The Nation's Financial Condition

[Peter Brown]

Amazon paid a state and local tax rate of 0.12% in 2018 vs Revenues and 2.7% vs. profits. 300M in taxes vs. 232B in revenues vs. 11B in profit. Not sure how much of that SALT went to Seattle.

Amazon paid $0 in Federal taxes in 2018.

PB is super cool with corporate socialism and doesn't even know it. He's redder than most of the forum!

Amazon is also the largest property tax payer in the city. It’s the largest payroll tax employer. It directly supports hundreds of service providers that focus on Amazon.

Why do Democrats hate success?

[a fan]

Amazon is also the largest property tax payer in the city. It’s the largest payroll tax employer. It directly supports hundreds of service providers that focus on Amazon.

They're also the largest consumer of government services, Pete. You understand that's why we collect taxes, right?

For one thing, we all get taxed so that guys like you, who didn't study enough in high school, can get a degree from a Government school.

If Amazon doesn't pay this tax, who will, Pete?

That's right! Ding ding ding! Other businesses.

Why do you hate business and success, Pete? Why are you forcing other businesses to pay Amazon's taxes for them?

[Peter Brown]

Amazon is also the largest property tax payer in the city. It’s the largest payroll tax employer. It directly supports hundreds of service providers that focus on Amazon.

They're also the largest consumer of government services, Pete. You understand that's why we collect taxes, right?

For one thing, we all get taxed so that guys like you, who didn't study enough in high school, can get a degree from a Government school.

If Amazon doesn't pay this tax, who will, Pete?

That's right! Ding ding ding! Other businesses.

Why do you hate business and success, Pete? Why are you forcing other businesses to pay Amazon's taxes for them?

If Amazon doesn't pay this tax, who will, Pete?



What are you, the CFO of Seattle? You're quite certain that Amazon is not a net contributor of tax revenue (taking into acount every possible angle of pay, from payroll taxes to property taxes to income taxes to sales taxes to vendor taxes)! You have some amazing talents, a fan! Can you be my CFO?

Hint: neither you nor I know anything about Amazon's total tax input to the city of Seattle nor the State of Washington. What I can guess (simply because my IQ is a shade over 70, were we all ) is that you need private sector companies to actually pay for government, and you might want to attract not repel private businesses in order to have the government you adore. Another way to look at that is: we can't all work for the government, in spite of your fevered dreams.

Finally, If for any reason Amazon is taxed at a lower % than neighboring businesses (highly unlikely, but let's play along with your tin hat conspiracy), do you know who has controlled the city of Seattle and the State of Washington for the last 30 years? Feel free to verify yourself:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_ ... Washington
https://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/se ... 48-present

Yup, your home team. Take up your grievances with your fellow rabid lefties here at Fanlax; excoriate them for making the mistakes you claim to know intimately, and set them straight on tax governance.

Thanks!

[a fan]

What are you, the CFO of Seattle? You're quite certain that Amazon is not a net contributor of tax revenue (taking into acount every possible angle of pay, from payroll taxes to property taxes to income taxes to sales taxes to vendor taxes)! You have some amazing talents, a fan! Can you be my CFO?

Nope, not the CFO of Seattle, Pete. I can add and subtract, though.

And there it is: you all think like this. You think that it's sooooo complicated, and the numbers are so big, that of course Amazon "makes it up somewhere else"

Here's what you're forgetting, Pete: are you going to apply this math of yours to all the businesses in Washington State?

Nope. You think Amazon "deserves" a tax break "because" it brings in so much money. What you forget is: so does every F-ing business in Seattle and Washington State. Do they get these sweetheart breaks? Nope. Amazon sends lobbyists to DC and Olympia to get both line item deals, and to game the overall tax system.

Tin Hat conspiracies??? Do you know how much Amazon paid on their profits of $11.2 Billion in 2018? They didn't. They didn't pay a cent. Who cares, right? They make it up "somewhere else", right?

Wanna know how much my brother and I paid in 2018 to various governments? Not too far from seven figures. Gee, do-ya think we were a "net contributor" to government?

And yet where's my Amazon deal?

And guys like you think it makes perfect sense for my brother and I to pay Amazon's taxes for them. So small and medium business pays full freight---and Amazon pays nothing.

There's a REASON we set business tax rates where they are, Pete. We set them there to tax businesses (somewhat) fairly, and the US, States, and cities EXPECT the revenue from that set amount of business activity.

