Orange Duce

[DocBarrister]

Zach Fuentes won about $4.5 million in federal contracts under shady circumstances. He and his company are under investigation.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ec8 ... 3dba3cf8a2

I can imagine a fair number of reasons why Fuentes would want to lie in support of Trump.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Doesn't it stand to reason that General Kelly understands that many, perhaps most, people may interpret his silence as confirmation of the Trump statements rather than anything else? "I never heard the President say what is being attributed to him in that article." Do you not see that the absence of that easy statement, through a spokesperson or a media drop, seems confirmatory?

It's not that simple. There were several things alleged in that article on different occasions. You comment on one, your silence on the others is misconstrued.

Kelly made it clear that he did not volunteer to return to govt service. He was asked to by his good friends Mattis & Dunford.
Based on the way he was treated by the media, & then by Trump, it is not surprising that he just wants to be left alone.
He never wanted to play these political/media gotcha games.

Totally get that, and I don't blame General Keely one bit for eschewing the media circus. By you understand what I am saying: his silence in the face of these astonishing comments attributed to the President are, I think, increasingly understood as confirmation. General Kelly doesn't need to play; he needs only to issue a statement consisting of the sentence I typed above. He could add: "I will have no further comment on this or my time as WH COS or as Secretary of the DHS."

Perhaps he no longer feels a duty to help Trump out of another mess entirely of his own making.

...& if he speaks up, Doc will trash him for his current job with an ICE detention facility contractor.

[DocBarrister]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

duplicate post

[old salt]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

[seacoaster]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Doesn't it stand to reason that General Kelly understands that many, perhaps most, people may interpret his silence as confirmation of the Trump statements rather than anything else? "I never heard the President say what is being attributed to him in that article." Do you not see that the absence of that easy statement, through a spokesperson or a media drop, seems confirmatory?

It's not that simple. There were several things alleged in that article on different occasions. You comment on one, your silence on the others is misconstrued.

Kelly made it clear that he did not volunteer to return to govt service. He was asked to by his good friends Mattis & Dunford.
Based on the way he was treated by the media, & then by Trump, it is not surprising that he just wants to be left alone.
He never wanted to play these political/media gotcha games.

Totally get that, and I don't blame General Keely one bit for eschewing the media circus. By you understand what I am saying: his silence in the face of these astonishing comments attributed to the President are, I think, increasingly understood as confirmation. General Kelly doesn't need to play; he needs only to issue a statement consisting of the sentence I typed above. He could add: "I will have no further comment on this or my time as WH COS or as Secretary of the DHS."

Perhaps he no longer feels a duty to help Trump out of another mess entirely of his own making.

...& if he speaks up, Doc will trash him for his current job with an ICE detention facility contractor.

You and I can leave Doc out of this. Maybe General Kelly supports Vice President Biden.

[old salt]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Doesn't it stand to reason that General Kelly understands that many, perhaps most, people may interpret his silence as confirmation of the Trump statements rather than anything else? "I never heard the President say what is being attributed to him in that article." Do you not see that the absence of that easy statement, through a spokesperson or a media drop, seems confirmatory?

It's not that simple. There were several things alleged in that article on different occasions. You comment on one, your silence on the others is misconstrued.

Kelly made it clear that he did not volunteer to return to govt service. He was asked to by his good friends Mattis & Dunford.
Based on the way he was treated by the media, & then by Trump, it is not surprising that he just wants to be left alone.
He never wanted to play these political/media gotcha games.

Totally get that, and I don't blame General Keely one bit for eschewing the media circus. By you understand what I am saying: his silence in the face of these astonishing comments attributed to the President are, I think, increasingly understood as confirmation. General Kelly doesn't need to play; he needs only to issue a statement consisting of the sentence I typed above. He could add: "I will have no further comment on this or my time as WH COS or as Secretary of the DHS."

Perhaps he no longer feels a duty to help Trump out of another mess entirely of his own making.

...& if he speaks up, Doc will trash him for his current job with an ICE detention facility contractor.

You and I can leave Doc out of this. Maybe General Kelly supports Vice President Biden.

.. ...it's not that easy.

Re Kelly -- I'm reminded of the military acronym about a change in attitude once you have your orders for you next assignment in hand,
FIGMO -- F it, I've got my orders. (outta here)

[DocBarrister]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

Isn’t it interesting that the folks who complain about “PC” culture are the same ones who seem frustrated that they cannot express their bigotries openly and without criticism?

