All things CoronaVirus

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.

How many of your friends and family members have died of the Chinese Corona Virus?

0 people
44
64%
1 person.
10
14%
2 people.
3
4%
3 people.
5
7%
More.
7
10%
 
Total votes: 69

User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15162
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by youthathletics »

ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
JoeMauer89
Posts: 1997
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: Lord Douchbag!

Post by JoeMauer89 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:57 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:38 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:14 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:24 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:19 am What many have feared ... world’s first confirmed case of novel coronavirus re-reinfection.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science ... y-n1237840

This suggests that for some or many (or most or all?) people, any immunity through infection/recovery or vaccination will be temporary.

Not good.

DocBarrister :?
One possible implication ... we may face a future requiring constant vigilance against this virus. Meaning, repeated vaccinations and occasional isolations and shutdowns when local outbreaks occur.

DocBarrister :|
Read what the article stated,the patient was asymptomatic the throughout the re-infection. Its likely that the his immune system having familiarity with the virus prevented him/her from experiencing any symptoms. This is a rather extremist take, there is nothing that is NOT good about it. Reinfection does not and rarely has to be associated with worse symptoms. This would fly in the face of every scientific principle known to mankind. This isn't a new virus, just a very different strain of the Coronavirus family that has been around for quite a while. This post is leaving a lot of what the article said and inserting your alarmist beliefs into it. I am a casual observer of this forum, but a lot of the time its very hard to even take you serious. You are purposefully divisive, alarmist, insensitive and take things to the extreme every chance you get. I get it, you are unhappy with the current leadership in this country, but that doesn't call for some of the extreme takes that you throw out in regards to this virus. There's a lot of people unhappy with the leadership as you are, yet they don't abandon their sense of rational belief and make such divisive statements as if they are making them just to elicit some sort of response that they may seek.

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89!
The ignorance in your post is truly astonishing. I would correct every errant statement in your post, but I have a day job and don’t have the time to teach you all you should know.

You also missed a key point ... the second infection was caused by a different variant of the novel coronavirus. Same virus, different variant. That is definitely bad.

Public health officials were hoping that long-term immunity would be possible with the Covid-19 virus (as it was with SARS and MERS). Such long-term immunity was key to getting those earlier pandemics under control. More and more, that does not seem likely with the novel coronavirus. In other words, the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is not like other viruses.

There is also another sickness involved here ... a repugnant and dishonest effort to portray SARS-CoV-2 as just another strain of coronavirus.

WRONG ... we’re well on our way to a million worldwide deaths despite the most extreme infection mitigation efforts in over a century (plus, modern medicine and technology). There will likely be a quarter million dead Americans by the end of the year. THAT is nothing like other recent coronaviruses. To say otherwise is disrespectful, dishonest, and ignorant.

Seriously, let’s stop with the ignorant posts.

DocBarrister
And he’s here!

+10000

Go Twins!
JoeMauer89!
jhu72
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compared to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
jhu72
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15162
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by youthathletics »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (COUNTRY X) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are (COUNTRY X) folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compare to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Substitute Sweden in my earlier post for any other country that you say is doing the best....the same questions apply?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 26355
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compare to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Apparently the concept of getting N below 1 is lost on some knuckleheads here in the good ole USA.

Social distancing, masks, etc can get it under 1.
A vaccine can get it under 1.

sure, herd immunity could get it under 1, but how many deaths before that happens???

This all about getting it under 1 and keeping it there, never letting it come back up above 1. Distancing and masks, testing and tracing and quarantine, until vaccine, good hygiene thereafter, continued vigilance.

But nah, let'er rip...herd immunity will eventually happen...
Carroll81
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:36 am

Re: Lord Douchbag!

Post by Carroll81 »

JoeMauer89 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:26 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:57 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:38 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:14 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:24 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:19 am What many have feared ... world’s first confirmed case of novel coronavirus re-reinfection.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science ... y-n1237840

This suggests that for some or many (or most or all?) people, any immunity through infection/recovery or vaccination will be temporary.

Not good.

DocBarrister :?
One possible implication ... we may face a future requiring constant vigilance against this virus. Meaning, repeated vaccinations and occasional isolations and shutdowns when local outbreaks occur.

