All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

China injected hundreds of thousands with COVID 19 vaccine

Let’s see if Trump eats that cheese.

[ggait]

The population-adjusted death toll in the U.S. surpassed Western Europe’s two months ago. The U.S. toll is far above those of France, Germany, Canada, Japan, Australia and many other countries — and is on pace to overtake Italy’s in the next few days and Britain’s and Spain’s not long after that.

I've been making this point for months.

If you look at deaths over the last week/month/two months/three months, the USA is the Washington Generals of the First World.

We have been so bad for so long, that we have now passed (on a cumulative basis) France, Italy, Sweden. We're on track to pass Spain and the UK in a little while. All those countries were completely horrendous at the outset. But they figured it out and are doing fine (at least for now). Same goes for NY/NJ.

[a fan]

The population-adjusted death toll in the U.S. surpassed Western Europe’s two months ago. The U.S. toll is far above those of France, Germany, Canada, Japan, Australia and many other countries — and is on pace to overtake Italy’s in the next few days and Britain’s and Spain’s not long after that.

I've been making this point for months.

If you look at deaths over the last week/month/two months/three months, the USA is the Washington Generals of the First World.

We have been so bad for so long, that we have now passed (on a cumulative basis) France, Italy, Sweden. We're on track to pass Spain and the UK in a little while. All those countries were completely horrendous at the outset. But they figured it out and are doing fine (at least for now). Same goes for NY/NJ.

It's not just that-----we also had a massive GDP drop. Watching the mental gymnastics some are doing to tell us that we handled this well is just painful.

And I'll be asking folks about their 2021 health care premiums in a few months....that oughta be hilarious.

We're circling the drain as a nation. Education, infrastructure, access to health care for all citizens. Every metric, we're falling apart. I have NO CLUE how Americans don't see this.

To their credit? The left does. The right is like Badghad Bob, telling themselves that everything is fine.

Reagan's Republicanism----while was eventually embraced by the Clintons-----has failed.

Add in the arrival of FoxNation, and the inability to criticize one's own party, and hold them to account?

We're doomed without some massive changes....and fast.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The population-adjusted death toll in the U.S. surpassed Western Europe’s two months ago. The U.S. toll is far above those of France, Germany, Canada, Japan, Australia and many other countries — and is on pace to overtake Italy’s in the next few days and Britain’s and Spain’s not long after that.

I've been making this point for months.

If you look at deaths over the last week/month/two months/three months, the USA is the Washington Generals of the First World.

We have been so bad for so long, that we have now passed (on a cumulative basis) France, Italy, Sweden. We're on track to pass Spain and the UK in a little while. All those countries were completely horrendous at the outset. But they figured it out and are doing fine (at least for now). Same goes for NY/NJ.

It's not just that-----we also had a massive GDP drop. Watching the mental gymnastics some are doing to tell us that we handled this well is just painful.

And I'll be asking folks about their 2021 health care premiums in a few months....that oughta be hilarious.

We're circling the drain as a nation. Education, infrastructure, access to health care for all citizens. Every metric, we're falling apart. I have NO CLUE how Americans don't see this.

To their credit? The left does. The right is like Badghad Bob, telling themselves that everything is fine.

Reagan's Republicanism----while was eventually embraced by the Clintons-----has failed.

Add in the arrival of FoxNation, and the inability to criticize one's own party, and hold them to account?

We're doomed without some massive changes....and fast.

I contemplated this a few years ago. Is the peak of the American empire behind us and are when in the fall of the American empire. I was laughed at by the usual clowns here for considering it.

[kramerica.inc]

NFL is testing at facilities during the week, but hugging at the 50 and tackling and breathing on eachother for 60 minutes.
What is the testing protocol at the protests? Sturgis is little different than the protests that have been going on.
The only difference I see is Sturgis was one weekend, and the protests have been going on for the past 4 months.

I thought I said I am against sporting events given the health risk. IF you believe the NFL testing protocol is no better than 0 testing protocol for a motorcycle rally, you are stupid. As for the protestors, anyone not wearing a mask and keeping their distance is stupid also.... EDIT: in my opinion

My point is that NFL is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Showing off its mask safety while doing some incredibly dumb things a second later. All for show. No substance to it.

Regardless of their "intentions" for breaking protocols, I think Sturgis and the BM protestors are the same level of idiot when it comes to Corona protocols.

[Typical Lax Dad]

NFL is testing at facilities during the week, but hugging at the 50 and tackling and breathing on eachother for 60 minutes.
What is the testing protocol at the protests? Sturgis is little different than the protests that have been going on.
The only difference I see is Sturgis was one weekend, and the protests have been going on for the past 4 months.

