All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Sturgis has now been linked to over 100 cases in 8 states.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Sturgis has now been linked to over 100 cases in 8 states.

They have a god given right to infect other people.

[njbill]

There is no proof those cases had anything to do with the rally.

Just like there is no proof Herman Cain caught the virus at Trump’s Tulsa rally.

Mere coincidences. Or bad luck. Or it was the fault of Biden or Obama or Hillary. Or something.

[DocBarrister]

There is no proof those cases had anything to do with the rally.

Just like there is no proof Herman Cain caught the virus at Trump’s Tulsa rally.

Mere coincidences. Or bad luck. Or it was the fault of Biden or Obama or Hillary. Or something.

Just don’t see why Trump had to go and kill poor ol’ Herman Cain. Trump done him wrong. Just ain’t right.

DocBarrister

[Brooklyn]

Sturgis has now been linked to over 100 cases in 8 states.

They have a god given right to infect other people.

this time forum right wingers cannot put the blame on a Democrat mayor - but you never know .....

[old salt]

France & Spain are experiencing outbreaks. Germany has issued travel restrictions to Ile-de-France & Cote-d'Azur.
Spain is dealing with a shortage of contact tracers & struggling to trace contracts from their new tracing app, as they prepare to reopen schools,

https://www.rfi.fr/en/europe/20200825-g ... ise-france

https://www.france24.com/en/video/20200 ... ses-spiral

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN24Z1TJ
The spread of the disease in Spain slowed as the government imposed one of the strictest lockdowns in Europe and as many countries limited international travel, but new cases have started rising again, hitting a post-lockdown record of 1,525 on Friday.

[CU88]

No surprise here

https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-9000-fl ... en-1527587

[Bart]

doc,
you can't help your condescending nature.
you also can't admit you made a mistake. long term immunity had absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution of those pandemics. how could it?
or explain how the long term immunity (years into the future?) in a few hundred cases (or more, if you prefer) was key to containing the outbreak. i am interested.

and no worries... i already know how to get into hahvahd.

Learn ... and then come back for a conversation.

DocBarrister

stop with the condescension. it's tiring. i jumped in bc you went full flame on someone. i don't like bullies, moved around a lot as a kid and dealt with them.
but i asked for an honest answer. you won't provide one. anyone that can read can see that. professor.

I took time out from a busy day to post detailed responses to your questions. You, in contrast, seemed more interested in an argument.

Learn ... then we can share a learned discussion.

Until then ....

DocBarrister

lol. just one question. again, i asked you honestly to explain this theory. none of which is supported by the cdc, the who, or any of a half dozen other science journals that i called up. not to mention it being illogical.

all bc you decided to be a bully. but you won't do it.

p.s. it's documented those 2 diseases confer long term immunity. what's not documented (that i'm aware of) is how that stopped those pandemics. which you did not address. happy to learn when you have the time, padre.

not looking for an argument. your perspective. how is it that long term immunity stopped those pandemics?
the people infected wouldn't infect others years later or get infected themselves years later? that's what stopped it? a global pandemic... several thousand or several hundred people's lt immunity years after they recovered? preach. on a vaca day, between briefs, or whenever.

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

[youthathletics]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

[MDlaxfan76]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I'm puzzled.

Could you explain the basis for the bolded statement...which countries do you think are "better off"? Are you basing this on total deaths to date as a % of population? Or daily death trends now as a % of population?

Or are you saying that the more people who have gotten Covid (ahh well, some have died) is the measure of how "better off" a country is now?

It is indeed logical that a country which has prevented spread to many of its population so far nevertheless remains vulnerable, at least until a vaccine or therapeutic measures can be introduced into the mix.

But that's the whole point, buying time to get to other ways to build immunity or to find therapeutic measures, before spread kills millions...

[Bart]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I don’t think the timing effects much. In part cause we do not know for certain if those who might be reinfected are still capable of spreading the virus. Running and hiding, as you put it, is supposed to buy time so therapeutics can be developed.

[youthathletics]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I'm puzzled.

Could you explain the basis for the bolded statement...which countries do you think are "better off"? Are you basing this on total deaths to date as a % of population? Or daily death trends now as a % of population?

Or are you saying that the more people who have gotten Covid (ahh well, some have died) is the measure of how "better off" a country is now?

It is indeed logical that a country which has prevented spread to many of its population so far nevertheless remains vulnerable, at least until a vaccine or therapeutic measures can be introduced into the mix.

But that's the whole point, buying time to get to other ways to build immunity or to find therapeutic measures, before spread kills millions...

You must've overlooked the conversation yesterday when ggait and I where going back and forth you sarcastically replied.