DocBarrister :|
Read what the article stated,the patient was asymptomatic the throughout the re-infection. Its likely that the his immune system having familiarity with the virus prevented him/her from experiencing any symptoms. This is a rather extremist take, there is nothing that is NOT good about it. Reinfection does not and rarely has to be associated with worse symptoms. This would fly in the face of every scientific principle known to mankind. This isn't a new virus, just a very different strain of the Coronavirus family that has been around for quite a while. This post is leaving a lot of what the article said and inserting your alarmist beliefs into it. I am a casual observer of this forum, but a lot of the time its very hard to even take you serious. You are purposefully divisive, alarmist, insensitive and take things to the extreme every chance you get. I get it, you are unhappy with the current leadership in this country, but that doesn't call for some of the extreme takes that you throw out in regards to this virus. There's a lot of people unhappy with the leadership as you are, yet they don't abandon their sense of rational belief and make such divisive statements as if they are making them just to elicit some sort of response that they may seek.

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89!
The ignorance in your post is truly astonishing. I would correct every errant statement in your post, but I have a day job and don’t have the time to teach you all you should know.

You also missed a key point ... the second infection was caused by a different variant of the novel coronavirus. Same virus, different variant. That is definitely bad.

Public health officials were hoping that long-term immunity would be possible with the Covid-19 virus (as it was with SARS and MERS). Such long-term immunity was key to getting those earlier pandemics under control. More and more, that does not seem likely with the novel coronavirus. In other words, the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is not like other viruses.

There is also another sickness involved here ... a repugnant and dishonest effort to portray SARS-CoV-2 as just another strain of coronavirus.

WRONG ... we’re well on our way to a million worldwide deaths despite the most extreme infection mitigation efforts in over a century (plus, modern medicine and technology). There will likely be a quarter million dead Americans by the end of the year. THAT is nothing like other recent coronaviruses. To say otherwise is disrespectful, dishonest, and ignorant.

Seriously, let’s stop with the ignorant posts.

DocBarrister
And he’s here!

+10000

Go Twins!
JoeMauer89!
Yes, very well played sir!
jhu72
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6255
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by kramerica.inc »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:56 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compare to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Apparently the concept of getting N below 1 is lost on some knuckleheads here in the good ole USA.

Social distancing, masks, etc can get it under 1.
A vaccine can get it under 1.

sure, herd immunity could get it under 1, but how many deaths before that happens???

This all about getting it under 1 and keeping it there, never letting it come back up above 1. Distancing and masks, testing and tracing and quarantine, until vaccine, good hygiene thereafter, continued vigilance.

But nah, let'er rip...herd immunity will eventually happen...
US has done it all. We've social distanced, quarantined. Now we're going for Herd Immunity. The USA rocks!

:lol:
jhu72
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:56 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compare to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Apparently the concept of getting N below 1 is lost on some knuckleheads here in the good ole USA.

Social distancing, masks, etc can get it under 1.
A vaccine can get it under 1.

sure, herd immunity could get it under 1, but how many deaths before that happens???

This all about getting it under 1 and keeping it there, never letting it come back up above 1. Distancing and masks, testing and tracing and quarantine, until vaccine, good hygiene thereafter, continued vigilance.

But nah, let'er rip...herd immunity will eventually happen...
You would hope herd immunity will eventually happen, but I think proof of that in this particular case is still to be seen. Sweden has done slightly worse than the US from a per capita perspective, to this point. We will blow by them in the next few weeks. I think it is a real misconception that Sweden has done no social distancing. They have, but like in the US it has been spotty. Probably more spotty. The attached National Geographic article describes Sweden in mid May.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist ... ury/#close

I suspect they have done a lot more social distancing in the past 10 weeks as it became clear to even a blind man that their lassez-fair approach wasn't working. The well off have been social distancing from the beginning (per the National Geo article). The less well off I suspect have embraced it only recently.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15162
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by youthathletics »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:29 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:56 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:13 pm
ggait wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 am
in fairness, unless any of us have spent time all over sweden and the u.s., none of us know the difference of what was/has been done.
In fairness, the Swedish university epidemiologists quoted spend all their time in Sweden. And they say Sweden did a lock down/heavy social distancing. Even though it was done voluntarily rather than through mandate/order.
a guess going by neighboring nordic countries is that sweden was in better physical "shape" to handle the virus than the u.s., and could've done much better on deaths as a result (also they were worse than us even on nursing home protection).
Sweden is basically in the same shape as all the other Euro 1st world countries, including the other Nordics. While many got slammed initially (Sweden, Italy, France, Spain, UK) they ALL have it under control now. All doing WAY better than the USA right now. They ALL figured it out eventually. As did Japan, Australia, Canada, SK. Take social distancing seriously and you get it under control.

