Do you share HR's concern about the CCCP's export of their authoritarian mercantilism ?

Yes, I do. I agree with them that they are our most important "rival" and that we need to "compete with them" very vigorously. That's quite consistent with my view.

[6x6]

Florida reported #Covid deaths

Fri. August 7: 180
Fri. August 14: 229
Fri. August 21: 121
Today: 89

Virus gonna virus. And when virus is done virusing, it’s done.

Cry more, libs.

by Peter Brown » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:19 am

#Covid burned out in Florida. On its own.

202 deaths in FL on 9/23. 172 on 9/24.

FL 7 day average is 101. Plateau or maybe even rising again. The average was 38 on 6/30 when Petey first told us the virus was dying out.

Petey says the virus is dying out.

The virus says #peteyisstillamoron

The data in no way shows it falling in Florida. It is flat at best and to me it looks like it is beginning to raise. I suspect next week is more likely to be worse than this week.

where/what do you see as a trend reversal?

The trailing average 7 day death rate had come down to 77 as of Sept 8, but back up to over 100 a day again. That looks like a "reversal" to me.

The puzzling aspect is the reported daily cases has come way down from its peak this summer and is bumping along ever since...anyone know the positivity rate on tests in Florida? Is there an issue in what's being reported? hmmm...sure wish we could be confident that politics weren't screwing with what's being reported out.

My mom is planning to head to Florida mid October, so it would be great to hear that cases really are way down from their peak and holding low.

that was a 3 day holiday weekend that moved the 7 day around. data is noisy. reporting, not every day's the same. even for 7 days in the short term. deaths have look stable to me. unfortunately. if they follow hospitalizations (the best indicator, imo), which have been good directionally, they can fall further for now.

https://tallahasseereports.com/2020/09/ ... us-battle/

Fingers crossed.
My sense is there's lots of social distancing happening with a substantial portion of the population, shocked by this summer, but on the other hand we have schools reopening and another substantial portion of the population being knuckleheads...so, fingers crossed.

Serious question....do you do the grocery shopping for your home, @ the store, and not online ordering and pick up?

We've done some of both. We did 100% online at first using Peapod and then eased into doing Wegmans and Costco runs, with the occasional FreshMarket which is closest. Only after it was clear that those stores will all requiring mask wearing and limiting volume of access, had great hygiene practices etc. Our business is in the technology end of the grocery sector, so we were clued in right away as to what was happening at grocery. They took it very seriously, quickly, and stores like Costco led the way in having their own distancing and mask mandates. Lots of cleaning. Peapod's all fouled up right now as they transfer into rebranding as Giant Direct and Stop & Shop Direct, so we've been doing less online these past months.

We insisted on my mom and son in Florida doing 100% online from their local Publix via Instacart through their duration there to mid May. They found it quite easy, plus the club provided meals for pick-up instead of sit-down, plus an on premises farmer's market once a week. Made it really easy (they now have some sit-down outside dining, so that too will be available once she goes back).

My wife does most of the Wegman store runs, but I do most of the Costco, though will occasionally do a Wegmans run...she knows that store better than me and it's indeed a big advantage to getting through it.

I've been impressed by how disciplined they've been in those stores and the strong compliance I've seen from their shoppers.

Where I see much less compliance is in convenience stores, gas stations etc, more lax behavior by some of their patrons...but overall not bad. I've had a couple of experiences at other retail/service spots where people are definitely being more lax than at grocery. But pretty much everywhere you see the no mask, no entry signs...and people have adjusted.

My sister and our neighbor across the street from her and us are having a yard sale today...the neighbor does this as a hobby, (drives her husband crazy) and says she doesn't really make any money, it's really for entertainment...a social experiment...does several a year. My sister chips in and works it with her. We put a couple of things out from our basement this AM, so I saw the crowd...everyone wearing masks, no problem.

Of course, this is in Maryland. Baltimore County.
Our area is doing pretty darn well right now as a result.

I’ve been to three different Wegmans in the Rochester area recently and observed several people in each location not wearing masks. I understand Trader Joe’s is a far different animal than Wegmans but they have a person at the entry making sure customers are wearing a mask and turning away those that don’t.

[RedFromMI]

NBC: Everything Trump’s COVID Adviser Says Is False, Proclaims CDC Director

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/nbc- ... c-director

Centers for Disease Control Director Dr. Robert Redfield was overheard on an airplane candidly expressing his real feelings on Friday, revealing to all his dim view of President Trump’s new favorite COVID-19 adviser, NBC reported.

“Everything he says is false,” Redfield said of Dr. Scott Atlas, a neurologist who hasn’t practiced medicine since 2012.

Before joining the White House’s coronavirus task force in August 2020, Atlas had not spent time on epidemiology but rather on advocacy against “socialized medicine.”

An NBC News reporter overheard Redfield discussing Atlas while on a flight from Atlanta to Washington D.C. After the flight landed, Redfield confirmed to NBC that he was discussing Atlas.

Atlas has faced widespread criticism for advocating a contrarian approach to managing the virus while lacking epidemiological expertise, recommending, for example, that all schools be reopened.

[seacoaster]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

Florida:

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 4531072008

Awesome stupid.

[wgdsr]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

Florida:

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 4531072008

Awesome stupid.

the elbo room is awesome.

[seacoaster]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

Florida:

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 4531072008

Awesome stupid.

the elbo room is awesome.

Is that you doing the sweet "bro hug" with the guy after getting the hug from the woman with the yellow nails?

[wgdsr]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

Florida:

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 4531072008

Awesome stupid.

the elbo room is awesome.

Is that you doing the sweet "bro hug" with the guy after getting the hug from the woman with the yellow nails?

nah. you wont find me inside there for quite a bit. or there for that matter. happy hour, the tables outside are better anyway. not as hot or noisy.

those guys are always there.

[Peter Brown]

I wonder if Ron’s order is just PR.

Localities I think will still have the ability to impose restrictions. And it is comparatively easy for FL folks to stay outside a lot.

I suspect a lot of folks won’t be piling inside bars even if Ron says it’s fine.

Florida:

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/stat ... 4531072008

Awesome stupid.

the elbo room is awesome.

seacoaster, like everyone else unfamiliar with Florida (who previously adored Andy Gillum... ), has no idea that Uhlfelder is that special brand of lunatic lib lawyer who specializes in that mentally challenging world of HOA disputes.

He is the idiot who wore a Death suit to the beach and the mainstream media made him a temporary star (naturally...remember: DeSantis Man Bad!!!)...and Dan has parlayed that bit of marketing gee-whiz to now being retweeted by equally impressionable internet libs.

He spends his entire day tweeting. I guess his legal clients have abandoned him.

Also, it still amazes me how scared you folks are of a virus which in no conceivable universe will do damage to you if you are healthy, and if you happen to catch it, you simply quarantine for 14 days. I just had lunch at a crowded restaurant and no one perished.