And every time you short that coffer---one of two things happen. One, services are cut. Or, two, "someone else" makes up the difference. (or three, we borrow more money to cover the shortfall)

That "someone else" means two things: small businesses like mine, and regular ol' citizens. So because the Pete Brown's of the world don't understand that when you cut Amazon's taxes......Pete Brown's taxes go up.....and Pete Brown complains that his taxes keep going up, yet services don't improve.

So then you whine about "bad government", not understanding that YOU were the man who thought it would be a great idea to give Amazon massive tax breaks. YOU are the reason your personal and property taxes keep going up.

YOU are the reason that our infrastructure is completely falling apart.

And there are millions of you. Millions of people who don't understand that THEY are the reason that taxes keep going up for ordinary, hard working people and businesses...and YOU are the reason our country is running a massive deficit.

Get it? So next time someone talks about tax breaks for yet another Amazon, remember that what they are about to do is: raise YOUR taxes to pay for Amazon's share. Wise up! And tell them to go to hell.

And don't hand me this "the Dems are in charge" nonsense. These deals are in operation in every single State....as well as, most importantly, the Federal level. So yep, Amazon enjoys a line-time tax break at the State level aimed at tech companies. THAT is the problem. Yes, the Dems are to blame in this case.....but they are operating according to the financial ideas that YOU endorse, Pete.

[Peter Brown]

What are you, the CFO of Seattle? You're quite certain that Amazon is not a net contributor of tax revenue (taking into acount every possible angle of pay, from payroll taxes to property taxes to income taxes to sales taxes to vendor taxes)! You have some amazing talents, a fan! Can you be my CFO?

Nope, not the CFO of Seattle, Pete. I can add and subtract, though.

And there it is: you all think like this. You think that it's sooooo complicated, and the numbers are so big, that of course Amazon "makes it up somewhere else"

Here's what you're forgetting, Pete: are you going to apply this math of yours to all the businesses in Washington State?

Nope. You think Amazon "deserves" a tax break "because" it brings in so much money. What you forget is: so does every F-ing business in Seattle and Washington State. Do they get these sweetheart breaks? Nope. Amazon sends lobbyists to DC and Olympia to get both line item deals, and to game the overall tax system.

Tin Hat conspiracies??? Do you know how much Amazon paid on their profits of $11.2 Billion in 2018? They didn't. They didn't pay a cent. Who cares, right? They make it up "somewhere else", right?

Wanna know how much my brother and I paid in 2018 to various governments? Not too far from seven figures. Gee, do-ya think we were a "net contributor" to government?

And yet where's my Amazon deal?

And guys like you think it makes perfect sense for my brother and I to pay Amazon's taxes for them. So small and medium business pays full freight---and Amazon pays nothing.

There's a REASON we set business tax rates where they are, Pete. We set them there to tax businesses (somewhat) fairly, and the US, States, and cities EXPECT the revenue from that set amount of business activity.

And every time you short that coffer---one of two things happen. One, services are cut. Or, two, "someone else" makes up the difference. (or three, we borrow more money to cover the shortfall)

That "someone else" means two things: small businesses like mine, and regular ol' citizens. So because the Pete Brown's of the world don't understand that when you cut Amazon's taxes......Pete Brown's taxes go up.....and Pete Brown complains that his taxes keep going up, yet services don't improve.

So then you whine about "bad government", not understanding that YOU were the man who thought it would be a great idea to give Amazon massive tax breaks. YOU are the reason your personal and property taxes keep going up.

YOU are the reason that our infrastructure is completely falling apart.

And there are millions of you. Millions of people who don't understand that THEY are the reason that taxes keep going up for ordinary, hard working people and businesses...and YOU are the reason our country is running a massive deficit.

Get it? So next time someone talks about tax breaks for yet another Amazon, remember that what they are about to do is: raise YOUR taxes to pay for Amazon's share. Wise up! And tell them to go to hell.

And don't hand me this "the Dems are in charge" nonsense. These deals are in operation in every single State....as well as, most importantly, the Federal level. So yep, Amazon enjoys a line-time tax break at the State level aimed at tech companies. THAT is the problem. Yes, the Dems are to blame in this case.....but they are operating according to the financial ideas that YOU endorse, Pete.

Lighten up Francis. It’s okay to answer, “you’re correct, I don’t know”. Amazon’s tax people would have a vociferous argument to make with you, though past being prologue and all, I don’t think you’d accept anybody’s opinion on this unless it supports your fantasies.

Amazon’s gross tax payments aren’t simply calculated by their income tax; the tax code has some extreme carve outs, but I don’t think Amazon is one. These dudes pay a ton at every level. Maybe you should argue for a fairer flatter tax code, or a consumption tax? Why do I bother?