I am not claiming any country has done better, quite the opposite....calling out everyone that has said the US has done the worst and if we only acted like Country X.....you fit that demo. And yet, you all praise other countries for opening back up that originally ran and hid....which means they are indeed vulnerable. So I ask, why would they give their citizens, those that barely contracted it, the green like to openly go out all of a sudden? And as Old Salt's article infer, it is coming back. I also wonder if those same countries are performing their testing and statistical reporting differently.

My point, is the one you agree with (bold/red).

[Typical Lax Dad]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I'm puzzled.

Could you explain the basis for the bolded statement...which countries do you think are "better off"? Are you basing this on total deaths to date as a % of population? Or daily death trends now as a % of population?

Or are you saying that the more people who have gotten Covid (ahh well, some have died) is the measure of how "better off" a country is now?

It is indeed logical that a country which has prevented spread to many of its population so far nevertheless remains vulnerable, at least until a vaccine or therapeutic measures can be introduced into the mix.

But that's the whole point, buying time to get to other ways to build immunity or to find therapeutic measures, before spread kills millions...

Nope....that logic is take no mitigation efforts, let the virus rip through society and overwhelm hospitals and kill millions in order to reach sufficient societal immunity earlier....because with a novel virus, you are not out of the woods until you have a vaccine or an immune population anyway. Keeping deaths down and maintaining mitigation efforts is just fools gold because you remain susceptible. It hasn’t dawned on people that immunity is key.

[youthathletics]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I don’t think the timing effects much. In part cause we do not know for certain if those who might be reinfected are still capable of spreading the virus. Running and hiding, as you put it, is supposed to buy time so therapeutics can be developed.

No argument there on the re-infection part. My point was solely on those that did run and hide...and are opening back up, meaning less of their population had a chance to build a higher percentage of immunity.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I'm puzzled.

Could you explain the basis for the bolded statement...which countries do you think are "better off"? Are you basing this on total deaths to date as a % of population? Or daily death trends now as a % of population?

Or are you saying that the more people who have gotten Covid (ahh well, some have died) is the measure of how "better off" a country is now?

It is indeed logical that a country which has prevented spread to many of its population so far nevertheless remains vulnerable, at least until a vaccine or therapeutic measures can be introduced into the mix.

But that's the whole point, buying time to get to other ways to build immunity or to find therapeutic measures, before spread kills millions...

You must've overlooked the conversation yesterday when ggait and I where going back and forth you sarcastically replied.

I am not claiming any country has done better, quite the opposite....calling out everyone that has said the US has done the worst and if we only acted like Country X.....you fit that demo. And yet, you all praise other countries for opening back up that originally ran and hid....which means they are indeed vulnerable. So I ask, why would they give their citizens, those that barely contracted it, the green like to openly go out all of a sudden? And as Old Salt's article infer, it is coming back. I also wonder if those same countries are performing their testing and statistical reporting differently.

My point, is the one you agree with (bold/red).

Ummm....Is it because the healthcare system is not expected to be overrun with people because testing is up and experience has taught them something over the past 7 months? That could be why the decision they make to day isn’t the same decision they made in February/March.....Think of it like coaching experience. You see a team once and they catch you by surprise....next time around you are better prepared. Or in a profession when you encounter a problem for the very first time and develop a solution. Next time around, you are better prepared even if the next problem isn’t exactly the same. We lost 180,000 people so far.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I don’t think the timing effects much. In part cause we do not know for certain if those who might be reinfected are still capable of spreading the virus. Running and hiding, as you put it, is supposed to buy time so therapeutics can be developed.

No argument there on the re-infection part. My point was solely on those that did run and hide...and are opening back up, meaning less of their population had a chance to build a higher percentage of immunity.

Less of their population had a chance of dying.

[Brooklyn]

182,000+ deaths in USA:


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


thank you tRUMP

[wgdsr]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I don’t think the timing effects much. In part cause we do not know for certain if those who might be reinfected are still capable of spreading the virus. Running and hiding, as you put it, is supposed to buy time so therapeutics can be developed.

thanks. i hadn't seen that, interesting. have seen articles similar.
i think the last several paragraphs will be in place no matter what (and believe they're in place today)... individual reactions now and subsequent are just that... wildly individual. even beyond the bounds of asymptomatic/symptomatic/severe. until it's squashed entirely, which may take a very effective vaccine (questionable).

below is a response i had from last night that somehow didn't post. i do think timing has mattered w respect to what a country is doing and other factors:

You avoided other portion of my post...why?

YA -- I think the Swedes are in the same place now as all the other Euro countries and for the same reasons.

I don't think any of those countries has herd immunity. All bent the curve to low levels by serious social distancing.

And all could experience a virus resurgence in the future (and probably will) if they back off the SD too much too fast.

The only things different about Sweden's experience seem to be that they (like the UK) briefly/initially tried to let the virus run. Then backed off that and went SD. And they got SD compliance through voluntary rather than mandatory means.

Is that what you were asking about?

