It's NOT healcare.....it IS a tax.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:18 am But who cares? These deaths are just older frail people or those with conditions like heart disease or diabetes or immune system disease...so, hey, let's get rid of preexisting conditions coverage...
The ACA is likely to be overturned by the new SCOTUS...potentially at the height of this next surge
thanks, bart. it'll be interesting to see where the data continues to take us. what a mix on this slippery thing and the ways we're measuring and trying to track it down. saw a couple studies that tracked IgA antibodies that were many multiples of IgM and IgG antibodies, which are used in some (many?) serology tests. small cohorts, but still.Bart wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:32 pmIn questioning Hasletines conclusion it as much about asking the possibility of different outcomes rather than saying he is wrong. I really do not know and the data did not appear to be as black and white as he suggest (imo). I certainly hope he is wrong but the data will take this thing where it will.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:36 pmBart (not PB), have you answered this layman's question?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:25 amRight, perhaps lower response...but this doesn't mean they are not infected and spreading to others, which is what is necessary for 'herd immunity' to slow transmission rates to then burn out.Bart wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:08 amYes.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:55 amI must have missed this explanation, would you explain it again.Bart wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:32 amYou are assuming there is no cross reactivity in Memory T cells from previous corona virus infections. A assumption that is currently being challenged with data that suggests otherwise.RedFromMI wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:38 pm Maybe someone should explain to PB that to get to herd immunity in Florida would mean upping the infection rates big time...
They are NOWHERE close to herd immunity (60% to 80% necessary). They are not close to passing New York, which might be at 25% or so now...
Are you saying that there have been prior corona virus infections (pre-COVID-19) in some of our population that provides them with immunity from this one, from being a spreader to others?
Evidence of such ?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32473127/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... f_ipsecsha (preprint)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577- ... -z----this is an interesting read
Remember, "immunity" may not keep a person from absolutely not getting the virus. It may men a systemic response that does not lead to really adverse effects.
But would perhaps explain why some who are infected have minimal impact upon them. Maybe.
But that's not a herd immunity factor, right?
Unless we're also saying that those with low reactions to the virus don't spread (or spread much less)...and we know that asymptomatics do spread...
I see you questioning Haseltine's conclusion with a rather esoteric response, and my own question is admittedly more simplistic and less precise, but this does seem the logical issue, correct?
It is a fair question.
If there's some lesser response in some of those infected, based on a prior exposure to a similar, though far less deadly, virus, this may or may not also mean that such a person is less infectious as well.
That would be my assumption
The issue would be, if any less infectious (we do know that asymptomatic patients are nevertheless spreaders), how much less?
Unknown. That is the million dollar question
Herd immunity depends (again from a lay perspective) on the virus not finding and then spreading from new patients to new patients, and ultimately doing so at so low a rate that the virus starves from no new jumping off points during the period in which an infected person is actually infectious.
But not causing rough symptoms doesn't appear to mean that such an infected, asymptomatic person does not nevertheless spread to more people, until ultimately there is a patient who responds very poorly...so, a conclusion that someone who has an immune response that keeps them having a bad outcome themselves does not mean, necessarily, that they aren't nevertheless capable of spreading it to those more vulnerable in outcomes...
Why not? It may depend on the size of the viral load determines the severity of the disease. If we have an immediate adaptive response (memory T cells) then the ability of the virus to take hold should be less and if there is less virus in then less virus out. Your point about spreading to vulnerable population may indeed happen, I do not know if we currently understand how much virus is needed to infect.
Only when there's little new fodder for spread does the virus choke off.
Vaccines are all about choking it off...
Certainly vaccines that confer sterile immunity do this.
But you undoubtedly know more than I do, thus my question.
I doubt that, I am relearning my immunology as we go through this entire thing. PCOWLAX gives a much more detailed explanation on the men's board on page 19 of the "is the seasons gonna happen" thread.
(and a heck of a lot more than our troll).
Pure guess......it would be hospitalization capacity? Hospitals only have so may beds to deal with both flu and covid patients. I do not see the other points in your post changing.
