Trump's Russian Collusion

[Typical Lax Dad]

Who needs proof or evidence ? Tick, tock.

Absolutely! Casey Anthony and OJ were innocent as there was no proof or evidence. Happy New Year!

[Chips O'Toole]

That is a far different question than: what did he do as a candidate and since the election that is illegal and deviates from the "norm". Could be lots, could be not so much. I am getting tired of waiting though.

I always start with that time Trump fired Comey, told a couple of Russian agents right afterwards in the Oval Office that it had relieved a lot of pressure, then told NBC that he did it because of the whole Trump-Russia thing. If he were a more articulate person and had said "You see, Lester, Jim Comey was leading an investigation into my campaign about a conspiracy with Russia to influence the election, and knowing how much exposure I and others in my campaign had on that subject area, I decided to try to impede and obstruct that investigation as best I could, and I thought I would start with firing Comey," would you be more convinced that this was illegal?

I'm with you on tired of waiting.

[Typical Lax Dad]

That is a far different question than: what did he do as a candidate and since the election that is illegal and deviates from the "norm". Could be lots, could be not so much. I am getting tired of waiting though.

I always start with that time Trump fired Comey, told a couple of Russian agents right afterwards in the Oval Office that it had relieved a lot of pressure, then told NBC that he did it because of the whole Trump-Russia thing. If he were a more articulate person and had said "You see, Lester, Jim Comey was leading an investigation into my campaign about a conspiracy with Russia to influence the election, and knowing how much exposure I and others in my campaign had on that subject area, I decided to try to impede and obstruct that investigation as best I could, and I thought I would start with firing Comey," would you be more convinced that this was illegal?

I'm with you on tired of waiting.

With a case this important and a potential target being able to influence the course of the investigation, including witness tampering, I am glad Mueller is not bending to the media and the public:

http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5490169/pau ... rkin-debts

Again, Trump didn’t have to be involved. His campaign manager could have worked with Russian Intelligence to get Trump elected. Trump didn’t know Manafort...why not support an investigation into Manafort? Why offer a pardon to a convicted felon that he didn’t know? Why never a negative word about Putin or Flynn? Flynn has sang like a Canary and not a single criticism from Trump? It’s odd...

[seacoaster]

More speculating:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ion-223569

From the article:

"Intriguingly, the decision revealed that a regulator from Country A had filed a submission claiming that compliance with the subpoena would cause the Corporation to violate Country A’s law. So whoever Country A is, this matter captured its officials’ attention and prompted them to send filings to a faraway country to block the subpoena. Why does Country A care? And, what is it trying to hide?

So, from last week’s decision we learned that a foreign government was actively involved in blocking Mueller’s investigation. That fact is intriguing enough. In the ordinary course, that should have been the end of it. Although the state-owned Corporation filed an appeal with the Supreme Court, that Court receives roughly 7,000 petitions a year but acts in fewer than 200 of them. There was unanimity below -- all four judges (the District Court judge and the three Circuit Court judges) had agreed that the Corporation and Country A’s legal claims of sovereign immunity and of contrary foreign law were without merit. There was little reason for judicial watchers to expect anything beyond a quiet return to the grand jury and further proceedings there. We headed off for the holidays

And then came Roberts’ surprise Sunday decision. He is the “circuit justice” for the D.C. Circuit, meaning he is the justice assigned to receive emergency and other petitions arising from that circuit. Under Supreme Court rules, the circuit justice may act without consulting his or her colleagues to dispose of routine rulings. So, we should not read too much into the fact that it is the chief justice in particular who acted here.

But we can read a good deal into his decision to intervene at all. Although every judge below agreed there was ultimately no merit to the Corporation’s legal claims, Chief Justice Roberts evidently harbors some doubt. Something in the Corporation’s papers caught his attention. So rather than consigning this appeal to the discard pile with thousands of others, he has blocked the lower courts’ decisions until he can receive the government’s briefs defending those decisions. Those papers must be filed no later than New Year’s Eve. Once he receives the full briefing, he can reject the Corporation’s appeal, or he can advance the matter to the full Court for consideration.

