OBAMAGATE

[old salt]

The "Rosetta Stone" of Obamagate:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 43628.html

Alright, can you help a fella out here, Kram?

I'm at a complete loss as to your position here.

You've already complained---multiple times----about Trump's impeachment for using his office to investigate a political rival, right?

So what is is that you think your "ObamaGate" is about, in your wildest imagination?

Isn't your ENTIRE reason for wanting to go after Obama and your Deep State because they "used the power of office to investigate a political rival (Trump)"?

Didn't you already tell us that you think that behavior is A-OK? So then what's the deal here?

Having told us, after reading the FBI love birds texts, that they were unbiased,
you wouldn't acknowledge the Rosetta Stone if it was dropped on your head.

You're just trolling to launch another false equivalency (Rudy & Ukraine, I bet).

[a fan]

Having told us, after reading the FBI love birds texts, that they were unbiased

That's not what I told you.

What I told you geniuses who are unable to think on your own when it comes to anything Trump, every single agent in the FBI votes.

And what you intellectual giants are telling me, is that that disqualifies them from investigating anyone. Because if they don't like
who they are investigating, "obviously", they can't do their jobs.

And sadly, i tried to walk you guys through how utterly stupid that idea was several times. And as I see here, it didn't sink in.

It's TrumpThink. You hear it so many times from TrumpNation, you figure that it makes sense.

You're just trolling to launch another false equivalency (Rudy & Ukraine, I bet)

Nope. I'm pointing out that your moral compass is based on party affiliation. There isn't a poster here, including you, who doesn't know that. If I gave you a list of things Trump has done, and a list of things Obama has done without their names attached, you'd give us entirely different opinions on the matter than if you knew who did those things.

It's a bummer, but I've accepted it for what it is. We all have flaws, yours truly in particular. I'd still love to buy you beers and crab legs, and catch a Navy game, and we'd have a ball....talk lacrosse, family, life, and avoid politics. And we'd look forward to the next time we'd meet for said games.

Same goes for everyone here, for that matter.

[old salt]

Having told us, after reading the FBI love birds texts, that they were unbiased

That's not what I told you.
You're having a memory lapse. Because IG Horowitz could not find sufficient evidence to sanction them, based in their texts, you claimed that was proof that their bias did not influence their pursuit of Trump. Subsequent evidence has shown what a naive assertion that was.

What I told you geniuses who are unable to think on your own when it comes to anything Trump, every single agent in the FBI votes.
That subsequent evidence demonstrated that they were texting about far more than who they were going to vote for.

And what you intellectual giants are telling me, is that that disqualifies them from investigating anyone. Because if they don't like
who they are investigating, "obviously", they can't do their jobs.
So why don't they still have those jobs ?

And sadly, i tried to walk you guys through how utterly stupid that idea was several times. And as I see here, it didn't sink in.

It's TrumpThink. You hear it so many times from TrumpNation, you figure that it makes sense.
Drip, drip, drip. The evidence keeps coming.

You're just trolling to launch another false equivalency (Rudy & Ukraine, I bet)

Nope. I'm pointing out that your moral compass is based on party affiliation. There isn't a poster here, including you, who doesn't know that. If I gave you a list of things Trump has done, and a list of things Obama has done without their names attached, you'd give us entirely different opinions on the matter than if you knew who did those things.
Nixon was a (R). I voted for him. I didn't complain when he got nailed for Watergate. Deep Throat leaked about actual crimes, not purchased Russian disinformation oppo. I didn't think Bill Clinton needed to be impeached. The truth was sufficient punishment. I didn't think HRC needed to be prosecuted. I wanted to see ALL of her emails recovered & her security clearance revoked, as a validation of her wrong doing. In both Clinton cases, just the truth was sufficient political punishment, for me. If Mueller had found what the MSM told us he would, I'd have been for impeachment & removal of Trump.