I thought I said I am against sporting events given the health risk. IF you believe the NFL testing protocol is no better than 0 testing protocol for a motorcycle rally, you are stupid. As for the protestors, anyone not wearing a mask and keeping their distance is stupid also.... EDIT: in my opinion

My point is that NFL is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Showing off its mask safety while doing some incredibly dumb things a second later. All for show. No substance to it.

Regardless of their "intentions" for breaking protocols, I think Sturgis and the BM protestors are the same level of idiot when it comes to Corona protocols.

I don’t care what the NFL says. Sporting events aren’t helpful. Essentially a gravy train. Other countries aren’t saddled down with sports and dining and drinking like this country is. It’s part of the reason why we can’t get out off our own way. Most people are stupid.

Btw, were protesters gathered in bars and restaurants drinking and socializing? It’s not quite the same thing. Another false equivalency but neither is smart.

[Bart]

Interesting conversation, seems the CDC is using Ct values greater than 30 to define positives. https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/stat ... 64801?s=20


THis study implies what the poster on Twitter is saying...
https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.co ... ischarged/

Correlation between successful isolation of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in cell culture and cycle threshold (Ct) value of quantitative reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) targeting E gene suggests that patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) with Ct above 33 to 34 are not contagious and can be discharged from hospital care or strict confinement, according to a brief report published in the European Journal of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases

This stuff is certainly interesting. Maybe they (labs and CDC, etc) are using this high Ct as a higher standard, which provides them wiggle room to argue they wanted a much higher safety factor? Unfortunately the article cited, implies differently, which appears to skew the numbers we are seeing in favor of the virus still being highly active..and yet, states are relaxing more and more.

There is certainly a disconnect between what we hear and read, vs. what we are seeing.

Very simple, quick explanation of Cycle threshold, if anyone is interested: https://www.wvdl.wisc.edu/wp-content/up ... alues1.pdf

Help us out here. if Ct value is inverse to a positive, then why is anything greater than 33-34 being used to indicate a positive/contagious person by the CDC/Labs?
Based on this data, researchers deduced that patients with Ct values > 34 do not excrete infectious viral particles and thus may be discharged.

Good question. I don't have a good answer. After talking with someone who does RT-qPCR alot, we both just kind of shrugged our shoulders. Perhaps with such high cycle counts they can be certain a false is a false? Err on the side of false positives rather than false negatives? The guidelines show the tests have Level of detection down to 10 virus particle/microliter titers but that is with cycles in the 34 - 36 range depending on machine and extraction kit used. Perhaps this has something to do with it? Sorry I do not have a better answer.

On another interesting nerd note. Here is a preprint of a paper that looks at Ab binding and how to design antibody "cocktails" to take into account "escape" mutations to occur that will effect the binding of a single antibody. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 0.292078v1

[MDlaxfan76]

About 2 minutes in you get a sense of who supports Trump and why this pandemic will continue to rage through America.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... tn-vpx.cnn

MD is our new expert on masks, so I thought I'd ask him to explain this graph please:


Masks.jpg


I'll wait.

please provide the source.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Interesting conversation, seems the CDC is using Ct values greater than 30 to define positives. https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/stat ... 64801?s=20


THis study implies what the poster on Twitter is saying...
https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.co ... ischarged/

Correlation between successful isolation of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in cell culture and cycle threshold (Ct) value of quantitative reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) targeting E gene suggests that patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) with Ct above 33 to 34 are not contagious and can be discharged from hospital care or strict confinement, according to a brief report published in the European Journal of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases

This stuff is certainly interesting. Maybe they (labs and CDC, etc) are using this high Ct as a higher standard, which provides them wiggle room to argue they wanted a much higher safety factor? Unfortunately the article cited, implies differently, which appears to skew the numbers we are seeing in favor of the virus still being highly active..and yet, states are relaxing more and more.

There is certainly a disconnect between what we hear and read, vs. what we are seeing.

Very simple, quick explanation of Cycle threshold, if anyone is interested: https://www.wvdl.wisc.edu/wp-content/up ... alues1.pdf

Help us out here. if Ct value is inverse to a positive, then why is anything greater than 33-34 being used to indicate a positive/contagious person by the CDC/Labs?
Based on this data, researchers deduced that patients with Ct values > 34 do not excrete infectious viral particles and thus may be discharged.

Good question. I don't have a good answer. After talking with someone who does RT-qPCR alot, we both just kind of shrugged our shoulders. Perhaps with such high cycle counts they can be certain a false is a false? Err on the side of false positives rather than false negatives? The guidelines show the tests have Level of detection down to 10 virus particle/microliter titers but that is with cycles in the 34 - 36 range depending on machine and extraction kit used. Perhaps this has something to do with it? Sorry I do not have a better answer.