Agree - hospitalization. We are still very close to crashing / overflowing the system.Bart wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:29 pmPure guess......it would be hospitalization capacity? Hospitals only have so may beds to deal with both flu and covid patients. I do not see the other points in your post changing.
Since we are at the very tip of the flu season, we have no idea on the efficacy of this years vaccine and which of the more common strains will be prevalent. I hope this year they hit the nail on the head for the flu vaccine.
[/quote]runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:27 amYes. Know your audience’s limitations. Enjoy your Sunday.
Well that’s grossly pedantic...simply assuming your audience has limitations and even if they were eager to learn, they ‘can’t’. Fitting elitism for a Democrat.
Do you have a gaiter? Yes or no?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:27 amYes. Know your audience’s limitations. Enjoy your Sunday.
Well that’s grossly pedantic...simply assuming your audience has limitations and even if they were eager to learn, they ‘can’t’. Fitting elitism for a Democrat.
Do you have a gaiter? Yes or no?runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:40 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:27 amYes. Know your audience’s limitations. Enjoy your Sunday.
Well that’s grossly pedantic...simply assuming your audience has limitations and even if they were eager to learn, they ‘can’t’. Fitting elitism for a Democrat.
TLD has become nothing more than a crow......brings nothing but vitriol.
Do you have a gaiter? Yes or no? Why are you asking if I have a neck gaitor? just strange.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:40 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:27 amYes. Know your audience’s limitations. Enjoy your Sunday.
Well that’s grossly pedantic...simply assuming your audience has limitations and even if they were eager to learn, they ‘can’t’. Fitting elitism for a Democrat.
TLD has become nothing more than a crow......brings nothing but vitriol.
Just what I figured. I knew you wore a gaiter. So predictable it’s not funny....runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:16 pmWhy are you asking if I have a neck gaitor? just strange.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:40 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:10 pmrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:27 amYes. Know your audience’s limitations. Enjoy your Sunday.
Well that’s grossly pedantic...simply assuming your audience has limitations and even if they were eager to learn, they ‘can’t’. Fitting elitism for a Democrat.
TLD has become nothing more than a crow......brings nothing but vitriol.
I have gators for skiing, hunting and general winter warmth. A face mask is NOT needed. The science IS settled. W. H.O. and dr fauci, along with the CDC, said so. And said it again. And again
Just play golf. geek. Nothing harmful about golf courses....you know.....for or to the environment.
What has a larger carbon footprint? Surfing or playing golf?
I hate the activity. A dead person can do it. May not do it well but a dead body can go from top of a mountain to the bottom.
I remember taking my kids down this trail for the first time. Had to pull my son b/c he was snowboarding. Yes, I feel dead when skiing........but GOLF makes me feel alive.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:21 pmI hate the activity. A dead person can do it. May not do it well but a dead body can go from top of a mountain to the bottom.
My son snowboarded but had to give it up....runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:33 pmI remember taking my kids down this trail for the first time. Had to pull my son b/c he was snowboarding. Yes, I feel dead when skiing........but GOLF makes me feel alive.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:21 pmI hate the activity. A dead person can do it. May not do it well but a dead body can go from top of a mountain to the bottom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAx_NolGF14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6R6Q2icvl0
I guess he was “wrong”.DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:46 pm Sad cautionary tale ... ignorance and bigotry will not protect anyone from COVID-19.
A former Nashville council member, who believed the threat of coronavirus was being radically overblown, died from complications from Covid-19, officials said Monday.
Tony Tenpenny passed away over the weekend after more than five weeks in the hospital, fighting the virus that's sickened more 6.8 million Americans and killed at least 200,000, Nashville Vice Mayor Jim Shulman told NBC News.
... Over the past several months, Tenpenny has been very active on social media, voicing his support for President Donald Trump, opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement and expressing extreme skepticism about coronavirus.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex ... 9-n1240645
DocBarrister
YUP....absolutely fear pornTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pmI guess he was “wrong”.DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:46 pm Sad cautionary tale ... ignorance and bigotry will not protect anyone from COVID-19.