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

Isn’t it interesting that the folks who complain about “PC” culture are the same ones who seem frustrated that they cannot express their bigotries openly and without criticism?

DocBarrister

Did your hero Mike Nifong teach you these accusatory questioning techniques ?

[seacoaster]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Doesn't it stand to reason that General Kelly understands that many, perhaps most, people may interpret his silence as confirmation of the Trump statements rather than anything else? "I never heard the President say what is being attributed to him in that article." Do you not see that the absence of that easy statement, through a spokesperson or a media drop, seems confirmatory?

It's not that simple. There were several things alleged in that article on different occasions. You comment on one, your silence on the others is misconstrued.

Kelly made it clear that he did not volunteer to return to govt service. He was asked to by his good friends Mattis & Dunford.
Based on the way he was treated by the media, & then by Trump, it is not surprising that he just wants to be left alone.
He never wanted to play these political/media gotcha games.

Totally get that, and I don't blame General Keely one bit for eschewing the media circus. By you understand what I am saying: his silence in the face of these astonishing comments attributed to the President are, I think, increasingly understood as confirmation. General Kelly doesn't need to play; he needs only to issue a statement consisting of the sentence I typed above. He could add: "I will have no further comment on this or my time as WH COS or as Secretary of the DHS."

Perhaps he no longer feels a duty to help Trump out of another mess entirely of his own making.

...& if he speaks up, Doc will trash him for his current job with an ICE detention facility contractor.

You and I can leave Doc out of this. Maybe General Kelly supports Vice President Biden.

.. ...it's not that easy.

Re Kelly -- I'm reminded of the military acronym about a change in attitude once you have your orders for you next assignment in hand,
FIGMO -- F it, I've got my orders. (outta here)

OK, do the calypso with me -- jeez. His silence is, no mater how you slice it or analogize it or ascribe to it an acronym that doesn't quite work, hurting the President.

[DocBarrister]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

Isn’t it interesting that the folks who complain about “PC” culture are the same ones who seem frustrated that they cannot express their bigotries openly and without criticism?

DocBarrister

Did your hero Mike Nifong teach you these accusatory questioning techniques ?

Isn’t your master and idol, Vladimir Putin, and his FSB (KGB) thugs, the real experts on “accusatory questioning techniques?”

Besides, I am not questioning you ... I am convicting you with your own past actions and words on this forum.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

Isn’t it interesting that the folks who complain about “PC” culture are the same ones who seem frustrated that they cannot express their bigotries openly and without criticism?

DocBarrister

Did your hero Mike Nifong teach you these accusatory questioning techniques ?

Isn’t your master and idol, Vladimir Putin, and his FSB (KGB) thugs, the real experts on “accusatory questioning techniques?”

Besides, I am not questioning you ... I am convicting you with your own past actions and words on this forum.

DocBarrister

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?

[old salt]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Doesn't it stand to reason that General Kelly understands that many, perhaps most, people may interpret his silence as confirmation of the Trump statements rather than anything else? "I never heard the President say what is being attributed to him in that article." Do you not see that the absence of that easy statement, through a spokesperson or a media drop, seems confirmatory?

It's not that simple. There were several things alleged in that article on different occasions. You comment on one, your silence on the others is misconstrued.

Kelly made it clear that he did not volunteer to return to govt service. He was asked to by his good friends Mattis & Dunford.
Based on the way he was treated by the media, & then by Trump, it is not surprising that he just wants to be left alone.
He never wanted to play these political/media gotcha games.

Totally get that, and I don't blame General Keely one bit for eschewing the media circus. By you understand what I am saying: his silence in the face of these astonishing comments attributed to the President are, I think, increasingly understood as confirmation. General Kelly doesn't need to play; he needs only to issue a statement consisting of the sentence I typed above. He could add: "I will have no further comment on this or my time as WH COS or as Secretary of the DHS."

Perhaps he no longer feels a duty to help Trump out of another mess entirely of his own making.

...& if he speaks up, Doc will trash him for his current job with an ICE detention facility contractor.

You and I can leave Doc out of this. Maybe General Kelly supports Vice President Biden.

.. ...it's not that easy.

Re Kelly -- I'm reminded of the military acronym about a change in attitude once you have your orders for you next assignment in hand,
FIGMO -- F it, I've got my orders. (outta here)

OK, do the calypso with me -- jeez. His silence is, no mater how you slice it or analogize it or ascribe to it an acronym that doesn't quite work, hurting the President.