Finally and as I’ve stated several times, don’t play Sisters of the Poor with me about your company’s tax bite. Any liquor company pays less than 1% what they actually cost society. I like booze more than probably anybody here and I’m not jamming your industry about its inability to cover its actual costs to society via alcoholism, drink driving deaths, liver disease, etc, but spare the board your crocodile tears; NO ONE HAS IT BETTER THAN A LIQUOR COMPANY regarding what it costs America versus what it pays in tax. I mean, no one. You’re lucky you’re not nationalized; don’t worry, I won’t mention it to Polis.

[a fan]

Lighten up Francis. It’s okay to answer, “you’re correct, I don’t know”.

:lol:You really don't get it, so you double down.

Ok. Keep telling your government that you want to pay Amazon's taxes, knock yourself out.

Jeff Bezos says thank you, and he'll be giving your money to Dem candidates.

Amazon’s tax people would have a vociferous argument to make with you, though past being prologue and all, I don’t think you’d accept anybody’s opinion on this unless it supports your fantasies.

Fantasy? In 2018, my little company paid hundreds of thousands of dollars more in Federal taxes than Amazon did for business activity.

Those are real, actual numbers, Pete. Cut and dry. Black and white. You don't get to pretend they're not real numbers.

You think that they shouldn't have to pay those taxes, yet every other business like mine should. You're not making a lick of sense here, and you know it.

Amazon’s gross tax payments aren’t simply calculated by their income tax; the tax code has some extreme carve outs, but I don’t think Amazon is one. These dudes pay a ton at every level.

So does every company, Pete. So what?

You have two choices here, Pete.

-either you think that all American business should be treated the same in the tax code, or
-you think that large corporations should pay far less, and small business should pay their taxes for them

Pick one. You don't get to pretend that that's not what's happening. If you choose the latter, great...but at least understand that that's what you're asking the Feds to do.

Maybe you should argue for a fairer flatter tax code, or a consumption tax?

Already have. We've discussed it a ton over the years. Ask your fellow posters about my position on a consumption-only Federal tax.

Finally and as I’ve stated several times, don’t play Sisters of the Poor with me about your company’s tax bite. Any liquor company pays less than 1% what they actually cost society.

Once again, showing that you wouldn't know what a conservative was if they fell on you.

This is a massive feature of American liberal thought, Pete. You DO know that right? Where do you think the idea of a soda tax came from, Pete?

You're telling me that you're FOR that tax, Pete?

There are LEGIONS of scientists who would be OVERJOYED to tax companies for the total lifecycle costs of their products, and hit your company for tax after tax for what the REAL costs your products bear on society.

Do you have ANY IDEA how happy liberals would be if you taxed the hell out of unhealthy fast food? Or a car, and all those accidents? And do we charge companies that create toxic chemicals? How about for what your company does to air quality with all that jet fuel being burned, Pete.

How much would a handgun cost in this little world of yours, Pete? $50,000? Tax bullets at $10 a piece?


And you're telling me that this is what you want? Mr. "I hate liberal thought, and am pro-business".

For a guy who swears to his life values, you can't make it five minutes without contradicting yourself, Pete.

[Peter Brown]

Maybe you should argue for a fairer flatter tax code, or a consumption tax?

Already have. We've discussed it a ton over the years. Ask your fellow posters about my position on a consumption-only Federal tax.

[/quote]




We have found common agreement on something!!!!

And don't worry about me ratting out the liquor industry; I hate that the biz enabled four generations of loser Kennedy's to avoid work and inheritance taxes, but such is life. I'm not one for petty jealousy.

I give more of my hard earned dough to your industry than anyone I know. I just spent $164 at a wine store. Plus I have some schmo friend who insists I have 'Crown Royal' when he visits which is tonight, so I had to buy that gut-ripple too. Good times though.

It's always good to be an American; I can't empathize with anyone who feels differently like some of these Fanlax Dems!

[a fan]

And don't worry about me ratting out the liquor industry

Go right ahead and do it. Now that we're 20 years in? All high domestic taxes do is keep competition out.

Barriers to entry. Yet another thing you're supposed to be against, Pete.

You clearly understand my points, though, and are moving on.

And now we have one more guy who understands why giving Amazon a free ride is why their own personal taxes are so high....

Cool.

[CU88]

The record market, explained (from NYT)

Despite a global pandemic and double-digit unemployment in the United States, the S&P 500 stock index reached a new high yesterday.

We asked Andrew Ross Sorkin, a business columnist and founder of The Times’s DealBook newsletter, to help us understand how the market could be doing so well amid economic devastation.