It's a bummer, but I've accepted it for what it is. We all have flaws, yours truly in particular. I'd still love to buy you beers and crab legs, and catch a Navy game, and we'd have a ball....talk lacrosse, family, life, and avoid politics. And we'd look forward to the next time we'd meet for said games.
I'm anxious to see the impact of the 2020 cancellation on future schedules. Too soon to even hope for 2021l
Same goes for everyone here, for that matter.

[a fan]

You're having a memory lapse. Because IG Horowitz could not find sufficient evidence to sanction them, based in their texts, you claimed that was proof that their bias did not influence their pursuit of Trump. Subsequent evidence has shown what a naive assertion that was.

Nope. I remember every last bit of it. You play this stupid game of "show me proof" when it comes to Trump, and "no proof needed" when it comes to anyone in your magic Deep State.

Have Page and Strozk been convicted of any crimes? Nope. Old Salt's bar of proof says: go away, ya got nothing.

That subsequent evidence demonstrated that they were texting about far more than who they were going to vote for.

So double down on the silliness. So what? 1st amendment. Can you PROVE it affected their job? Nope. You can't. So let it go, and move on. Old Salt rules.

So why don't they still have those jobs ?

For using government phones to text stupid messages to each other. Stupidity.

Stupidity isn't against the law. But it sure as *hit can get you fired.

Drip, drip, drip. The evidence keeps coming.

Nope.

Innuendo doesn't count. Appearances of impropriety don't count. The only thing that counts is proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, remember?

Four years in, and no indictments. Get me a conviction, or your wild accusations don't count. YOU set these rules. So did 6ft. And tech. And Kram. And YA, and, and.... You set the rules. Let's play by your rules.

You're just trolling to launch another false equivalency (Rudy & Ukraine, I bet)

Nixon was a (R). I voted for him. I didn't complain when he got nailed for Watergate. [/quote]But you defended him right up until you got to the tapes.

For me, looking back at what TrumpLand thinks is ok with Trump and Ukraine? Nixon should have, and would have, walked in 2020, even with the tapes. Zero question.

Heck, setting aside WaterGate and some of the Vietnam shenanigans? Top 10 President. Smart. Long term thinker. Willing to tell his party to get bent because he's smarter than everyone else in the party (China).

If Mueller had found what the MSM told us he would, I'd have been for impeachment & removal of Trump.

He stopped looking, and didn't look into Trump's finances. I'm glad he didn't, for reasons I gave you when this started.

The attempt to work with a Russian spy was enough for me. And I'm OVERJOYED that US Intel lost their *hit when they found out about that, and started digging even more. Trump is a POS, and I'm OVERJOYED they made sure he was clean. Worth every penny of this taxpayer's money.

I'm anxious to see the impact of the 2020 cancellation on future schedules. Too soon to even hope for 2021l[/color]

Sigh. It's a mess. I don't think we'll have lacrosse in the spring...not without, at a minimum, moving the starting dates.

Enjoy your weekend, Old Salt !

[njbill]

Because IG Horowitz could not find sufficient evidence to sanction them, based in their texts, you claimed that was proof that their bias did not influence their pursuit of Trump. Subsequent evidence has shown what a naive assertion that was.

Not sure what “subsequent evidence” you are referring to. Horowitz found that Strzok and Page were not decision-makers. He also found there was no evidence that any bias influenced decisions.

Clearly, Strzok and Page did not like Trump. (Indeed, they were in good company as the majority of Americans didn't like him.) If you want to conclude they were biased against him, maybe that’s true.

It is one thing to be biased. It is another to allow your bias to influence your actions or decisions.

Actually, we want law-enforcement to be biased against the bad guys. We want Elliot Ness to be biased against Al Capone. We want Vincent Bugliosi to be biased against Charlie Manson.

What we don’t want, however, is for law enforcement to allow any such bias to lead to the fabrication of evidence, suborning perjury, or the like. There is no evidence that Strzok or or Page or anybody else did that.