My point, which JHU and MD also avoided when I cited them in the quote earlier..I substituted Sweden for COUNTRY X....

ggait....is your point they (COUNTRY X) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are (COUNTRY X) folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?

So if we are going to praise another country for doing "it" right, what did they do so they will not get it again and can get back to normal? Remember, that means they are either immune to it b/c they already had it, OR they will have to lock down again when it returns. Otherwise herd immunity is the only way...short of medical intervention. OR and this is a big OR....they have changed the way they test and report.

my take is italy, spain, france and maybe others are now into or will be engaged in some sloppy seconds as they are opening up until they burn it off. even from very low levels. where that ends up and to what degree is anyone's guess, dependent on a lot of things... health of pop, mitigation efforts, immunity, timing of vaccine/therapeutic help.

sweden looks good to go for a while. they didn't lock down, or wear masks. they social distanced early, and planned poorly around nursing homes... but look to have the question of immunity and scope to be the key driver for the near term anyway.

when it's all analyzed, i do think you'll see timing had played a major role. here in the u.s. our giving the virus enough rope to keep hanging us (and minimizing effectiveness of some efforts like testing, tracing) may turn into a full intermediate term burn that a place like sweden got thru quickly.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You read alot so you might have already read this but this article is an interesting primer on what we might see as the type of immunity resulting from this virus: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/fou ... -covid-19/

Thanks for that article Bart. It ties into my questioning yesterday about countries that are believed to "have done better" and what that looks like moving forward. As I suggested, just b/c said country appears to have done it better, does not mean they solved anything. If more people did not have it, then they are ripe for the pickens' and it starts all over....just as Old Salt's links indicate below ...it may be coming back for those that hunkered down, ran and hid.

Seems the more people that get it earlier, the better off everyone becomes. And of the 4 immunity scenarios in that article suggests...our immunity system is the key common thread.

I don’t think the timing effects much. In part cause we do not know for certain if those who might be reinfected are still capable of spreading the virus. Running and hiding, as you put it, is supposed to buy time so therapeutics can be developed.

thanks. i hadn't seen that, interesting. have seen articles similar.
i think the last several paragraphs will be in place no matter what (and believe they're in place today)... individual reactions now and subsequent are just that... wildly individual. even beyond the bounds of asymptomatic/symptomatic/severe. until it's squashed entirely, which may take a very effective vaccine (questionable).

below is a response i had from last night that somehow didn't post. i do think timing has mattered w respect to what a country is doing and other factors:

You avoided other portion of my post...why?

YA -- I think the Swedes are in the same place now as all the other Euro countries and for the same reasons.

I don't think any of those countries has herd immunity. All bent the curve to low levels by serious social distancing.

And all could experience a virus resurgence in the future (and probably will) if they back off the SD too much too fast.

The only things different about Sweden's experience seem to be that they (like the UK) briefly/initially tried to let the virus run. Then backed off that and went SD. And they got SD compliance through voluntary rather than mandatory means.

Is that what you were asking about?

My point, which JHU and MD also avoided when I cited them in the quote earlier..I substituted Sweden for COUNTRY X....

ggait....is your point they (COUNTRY X) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are (COUNTRY X) folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?

So if we are going to praise another country for doing "it" right, what did they do so they will not get it again and can get back to normal? Remember, that means they are either immune to it b/c they already had it, OR they will have to lock down again when it returns. Otherwise herd immunity is the only way...short of medical intervention. OR and this is a big OR....they have changed the way they test and report.

my take is italy, spain, france and maybe others are now into or will be engaged in some sloppy seconds as they are opening up until they burn it off. even from very low levels. where that ends up and to what degree is anyone's guess, dependent on a lot of things... health of pop, mitigation efforts, immunity, timing of vaccine/therapeutic help.

sweden looks good to go for a while. they didn't lock down, or wear masks. they social distanced early, and planned poorly around nursing homes... but look to have the question of immunity and scope to be the key driver for the near term anyway.

when it's all analyzed, i do think you'll see timing had played a major role. here in the u.s. our giving the virus enough rope to keep hanging us (and minimizing effectiveness of some efforts like testing, tracing) may turn into a full intermediate term burn that a place like sweden got thru quickly.

I don’t believe we shut down widely and long enough. I said it when POTUS was pushing to liberate the states. We are an undisciplined people. Just saw on Bloomberg that folks with initially mild symptoms are now experiencing brain deficits. It’s a new virus that we are still trying to figure out. Unlike the flu, you don’t put COVID-19 in the rear view mirror after you get over it. A lot to learn still. With 182,000 dead Americans, can’t imagine just letting it run loose.

[Peter Brown]

If we could only get rid of Miami-Dade, we'd be so sitting pretty right now.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experienc ... db9b25e429

In any event, Florida cases keep dropping.

Open up.