We are alone among the 1st worlders in not getting a grip on this after six months.
ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it. If the former...then that implies they are ripe to get CV-19 if they just ran and hid, if the latter then that implies herd immunity works and you are for it.

Meaning CV-19 is still around, so why are SW folks not getting sick? Did they also completely isolate their borders and no one can enter of leave?
Over 5800 dead. One more died today. Another 170 infected today. Nearly 90K infected all time. Get real! Compare to its peers, Sweden is a disaster.
Apparently the concept of getting N below 1 is lost on some knuckleheads here in the good ole USA.

Social distancing, masks, etc can get it under 1.
A vaccine can get it under 1.

sure, herd immunity could get it under 1, but how many deaths before that happens???

This all about getting it under 1 and keeping it there, never letting it come back up above 1. Distancing and masks, testing and tracing and quarantine, until vaccine, good hygiene thereafter, continued vigilance.

But nah, let'er rip...herd immunity will eventually happen...
You would hope herd immunity will eventually happen, but I think proof of that in this particular case is still to be seen. Sweden has done slightly worse than the US from a per capita perspective, to this point. We will blow by them in the next few weeks. I think it is a real misconception that Sweden has done no social distancing. They have, but like in the US it has been spotty. Probably more spotty. The attached National Geographic article describes Sweden in mid May.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist ... ury/#close

I suspect they have done a lot more social distancing in the past 10 weeks as it became clear to even a blind man that their lassez-fair approach wasn't working. The well off have been social distancing from the beginning (per the National Geo article). The less well off I suspect have embraced it only recently.
Care to answer my last reply to you, before MD trolled in and said nothing, again?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by seacoaster »

What's a little intrusion of political hackery into science? It's hard to imagine this Administration exaggerating the benefits of an unproven therapy, right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/heal ... ticleShare

"At a news conference on Sunday announcing the emergency approval of blood plasma for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, President Trump and two of his top health officials cited the same statistic: that the treatment had reduced deaths by 35 percent.

Mr. Trump called it a “tremendous” number. His health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, a former pharmaceutical executive, said, “I don’t want you to gloss over this number.” And Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said 35 out of 100 Covid-19 patients “would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.”

But scientists were taken aback by the way the administration framed this data, which appeared to have been calculated based on a small subgroup of hospitalized Covid-19 patients in a Mayo Clinic study: those who were under 80 years old, not on ventilators and received plasma known to contain high levels of virus-fighting antibodies within three days of diagnosis.

What’s more, many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where the statistic came from. The number was not mentioned in the official authorization letter issued by the agency, nor was it in a 17-page memo written by F.D.A. scientists. It was not in an analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic that has been frequently cited by the administration.

“For the first time ever, I feel like official people in communications and people at the F.D.A. grossly misrepresented data about a therapy,” said Dr. Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh.

It is especially worrisome, he said, given concerns over how Mr. Trump has appeared to politicize the process of approving treatments and vaccines for the coronavirus. Over the next couple of months, as data emerges from vaccine clinical trials, the safety of potentially millions of people will rely on the scientific judgment of the F.D.A. “That’s a problem if they’re starting to exaggerate data,” Dr. Gellad said. “That’s the big problem.
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by 6ftstick »

seacoaster wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:27 pm What's a little intrusion of political hackery into science? It's hard to imagine this Administration exaggerating the benefits of an unproven therapy, right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/heal ... ticleShare

"At a news conference on Sunday announcing the emergency approval of blood plasma for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, President Trump and two of his top health officials cited the same statistic: that the treatment had reduced deaths by 35 percent.

Mr. Trump called it a “tremendous” number. His health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, a former pharmaceutical executive, said, “I don’t want you to gloss over this number.” And Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said 35 out of 100 Covid-19 patients “would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.”

But scientists were taken aback by the way the administration framed this data, which appeared to have been calculated based on a small subgroup of hospitalized Covid-19 patients in a Mayo Clinic study: those who were under 80 years old, not on ventilators and received plasma known to contain high levels of virus-fighting antibodies within three days of diagnosis.

What’s more, many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where the statistic came from. The number was not mentioned in the official authorization letter issued by the agency, nor was it in a 17-page memo written by F.D.A. scientists. It was not in an analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic that has been frequently cited by the administration.

