cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:14 pm
I think you're making a very flawed assumption cradle re China.
They
are making massive investments in the development of clean technologies. Truly massive.
If we don't get off our butts and do so too, they will achieve far greater scale in the production of these technologies, just for their own domestic implementation, and will dominate the market worldwide as they will be far down the experience curve in production and tech development.
This is happening with or without us.
Where you are correct is that China is so enormous that their own implementation at home depends upon the pace of their transformation to a consumer-driven domestic economy from an export economy. They're trying to get that balance and transformation right, but they know that as economic standards rise for a burgeoning Chinese middle class, the demands for clean air, environment at home will rise in turn.
They see that inevitability and are making huge technology investments in anticipation.
However, because the overall economy is so huge and relatively less developed, as it grows and cleaner tech is implemented, they will continue to be on average less clean than parts of the world further down the development scale.
But the spending is and will be huge in comparison to our own, simply because they are so large, unless we ramp up faster our own investments and work our own experience curve effects and, thus, can compete effectively from volume worldwide.
The good news is that much of this is already happening, the question is whether we want to be leaders or just consumers.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/28/asia/chi ... index.html
MD you wax so eloquently like a Philadelphia lawyer in a 3000 dollar Armani suit. I would believe any nonsense trumps says long before I would believe anything that the chicom government puts out to the west. The chicoms want to and have every intention of becoming the most dominant military force on the planet. The chicoms stating they want to become friends of the environment is all window dressing to what they really want. What really astounds me MD... they say it and you believe it.
Those rose colored glasses can make anything look real purdy.
I wouldn't know an Armani suit if it bit me...
I've paid close attention to what my son tells me, not what the Chinese government says. The Chinese government is the opposite of trustworthy, they believe that all is fair in reaching their objectives, so lying is certainly one tool.
However, what they are actually doing is observable. And there's lots of analysis of what they're doing and why that exists for us to read and watch and consider.
The analysis of the government's motivations doesn't include some sort of altruistic 'friend of the environment' motivation, but rather the self-serving reality that the growing middle class is demanding better living conditions and has had a window on the world. the pace of that growing demand will only increase as affluence grows.
The government is not filled with stupid people, but rather those who have risen based on their own 'merit' within the Party hierarchy. And they're forward thinking, with much longer horizons than our short election cycles...that's an advantage of their system.
Another advantage is that when they commit to something it happens fast. My son said they announced a new trash separation policy and two weeks later every apartment building had new labels on their outside trash receptacles, every office had new receptacles inside, and the operation was in full swing...countrywide. Buildings go up amazingly fast, the infrastructure is state of the art...because they decided to do so.
Now, with those advantages come disadvantages, IMO, but that's not the point of this discussion about their view of the environment.
They know that clean energy tech is the future, their own populace is demanding it, and they've decided to use it to drive international competitive advantage and markets.
It's self serving, not altruistic, though the notion of devotion to family and community over individual could eventually be translated to whole earth responsibilities, but I don't think they're there yet on that one. They see pretty much everything through their 100 year plan for China. I wouldn't hold my breath on that changing soon.
But we
can recognize what is driving them and align our interests where possible and compete like heck where we can.
But we're still dawdling (relatively speaking) from a national standpoint.
Maybe he will have a surf board handy?