On another interesting nerd note. Here is a preprint of a paper that looks at Ab binding and how to design antibody "cocktails" to take into account "escape" mutations to occur that will effect the binding of a single antibody. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 0.292078v1

Thanks for the link. I am sending it to my nerd wife.

[MDlaxfan76]

About 2 minutes in you get a sense of who supports Trump and why this pandemic will continue to rage through America.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... tn-vpx.cnn

MD is our new expert on masks, so I thought I'd ask him to explain this graph please:


Masks.jpg


I'll wait.

please provide the source.

I'm waiting for your source of that graph, Petey, but meanwhile I did a teensy bit of investigating...Hawaii does not have, nor has had, a mask mandate for outside other than if waiting to get into an establishment. https://governor.hawaii.gov/wp-content/ ... signed.pdf

Your graph says Honolulu...the Mayor, Kirk Caldwell, proposed an outdoor mask mandate in early July but walked that back by the end of July....so, no mandate actually went into place.

So, it would appear that your source of that graph is attempting to mislead you...some might call that a "lie".

Here's the graph of Hawaii as a whole:

[MDlaxfan76]

NFL is testing at facilities during the week, but hugging at the 50 and tackling and breathing on eachother for 60 minutes.
What is the testing protocol at the protests? Sturgis is little different than the protests that have been going on.
The only difference I see is Sturgis was one weekend, and the protests have been going on for the past 4 months.

I thought I said I am against sporting events given the health risk. IF you believe the NFL testing protocol is no better than 0 testing protocol for a motorcycle rally, you are stupid. As for the protestors, anyone not wearing a mask and keeping their distance is stupid also.... EDIT: in my opinion

My point is that NFL is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Showing off its mask safety while doing some incredibly dumb things a second later. All for show. No substance to it.

Regardless of their "intentions" for breaking protocols, I think Sturgis and the BM protestors are the same level of idiot when it comes to Corona protocols.

I'm a little PO'd at my mom who just went to lunch with her lady friends at a local golf club. Knuckleheads sitting close to one another, no one has been tested except my mom about two weeks ago due to a known direct exposure. They all think the others are being careful and don't see anyone, except when they do stuff like this...

But ahhh, big difference with being with 20-30 people in close proximity, none tested, all happy to do the same sort of things every other day of the week in their individual lives. Proud to not wear a mask, defiant about it. Make that a couple 100 high risk takers interacting in close proximity, none tested, or several thousand = Sturgis.

Protests not as bad, low if any testing, certainly none required, but high mask compliance as a proportion. Likely substantial incidence of virus, but some mitigation through high mask compliance. But some knuckleheads not wearing masks, most or all the time, endangering others. Better than Sturgis. But knuckleheads, included.

Then we have the NFL 'bubble' environments, intensive regular testing and swift isolation...so known very low incidence level among the group...basically a much larger 'pod' of low risk interactions. Does it make sense to still follow some social distancing most of the time... sure. But these are low risk interactions given known low incidence.

Better than Sturgis and protests by a very wide margin.
Not just for show, simply much lower risk because of the testing.

Will it be enough? Dunno.

[Typical Lax Dad]

About 2 minutes in you get a sense of who supports Trump and why this pandemic will continue to rage through America.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... tn-vpx.cnn

MD is our new expert on masks, so I thought I'd ask him to explain this graph please:


Masks.jpg


I'll wait.

please provide the source.

I'm waiting for your source of that graph, Petey, but meanwhile I did a teensy bit of investigating...Hawaii does not have, nor has had, a mask mandate for outside other than if waiting to get into an establishment. https://governor.hawaii.gov/wp-content/ ... signed.pdf

Your graph says Honolulu...the Mayor, Kirk Caldwell, proposed an outdoor mask mandate in early July but walked that back by the end of July....so, no mandate actually went into place.

So, it would appear that your source of that graph is attempting to mislead you...some might call that a "lie".

Here's the graph of Hawaii as a whole:

Ramped up when vacationers from Florida showed up.

[old salt]

Europe passes US in new covid cases, re-emerging as a hotsopt

Paralleling the US, as both open up.

[CU88]

"We just want to keep politics about of sports"

Ok. No more flyovers, no more anthem, no more flag, no more cops getting a special greeting on the jumbotron. None of that forced patriotism turd. Deal?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Europe passes US in new covid cases, re-emerging as a hotsopt

Paralleling the US, as both open up.

You can’t compare the two.

[old salt]

It's not just that-----we also had a massive GDP drop. Watching the mental gymnastics some are doing to tell us that we handled this well is just painful.