“For the first time ever, I feel like official people in communications and people at the F.D.A. grossly misrepresented data about a therapy,” said Dr. Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh.

It is especially worrisome, he said, given concerns over how Mr. Trump has appeared to politicize the process of approving treatments and vaccines for the coronavirus. Over the next couple of months, as data emerges from vaccine clinical trials, the safety of potentially millions of people will rely on the scientific judgment of the F.D.A. “That’s a problem if they’re starting to exaggerate data,” Dr. Gellad said. “That’s the big problem.
AHHH a difference of opinion.

Heres another

“Available evidence of efficacy of HCQ+AZ has been repeatedly described in the media as “anecdotal,” but most certainly is not.”

A new article to be published by Oxford University Press, on behalf of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, calls for hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to be made widely available and promoted immediately for physicians, to be prescribed for early outpatient treatment.

The article, titled “Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis,” is authored by Professor Harvey Risch, MD, from Yale University.

“There is a small chance that it may not work. But the urgency demands that we at least start to take that risk and evaluate what happens, and if our situation does not improve we can stop it …”

“… but we will know that we did everything that we could instead of sitting by and letting hundreds of thousands die because we did not have the courage to act according to our rational calculations.”
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by seacoaster »

6ftstick wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:35 pm
seacoaster wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:27 pm What's a little intrusion of political hackery into science? It's hard to imagine this Administration exaggerating the benefits of an unproven therapy, right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/heal ... ticleShare

"At a news conference on Sunday announcing the emergency approval of blood plasma for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, President Trump and two of his top health officials cited the same statistic: that the treatment had reduced deaths by 35 percent.

Mr. Trump called it a “tremendous” number. His health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, a former pharmaceutical executive, said, “I don’t want you to gloss over this number.” And Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said 35 out of 100 Covid-19 patients “would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.”

But scientists were taken aback by the way the administration framed this data, which appeared to have been calculated based on a small subgroup of hospitalized Covid-19 patients in a Mayo Clinic study: those who were under 80 years old, not on ventilators and received plasma known to contain high levels of virus-fighting antibodies within three days of diagnosis.

What’s more, many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where the statistic came from. The number was not mentioned in the official authorization letter issued by the agency, nor was it in a 17-page memo written by F.D.A. scientists. It was not in an analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic that has been frequently cited by the administration.

“For the first time ever, I feel like official people in communications and people at the F.D.A. grossly misrepresented data about a therapy,” said Dr. Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh.

It is especially worrisome, he said, given concerns over how Mr. Trump has appeared to politicize the process of approving treatments and vaccines for the coronavirus. Over the next couple of months, as data emerges from vaccine clinical trials, the safety of potentially millions of people will rely on the scientific judgment of the F.D.A. “That’s a problem if they’re starting to exaggerate data,” Dr. Gellad said. “That’s the big problem.
AHHH a difference of opinion.

Heres another

“Available evidence of efficacy of HCQ+AZ has been repeatedly described in the media as “anecdotal,” but most certainly is not.”

A new article to be published by Oxford University Press, on behalf of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, calls for hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to be made widely available and promoted immediately for physicians, to be prescribed for early outpatient treatment.

The article, titled “Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis,” is authored by Professor Harvey Risch, MD, from Yale University.

“There is a small chance that it may not work. But the urgency demands that we at least start to take that risk and evaluate what happens, and if our situation does not improve we can stop it …”

“… but we will know that we did everything that we could instead of sitting by and letting hundreds of thousands die because we did not have the courage to act according to our rational calculations.”
OK, and that's the basic problem with an Administration that almost always lies about everything. No one really trusts the President.
6ftstick
Posts: 3194
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by 6ftstick »

Cuomo Rejects Independent Investigation of N.Y. Nursing Home Deaths, Saying It Would Be ‘Political’

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/cuo ... -GXYGzweAg

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
jhu72
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Navarro is pi$$ed off because the FDA came back and told the truth about the blood plasma.

The basic problem with the morons in the Trump administration is they insist on trying to get the scientists to lie for them, giving them cover for their dumbassness. Trump and his admins have the legal authority to release the therapy. JUST F***ING DO IT!! Take the heat, man up. Admit to the public what you are doing. If you f***kup, it is on you. Damn politicians.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
DocBarrister
Posts: 6657
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: Not Good

Post by DocBarrister »

wgdsr wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:07 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:38 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:14 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:24 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:19 am What many have feared ... world’s first confirmed case of novel coronavirus re-reinfection.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science ... y-n1237840

This suggests that for some or many (or most or all?) people, any immunity through infection/recovery or vaccination will be temporary.