I don't think Kelly is bothered that it hurts Trump. He may prefer Biden, but not enough to break the code of silence re undermining a still serving CinC, ...& he's sick of the whole thing & just wants to be left alone.

[MDlaxfan76]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Time will tell, Salty, but if he wanted to refute it or Dunford wanted to refute it, it would be simple to do so. Perhaps the only reason they're not confirming it is this BS 'code of silence', but let's assume that's the issue, not that they're 'cowards' as some on these threads have suggested (which seems ridiculous to me).

Lots of reporters, from all kinds of angles, have now confirmed that the sources are real, truly were senior officials who were there and would know, and they all tell a common story and set of stories...and then we have Trump himself in the raw. Including yesterday.

But hey, perhaps you're in the camp that Stormy made it up and Trump was just kidding when he said he grabs women by the p---.

[DocBarrister]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

You're right Doc, they cut you a lot of slack.

Any criticism from you regarding Trump’s racist and xenophobic policies?

Any criticism from you regarding Vladimir Putin’s racist and bigoted policies?

Any explanation for your soft handling of white supremacists who support Trump?

Your failure to criticize Trump’s obvious and long-documented history of racism speaks volumes.

So ... really, stop with the faux grievance.

DocBarrister

Your failure to criticize, blah, blah, blah.
I refuse to play your woke PC games.

Isn’t it interesting that the folks who complain about “PC” culture are the same ones who seem frustrated that they cannot express their bigotries openly and without criticism?

DocBarrister

Did your hero Mike Nifong teach you these accusatory questioning techniques ?

Isn’t your master and idol, Vladimir Putin, and his FSB (KGB) thugs, the real experts on “accusatory questioning techniques?”

Besides, I am not questioning you ... I am convicting you with your own past actions and words on this forum.

DocBarrister

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?

You mean like your idol, Vladimir Putin?

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

yet so easy to say it didn't happen...Kelly doesn't need to comment whether he thinks Trump is a POS or not. Just say, 'The President didn't say that or anything like that to me".

And no, Mattis has not actually been entirely silent on other matters. He's "commented".

Once you open that door, you can't close it.

No comment -- I will neither confirm or deny.

Mattis has refused to comment on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

As Goldberg points out, Mattis refused until the WH siege, refusing during his lengthy book tour.
So why has his good friend Kelly not followed suit ?
As you say -- if Trump said it, it would be easy to confirm it.

Time will tell, Salty, but if he wanted to refute it or Dunforth wanted to refute it, it would be simple to do so.

Lots of reporters, from all kinds of angles, have now confirmed that the sources are real, truly were senior officials who were there and would know, and they all tell a common story and set of stories...and then we have Trump himself in the raw.

But hey, perhaps you're in the camp that Stormy made it up and Trump was just kidding when he said he grabs women by the p---.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/06/ ... uth-shore/

This recent story on Gen. Joe Dunford (Ret.) is telling for a couple of reasons:

1) Dunford clearly has a different world view than Trump (or old salt).

2) One reason Dunford cites for not getting involved in politics is to make the job of his successor, Gen. Milley, easier.

That second point is interesting, because the one thing he could do to immediately make Milley’s job easier is to deny that Trump called veterans and American war dead “losers” and “suckers.” But he hasn’t done that (yet).

Instead, Dunford’s silence only worsens the problem for Milley.

Either Dunford is not willing to exonerate Trump, or ...

... Dunford honestly cannot.

Anyway, that doesn’t change the fact that Trump smeared the military brass on Labor Day.

DocBarrister

[seacoaster]

Here's a pissed off WW2 veteran:

https://twitter.com/ShelbieWassel/statu ... 3419572227

[seacoaster]

More fun:

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1302675432144351234

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here's a ticked off WW2 veteran:

https://twitter.com/ShelbieWassel/statu ... 3419572227

He’s just upset that Hillary lost and can’t get over it.

[DMac]

Riveting discussion.
The ol' lax forum sure aint what she used to be.

Certain LP moderators who shall not be named prohibited any discussion of Trump’s racism, purportedly to avoid upsetting certain members of the LP readership (presumably, the racists).

Is it even possible to discuss Trump without discussing his racism?

I appreciated all the work the LP folks put into what was once the leading discussion forum for college lacrosse. Having said that, their indulgence of the racists in the lacrosse community was simply disgraceful.

DocBarrister

Geezuz H, Doc, you blew that comment up into something that it wasn't at all.
I simply meant there were a whole lot more people, quite a few really bright ones too, who you could have a reasonable, entertaining, and maybe even educational discussion with. Not so much anymore.