Until then, we can only wonder at the remarkable circumstance that the chief justice of the United States has personally intervened, at the request of a foreign government through its corporate entity, in Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation. Only two days before, Court observers noted that in a high-profile asylum decision, Chief Justice Roberts had sided with his four liberal colleagues against the Trump administration. Many observers took that as evidence that Roberts was carefully seeking to preserve the Court’s institutional neutrality, integrity and balance.

What are we to make of his pre-Christmas intervention on behalf of Country A and the Corporation, and against Mueller’s office? We may know soon. Mueller’s office filed its submission early, on Friday evening. We’ll keep our eyes glued to the docket."

I think the author probably overblows the "personal intervention of the Chief Justice" angle here a bit. He is the circuit justice for the DC Circuit. Among the issues implicated by a subpoena on a foreign government-owned organization is foreign relations, into which the Court only reluctantly steps for the most part and then only tangentially. So the Chief is being circumspect, protecting the institutions involved, honoring the separation of powers, and making sure that the need for the information sought in the subpoena is somehow compelling and necessary. Still, a pretty good little mystery.

[youthathletics]

In reply to your latest post seacoaster. Brought this up on the SCOTUS thread last Sunday....It sure will be interesting to see what Roberts comes back with.

Almost seems like a precursor could be in the works for yet another snowball in motion.

[MDlaxfan76]

Who needs proof or evidence ? Tick, tock.

We all do; you just like to pretend that everyone save yourself is unreasonable. Happy New Year.

Indeed, Salty denies he's a Trumpist apologist, but 'tick tock' time is running out on the BS for all Trumpists.

It's fascinating to me that for quite awhile, the "proof or evidence" being demanded was simply re Trump et al lying as to whether they had even met with Russians during the campaign. The Trumpists were demanding proof that they'd even met. But, oops, that proof has been overwhelmingly demonstrated. Whole bunch of meetings and contacts, all sorts of lies. And we keep learning of more.

So, the Trumpist defense switched, to "so what, we lied, prove it's a crime". And when something is proven to be a crime, they switch to "it's just a process crime" or "everybody does it".

At some point, they'll be arguing that actual conspiracy to defraud the United States in coordination with Russians and other foreign adversaries, are "process crimes" and thus not worthy of prosecution (or impeachment in DJT's case).

We get it. But it truly is weird to watch.

[seacoaster]

In reply to your latest post seacoaster. Brought this up on the SCOTUS thread last Sunday....It sure will be interesting to see what Roberts comes back with.

Almost seems like a precursor could be in the works for yet another snowball in motion.

YA, thanks for the note. And Happy New Year to you and yours.

I missed the post to the SCOTUS thread; sorry about that. Your post over on that thread says, among other things, this: "Maybe the Russians are saying, if you got something, prove it?"

"Prove it" is for hearings and trial on the merits of the claim. Subpoenas are for gathering evidence, usually from non-parties to the litigation, third-arties who have knowledge of something material in an investigation or litigation. That's why I speculated that government-owned corporation is a conduit for money movement across borders, for whatever reasons. think it is more likely that whoever is fighting compliance with this subpoena is saying something akin to "Sh*t, we cannot disclose this stuff to American prosecutors and law enforcement."

[old salt]

MDLF76:
Indeed, Salty denies he's a Trumpist apologist, but 'tick tock' time is running out on the BS for all Trumpists.

What Salty thinks does not matter. What matters is what evidence Mueller delivers & whether or not it is sufficient for the voters to remove Trump from office -- in the 2020 election, or sooner, via their Congressional reps.

Every day Mueller delays guarantees another day of the Trump Presidency.

Russia just tested an indefensible hypersonic missile & a massive pre-programmable nuc torpedo.
Meanwhile our MSM & 1/2 of the government continue to promote the possibility that our CinC is compromised by Putin & push us closer to conflict with Russia.

If there's any there, there -- where's the sense of urgency ?