If you are referring to Horowitz’ criticism of the Carter Page FISA warrant application, first of all, none of the Carter Page stuff ever went anywhere. It didn’t lead to any of the “collusion” evidence involving Trump or the extensive obstruction of justice evidence against him. Horowitz found that the FBI had added the phrase “not a source” to an email from the agency that described its relationship with Page. This addition was accurate, but it was clearly wrong to alter someone else’s email. Plus this alteration wasn’t particularly significant in terms of the entire FISA warrant application.

What this guy did was dumb, dumb, dumb, maybe criminal. He should have simply emailed the guy back or called him and asked him to revise his own email to add the phrase in question. That would have been perfectly proper.

In my work, I revised affidavits many times. But I would send the revised affidavit back to the affiant and make sure he or she agreed to the changes and was comfortable swearing to them under oath.

[Brooklyn]

Trump.

Al Capone.

Charlie Manson.

dumb, dumb, dumb, maybe criminal

Let's add the names of Benedict Arnold, Hitler, and Mussolini --- that's quite a rogue's gallery there and combined they ain't worth a s----t.

[old salt]

The attempt to work with a Russian spy was enough for me. And I'm OVERJOYED that US Intel lost their *hit when they found out about that, and started digging even more. Trump is a POS, and I'm OVERJOYED they made sure he was clean. Worth every penny of this taxpayer's money.

Well, that's certainly probable cause to launch a counter intel investigation against a political opponent. Not just a discrete inquiry, but vectoring confidential informants to fabricate & entrap campaign volunteers. Paying for Russian disinformation already funded by HRC & the DNC, then leaking everything to the media. They started the spying well before the Trump Tower meeting.

Research -- Stefan Halper, Azra Turk, Svetlana Lokhova, Josef Mifsud --> The Keystone Cops meet the Pink Panther.
Are you ok with what they did to Carter Page ? They went after Page, Papadop & Flynn as soon as they joined the campaign.
Long before Flynn made his first call to the Russian Amb. I pointed it out to you on LP as it was happening.

It's one thing to do a covert secret due diligence counter intel investigation, so long as nothing leaks & no innocents are harmed.
It's another thing using the FBI & IC to try to frame or entrap political enemies.

[a fan]

The attempt to work with a Russian spy was enough for me. And I'm OVERJOYED that US Intel lost their *hit when they found out about that, and started digging even more. Trump is a POS, and I'm OVERJOYED they made sure he was clean. Worth every penny of this taxpayer's money.

Well, that's certainly probable cause to launch a counter intel investigation against a political opponent.

Scoreboard. How many felons did Mueller find, Old Salt? If there was nothing to the charges, why did so many of Trump's people lie about what they did every chance they got? Who cares, right? It's just the leader of the free world, surrounded by morally and ethically compromised felons, right?

You treat this entire episode as if we're dealing with the squeaky clean Eisenhower administration, and it was just INSANE to think that honest-as-the-day-is-long-TeamTrump would NEVER do unethical things, or lie, or become obvious easy pickings for Putin.

You and I see this entirely differently. Always have.

For me, I completely checked out of TeamTinFoil's Deep State complaints when all of you here at the Forum didn't blink when Trump roped in a foreign leader to go after Biden. You didn't care.

So nope, I don't care about your wild assertions anymore. Don't care. And even if they manage a conviction (good luck with that)? I'll be here making the same excuses TeamTrump has made here at the Forum about how General Flynn's guilty pleas "don't count".

"Guilty? Flynn's not Guilty! Why would a guilty plea in front of a Federal Judge make you think Flynn was guilty? Boy, you're dumb for thinking that, a fan!!

Enjoy your Sunday, OS....

[old salt]

The attempt to work with a Russian spy was enough for me. And I'm OVERJOYED that US Intel lost their *hit when they found out about that, and started digging even more. Trump is a POS, and I'm OVERJOYED they made sure he was clean. Worth every penny of this taxpayer's money.

Well, that's certainly probable cause to launch a counter intel investigation against a political opponent.