A former Nashville council member, who believed the threat of coronavirus was being radically overblown, died from complications from Covid-19, officials said Monday.
Tony Tenpenny passed away over the weekend after more than five weeks in the hospital, fighting the virus that's sickened more 6.8 million Americans and killed at least 200,000, Nashville Vice Mayor Jim Shulman told NBC News.
... Over the past several months, Tenpenny has been very active on social media, voicing his support for President Donald Trump, opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement and expressing extreme skepticism about coronavirus.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex ... 9-n1240645
DocBarrister
“Then on June 29, Tenpenny posted a meme that equated wearing a mask to being "manipulated to live in irrational fear" and willing "to be controlled by a socialist agenda."”
Fear porn
Yep. He was wrong....34 million AMERICAN people have Type 2 diabetes sport....he ain’t got to worry about fear porn any more.runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:57 pmYUP....absolutely fear pornTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pmI guess he was “wrong”.DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:46 pm Sad cautionary tale ... ignorance and bigotry will not protect anyone from COVID-19.
A former Nashville council member, who believed the threat of coronavirus was being radically overblown, died from complications from Covid-19, officials said Monday.
Tony Tenpenny passed away over the weekend after more than five weeks in the hospital, fighting the virus that's sickened more 6.8 million Americans and killed at least 200,000, Nashville Vice Mayor Jim Shulman told NBC News.
... Over the past several months, Tenpenny has been very active on social media, voicing his support for President Donald Trump, opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement and expressing extreme skepticism about coronavirus.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex ... 9-n1240645
DocBarrister
“Then on June 29, Tenpenny posted a meme that equated wearing a mask to being "manipulated to live in irrational fear" and willing "to be controlled by a socialist agenda."”
Fear porn
Tony Tenpenny had what kind of health issues? Oh....wait....he had diabetes.
exactly
but you just admitted that you side with him, that YOU don't wear a mask, while in Boston (and haven't answered WHEN the last time you walked around Boston without a facemask )Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:01 pmYep. He was wrong....34 million AMERICAN people have Type 2 diabetes sport....he ain’t got to worry about fear porn any more.runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:57 pmYUP....absolutely fear pornTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pmI guess he was “wrong”.DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:46 pm Sad cautionary tale ... ignorance and bigotry will not protect anyone from COVID-19.
A former Nashville council member, who believed the threat of coronavirus was being radically overblown, died from complications from Covid-19, officials said Monday.
Tony Tenpenny passed away over the weekend after more than five weeks in the hospital, fighting the virus that's sickened more 6.8 million Americans and killed at least 200,000, Nashville Vice Mayor Jim Shulman told NBC News.
... Over the past several months, Tenpenny has been very active on social media, voicing his support for President Donald Trump, opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement and expressing extreme skepticism about coronavirus.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex ... 9-n1240645
DocBarrister
“Then on June 29, Tenpenny posted a meme that equated wearing a mask to being "manipulated to live in irrational fear" and willing "to be controlled by a socialist agenda."”
Fear porn
Tony Tenpenny had what kind of health issues? Oh....wait....he had diabetes.
exactly
I grew up skiing the icy "mountains" south of Syracuse. No one wore helmets and we all were in neon. When I go out now anywhere around the country people without helmets are a vast minority. Lots of people back in neon for some reason...Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:21 pmI hate the activity. A dead person can do it. May not do it well but a dead body can go from top of a mountain to the bottom.
Don’t tell Russell....he sits on his seatbeltholmes435 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:11 pmI grew up skiing the icy "mountains" south of Syracuse. No one wore helmets and we all were in neon. When I go out now anywhere around the country people without helmets are a vast minority. Lots of people back in neon for some reason...Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:21 pmI hate the activity. A dead person can do it. May not do it well but a dead body can go from top of a mountain to the bottom.
In high school, our starting LSM's father died running into a tree. A couple of deaths a year up there was normal. Putting a helmet on now is like wearing a seat-belt.