[MDlaxfan76]

In reply to your latest post seacoaster. Brought this up on the SCOTUS thread last Sunday....It sure will be interesting to see what Roberts comes back with.

Almost seems like a precursor could be in the works for yet another snowball in motion.

YA, thanks for the note. And Happy New Year to you and yours.

I missed the post to the SCOTUS thread; sorry about that. Your post over on that thread says, among other things, this: "Maybe the Russians are saying, if you got something, prove it?"

"Prove it" is for hearings and trial on the merits of the claim. Subpoenas are for gathering evidence, usually from non-parties to the litigation, third-arties who have knowledge of something material in an investigation or litigation. That's why I speculated that government-owned corporation is a conduit for money movement across borders, for whatever reasons. think it is more likely that whoever is fighting compliance with this subpoena is saying something akin to "Sh*t, we cannot disclose this stuff to American prosecutors and law enforcement."

Thanks for the explanation to YA about what subpoenas are about, vs hearings/trials. Indeed, that makes a ton more sense.

That's why Alpha Bank is speculated to be such a foreign country owned company.
I suspect that we'll hear more, at some point, about Cyprus-based banks as a point of exchange, but I'm not sure if any of those are actually owned by a foreign country. If any are, it could be the subpoena target.

I also agree that the likelihood of why Roberts took this up is because he knew darn well that magnitude of the importance of this specific matter and wanted to demonstrate a complete thoroughness of consideration of the legal issues of inter-country subpoenas such that the answer has the full weight of such consideration.

But that could be entirely wrong, so we will all need to just wait for his resolution. It will be after having received much more information, information the 4 lower court justices already have seen. Which apparently the prosecution (presumably Mueller team) provided well ahead of schedule.

[MDlaxfan76]

MDLF76:
Indeed, Salty denies he's a Trumpist apologist, but 'tick tock' time is running out on the BS for all Trumpists.

What Salty thinks does not matter. What matters is what evidence Mueller delivers & whether or not it is sufficient for the voters to remove Trump from office -- in the 2020 election, or sooner, via their Congressional reps.

Every day Mueller delays guarantees another day of the Trump Presidency.

Russia just tested an indefensible hypersonic missile with 16 nuc mirvs & a massive pre-programmable nuc torpedo.
Meanwhile our MSM & 1/2 of the government continue to promote the possibility that our CinC is compromised by Putin & push us closer to conflict with Russia.

If there's any there, there -- where's the sense of urgency ?

So, you now want this to be rushed in order to stop Trump from making bad decisions in foreign affairs, as adversaries continue to flaunt their sway over him??

And at the same time, you want to blame the MSM for "push us closer to conflict with Russia" rather than Putin? Yet call their new missile "indefensible"???

Listen, if you want a coup, just call for it. But if you want the rule of law to prevail, you're just going to need to be patient along with the rest of us.

But stop with the BS that this investigation hasn't already proven and revealed an enormous amount of lying to the American public, and various felonies committed by high ranking members of the Trump campaign and close circle. The investigation is rolling up one after another dishonest folks, one step from Trump himself.

"Tick tock" is what Trumpists are hearing, Mueller is doing his job methodically and the walls are closing in. Step by step. Overwhelming evidence at each step.

[old salt]

Either Mueller has evidence that leads to impeachment or he does not.
Time is running out for getting impeachment done before the next election.

Indicting Americans for bank fraud & taxi medallions, or Russian NRA lobbyists or Russian hackers who will never go to trial, will not get it done.

If Mueller does not deliver the kill shot soon, we can look forward to 2 more years of moving closer to conflict with Russia, as we are consumed with a campaign of witch hunt vs lies, suspicions & collusion conspiracy theories. The longer Mueller delays, the more his investigation will be portrayed as a Deep State campaign stunt.
Do you think the Wash Post's running scorecard of Trump's lies matters anymore ?

[youthathletics]

In reply to your latest post seacoaster. Brought this up on the SCOTUS thread last Sunday....It sure will be interesting to see what Roberts comes back with.