Scoreboard. How many felons did Mueller find, Old Salt? If there was nothing to the charges, why did so many of Trump's people lie about what they did every chance they got? Who cares, right? It's just the leader of the free world, surrounded by morally and ethically compromised felons, right?

You treat this entire episode as if we're dealing with the squeaky clean Eisenhower administration, and it was just INSANE to think that honest-as-the-day-is-long-TeamTrump would NEVER do unethical things, or lie, or become obvious easy pickings for Putin.

You and I see this entirely differently. Always have.

For me, I completely checked out of TeamTinFoil's Deep State complaints when all of you here at the Forum didn't blink when Trump roped in a foreign leader to go after Biden. You didn't care.

So nope, I don't care about your wild assertions anymore. Don't care. And even if they manage a conviction (good luck with that)? I'll be here making the same excuses TeamTrump has made here at the Forum about how General Flynn's guilty pleas "don't count".

"Guilty? Flynn's not Guilty! Why would a guilty plea in front of a Federal Judge make you think Flynn was guilty? Boy, you're dumb for thinking that, a fan!!

Enjoy your Sunday, OS....

Stone, Papadop & Flynn were all entrapped on process crimes that were generated by the investigation.
No proven underlying criminal act by any of them.
Manafort & Gates for financial crimes from before they joined the campaign.

You're obsessed with the Russian spy lady, ...who was working for Fusion GPS.
It was a setup, but Fredo didn't take the bait. You're more naive than Fredo if you don't see it for what it was.

Last campaign, Ukraine provided the dubious "evidence" to the DNC that was used as probable cause to investigate Manafort.
Trump was trying to get similar evidence about Biden family dealings with Ukraine & USAID, which we still have not seen.

You know why Flynn took the guilty plea. He had no choice.
He would not have changed it had the sentencing Judge not implied that he was a traitor,
after he had co-operated fully with Mueller & earned a no jail time recommendation.

[a fan]

Stone, Papadop & Flynn were all entrapped on process crimes that were generated by the investigation.
No proven underlying criminal act by any of them.

First of all, that's not what entrapment is. If they were "entrapped", the judge would have dismissed their cases.

Second of all, and you are intentionally pretending you don't understand this---the lying is the whole enchilada. It's why we F'ed around with this stupid case for years. All the lying. You brush it aside the lying as if it's a footnote. As if US Intel is paid to ignore a suspect's lies. Just stop with this stuff.

One single lie led to four years of you cheering Benghazi investigations on. But when Trump's people lie about 1,000 times, you ignore it wholesale. It's nonsense.

You're obsessed with the Russian spy lady, ...who was working for Fusion GPS.
It was a setup

By whom? You think that there wasn't anything wrong with it. So where is the setup? And who set it up?

Good luck telling me that one....you keep telling me that she's not a Rusisan spy, and regular ol' citizens offer up inside political intel all the time.

I'm not obsessed with it. But you keep wanting to tell me that meeting with a Russian spy looking for dirt on Hillary is no big deal. Not even you believe your own nonsense on this count.

You flip out over GPS and Steele----but at the same time, you don't care that Kush & Trump met with a Russian spy? Riiiiiight. Of course you don't. And Fredo "wasn't' smart enough, FFS. What kind of idiot goes to the meeting personally? That's your idea of "Fredo seeing it for what it was"?


Last campaign, Ukraine provided the dubious "evidence" to the DNC that was used as probable cause to investigate Manafort.
Trump was trying to get similar evidence about Biden family dealings with Ukraine & USAID, which we still have not seen.

You know why Flynn took the guilty plea. He had no choice.

Right. He can't fight it in court. And you've been telling me for months that they have zero evidence that he lied in the first place.

[old salt]

Stone, Papadop & Flynn were all entrapped on process crimes that were generated by the investigation.
No proven underlying criminal act by any of them.

First of all, that's not what entrapment is. If they were "entrapped", the judge would have dismissed their cases.