And I'll be asking folks about their 2021 health care premiums in a few months....that oughta be hilarious.

We're circling the drain as a nation. Education, infrastructure, access to health care for all citizens. Every metric, we're falling apart. I have NO CLUE how Americans don't see this.

To their credit? The left does. The right is like Badghad Bob, telling themselves that everything is fine.

Reagan's Republicanism----while was eventually embraced by the Clintons-----has failed.

Add in the arrival of FoxNation, and the inability to criticize one's own party, and hold them to account?

We're doomed without some massive changes....and fast.

I contemplated this a few years ago. Is the peak of the American empire behind us and are when in the fall of the American empire. I was laughed at by the usual clowns here for considering it.

The rest of the world has been closing the gap on us for decades. That can be interpreted as our decline or their rise.

IMHO -- the US Empire peaked after the end of the Cold War, when we signed up for a New World Order, with the US as globo-cop, going all in for free trade & open markets, opening the richest market in the world, with little to no restrictions. Our wealthy elite have flourished, our middle class has stagnated, our working class has fallen behind. We have become more of a service economy, less of a production economy. Our education system is the product of the boomer flower power generation in academe & their self-loathing version of our history & heritage. You can see their spawn nightly on our streets, fashionably clad in Anfifa black hoodies, masks & backpacks for their riot gear.

[old salt]

Sturgis super spreader event ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ronavirus/

...260 cases in 11 states tied directly to the event, according to a survey of health departments by The Washington Post.

...the true scope of infections stemming from the rally that ran from Aug. 7 to Aug. 16 is unlikely to ever be known.

...just over two weeks after the conclusion of the rally, the Midwest and the Dakotas in particular are seeing a spike in coronavirus cases even as infections decline or plateau in the rest of the country. South Dakota’s seven-day averages for new cases stood at 347 on Sept. 2 compared to 107 two weeks earlier and its total caseload was 14,003, up from 10,566, according to The Post’s tracking. In North Dakota, the seven-day averages for new cases was 257, up from 142 two weeks earlier and its total caseload was 12,267, compared to 8,968.

The rally is not solely to blame; besides the fallout from Sturgis, Ehresmann and other health officials attribute much of the increase in the Midwest to people not following public health guidelines, not wearing masks and attending social gatherings such as weddings and funerals.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's not just that-----we also had a massive GDP drop. Watching the mental gymnastics some are doing to tell us that we handled this well is just painful.

And I'll be asking folks about their 2021 health care premiums in a few months....that oughta be hilarious.

We're circling the drain as a nation. Education, infrastructure, access to health care for all citizens. Every metric, we're falling apart. I have NO CLUE how Americans don't see this.

To their credit? The left does. The right is like Badghad Bob, telling themselves that everything is fine.

Reagan's Republicanism----while was eventually embraced by the Clintons-----has failed.

Add in the arrival of FoxNation, and the inability to criticize one's own party, and hold them to account?

We're doomed without some massive changes....and fast.

I contemplated this a few years ago. Is the peak of the American empire behind us and are when in the fall of the American empire. I was laughed at by the usual clowns here for considering it.

The rest of the world has been closing the gap on us for decades. That can be interpreted as our decline or their rise.

IMHO -- the US Empire peaked after the end of the Cold War, when we signed up for a New World Order, with the US as globo-cop, going all in for free trade & open markets, opening the richest market in the world, with little to no restrictions. Our wealthy elite have flourished, our middle class has stagnated, our working class has fallen behind. We have become more of a service economy, less of a production economy. Our education system is the product of the boomer flower power generation in academe & their self-loathing version of our history & heritage. You can see their spawn nightly on our streets, fashionably clad in Anfifa black hoodies, masks & backpacks for their riot gear.

What does self loathing have to do with math and science.

[ggait]

Europe passes US in new covid cases, re-emerging as a hotsopt

Paralleling the US, as both open up.

You can’t compare the two.

Actually easy to compare. We lose in that comparison.

Yesterday USA reported 39k new cases. 311 million pop.

Europe reported 39k too. 48 countries, including Russia, eastern Europe, Scandinavia, etc. 748 million pop.

But Europe does need to keep its guard up. In particular, France is heating back up. 10k new cases yesterday.

[MDlaxfan76]

Europe passes US in new covid cases, re-emerging as a hotsopt

Paralleling the US, as both open up.

You can’t compare the two.

Actually easy to compare. We lose in that comparison.

Yesterday USA reported 39k new cases. 311 million pop.

Europe reported 39k too. 48 countries, including Russia, eastern Europe, Scandinavia, etc. 748 million pop.

But Europe does need to keep its guard up.

Gee them facts...