As irrational as it might seem, here’s the way investors rationalize the bullish stock market to themselves (we’ll only find out whether they are right or wrong in the future):

1. The stock market is forward-looking: Investors are betting on what the world and the economy look like in 12 to 18 months from now, not what they look like today, tomorrow or this fall.

2. The big get bigger: Much of the stock market’s success has been the result of a run-up in value for a few big technology companies — including Apple, Amazon and Microsoft — that make up a large share of the index. And retailers like Walmart and Home Depot are growing in part because small businesses have closed, allowing the bigger companies to take even more market share.

3. Betting on a vaccine: Given the daily headlines about the potential for a vaccine, investors want to be invested in the market when the news comes that there is a genuine vaccine, on the assumption that it will send stocks even higher.

4. The only game in town: With the Federal Reserve planning to print money for the foreseeable future, investors don’t want to be in cash or bonds, which are steadily losing value. So where else can they put their money? The stock market has become a default.

5. Help from Washington: As dysfunctional as Congress has proved to be, investors are betting that Republicans and Democrats will find a way to keep plying the economy with stimulus. (Anecdotal stories suggest some Americans have even taken their $600 unemployment checks and invested them in the stock market.)

Of course, all of these rationalizations don’t take into account the possibility of a terrible second or third coronavirus wave, a delay in the discovery of a vaccine, a constitutional crisis come the election in November, runaway inflation, the prospect of higher taxes to pay for the stimulus, a more significant trade war with China, or the dozens of other risks that seem to be bubbling just below — and in some cases on — the surface.

In the meantime, happy trading!

[Peter Brown]

Apple hits $2 trillion market cap. Amazing. America is the greatest!

Full disclosure: I thought Blackberry would be larger ( the old Research in Motion).

[holmes435]

Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a month for 3 years

Unemployment here in the US is still extremely high, we'll see what the effect the drop in unemployment cash has on the economy. I was able to hire an additional worker in August, and I had around 100 applications get submitted in an 8 hour span. I'm hoping our sales continue to increase like they were before the pandemic. We saw a 40% drop in sales the first two weeks of lockdown, then it jumped back to normal after that. Was certainly stress inducing, and we're one of the lucky ones.

[youthathletics]

The record market, explained (from NYT)

Despite a global pandemic and double-digit unemployment in the United States, the S&P 500 stock index reached a new high yesterday.
In the meantime, happy trading!

#Winning

[CU88]

We are now at 22 weeks in a row in which more people have filed for unemployment benefits than during the single worst week of the Great Recession.

MAGA...

[Jim Malone]

Pefect skew of raw data.

105M ish US population in 1929, unemployment was 14% ish 15.4M

320M ish US population today, unemployment is at its highest this year 14% ish

We are now at 22 weeks in a row in which more people have filed for unemployment benefits than during the single worst week of the Great Recession.

MAGA...

[Peter Brown]

We are now at 22 weeks in a row in which more people have filed for unemployment benefits than during the single worst week of the Great Recession.

MAGA...

And yet the stock market (unlike say 1929) has not only NOT CRASHED, it's recovered to new highs on the S&P and Nasdaq! Wonder why that is...

I guess you could keep wishing for more fallout, but not sure that'll help.

[njbill]

So, Pete, what stocks is the Oracle of Boca Grande touting today?

Hoping for better luck this time. A few months ago, on your recommendation I sold all of my Apple stock to buy Gilead.

[Peter Brown]

So, Pete, what stocks is the Oracle of Boca Grande touting today?

Hoping for better luck this time. A few months ago, on your recommendation I sold all of my Apple stock to buy Gilead.

Aren't most of this board FIRE industry employees? Ask them! I'm just a country boy who plays with jet engines.

[a fan]

And yet the stock market (unlike say 1929) has not only NOT CRASHED, it's recovered to new highs on the S&P and Nasdaq! Wonder why that is...

Because the Stock Market doesn't represent what economic conditions are on the ground, Pete. Not complicated.

But you know this. And it makes you sound like a princeling, offering the rabble cake. "my life is great, so what's the problem?"

[Typical Lax Dad]

The record market, explained (from NYT)

Despite a global pandemic and double-digit unemployment in the United States, the S&P 500 stock index reached a new high yesterday.
In the meantime, happy trading!

#Winning

#Winning

[foreverlax]

We are now at 22 weeks in a row in which more people have filed for unemployment benefits than during the single worst week of the Great Recession.

MAGA...

And yet the stock market (unlike say 1929) has not only NOT CRASHED, it's recovered to new highs on the S&P and Nasdaq! Wonder why that is...

I guess you could keep wishing for more fallout, but not sure that'll help.

I've tried to explain it to you several times before, but it either goes over your head or you don't like facts.