Second of all, and you are intentionally pretending you don't understand this---the lying is the whole enchilada. It's why we F'ed around with this stupid case for years. All the lying. You brush it aside the lying as if it's a footnote. As if US Intel is paid to ignore a suspect's lies. Just stop with this stuff.
Flynn & Papadop would not have "lied" if they had counsel & weren't ambushed on bogus grounds. They were entrapped so they could be squeezed. There was no underlying crime. There's still no solid evidence that Stone committed espionage or conspired with Russians. They had to get him on process crimes.

One single lie led to four years of you cheering Benghazi investigations on. But when Trump's people lie about 1,000 times, you ignore it wholesale. It's nonsense.
Who was prosecuted or served time for the Benghazi lies.

You're obsessed with the Russian spy lady, ...who was working for Fusion GPS.
It was a setup

By whom? You think that there wasn't anything wrong with it. So where is the setup? And who set it up?
Fusion GPS. She met with Glenn Simpson the day prior & the day after the Trump Tower mtg.
Good luck telling me that one....you keep telling me that she's not a Rusisan spy, and regular ol' citizens offer up inside political intel all the time.

I'm not obsessed with it. But you keep wanting to tell me that meeting with a Russian spy looking for dirt on Hillary is no big deal. Not even you believe your own nonsense on this count.Fredo was dangled Russian sourced oppo (which did not exist). Stupid to take the mtg. Rookie mistake. No crime.

You flip out over GPS and Steele----but at the same time, you don't care that Kush & Trump met with a Russian spy? sent by GPS Riiiiiight. Of course you don't. And Fredo "wasn't' smart enough, FFS. What kind of idiot goes to the meeting personally? That's your idea of "Fredo seeing it for what it was"?


Last campaign, Ukraine provided the dubious "evidence" to the DNC that was used as probable cause to investigate Manafort.
Trump was trying to get similar evidence about Biden family dealings with Ukraine & USAID, which we still have not seen.

You know why Flynn took the guilty plea. He had no choice.

Right. He can't fight it in court. And you've been telling me for months that they have zero evidence that he lied in the first place.You'd do the same thing if your family or business were on the line & you were out of money to defend yourself.

[a fan]

Flynn & Papadop would not have "lied" if they had counsel & weren't ambushed on bogus grounds. They were entrapped so they could be squeezed. There was no underlying crime. There's still no solid evidence that Stone committed espionage or conspired with Russians. They had to get him on process crimes.

Right. Ignore the lying

Who was prosecuted or served time for the Benghazi lies.

No one! That's the whole, point, for heaven's sake! No one lied under oath. No one lied to the FBI. Get the difference here!?!?

You brush off lying in a legal setting as if it's just another day at the office, OS.

Fredo was dangled Russian sourced oppo (which did not exist). Stupid to take the mtg. Rookie mistake. No crime.

Right. We're back to "so what, that's not illegal". Ethics don't matter.

Problem here is that you don't apply this to your Deep State. Were laws broken? Great, indict. What's that you say, no one was indicted?

Well-----"rookie mistake. No crime."

You flip out over GPS and Steele----but at the same time, you don't care that Kush & Trump met with a Russian spy? sent by GPS Riiiiiight. Of course you don't. And Fredo "wasn't' smart enough, FFS. What kind of idiot goes to the meeting personally? That's your idea of "Fredo seeing it for what it was"?

You'd do the same thing if your family or business were on the line & you were out of money to defend yourself.[/color]

No. I wouldn't. Want to know what I'd do? Hire a public defender. You're insisting that there's no evidence of his crime? Great. A layup that that a 1st year public defender could handle, no problem. "Show me the evidence of this lie. Oh you don't have any? Great. Move to dismiss".

My business would go on merrily, and I wouldn't spend a dime.

[old salt]

Flynn & Papadop would not have "lied" if they had counsel & weren't ambushed on bogus grounds. They were entrapped so they could be squeezed. There was no underlying crime. There's still no solid evidence that Stone committed espionage or conspired with Russians. They had to get him on process crimes.