Not good.

DocBarrister :?
One possible implication ... we may face a future requiring constant vigilance against this virus. Meaning, repeated vaccinations and occasional isolations and shutdowns when local outbreaks occur.

DocBarrister :|
Read what the article stated,the patient was asymptomatic the throughout the re-infection. Its likely that the his immune system having familiarity with the virus prevented him/her from experiencing any symptoms. This is a rather extremist take, there is nothing that is NOT good about it. Reinfection does not and rarely has to be associated with worse symptoms. This would fly in the face of every scientific principle known to mankind. This isn't a new virus, just a very different strain of the Coronavirus family that has been around for quite a while. This post is leaving a lot of what the article said and inserting your alarmist beliefs into it. I am a casual observer of this forum, but a lot of the time its very hard to even take you serious. You are purposefully divisive, alarmist, insensitive and take things to the extreme every chance you get. I get it, you are unhappy with the current leadership in this country, but that doesn't call for some of the extreme takes that you throw out in regards to this virus. There's a lot of people unhappy with the leadership as you are, yet they don't abandon their sense of rational belief and make such divisive statements as if they are making them just to elicit some sort of response that they may seek.

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89!
The ignorance in your post is truly astonishing. I would correct every errant statement in your post, but I have a day job and don’t have the time to teach you all you should know.

You also missed a key point ... the second infection was caused by a different variant of the novel coronavirus. Same virus, different variant. That is definitely bad.

Public health officials were hoping that long-term immunity would be possible with the Covid-19 virus (as it was with SARS and MERS). Such long-term immunity was key to getting those earlier pandemics under control. More and more, that does not seem likely with the novel coronavirus. In other words, the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) is not like other viruses.

There is also another sickness involved here ... a repugnant and dishonest effort to portray SARS-CoV-2 as just another strain of coronavirus.

WRONG ... we’re well on our way to a million worldwide deaths despite the most extreme infection mitigation efforts in over a century (plus, modern medicine and technology). There will likely be a quarter million dead Americans by the end of the year. THAT is nothing like other recent coronaviruses. To say otherwise is disrespectful, dishonest, and ignorant.

Seriously, let’s stop with the ignorant posts.

DocBarrister
could you explain why you state that long-term immunity is what
was key to getting sars and mers under control?
Long-term immunity increases the time period during which a previously infected individual is less susceptible to reinfection. That helps the development of immunity in a general population and aids in stopping the spread of the virus. For both SARS and MERS, immunity could persist for years.

For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851497/

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/870592_3

Long-term immunity could also increase the chances of developing an effective vaccine that provides long-term protection, although that is not always possible with these viruses.

If the immunity period for SARS-CoV-2 is as short as several months, which early research is suggesting, that will make it much more difficult to stop the spread of the virus and to develop a vaccine that provides long-term protection.

Hope that answers your (good) question.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
njbill
Posts: 7081
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by njbill »

No doubt in my mind that, oh say, around October 15, Trump is going to try to force the FDA to “announce” that an effective vaccine has been approved and will be released “shortly” to the American public.
DocBarrister
Posts: 6657
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by DocBarrister »

njbill wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:31 pm No doubt in my mind that, oh say, around October 15, Trump is going to try to force the FDA to “announce” that an effective vaccine has been approved and will be released “shortly” to the American public.
There is no doubt that Trump will try.

And there is no doubt that adequate testing cannot be completed by that time.

Once again, Trump is willing to gamble with the lives of Americans, including American children, for his political gain.

DocBarrister :?
@DocBarrister
ggait
Posts: 4160
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by ggait »

ggait....is your point they (SW) cleared CV-19 because they hunkered down and hid from it or that Herd Immunity solved it.
Sweden is now in the same place as the other Nordic and Euro countries. There's little evidence that Sweden has developed herd immunity.

Much more likely is that Swedes eventually just got serious about SD like everyone else in Europe did. While Sweden didn't issue lock down orders, the Swedes did their lock down by following recommendations.

So it is somewhat of a myth that the Swedes were letting it rip the whole time (they weren't). And that they got bailed out by herd immunity.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”