Almost seems like a precursor could be in the works for yet another snowball in motion.

YA, thanks for the note. And Happy New Year to you and yours.

I missed the post to the SCOTUS thread; sorry about that. Your post over on that thread says, among other things, this: "Maybe the Russians are saying, if you got something, prove it?"

"Prove it" is for hearings and trial on the merits of the claim. Subpoenas are for gathering evidence, usually from non-parties to the litigation, third-arties who have knowledge of something material in an investigation or litigation. That's why I speculated that government-owned corporation is a conduit for money movement across borders, for whatever reasons. think it is more likely that whoever is fighting compliance with this subpoena is saying something akin to "Sh*t, we cannot disclose this stuff to American prosecutors and law enforcement."

Happy New Year to you as well.

I do understand the process and appreciate the civil reply. My original post was much more directed at the behavior of the Russian company and that they even considered to challenge the Mueller indictment. If they know full well the US or Mueller will never bring this to a trial, then I see 1 of 3 options:(1) they are challenging Mueller (why I said calling his bluff), or (2) Mueller opened pandoras box and this company is in fear or wrong doing in front of Putin, which in the end can make Putin/Russia look bad or (3) this company was really an American fronted company or some type of shell company who knows when the onion is peeled back it will reveal some US citizens....maybe HRC and Obama

[Typical Lax Dad]

Either Mueller has evidence that leads to impeachment or he does not.
Time is running out for getting impeachment done before the next election.

Indicting Americans for bank fraud & taxi medallions, or Russian NRA lobbyists or Russian hackers who will never go to trial, will not get it done.

If Mueller does not deliver the kill shot soon, we can look forward to 2 more years of moving closer to conflict with Russia, as we are consumed with a campaign of witch hunt vs lies, suspicions & collusion conspiracy theories. The longer Mueller delays, the more his investigation will be portrayed as a Deep State campaign stunt.
Do you think the Wash Post's running scorecard of Trump's lies matters anymore ?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-relea ... 1/download

[a fan]

Either Mueller has evidence that leads to impeachment or he does not.

That's surely one reason he's taking his time. We're dealing with Trump fans, remember? And he's POTUS, not some random guy that Mueller can simply indict with no consequences should he be wrong.

Look at how you, personally, have torn apart just the investigation. Mueller has to somehow, magically, be utterly flawless and perfect in building a case. Cause if he isn't....and let's be frank, even if he is..... out come the tinfoil hats, and claims of Deep State. I've enjoyed listening to FoxNation who have concluded, and this should come as a complete and utter surprise, that Mueller is the most corrupt human to have walked this Earth. While, obviously, Trump is a doe-eyed saint who has never lied, even about his cherry tree.

The more crazy Trump fans get, the more meticulous Mueller needs to be. You are ASKING him to take his sweet time every time you go over every single detail of anyone and everyone who dared to investigate Trump.

Can anyone name the FBI agents who "went after" Bill Clinton? Bet there isn't a day that goes by that Bill doesn't wish he had thought of that tactic.


I forgot to add: Happy New Year, everyone!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Either Mueller has evidence that leads to impeachment or he does not.

That's surely one reason he's taking his time. We're dealing with Trump fans, remember? And he's POTUS, not some random guy that Mueller can use

Look at how you, personally, have torn apart just the investigation. Mueller has to somehow, magically, be utterly flawless and perfect in building a case. Cause if he isn't....and let's be frank, even if he is..... out come the tinfoil hats, and claims of Deep State. I've enjoyed listening to FoxNation who have concluded, and this should come as a complete and utter surprise, concluded the Mueller is the most corrupt human to have walked this Earth. While, obviously, Trump is a doe-eyed saint who has never lied, even about his cherry tree.

The more crazy Trump fans get, the more meticulous Mueller needs to be. You are ASKING him to take his sweet time every time you go over every single detail of anyone and everyone who dared to investigate Trump.

Can anyone name the FBI agents who "went after" Bill Clinton? Bet there isn't a day that goes by that Bill doesn't wish he had thought of that tactic.