Right. Ignore the lying No. Don't generate process crimes when there's not sufficient evidence found via other means. Don't initiate an investigation based upon Russian disinformation purchased by a political opponent.

Who was prosecuted or served time for the Benghazi lies.

No one! That's the whole, point, for heaven's sake! No one lied under oath. No one lied to the FBI. Get the difference here!?!?

You brush off lying in a legal setting as if it's just another day at the office, OS.
The Benghazi lies were preplanned, staff prepared, talking points, repeatedly presented to the public as the position of the Obama admin.
Flynn & Padop were ambushed & should not have been targeted or tricked. .

Fredo was dangled Russian sourced oppo (which did not exist). Stupid to take the mtg. Rookie mistake. No crime.

Right. We're back to "so what, that's not illegal". Ethics don't matter.
Sure they matter. Trump paid a political price. He's still paying. We should know about Biden family business with Ukraine & China. Biden should be held accountable politically.

Problem here is that you don't apply this to your Deep State. Were laws broken? Great, indict. What's that you say, no one was indicted?
I have not called for indictments. I just want to know what happened. Who did what ?

Well-----"rookie mistake. No crime."

You flip out over GPS and Steele----but at the same time, you don't care that Kush & Trump met with a Russian spy? sent by GPS Riiiiiight. Of course you don't. And Fredo "wasn't' smart enough, FFS. What kind of idiot goes to the meeting personally? That's your idea of "Fredo seeing it for what it was"?

You'd do the same thing if your family or business were on the line & you were out of money to defend yourself.[/color]

No. I wouldn't. Want to know what I'd do? Hire a public defender. You're insisting that there's no evidence of his crime? Great. A layup that that a 1st year public defender could handle, no problem. "Show me the evidence of this lie. Oh you don't have any? Great. Move to dismiss".

My business would go on merrily, and I wouldn't spend a dime.
Nobody's paid to have a dossier prepared about you & your shady Bavarian connections & activities, ...yet.
I'll get Stefan Halper on that. One Oktoberfest, he saw you with a statuesque blonde who was actually a Stasi agent.

[a fan]

Don't initiate an investigation based upon Russian disinformation purchased by a political opponent.

It wasn't. You've been told this multiple, multiple times.

T
Flynn & Padop were ambushed & should not have been targeted or tricked. .

Tricked to lie to the FBI?

Whoo. Good one.

We should know about Biden family business with Ukraine & China. Biden should be held accountable politically.

He has. Everyone now knows about Hunter's BS no show job that was tied to Daddy. Damage done.

Nobody's paid to have a dossier prepared about you & your shady Bavarian connections & activities, ...yet.
I'll get Stefan Halper on that. One Oktoberfest, he saw you with a statuesque blonde who was actually a Stasi agent.

That's not Flynn with your dossier game. Moving the goalposts, are we?

Know how Flynn could've escaped this devious "trap"? He could have not lied, or not answered the questions. Yeah, I know, it's REALLY hard to do that.

And if they played the same game with me? Guess what? I'd either not lie...again, wow, that's a lot to ask.....or lawyer up, and say nothing.


I think Flynn should have been pardoned months ago. He's been through enough. But your Trump is too big of a POS to pardon a man who made a dumb mistake. Oh well. Vote Trump, right?

Edited to correct to "Flynn"

[CU88]

OS needs a vacation...

[MDlaxfan76]

OS needs a vacation...

Moscow?

[old salt]

OS needs a vacation...

Moscow?

...any recent family dispatches from China ?

[MDlaxfan76]

OS needs a vacation...

Moscow?

...any recent family dispatches from China ?

he's been in the States since February, but very much in touch with his colleagues there.

[old salt]

Willful blindness has its advantages, ...success depends on what you can unsee.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... nistration

[seacoaster]

Willful blindness has its advantages, ...success depends on what you can unsee.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... nistration

Turley may be the single most discredited person in Washington.