Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[a fan]

Last night in Oakland

BLM protesters chanting popular Iranian phrase 'Death to America' goes viral

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... uxbndlbing

The Dems hate you, your family, your success, your free agency, they hate all police, they hate beauty, they hate normalcy.

Naaah. I put in a call to the protesters last night, Pete.

They just hate YOU, Pete Brown.

I tried to talk them out of it....but they weren't having it. Sorry, mate.

[Cooter]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

I think there will be a desire by the state to avoid rehashing this also.

If the two dead guys had stayed at home they wouldn't be dead. Perhaps even if the first guy, Joe Rosenbaum, had stayed at home no one would have been shot.

[njbill]

Would certainly defer to your experience/knowledge, njb.
Questions: What charges? Jail time?
Certainly indisputable that he wouldn't have killed two people had he had enough sense to just stay home, but whether these two hyped up aggressive, less than stellar citizens, might have ended up dead anyway because of their behavior is somewhat debateable.
Idiots...all of them.

Don’t know. But there probably are a bunch of lesser charges that could be available, from assault with a deadly weapon down to some technical firearms related charge.

In terms of jail time, I suspect that may depend on how the evidence develops on the strength or weakness of the self-defense argument, and also on what charges he pleads guilty to.

I also don’t know what the make up would be of the jury that would try him. Black? White? Liberal? Conservative? To me, that would also be very important in advising this kid on what to do.

Agree re the rest.

[njbill]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

What's the over/under that DOPUS pardons him before the election even after a any possible plea deal?

I had the same thought.

[seacoaster]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

What's the over/under that DOPUS pardons him before the election even after a any possible plea deal?

I had the same thought.

I can see a Flynn pardon to further rev the Trump base, before this kid gets a pardon.

The President can "grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." Isn't this a state proceeding? Or is the crossing of state lines allowing Billy Barr to enter the fray?

[Peter Brown]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

I think there will be a desire by the state to avoid rehashing this also.

If the two dead guys had stayed at home they wouldn't be dead. Perhaps even if the first guy, Joe Rosenbaum, had stayed at home no one would have been shot.

Interesting:

Dems.jpg (64.08 KiB) Viewed 985 times

[njbill]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

What's the over/under that DOPUS pardons him before the election even after a any possible plea deal?

I had the same thought.

I can see a Flynn pardon to further rev the Trump base, before this kid gets a pardon.

The President can "grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." Isn't this a state proceeding? Or is the crossing of state lines allowing Billy Barr to enter the fray?

Oops. I forgot that these are state charges. Right you are. No pardon from Trump on this.

[DocBarrister]

Looks like the victim of the tragic shooting in Portland was among those Trump supporters spraying pepper spray at the protesters.

NY Times put together a good timeline with video of key moments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/31/vide ... e=Homepage

Looks like the victim, Mr. Danielson, started spraying a protester, who then responded by shooting Mr. Danielson dead.

Just horrible.

This is what Trump is trying to incite ... a race war.

DocBarrister

[Peter Brown]

Looks like the victim of the tragic shooting in Portland was among those Trump supporters spraying pepper spray at the protesters.

NY Times put together a good timeline with video of key moments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/31/vide ... e=Homepage

Looks like the victim, Mr. Danielson, started spraying a protester, who then responded by shooting Mr. Danielson dead.

Just horrible.

This is what Trump is trying to incite ... a race war.

DocBarrister

Uh what?!

So if a guy first points a gun at you after saying 'we got one right here, a Trumper, let's get him', and you attempt to spray the man with mace, what's deserved then is death? lol. Democrats are insane.

Every situation the last two weeks the 'republican' is attempting to defend himself AFTER the 'democrat' initiates attempted murder. Also, every 'democrat' is an ex-violent felon...what does that tell you?

Your team is bat-guano insane, and TDS is partly to blame, but mostly, you guys aren't capable of operating inside a civil society; TDS merely pushed you over the edge. Anyway, keep defending the indefensible; Trump is going to roll to a blowout win. Voters see this exactly as they should. You should pay attention to what Hoodat said...he's on the money.

[Peter Brown]

Oh hey, just a Democratic mob attacking a veteran and his elderly wife (she ends up crying) for, checks notes, exercising their right to free speech.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/statu ... 75424?s=20

A Veteran and his wife were attacked by BLM protestors for being Trump supporters who told them it’s wrong to threaten to burn down their city.

It has to be so fulfilling to be a Democrat these days! How far is this party from going full fascist?

This is America's Red Terror, right here on our soil. Amazing.

[a fan]

So if a guy first points a gun at you after saying 'we got one right here, a Trumper, let's get him', and you attempt to spray the man with mace, what's deserved then is death? lol.

You set the rules, Pete, remember?

That's self defense, my man. Totally ok to take a dangerous gun into a riot zone, and then when----shocker---- something in that riot zone makes you feel threatened?