I didn't see where Mueller's marching orders are to find evidence to impeach Trump....Russia developed that missle technology in just 18 mos. remarkable. Maddow and O'Donnell have stunted our weapons development program.

[old salt]

Russia has just demonstrated that missile technology.

Maddow & O'Donnell are in no hurry. They're happy to use the Mueller probe as their nightly programming, right up until election night. Keep bleeding Trump & propagating the collusion kompromat narrative they've been hyping since Trump became a candidate.

for afan -- impeachment is different than a criminal prosecution. The jury pool is already tainted. The most likely way to remove Trump (before the election) is to leverage him into resignation with pardons from Pence for himself & family.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Russia has just demonstrated that missile technology.

Maddow & O'Donnell are in no hurry. They're happy to use the Mueller probe as their nightly programming, right up until election night. Keep bleeding Trump & propagating the collusion kompromat narrative they've been hyping since Trump became a candidate.

for afan -- impeachment is different than a criminal prosecution. The jury pool is already tainted. The most likely way to remove Trump (before the election) is to leverage him into resignation with pardons from Pence for himself & family.

The Mueller probe is good for ratings....Maddow and O’Donnell should be more interested in helping the President.

[a fan]

for afan -- impeachment is different than a criminal prosecution..

I agree completely. I'm sure Mueller does, too.

The whole thing is a mess. You know that even if Mueller has what would normally be a slam dunk case that leads to a plea, the stakes are entirely different, and so is the potential defendant......Mueller has to have everything----everything----buttoned up perfectly.

There's NO WAY he can do that quickly. There's not one millimeter of room for sloppiness. The nature of his task means that he MUST take his time and be as thorough as possible.

Personally, I think he found the rat's nest that is Trump's loans and quid pro from Russian banks, but none of it is smoking gun material. How do you proceed?

For many, the lies surrounding just the letter of intent for the Moscow Trump Tower is enough. Add in all the dozens of weird Russian connections, like the Hotel meeting with a Russian spy, and it's more than enough to cast doubt on all his conflicts if you are a boilerplate conservative American.

But this isn't the Reagan or even the Clinton era. And Trumpy has a little R by his name. So Mueller is between a rock and a hard place, just like Comey was. And as usual, a lying politician put a Federal investigator in this bad spot.

[ggait]

Mueller volunteered for the Marines and was rejected for a legit medical condition. Went home, healed up for a year, and then was accepted the second time. Earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. All before the draft was re-instated.

The tennis/golf/squash playing Trump had his rich dad arrange a fake medical diagnosis to dodge the draft. He received a PH as a gift, to which he said "I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier."

Given how you present yourself, Randy, it just beggars belief who you choose to endlessly apologize for and who you subject to microscopic critique.

My two dollars are on 2019 turning out to be the Year of Mueller. Although it won't take all year. My spidey sense is that we'll know the close-to-full story by Memorial Day. But I hope there's no impeachment no matter what Mueller produces.

Because the best thing for the country would be for the voters to show Trump the door. Kasich, Bloomberg, Beto, Flake, Pocahontas, Hickenlooper, Romney, Biden and Bernie all look good to me. Anybody but Trump. [Actually, anybody but Trump or Ted Cruz.]

Happy New Year to all!!

[DMac]

I missed that little gem, Trump accepting another man's Purple Heart and putting it in his pocket. There really is no bottom to this low life POS. No news here, but this man has absolutely no integrity, is void of moral character, has no respect for anyone or anything. Who TF would take another man's Purple Heart even if offered???? What are you going to do with that? Hang it on the wall next to your "strong letter" from your doctor telling Uncle Sam all about your bone spurs?
http://launch.newsinc.com/share.html?tr ... d=31218742
The best part of the story is, turns out the guy lied to our revolting Prez, he's still got the real medal he earned, Prez Bad Heels was given a phony dime store replica.
I know, I know, don't listen to what he says, look at what he does. I just did and I've seen enough.