Pete says: fire away! Doesn't matter if they have mace or something in a ziploc bag.....it's a weapons free zone according to Pete!

Or have you forgotten your stance on this already, Pete?

[old salt]

The kid will wind up pleading guilty to a lesser charge.

No way a 17-year-old kid wants to face a jury on two murder charges. Maybe they buy his argument that it was self-defense. Maybe not. Do you want to roll the dice on that?

One thing is indisputable. If the kid had stayed home, in his own state for goodness’ sake, two people wouldn’t be dead.

...any chance he could plead with a sentencing recommendation of juvenile detention until age 21 ?

[Peter Brown]

So if a guy first points a gun at you after saying 'we got one right here, a Trumper, let's get him', and you attempt to spray the man with mace, what's deserved then is death? lol.

You set the rules, Pete, remember?

That's self defense, my man. Totally ok to take a dangerous gun into a riot zone, and then when----shocker---- something in that riot zone makes you feel threatened?

Pete says: fire away! Doesn't matter if they have mace or something in a ziploc bag.....it's a weapons free zone according to Pete!

Or have you forgotten your stance on this already, Pete?

C9E40573-5A4C-45FC-92FD-CDE1419653CD.jpeg (193.18 KiB) Viewed 923 times

[a fan]

So if a guy first points a gun at you after saying 'we got one right here, a Trumper, let's get him', and you attempt to spray the man with mace, what's deserved then is death? lol.

You set the rules, Pete, remember?

That's self defense, my man. Totally ok to take a dangerous gun into a riot zone, and then when----shocker---- something in that riot zone makes you feel threatened?

Pete says: fire away! Doesn't matter if they have mace or something in a ziploc bag.....it's a weapons free zone according to Pete!

Or have you forgotten your stance on this already, Pete?

C9E40573-5A4C-45FC-92FD-CDE1419653CD.jpeg

Look, a squirrel!!!

You're caught again, Pete. You can't keep your values straight.

Everything you claim to think is dependent on D's and Rs. It's ok for a R to carry a gun and defend themselves. But not anyone else.

Have a good night, Pete....

[youthathletics]

Meanwhile...."I am not sad, a Fuken facists dies tonight" : https://www.instagram.com/p/CEnNZ_sJ2MK ... _copy_link

[njbill]

...any chance he could plead with a sentencing recommendation of juvenile detention until age 21 ?

Don’t know. I haven’t read anything about whether Wisconsin intends to try him as an adult. Of course, he can oppose that request, and the judge has to decide. This is outside my area of expertise, but I suspect he will be tried as an adult.

A lot depends on the strength of his self defense argument. If it is strong, four years of detention may not be appealing. If it is weak, it likely would be.

Even if his case is heard in adult court, I suspect it still would be possible for a guilty plea to be resolved as a JD matter.

[6x6]

...any chance he could plead with a sentencing recommendation of juvenile detention until age 21 ?

Don’t know. I haven’t read anything about whether Wisconsin intends to try him as an adult. Of course, he can oppose that request, and the judge has to decide. This is outside my area of expertise, but I suspect he will be tried as an adult.

A lot depends on the strength of his self defense argument. If it is strong, four years of detention may not be appealing. If it is weak, it likely would be.

Even if his case is heard in adult court, I suspect it still would be possible for a guilty plea to be resolved as a JD matter.

In Wisconsin and other states, you are considered an adult at age 17 for criminal purposes. He is charged as an adult and will be tried as an adult and serve any time he receives in an adult facility. That is OS, unless Wisconsin has some odd ball system, I’ve never heard of that would allow for an “adult” to be remanded to a juvie facility.

[njbill]

If in Wisconsin, a 17 year old is considered to be an adult for criminal law purposes, then I would agree that this case can’t be resolved by a guilty plea that would treat him as a minor.

[6x6]

Local Portland News

I watched the mayor’s press conference and Chief Lovell seemed unprepared and actually in a bit over his head. To the point of the article, he responded to several questions by indicating the department lacked resources. One reporter asked, with gun shots from both sides you say it’s not operationally feasible to keep the sides apart, what’s to keep them from escalating to open gun fire on the streets. He replied, “ I hope it doesn’t come to that”...we have activities going on throughout the city and we have a finite source of officers. Another asked, are you close to needing the National Guard, his response “we need additional resources....it may get to that point”.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Local Portland News

I watched the mayor’s press conference and Chief Lovell seemed unprepared and actually in a bit over his head. To the point of the article, he responded to several questions by indicating the department lacked resources. One reporter asked, with gun shots from both sides you say it’s not operationally feasible to keep the sides apart, what’s to keep them from escalating to open gun fire on the streets. He replied, “ I hope it doesn’t come to that”...we have activities going on throughout the city and we have a finite source of officers. Another asked, are you close to needing the National Guard, his response “we need additional resources....it may get to that point”.

What a country.